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Scott...
Every generation has been backward compatible.
No, it hasn't. The SNES wasn't backwards compatible. The N64 wasn't backwards compatible. The Saturn wasn't backwards compatible. The Gamecube wasn't backwards compatible.
Hell, the entire third, fourth, and fifth generations of consoles lacked backwards compatibility of any kind whatsoever. I doubt the first and second had it either. It wasn't until the sixth generation (we're in the seventh right now) that backwards compatibility even played a role. It's only been a part of the console wars landscape for two generations!
When you have to go back to Game Cube to cite a time when a feature didn't exist...
The game consoles should be getting better, not worse. This is what you keep missing in this and other discussions.
When a company believes they can put out a product for the next generation with inferior features, they are doing the opposite of what made them a successful company.
People give money to companies that produce products that meet expectations. And they "upgrade" to next generation products that increase, not decrease, these expectations.
You consistently way, way, over-value branding. Apparently so does X-Box. When your buisness model switches from impressing your customer base to milking your customer base...
Hell, even you are admitting after E3 that XBox is in trouble...
And there's that rudeness yet again.
I don't think he was being rude. I think he was making a joke by paraphrasing Microsoft's own statement on the subject.
So I'm stationed with the Army in Korea--an XB1 I buy from Amazon or my local military exchange won't play the games bought alongside it?Don't worry, you can play when you get home. Until then, buy a 360.And there's that rudeness yet again.
Rynjin was repeating the /exact line/ that a Microsoft exec took when asked about the subject. If you feel that is rude, that sentiment seems more relevant to MS as a company than Rynjin, who is hardly defending their policies here.
So I'm stationed with the Army in Korea--an XB1 I buy from Amazon or my local military exchange won't play the games bought alongside it?
Don't worry, you can play when you get home.
Until then, buy a 360.
And there's that rudeness yet again.
Nonetheless, I've jumped ship and left Xbox One behind.
He quoted MS support twitter feeds.
I'll see you on the PS4.
I wonder who it was at microsoft that thought that driving all there core xbox customers away is a good business move.
Microsoft have gone insane. None of their business or marketing plans from the last few years make a single iota of sense, not for X-Box, their tablets, their phones or Windows 8. I am at a loss at what the hell is going on over there.
On the other hand, Sony are at least giving a good impression that they've learned from their mistakes.
When you have to go back to Game Cube to cite a time when a feature didn't exist...
Backwards-compatibility is a feature that's only been haphazardly present in consoles. It adds to the expense of the consoles quite a lot, and has been blamed for the PS3's very high launch price. Them including backwards compatibility for the PS4 would have lost them the very price advantage over XB1 that is being highly praised.
Gaikai is a way of getting around it, if imperfectly, and there's also the patented 'hold onto your old console' technique. This may be more attractive this time around due to the console's Blu-Ray player, meaning it be can be moved into a bedroom TV role as well (one of my acquaintences has successfully made this argument to his better half, whereas without it he'd have been likely having to sell or junk the thing).
And there's that rudeness yet again.I don't think he was being rude. I think he was making a joke by paraphrasing Microsoft's own statement on the subject.
Yeah... this was an exact quote from microsoft, no paraphrasing at all.
So I'm stationed with the Army in Korea--an XB1 I buy from Amazon or my local military exchange won't play the games bought alongside it?
Don't worry, you can play when you get home.
Until then, buy a 360.
And there's that rudeness yet again.
Nonetheless, I've jumped ship and left Xbox One behind.
Here's a video clip for reference.
The guy speaking is the MS exec who is in charge of the Xbox.
Microsoft has truly lost its way.
When you have to go back to Game Cube to cite a time when a feature didn't exist...
Look, arguing with you over backwards compatibility is silly. You don't really know enough about backwards compatibility to be saying the things that you're saying. All it would take is you reading that article. Why haven't you done it?
The game consoles should be getting better, not worse. This is what you keep missing in this and other discussions.
They are. There are other metrics of "better" or "worse" than whether a console has backwards compatibility. Much, much more important metrics. Backwards compatibility is really a side feature. It doesn't make or break a console (as both manufacturers agree). You seem kind of fixated on this one feature.
When a company believes they can put out a product for the next generation with inferior features, they are doing the opposite of what made them a successful company.
People give money to companies that produce products that meet expectations. And they "upgrade" to next generation products that increase, not decrease, these expectations.
Yeah, and usually those increases come in the form of adding power and added capabilities. Backwards compatibility is a capability, but it's hardly the only one, or the most important. Robust interconnectivity is going to be the defining new feature of this generation. Sony and Microsoft seem to be in agreement on this.
He was talking about all the horrible stuff connected to the XBone. Like DRM and other idiocies.
I got the impression that he was talking about backwards compatibility (since that's how he started his post), and was implying that to ship a console without backwards compatibility was to ship an inferior console.
Which is silly.
BC:
ALL PS3's play PS1. I got the new slim kind and was just enjoying some Evil Zone on it last week. Thinking of re-playing Suikoden I and II on it soon, too.
Also, my Wii plays Gamecube games just fine. Only the very late model Wii units don't play GC games. Basically when they got price cut to $99 or whatever.
Not all consoles have had backwards compatibility. But more have had it than not since the PS2-GC-Xbox era.
Backwards compatibility isn't much of a factor (to me). YMMV. XBox One loses out to the PS4 for plenty of other reasons:
* More expensive
* Ugly
* Less powerful
* Ugly
* Less customer friendly
* Ugly
Did I mention ugly? ;-)
Which would be important if you stared at the console instead of the TV screen...
TBQH I think the one place where the XBone wins is appearance.
Plain Black Box > Weird Parallelogram Thingy IMO.
15 minute conversation and I convince my family to go with a PS4 instead of an Xbone.
I don't live with them anymore, but I still don't want them abused by MS.
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TBQH I think the one place where the XBone wins is appearance.
Plain Black Box > Weird Parallelogram Thingy IMO.
Plain Black Box > Weird Parallelogram Thingy > Plain Black Box with large camera/mic plugged in at all times IMO
Personally, I think they both LOOK sexy. One of them has a poop personality though.
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Going tomorrow to pre-order the PS4. :)
Really the killer for me is the DRM crap. I turn to my x-box when my net goes out for entertainment. The idea that it turns into a brick without internet is infuriating enough that I'd never buy one, even without lovely features like....
-Monthly fee for internet related services
-No sharing of games
-Forced install on hard drive of all games
-Higher price
-Manditory connect
Looks like it's back to Playstation for me. Either that or I'll just skip this generation entirely and play on my computer.
I have complete confidence in the ability of Sony to screw up every bit as bad as Microsoft before release.
5+ months until release and they have scored their coup at E3, time for the corporate types, at Sony and elsewhere, to weigh in. And for changes to occur.
MS is what MS is, just don't expect Sony, of all people, to be better.
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time for the corporate types, at Sony and elsewhere, to weigh in. And for changes to occur.
They have weighed in, did you see the video of the Sony CEO demonstrating their game sharing process?
If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if MS dials back their restrictive policies to match Sony.But everything from MS points to them not viewing themselves as having screwed up, this is their purposeful plan.
There is simply no reason for Sony to change things to the worse at this point, they already have touted their ability to achieve efficiencies of scale (reduce costs of the platform ongoing), and post-E3 they just upped their sales forecasts which make all their numbers look even better, why would they suddenly need to claw back a few more game sales franchise fees? They were structurally favored to beat XBone this gen just by going on sale at the same time, and everything is just pointing up from there. Sony already did announce that online multiplayer will now require PS+ subscription, but nobody blinked an eye, and PS+ did shape up to be a pretty good deal on PS3.
Aesthetics of my living room are quite important. A featureless black block of plastic with an antenna sort of thing perched on top of it is not my idea of visually pleasing appearance.
Out of curiosity, how many of the electronics boxes in your living room aren't "featureless black blocks of plastic"? Because most living rooms I'm familiar with have, like, three of those.
BC:
ALL PS3's play PS1.
Only some play PS2 games. This is because PlayStation 2 emulation cannot be done via software on the PS3 (too process expensive), so the PS3 relies on a Graphics Synthesizer GPU to handle it. That GPU was removed in later models for the sake of space/power consumption/cost/whatever. Newer models can emulate PS1 games (which can be done via software emulation), but not PS2 games.
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Aesthetics of my living room are quite important. A featureless black block of plastic with an antenna sort of thing perched on top of it is not my idea of visually pleasing appearance.Out of curiosity, how many of the electronics boxes in your living room aren't "featureless black blocks of plastic"? Because most living rooms I'm familiar with have, like, three of those.
You'd be surprised. My music setup is all in wood (it's from the 80s) and my tv is a big, featureless block of grey plastic. The only black thing i have is the DVD player, an it at least has the courtesy to have smooth sides.
Was it at least a PC using Windows? Or have Microsoft lost all faith in there own products and started using Linux or something?
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...that there's a good reason why I still use XP?
You have to waive rights to pre-order the one. I...what? You cannot take out a class action suit to pre-order? I wonder how many pre-orders will now get cancelled.
The PS4 seems to be taking the lead on pre-orders, now. Obviously we don't know the wider picture, but Microsoft was firmly and comfortably in the lead before E3.
Looks like all that crap is hurting sales after all.
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Get banned from Xbox Live and lose access to all your Xbone games.
I don't think Microsoft want any customers anymore.
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Was it at least a PC using Windows? Or have Microsoft lost all faith in there own products and started using Linux or something?
Most newer games won't run on linux.
@Uzzu...obviously, or they want to drive gamers away from consoles and onto PCs. Because it's a pain to develop games for three/four platforms.
...that there's a good reason why I still use XP?
If you're running a PC for web browsing, editing documents or running older games, XP is still a very fine operating system.
For running modern games (quite a few of which won't even work with it) it's a bit less appopriate. I liked XP a great deal, but Windows 7 is superior on every front. Windows 8...not so much.
Most newer games won't run on linux.
Not until the Linux community gets around to getting drivers working for them, but that often takes a while.
Steambox will likely see a big increase in the number of games that work on Linux.
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When you have to go back to Game Cube to cite a time when a feature didn't exist...Look, arguing with you over backwards compatibility is silly.
It is hard to make things people want to buy. If you expect a customer to pay 500 dollars, you need to provide value beyond what I already can buy, for less.
Backward compatibility provides a value to the product in the form of reducing the entry costs. If my current XBox 360 dies, and the XBox One were backward compatible, it would be a viable replacement product at only a 200 dollar price difference (since the XBox 360 with kinect is going for 300).
So as a consumer I might decide to give the extra 200 to upgrade.
What I won't do is pay 300 for my current and then 500 for the next generation that isn't compatible.
Particularly when my competition has hit a price point only 50 dollars more than my previous generation game.
Because something is hard doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. And before you say it is going to up the price point, they made a decision for a non-optional always on Kinect when they were picking price points as well...
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He was talking about all the horrible stuff connected to the XBone. Like DRM and other idiocies.I got the impression that he was talking about backwards compatibility (since that's how he started his post), and was implying that to ship a console without backwards compatibility was to ship an inferior console.
Which is silly.
If you have two consoles, and one has a feature that customers want and one doesn't, the one that doesn't is, by definition, inferior.
Unless english is "silly".
Silly has become your go to word lately, kind of like "Old Sport" and Gatsby.
Looks like a classic case of bait and switch.
Side Note- I would prefer Nvidia over ATI in consoles. ATI always had shoddy drivers when I used their cards. Lots of visual anomalies, tearing, etc.
Gotta watch this. Its 13 min, but you can skip to about 3 minutes in.
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Two other points about the lack of backwards compatibility. I've got a huge library of Xbox 360 games, both physical discs and digital XBLA titles. With the Xbone being unable to play those, I don't lose anything by choosing to buy the PS4. I'd be starting fresh either way.
Secondly, this sort of thing is going to lead to us losing access to certain games, perhaps not now or in the next few years, but in fifty years. Many older TV shows were discarded and lost due to short sighted archival practices (or more precisely, the lack of them), the most famous being old Doctor Who episodes. This means we've lost parts of our collective cultural history. This may not be an issue right now, but when the next generation of consoles come along without backwards compatibility, and the Xbone authentication servers get switched off, we're going to be at real risk of losing a lot of games.. a lot of our collective cultural history.
Only some play PS2 games. This is because PlayStation 2 emulation cannot be done via software on the PS3 (too process expensive), so the PS3 relies on a Graphics Synthesizer GPU to handle it. That GPU was removed in later models for the sake of space/power consumption/cost/whatever. Newer models can emulate PS1 games (which can be done via software emulation), but not PS2 games.BC:
ALL PS3's play PS1.
Yes, I realize that. I think EVERYONE realizes that. Which is why I didn't mention PS2 emulation in my post at all.
It seemed like people did not realize even the new PS3's play PS1 games, so I wanted to inform them. I actually only learned of this like 6 months ago, myself. Likewise with the Wii playing GC games, one poster specifically said it does not, which is blatant lies.
My post added to the discussion. What was the point of yours? "This thing you didn't mention because it's obviously not there isn't there, so...take that!" ?
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Well, the good thing is that this fiasco is getting me to look more at other systems....something I haven't done since the first Xbox. I am not really into the Playstation's games so I am looking at alternatives like the Ouya. I needs my Elder Scrolls but I can just get it on PC instead I suppose when the next one comes out.
What kinds of games do you like? Wii U is supposedly trying to win back the adult gamers and I think it will be my first new console I get, either this year or next.
It has:
- Bayonetta 2
- "X", a game that looks like Xenoblade (epic RPG w/ tons of exploration) w/ mecha...totally freaking sold!
- A new Smash Bros at some point
- New HD Wind Waker. Definitely has faster sailing; hinted that they'd put in the end dungeons that got scrapped for that stupid treasure hunt. Seeing as those were the only 2 flaws in an otherwise perfect game... Pretty nice.
- Will eventually get a new Zelda; not sure after Skyward Sword if that is a good thing.
- Wii had Samurai Warriors 3, surprisingly. Which means good odds that Wii U will have the inevitable Samurai Warriors 4.
Just a list of the games I'm looking forward to / hoping to see. Sure would be nice if Wii U got a port of the new "sequel" to Zelda: A Link to the Past that's coming out on 3DS, too...
Looks like a classic case of bait and switch.
Priceless.
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Get banned from Xbox Live and lose access to all your Xbone games.
I don't think Microsoft want any customers anymore.
I like that the guy's response when asked about accounts that get hacked/banned is the brilliant "try not to get hacked".
Secondly, this sort of thing is going to lead to us losing access to certain games, perhaps not now or in the next few years, but in fifty years. Many older TV shows were discarded and lost due to short sighted archival practices (or more precisely, the lack of them), the most famous being old Doctor Who episodes. This means we've lost parts of our collective cultural history. This may not be an issue right now, but when the next generation of consoles come along without backwards compatibility, and the Xbone authentication servers get switched off, we're going to be at real risk of losing a lot of games.. a lot of our collective cultural history.
It is a risk, but it's one people are well aware of. There are several efforts to ensure that games are not lost to the ether, and because of the recent hoo-har when companies tried to update games (like BALDUR'S GATE) only to find the original assets had been lost limiting what they could do, there's also likely to be much more achiving of materials going forwards.
- "X", a game that looks like Xenoblade (epic RPG w/ tons of exploration) w/ mecha...totally freaking sold!
More Xeno- games is always a good thing =D Loved me some Xenogears and Xenoblade has been on my to-get list for some time. Never got around to the Xenosaga games, for good or ill.
- A new Smash Bros at some point
- New HD Wind Waker. Definitely has faster sailing; hinted that they'd put in the end dungeons that got scrapped for that stupid treasure hunt. Seeing as those were the only 2 flaws in an otherwise perfect game... Pretty nice.
- Will eventually get a new Zelda; not sure after Skyward Sword if that is a good thing.
These are admittedly icing on the cake though =)
Plus I'll be honest. When - not if - there's a new Mario game, I'm going to play it, more likely than not.
I like that the guy's response when asked about accounts that get hacked/banned is the brilliant "try not to get hacked".Get banned from Xbox Live and lose access to all your Xbone games.
I don't think Microsoft want any customers anymore.
In more commonplace terms, "Sucks to be you."
On the backwards compatability thing, why not just create a model with it and offer that at a higher price, while offering the model without it at a lower price?
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On the backwards compatability thing, why not just create a model with it and offer that at a higher price, while offering the model without it at a lower price?
Because that would make sense.
I'd be willing to pay a higher price for a PS4 that played PS1, PS2, and PS3 discs (and hopefully PS3 PSN games as well).