Get that to hit higher!


Advice


Alright, so in a two or three campaign sessions we are going to end up fighting an Anti-Paladin with a nerfed version of the Death Knight Template. We are fortunate: we know his tactics and his equipment. The issue is...his AC might be problematic.

This anti-Paladin has at least a +4 Natural Armor bonus, is size large and wearing Mithral Full Plate. He has reach, and has a great love of disarming creatures. In addition, he carries a longbow. After Racial Levels, we know he has 6 Anti-Paladin levels.

So, assuming he meets the maximum dexterity requirement for the Mithral Full-Plate, and the Full-Plate itself is enchanted at most to +3, this means his AC is likely to be 12+4+3+10 = 29.

As I do not enjoy wandering into melee as the Good-Aligned Inquisitor with the Anti-Paladin who disarms his foes and could smite me into non-existence with his Earthbreaker, I need ways to boost my to hit with longbows. Currently, that sits at a merry +9 before buffs (It is a +1 Longbow).

3.5 spells are allowed. Scrolls are randomly generated and may not be available.

Currently I have Heroism, Cat's Grace, Divine Favor and my Judgement to boost my to hit by 6. Are there any other ways to increase my to hit with my longbow?

Scarab Sages

Bane should give you a +2 additional Enhancement Bonus on top of the extra damage dice, assuming you know what to Bane. Not sure what level you are, so this is only if you're 5th or higher.

Aspect of the Falcon, if you can find a way to cast it, gives a +1 competence bonus on ranged attacks, and has the added benefit of increasing your threat range.

Alter Self to make yourself Small gives a +1 for size and a +2 size bonus to Dex.

Aid or Bless (morale bonuses) stack with Divine Favor (luck bonus) and Judgements (sacred bonus).

Silver Crusade

Wand or scrolls of True Strike gives you a near-guaranteed hit every other round, rather than a 25% chance every round at the +15 you already have.

Buy a bunch of tanglefoot bags; a large full-plate wearer likely has a terrible touch AC, and entangled reduces his AC by 2 as well as slowing him down and reducing his attack bonus. Combined with True Strike, you should be able to keep well out of melee range.

Worse comes to worse, keep pelting him with Acid Splash while you stay out of reach.

Silver Crusade

It would help if we knew your party make-up and what level you guys are. That notwithstanding, Ferious makes some good suggestions.


- Try climbing a tree or otherwise getting above him. Having high ground usually nets you a +1 circumstance bonus on attacks.

- If you can, avoid meeting him on his own terms. Try to engineer situations where he has to contend with difficult terrain or can't get at you. A 35% chance to hit is plenty good if he's sitting at the bottom of a pit with no way out.

- Alternatively, think about debuffs that lower his AC. Such as:

A creature who uses acrobatics to navigate difficulties like narrow ledges or moving through grease spells loses their DEX bonus to AC.

Assorted spells can lower AC. Bestow Curse can drop his DEX four points, for a -2 to AC. Or anything that induces the fatigued or exhausted conditions applies a similar penalty. As an Anti-Paladin his saves are likely to be pretty good, though so ...

- Consider buffing your party members. Do you have a neutral-aligned meatshield who might benefit more from a Heroism spell than you would?

- What non-standard things can you do? For example -- if you have a Folding Boat, what happens if you throw it at him and shout the command word that turns it into a full sized ship? Could you arrange to doctor his armor with itching powder? Could you use Create Water to render the area muddy, thereby inducing a penalty because of bad footing?


Don't forget your bane ability increases your weapons enhancement bonus by +2 more when it applies.

If you can get a bard, that will apply an addition +2 competence bonus via inspire courage.

Also, see if you can't get greater invisibility. Not only will that give you +2 to hit, but it will remove his dex bonus to AC for what would effectively be another +3 for you to hit him (ie: a 5 point bonus)

Also, if you can come up with a way to get him grappled or entangled, that'd help too (much like the invis does). Grappled would be especially nice, as it would prevent him from using his earthbreaker.


I don't think anyone else has said this yet. Invisible gives you a +2. Making him prone would give a -4 to AC for melee attacks. Blind and stunned also help hit him, but both pretty much will win the fight on most things if you can pull them off.


Good suggestions, keep them coming!

As a note, I am not a humanoid (I am an Aasimar). We have a Paladin (oh god, the smite-fight will be entertaining to watch) and a Wild Mage (Wizard with a focus on Chaos Magic). We will be level 7 when we fight him.

In addition, we recruited some old friends to help us in this fight. Another Wizard (Buffer primary), a Rogue, and a Magus.

Unfortunately, we are all good aligned.

Edit: Unfortunately, as a Death Knight he is an Undead Anti-Paladin.

Silver Crusade

Hopefully one of the wizards has haste available. That will give you an extra chance to hit him on each full attack and a +1 on every attack.

Just to point out, your Judgement of Justice will not stack with Heroism, so you'll be better off judging Destruction. Not to mention Destruction will give you a +3 damage bonus compared to Justice's +2 attack bonus.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Just to point out, your Judgement of Justice will not stack with Heroism

Umm... yes they do.

Judgements are sacred bonuses. Heroism is a morale bonus.


If you happen to know it, Prayer might be a good option. +1 luck bonus to all rolls by your allies, -1 to all enemies (with no save, but SR applies if he has it) for 7 rounds.

Searing Light might be a good option as well, since it would be a 7d6 ranged touch attack.

Any way that you can target his touch AC would help tremendously, as you'll bypass his armor.


Guidance if you know it. It's rubbish (+1) but it's competence so tends to stack with things and you can cast it all day. Get a 1st level cleric to help.

Slow will drop his AC by 1 and have other benefits, but he'll probably make his save so I wouldn't bother unless he has mooks too.

Dispel Magic to take out his AC buffs.

Grease to make him flat-footed or drop his shield. His Reflex save is probably his worst.

Scarab Sages

Hakka Tsadok wrote:
and a Magus.

Shocking grasp is a touch attack with an untyped +3 to-hit bonus.

Don't bother with spellstrike unless you also have the arcana that allows your to resolve all melee attacks at touch attacks.

Silver Crusade

EvilMinion wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Just to point out, your Judgement of Justice will not stack with Heroism

Umm... yes they do.

Judgements are sacred bonuses. Heroism is a morale bonus.

You know I misread that 5 times. In that case, he should judge Justice. That will give him +8 with Heroism, Cat's Grace, and Divine Favor.


Have the level 7 Wizard cast Greater Invisibility on you and/or the paladin. That gives you a +2 to hit and wipes out your foes dex AC bonus. That could be +5 to hit right there.

Spells of Prayer and Consecrate, both allow no saves and will drop the AP's damage output.

Scrolls of Stoneskin may also negate tons of damage.

A Wind Wall spell negates the AP's bow, while a low wall can give you +4 AC from cover if you are closer to it than the AP.

A hasted rogue that UMD's a pair of Flame Blade spells can rip open a tin can quite easily.

For that matter, if you can UMD Flame Blade (or get it via a Ring of Spell Storing), you can Destructive Judgment, Bane, Teamwork Precision Damage, and otherwise easily hit that AP via touch attacks. Your flame blade would be doing up to 1d8+3d6+6 damage or more per hit and nearly auto hitting...?

Don't forget, everyone can throw flasks of acid, fire, and cold. They are touch attacks.

Hide behind a wind wall and let the wizards blast the AP down via Magic Missiles until the AP comes to you.

Learn Searing Light as your 3rd level spell and hit easily with it.

The wizards can summon multiple Lantern Archons that pelt the AP into oblivion. Cast Prayer after they are out to boost their damage. Hite a level 5 bard while they are out and the GM will never let that happen again.


Remember, you can also lower his AC...

Tanglefoot bags, curses, Dex penalties, poisons, knocking the guy prone, throwing a net over him, etc, are all helpful tactics.

You can also target his lousy touch AC

Or make use of flanking, and aiding another, plus what you've already got.


Being Large means -1 to AC.

If you can use slow on him, it'll be another -1 to AC and he won't get iterative attacks.

bless is good if anyone in the party can cast it.

Sunder his armor. Burn up his AoO ability (ideally someone with high enough AC they can survive the attacks) and have someone untrained sunder his armor. If you can get it to 1/2 its normal hitpoints, it breaks and its AC bonus is halved. If you can get it to 0 hitpoints, you can optionally destroy it. Hardness will be an issue, but if you've got anyone who can dish out a lot of hitpoints in one attack, it's worth the attempt. Heck, try and pick up an adamantine weapon - even a dagger or mace - to bypass the hardness and just smash the armor.

true strike works with maneuvers. Like trip attempts, which makes him prone, a -4 penalty to his AC. When he stands up, you all get AoO before the penalty goes away.

Grand Lodge

Actually scroll of stone skin wouldn't work. They're all good, so smite would simply bypass it.


Have the Wizard cast Grease, Web, Create Pit, Fleshcurdle, Black Tentacles, etc. Anything that can suspend him or limit his movement is perfect. Also, if you can work spell dimensions in a unique way, you may be able to flank him. -2 to AC and they lose their dex. That's where summon monster comes in hand. :D

Scarab Sages

Forgot Heroism was morale. So it won't stack with Bless or Aid. Since it's only one enemy, at level 7 Wrath would actually give you a little bit higher bonus than Heroism, and it would add to your damage. It works like Divine Favor, but it's a morale bonus and only against one enemy, so it would be +3 vs Heroism's +2 to hit.

It'll be tough to time out all of those buffs, though, since Divine Favor and Wrath are only 1 minute duration. So maybe Heroism is the better way to go

Haste as was mentioned for sure if you've got a Wizard going with you. Best party buff.

Blessing of Fervor doesn't stack with Haste, but if none of your Wizards have Haste, it's an option for the party Cleric to cast. Either an extra attack, or a +2 bonus to attack, AC, etc.

Searing Light was a good suggestion if you have the spells slots. Hitting Touch AC is much easier, and 7D6 is probably close to what you'd do if you hit with two arrows (including a haste attack, and assuming you don't have Rapid Shot).

Litany of Entanglement is an option (give Entangled condition as a swift action), but it's a 3rd level spell, it's close range, and it gives a Will save.

Halt Undead also is an option. It's Medium range, so you don't have to move in close. At 7 rounds duration, it's a potential scenario winner. Still allows a Will save, though, and I believe just like Hold Person he could get a new save as a full-round action each round.

Named Bullet if you can get a scroll. Only good for one attack, but if you can round up one Holy Arrow or similarly damaging arrow, Named Bullet will let you hit Touch AC within 30 feet, makes any hit a crit threat, and gives extra damage on top of all that. At x3 crit, and with all the buff spells you're trying to have up, that's a lot of damage.

Scarab Sages

You have two wizards and know what to expect. 8/

Prep with true strike, PC wizard preps with fly.

Round 1
NPC wizard casts Spike Pit

If BBEG makes reflex save, bull rush with true strike

PC wizard moves over pit and casts Wall of Fire inside.

Round 2
PC wizard casts Wall of Stone, sealing pit


Hakka Tsadok wrote:

Good suggestions, keep them coming!

As a note, I am not a humanoid (I am an Aasimar). We have a Paladin (oh god, the smite-fight will be entertaining to watch) and a Wild Mage (Wizard with a focus on Chaos Magic). We will be level 7 when we fight him.

In addition, we recruited some old friends to help us in this fight. Another Wizard (Buffer primary), a Rogue, and a Magus.

Unfortunately, we are all good aligned.

Edit: Unfortunately, as a Death Knight he is an Undead Anti-Paladin.

Locking gauntlet for your paladin, and make the bad-guy come to you! Stand off and hammer him with missile weapons, and he'll have to take the offensive. He attacks, gets some hits in, paladin 5' steps and full-attacks.

The secret is going to be to make him fight on your terms.

Oh, and your buffer wizard can stock up on stat-boosting buffs as you will lack items that do this at your level, Bull's Strength/Eagle's Spledour on the paladin, Cat's Grace on your inquisitor, etc. to really crank up your chances.


3.5 spells are allowed? Just go to town with wraithstrike. His touch AC isn't anything special.


He's an anti paladin. Don't throw spells at him that require saving throws.


Just buff yourselves and hit him with dispel magics to debuff him.

Scarab Sages

Obscuring Mist negates reach.


Ferious Thune wrote:
Halt Undead also is an option. It's Medium range, so you don't have to move in close. At 7 rounds duration, it's a potential scenario winner. Still allows a Will save, though, and I believe just like Hold Person he could get a new save as a full-round action each round.

It would be wonderful, except that it's negated by the first attack. So it's fine if you need to take a breather, but little help in the fight unless you can CdG him. Not sure if you can CdG undead.

And he'd probably make his save anyway.


Mudfoot wrote:

It would be wonderful, except that it's negated by the first attack. So it's fine if you need to take a breather, but little help in the fight unless you can CdG him. Not sure if you can CdG undead.

And he'd probably make his save anyway.

"You can't deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits."

That is the only limiter. Most undead in PF are subject to criticals, and therefore you can CdG them.


Artanthos wrote:

You have two wizards and know what to expect. 8/

Prep with true strike, PC wizard preps with fly.

Round 1
NPC wizard casts Spike Pit

If BBEG makes reflex save, bull rush with true strike

PC wizard moves over pit and casts Wall of Fire inside.

Round 2
PC wizard casts Wall of Stone, sealing pit

True Strike is a personal spell according to the PRD one minute before writing this. So the wizard can't buff the fighter with it.

Silver Crusade

Tarantula wrote:
Mudfoot wrote:

It would be wonderful, except that it's negated by the first attack. So it's fine if you need to take a breather, but little help in the fight unless you can CdG him. Not sure if you can CdG undead.

And he'd probably make his save anyway.

"You can't deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits."

That is the only limiter. Most undead in PF are subject to criticals, and therefore you can CdG them.

But they are immune to anything that requires a Fort save, so no chance for an insta-kill.


Sober Caydenite wrote:
But they are immune to anything that requires a Fort save, so no chance for an insta-kill.

They're also immune to death effects (which I consider CdG to be). You still get the auto-crit though. Might as well make sure you do it with a scythe.

Scarab Sages

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Artanthos wrote:

You have two wizards and know what to expect. 8/

Prep with true strike, PC wizard preps with fly.

Round 1
NPC wizard casts Spike Pit

If BBEG makes reflex save, bull rush with true strike

PC wizard moves over pit and casts Wall of Fire inside.

Round 2
PC wizard casts Wall of Stone, sealing pit

True Strike is a personal spell according to the PRD one minute before writing this. So the wizard can't buff the fighter with it.

The OP is an inquisitor.


Hakka Tsadok wrote:
Currently I have Heroism, Cat's Grace, Divine Favor and my Judgement to boost my to hit by 6. Are there any other ways to increase my to hit with my longbow?

Greater Magic Weapon (+x enhancement bonus)

Aspect of the Falcon /Bracers of Falcon's Aim (+1 competence bonus)
Haste (+1 untyped bonus to hit, and an extra attack)
Reduce Person (+2 size bonus to DEX)

That's all I can think of to improve the attack roll on short notice; there are obviously feats you could take, but it doesn't sound like there would be time. You may still be able to increase your damage per hit, though:

Keen Edge on the arrows to double the crit threat range
Flame Arrow on the arrows to add +1d6 fire damage to each
Gravity Bow to make the arrow's base damage 2d6 instead of 1d8*

*or to keep the usual damage if you used Reduce Person

Coat the arrows with poison designed to reduce CON and/or hit points directly: black lotus extract, black adder venom, deathblade, natharit, sassone leaf residue, tears of death, wyvern poison

Have a witch standing by to cast Ill Omen from a wand every round; it has no saving throw and forces the target to roll twice and take the worse result on his next d20 roll (such as a save vs. poison)


I dont know if this was brought up but did you caculate that for him being large drops his Dex by 2 and gives him a -1 size bonus to AC. With this his AC might not be that high and

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Get that to hit higher! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.