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I have played a life oracle.
He is a PFS character. He is a Dhampire ( I got the beginner box bash chronicle) He is a life oracle. He has the haunted Curse. He serves Pharasma. my role playing fluff is that he is a "ghost whisperer" helping ghosts solve their problems so they can leave this world and go onto the boneyard and to their rest. The clergy of pharasma are prejudiced against him because of what he is, and they are Jealous of him because Pharasma chose to give him divine spells.
I have had allot of fun playing this character.
I find since my character few spells to choose from, I pick basic bread and butter spells like Bless protection from evil....stuff like that. Everyone is happy with a bless spell. Everyone is happy with a positive channel energy.....
I hope this helps
Some of the best cleric/oracle spells are language-dependent. I certainly wouldn't want to leave out command as a first level spell known; it's just too useful, especially for my lame oracle (on the path to Rage Prophet) who can't always get into combat immediately. Being able to point at an opponent and say "down, boy!" to have them drop to the ground for a round is pretty sick, especially if allies can surround and destroy while I head to another bad-guy.
Summary: I don't like Deaf or Tongues for an oracle. If you are willing to give up those language-dependent spells, though, they can be pretty sweet.
One problem with tongues as a curse is that many good cleric spells are language-dependent, which Tongues rather messes up.
Eh, I don't think tongues is to bad. Depending on the sort of oracle (a blastery Fire Oracle, for instance) such language-dependant spells might never be cast, and at higher levels when you get an additional outsider language, chances are SOMEBODY will have learned your tongues languages.
Murderous command can be AWESOME. I only prefer command because of its usefulness in such a wide variety of situations (provided my opponents speak/understand a language I speak...).
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Hmmm do you lose anything by going Deaf and Tongues as a dual curse combo, advancing the Deaf curse? You probably weren't doing that much verbal communication in combat anyway unless you were reading lips. I guess Tongues would mess up lip reading, but I'm not sure.
For normal communication, Deaf does not hinder talking, only listening.
Yeah, tongues is bad for a casting-focused oracle, too many good language-dependent spells. Less of an issue for a melee buffer type oracle.
Deaf doesn't have to kill roleplaying, I don't think... Getting someone in the group with telepathy (my current character's improved familiar has it, for example), using sign language, getting ghost sound as an orison via two-world magic (if your DM tries to make your own speech hard to understand due to the curse, though I don't think that happens by RAW), all help.
Haunted is painful because yes, you will occasionally want to pull out a wand, a rod, a scroll, or whatever. Also, while probably intended to be fine, I notice the FAQ says nothing about drawing any focus a spell might require. Could cause problems with a strict DM or PFS. Then again, you just need to touch foci, so you could probably have them all out at all times on a necklace or something.
For the haunted curse a familiar can once again be helpful as a wand and rod caddy. Of course it is kind of a big feat investment, but it can have other benefits.
For the haunted curse a familiar can once again be helpful as a wand and rod caddy. Of course it is kind of a big feat investment, but it can have other benefits.
Yes, fine. I don't mind Haunted curse itself. What I took issue with is choosing it as the non-advancing one for dual-cursed.
If you do so, you introduce all of those headaches...just to add mage hand and ghost sound to your known orisons.
There is no sane reason to ever do that. Hell, you could use two-world magic trait to get one of them on your list anyway.
For the haunted curse a familiar can once again be helpful as a wand and rod caddy. Of course it is kind of a big feat investment, but it can have other benefits.
So is the new meta for haunted oracles training animals to fetch things out of their bag for them?
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Well, as a GM if i saw a player having his character's trained animals retrieving his characters haunted cursed oracle's wands for him to try and get around the haunted curs, well now that would be interesting. I'm sure the mischievous spirits would declare open season on said trained animal.....a trained animal isn't getting around a divine curse.
Can someone explain how the oracle is supposed to match up to the cleric?
Oracles have a large number of class features, all of which let you choose, giving a wide variety, clerics almost don't have any. They both have access to the same spells, and the only big difference beyond that is that one is prepared and the other is spontaneous.
I find some of the curses help more than hurt. Legalistic and deaf is awesome in the right build.
I think the most powerful thing is misfortune. As an immeidate action you can make one creature with 30' reroll a d20. It can be all enemies whatever. That is awesome. Also yes most of the revelations suck. But a few of them are easy to combo and create something very powerful.
Every mystery has a few elite revelations at low level and a few more as they get leveled that are awesome too.
Plus spontaneous casting makes them worthwhile compared to prepared, more skills, and no god to follow.
Honestly though the revelations are what makes them awesome. They are great for dipping to get their revelation to make your current class more powerful.
Finlander, did you realize that misfortune can be used on allies, too? Every buddy that you are with gets a reroll once per day as you see fit. That, by the way, is SICK!
So every time the GM announces a crit, "reroll," you say. When the wizard flubs that important concentration check, "reroll." Once a day for any given creature. SICK!
They are not useless but how does a human get a 19 CHA at 1st level?
Point buy plus floating stat bonus. Or roll plus floating stat bonus.
Floating stat bonus is the answer.
My gnome colorsprayer at 8th level can ding someone with a 25 dc color spray with a rod of presistence that he can also misfortune. So they have to make that will save 3 times. then due to a heavens oracle revaltion their level is effectively 9 levels lower for the effects of colorspray.
Humans can get 20 cha at first level. My bones oracle has 18 base and the floating 2 to cha.
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Ouch to Heavens (Dual Cursed). "Save against MY color spray? How 'bout you roll that one again?"
How are you casting Color Spray as a Dual Cursed Oracle? The archetype replaces your first 3 Mystery spells and Color Spray isn't on the Oracle spell list, so you can't just pick it.
How are you casting Color Spray as a Dual Cursed Oracle? The archetype replaces your first 3 Mystery spells and Color Spray isn't on the Oracle spell list, so you can't just pick it.
If I had to guess they went sylvan sorcerer or something similar to get color spray and spam it while running around on a riding animal of some sort and benefiting from extra revelation if they want more heavens oracle goodies while negating the loss with the Lame curse and Legalistic curses. Its not an uncommon build. You can also still add it with samsaran's second life or a similar trait/racial/feat.
I didn't consider a dip; I assumed straight Oracle, but yeah Oracle 1 then all Sorc would be a great way to do it. He specified Gnome so Samsaran isn't in play, but you say there is a similar "something" to that? Do you happen to remember specifics, as I find that interesting for future use.
Can someone explain how the oracle is supposed to match up to the cleric?Oracles have a large number of class features, all of which let you choose, giving a wide variety, clerics almost don't have any. They both have access to the same spells, and the only big difference beyond that is that one is prepared and the other is spontaneous.
Clerics get two domains, many of which have fairly good powers. An Oracle can get either a larger quantity of decent revelations or a few that are better than what a cleric can get, maybe. Does that make up for all the benefits of being a cleric instead of an oracle, though?
Like I said, if you can find a unique trick like Heavens mystery with color spray, or paragon surge with Eldritch Heritage (Arcane), oracle can stand out. I just don't see it otherwise, though...
Misfortune is nice for using on allies. For using on enemies, cleric can eventually do that just fine. That's because the Divine Interference feat exists. Just buy a ton of cheap 1st level pearls of power to keep using it on every enemy you encounter once each.
I don't see how the oracle can possibly compare to the cleric. In terms of spellcasting, the cleric is obviously superior and the oracle's curses are very badly balanced, with quite a few being huge drawbacks for a melee spellcaster. And while the oracle specific class abilities like mysteries/revelations are "cool", most are junk.
I don't see how haunted is a big drawback either, unless your DM LOVES trying to disarm you.
Haunted's biggest drawback is that it makes you take longer to draw goods. However, the jury is out on whether or not the Quick Draw feat can override that limitation.
The oracle compares to the cleric in the same way that the witch compares to the wizard; the oracle has access to many powerful abilities that augment his or her spellcasting in ways the cleric simply cannot imitate; whether this is passive abilities that allow the oracle to take on a specific role more effectively than a cleric or a powerful activated ability that is often better than a spell slot.
As an example, any good-aligned oracle of life is going to be infinitely more potent at healing than a cleric; they get channel energy, they add their full oracle level to all healing spells (no cap), they get special healing abilities like energy body, healing doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity for them, and they get nearly every healing spell in the game as a bonus spell known. The downside is that the oracle of life is going to have a limited number of spells know that aren't healing-focused.
And a cleric can take Restoration domain to heal a bunch of status effects and also empower all their healing spells.
Domains can give some good powers, but you also have to pick the Domain as a whole (barring using Subdomains to trade off the really awful abilities for something else). The Oracle's modular design means that joke abilities aren't bundled with the abilities you really want. Domains are also RAW tied to your deity, so your combinations are also pretty restricted.
Divine Interference is a great feat, but it can only be used on enemy attack rolls. That's a rather large step backwards compared to Misfortune. Misfortune is also available at level 1 as opposed to CL 10 which means that unless your game starts near that, you'll have a lot more mileage out of Misfortune.
I was interested in this thread because we just started a Second Darkness campaign, and I finally get to play a caster (I am "the guy who doesn't mind playing the tank", so I'm *always* the frontline fighting class because no one else wants to do it.) I chose a life oracle, and after reading the thread, I was a bit worried.
To be blunt, I had a blast, and I absolutely saved my party's bacon. My entire tactics were, "Stand in the back and spam channel positive energy as my friends get hurt, or use CLW if I'm close enough."
It definitely depends on your play style, though. My oracle is an aasimar who's spent her entire life on the Celestial plane, and believes that as long as she never attacks, she won't be attacked. So my combat was, "I delay. I delay. I delay. I tell the barbarian to take a 5' step in that direction so I can step in and then delay. I move in and channel, excluding all the bad guys (Selective Channel at 1st level)."
I never did a single hit point of damage. I don't even carry a weapon. But it was a nasty fight, and I kept all my party members alive. Yes, a cleric would have had about as much healing, but I really liked the versatility of being able to cast *any* of my spells, instead of, "OK, which prepared spell do I drop to cast another CLW?"
So one man's take: As long as you're not looking to do damage, oracles are a lot of fun. But I play with a group where we usually have one buffer/healer/battlefield control specialist who never takes a swing (usually a bard), so everyone's used to one of us playing, "I stand in the back and never hurt anyone."
EDIT: We're also a very RP-heavy group, so the infinite orisons was HUGE -- trying to rebuild a temple of Sarenrae and being able to cast unlimited "Purify Food & Water" and "Create Water" spells made for a VERY satisfying RP experience. So yeah, I'm not exactly a scary threat to my enemies, but I made my friends and allies very happy both in and out of combat.
Oracles usually hyperspecialize in one divine facet above and beyond what a cleric would.
while not capable of all the corner case spells a cleric is
an oracle takes a specific clerical specialization and cranks it up to 11 at the cost of losing access to multiple options they would normally have.
Battle/Metal Oracle =Pseudomartial
Life Oracle = Medic
Flames Oracle = Blaster
Heavens Oracle = Save or Die user
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Haunted's biggest drawback is that it makes you take longer to draw goods. However, the jury is out on whether or not the Quick Draw feat can override that limitation.
The jury got back in a couple of weeks ago and Haunted curse has no effect on drawing weapons unless they where stored in your backpack or something...
Oracle: Does the haunted curse affect how long it takes to draw a weapon?
No. The curse affects the "retrieve a stored item" action. If you are using the "draw a weapon" action (such as to draw a dagger from a belt sheath), that is a different kind of action and the haunted curse does not affect it.
If you were attempting to retrieve a dagger from your backpack, that would count as a "retrieve a stored item" action and the curse would interfere.—Pathfinder Design Team, 04/05/13
Can someone explain how the oracle is supposed to match up to the cleric?Oracles have a large number of class features, all of which let you choose, giving a wide variety, clerics almost don't have any. They both have access to the same spells, and the only big difference beyond that is that one is prepared and the other is spontaneous.
Compare the cleric to the life oracle.
Take channel as your first level relevation, now you have the same channeling and can ignore that from now on. The oracle gets more skillpoints/level but doesn't get the deitie's favored weapon. Depends on the role you want to play what is better but I callit even.Spellcasting: One has access to every cleric spell but few spells per day and has to prepare them ahead of time, the other is a spontanous caster with limited spells known but many spells per day. Some like the one better, some the other. But it is supposed to be even.
What remains are two domains vs the Oracle's bonus spells known + latter revelations + curse.
Most domains give an ability at first level +1 at 4th, 6th ot 8th level. So at first level the cleric is somewhat ahead because he gets 2 domains powers while the oracle used his 1st revelation to balance out the cleric's channel. But for the rest of his advancement the cleric only ever gets 2 additional domain powers while the oracle gets 5 revelations + a final revelation.
So in the end it is 4 domain powers vs 5 revelations + final revelation. (Not counting the one revelation to get channel for easier comparison).
DL;DR
If you don't like how spontaneous casters work they will always seem weaker. But I (and most others I know) think the oracle is actually the better cleric with more powers.
Technically the Cleric can use Channel 2 more times per day (3 + Cha Mod, versus the 1 + Cha mod of oracle) but I digress: Oracle is a good class. I don't think it's strictly better but it's certain more flexible when it comes to non-spell abilities, while the Cleric is more flexible with spells.
Oracle is probably my second favorite class next to Witch. Oracle is the only way to make a true "elementalist" character that engages in physical combat, as opposed to the wizard who just does spells.
Technically the Cleric can use Channel 2 more times per day (3 + Cha Mod, versus the 1 + Cha mod of oracle)
I guess they did that because Cha ist the caster stat for oracles and thus higher than a cleric's most of the time.
In other words: Most oracles will be able to channel as often as most clerics.
I really hate when they do crap like that. Obviously a class will be better suited to some things than others, and you should if anything reward them for playing to their strength, not nerf them to try and keep it "in line with the others."
Example of the former: Bards getting a bunch of enchantment spells at reduced level
Example of the latter: Qingong Monk getting a 3rd level spell that uses unarmed for its damage roll at level SIXTEEN or above for iirc 3 ki points; gods forbid the monk guy is at all good at something based on unarmed, gotta keep him fair n' square with the wizard!
Oracles inexplicably getting 1 + cha mod instead of 3 + cha just because they're charisma casters is likewise BS. You don't see PF stripping clerics of their good base will save because "it's unfair to the oracle since you're a wis-based caster already."
IMO, an Oracle with the LIFE mystery should rightfully have more claim to the schtick than a cleric, who has much much MUCH more versatility in his spells prepared than oracle has in his spells known and gets two domain choices, neither of which likely affect channel energy at all, versus the one mystery an Oracle is tied to.
I agree with you on rogue, though.
I'd say they suffer from limited spell list more than sorcerer. Sorc/Wiz list is chock full of very powerful, very versatile, spammable spells.
Cleric/Oracle list is largely filled with situationally important spells you want to be able to access when they're needed (or within 24 hours), but really have no use for in regular day-to-day adventuring.
Oracles are far from useless. As spontaneous spellcasters, however, you ultimately need to build them to specialize a fair bit more than your average cleric.
If you're going blasty (Time mystery is REALLY good at doing that), I recommend grabbing the Blackened Curse (Blood of Angels) as your primary curse for Dual-Cursed. As you level up, it gives you a nice medley of fire-based damage spells. The downside to this curse is that it gives you a big penalty on weapon attack rolls. Blackened/Haunted with the Time Mystery is one of my favorite combinations because you end up with a bunch of great spells, plus the awesome fortune / misfortune revelations. If you want to go full blasty, Blackened / Mystery of Fire is a better choice. Just make sure to pick up Energy Admixture as a feat.
Mystery of Fire also gives you natural flight from level 7 onwards, which means that Flyby Attack is an option as a feat. Flying often means you avoid the majority of the dangers and can toss spells at will, and Flyby Attack means that touch spells / wands (say, emergency heals) are no longer a case of getting into the danger zone (for long). Given how deadly Tumble is in Pathfinder, this is a very good thing.
Compare the cleric to the life oracle.You may have missed a couple things.
The cleric has 2 good saves vs. the oracle having only one.
The cleric uses thier spellcasting stat to boost will saves.
I really missed those. Or at least the first. I don't see the second one as so powerful but perhaps that'S just me.
Personally, I think the oracle might be one of my favorite classes.
Pros
- Spontaneous caster (I would prefer a stat other than cha, but that is a minor quibble) but more spells known than a sorc
- Primary caster so plenty of nova power when needed
- Less squishy than the wizard or sorc
- The various mysteries give a wide spread on build / style / capabilites
- Not necessarily tied to a diety
Cons
- Do not have the breadth of spells and versatility of the cleric (though depending upon your group and GM that can be completely useless)
- Divine spells are usually a bit less powerful than their arcane counter parts (but there are still more than enough really good ones avail)
- Unless you get a good one from your mystery, the 1st level spells are really lack luster - there are some decent 2nd level ones and after that, lots of them that I really like
I will agree that primary caster builds are usually kinda rough for levels 1-3. Levels 4-5 you are starting to get good. Level 6+ you should be starting to shine when your build applies to the situation.
Yeah, your tongues curse is messing up the most useful non-buff spells that low level oracles get: command and murderous command. Those are fun spells, but they are language dependent.
I've seen numerous people in PFS that are very happy with the following types of oracles:
Battle
Life
Metal
Heavens
Time is a good mystery. Dual cursed in nice. I have a dual cursed battle oracle I love. However, I think your curses weren't the best choices for a caster oracle. Haunted screws you out of using wands, which sucks for a caster. For example, I started using a MM wand in lieu of a ranged weapon around level 5 or so on my battle oracle. It is a lot more effective than pew pewing with a crossbow and a poor to hit. Tongues screws you out of language based spells and those are some nice ones in the cleric's offensive list. Even summoning spells require language to issue the commands.
I also think your spell choices weren't the best either. Murderous command and bless are the two biggies at level 1. Bless gives +1 to hit at a time when the rogue is at +4 to hit and the fighter is at +5 or so. That gives a big boost to damage, as it's 20-25% greater accuracy for the whole party. Summons are good around level 3 or so, but before that they suck.
For curses, for a caster oracle, I would recommend legalistic and blackened.
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I consider the oracle a step behind the cleric, power-wise, but since I consider most other classes to also be a bit less powerful than the cleric, I feel no great craving to make the oracle "as good as" the cleric. And I do enjoy the different approaches to divine power - not so much the spontaneous-vs.-prepared approach as the distinction between organized temples of faithful clergy and wilderness-wandering miracle-workers.
the truth of the oracle is that it can fill any role BETTER then a cleric, but a cleric can do all of them at the same time.
and examples of what i mean is:
a metal oracle is a better choice for a melee fighter, then a cleric would be.
a life oracle is better, especially if its an Assimar, then a cleric at healing.
a heavens oracle is better at controlling the battlefield then a cleric
a juju oracle is better then a cleric at reanimations
BUT a cleric can do all of these things well enough with the same character, while the oracle is stuck in that one role they excel at while being mediocre at the other roles.
i like oracles over clerics because i like to have a role in the group and specialize in that role.