A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.That's not an accidental fabrication. It's in the description of the weapon.
What you just quoted there is not what you claimed earlier.
In your post that Jiggy was replying to, you claimed you could wield the bastard sword as a two-handed martial weapon, which is not what the rule says.
I think he was perhaps being generous in assuming the fabrication was accidental rather than deliberate.
A bastard sword can be wielded, without EW proficiency, in two hands as long as the character has martial weapon proficiency.
It can be wielded in two hands by anyone of appropriate size, regardless of proficiency.
The character wielding the weapon, in that situation, isn't proficient in one-handed exotic weapons, they are proficient in two-handed martial weapons.
Martial weapon proficiency applies to all martial weapons, not just one- or two-handed weapons.
They are wielding the sword proficiently just as if it were a two-handed martial weapon.
Wrong.
They are wielding the sword two handed, as if it were a martial weapon. Which means if they're proficient with martial weapons, they don't take a -4 penalty on attack rolls with it. And if they're not proficient with martial weapons, they do take that penalty.
Do I think that means the B-sword is now magically a two-handed weapon? No, I'll grant you that, but I do think it provides some interesting corner cases where that sword could qualify for something like overhand chop.
In order to work the way you want, the rule would have to be changed to say "A character can use a bastard sword as a two-handed martial weapon."
By the way, what is the deal with the rampant Bastard Sword fetish?
I can't speak for everyone, but I've always attached a quasi-romantic quality versatility of it. Soldiers use long swords, barbarians use great swords, but heroes don't fit into those molds (they can come from them, but they're a different breed) and neither does their weapon. Heroes have to be better trained than both in order to fight both and require a weapon that reflects their higher degree of training.
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A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.That's not an accidental fabrication.
It's also not the phrase that I called an accidental fabrication.
Look closely:
as a two-handed martial weapon
two-handed as a martial weapon
Those are not the same thing. One is in the rules, the other is something which you (and others) are accidentally fabricating due to failing to differentiate between an adverb that modifies the noun and an adverb that modifies the verb.
I forget sometimes that the RAW can really come down to the location of language. When the location of the two words "as a" can create such an argument, it speaks to a crowd of people with very acute syntax analysis. I apologize for interpreting the phrase in question to mean that a character with martial weapon proficiency can wield the aforementioned weapon in two hands without taking the -4 to hit, as meaning that for all intents and purposes the weapon works just like a two-handed martial weapon. Clearly that is my own flawed look at that verbiage.
as a two-handed martial weapontwo-handed as a martial weapon
It's being used with two hands as if it were a martial weapon. Kind of like an oversized longsword.
In fact, now that I think about it, what is a bastard sword if not an oversized longsword that most people have to use with two hands unless they are specifically trained to do otherwise?
It's not an exotic weapon...text trumps table.
I linked the table upthread, so here's the text:
Sword, Bastard: A bastard sword is about 4 feet in length, making it too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon.
As you can see, it is an exotic weapon.
that does not make it 'always' an exotic weapon, and certainly not 'always a one-handed weapon'.
While it can be used two-handed as a martial weapon, that does not mean it can be used as a two-handed weapon.
It is always a one-handed weapon, when appropriately sized.
It can be used for over hand chop.
Only if it's a size larger than appropriate.
You couch it in one hand, using your weight plus the mass of the horse to drive it home. That's why it gets the huge crit range and multiplier.
A lance has a crit range of 20.
Everyone knows how to charge with a lance, it's one of those 'unwritten rules' that people try to deviate from to minmax rules.
We're discussing what the actual written rules are, not making up new ones about turning lances into spears and increasing the crit range on horses.
If you are on foot, a lance is simply a spear of various size.
It's not a spear, and it doesn't change size.
Using a lance with Overhand Chop means you would not be using it like a lance on the charge. You would be using it like a spear.
While Overhand Chop does work when charging, you don't have to charge to use the feat.
A spear is another two-handed weapon, and can be used with Overhand Chop.
It would do dmg, have the threat range, and crit modifier of a spear of the appropriate size.
No, it would be treated like a lance, because it is one. Using Overhand Chop doesn't change the weapon into something else.
If you want the extra goodies of being a lance, use it like a lance.
Hitting someone with a lance is using it like a lance.
Trying to redefine 'lance charge' to fit your justification for your build is not how the game works.
Trying to make up new rules that frankly don't make any sense and trying to claim that they're actual rules is not how the forums work.
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Also, language like this:Suck it up!isn't helpful. It's actually rather rude.
It seems as though 'suck it up' was taken more harshly than I intended. It was meant with the same level of harshness as 'Live with it!' or 'Pull yourself together, man!'
If it came across more harshly than that, then I apologise for any offence caused.
A bastard sword is about 4 feet in length, making it too large to use in one hand without special training...
This line is being quoted repeatedly throughout the thread, and I keep glossing over it. I think this line is the key to understanding the weapons classification. It's too damned big to be wielded in one hand, unless a warrior has had specific training to do so. If a warrior(read: someone trained in all the martial weapons) hasn't been trained to do so, they can certainly wield the sword in two hands, and in that case it would be wielded as a martial weapon. We're talking about three sentences here, but if you put them together they are why I keep wanting to classify it as a two-handed martial weapon. Is it a one-handed weapon? NO! Not unless you had some specific training, cause the damn thing is too big to be wielded in one hand. If that's true, it means that "normally" a fighter trained in sword-fighting would use the weapon in two hands. Thus "normally" it's a two-handed weapon. The game classifies it then "normally" as a martial weapon that a fighter would wield with two hands. If that same fighter spent a great deal of time training with the weapon, then they can wield it in one hand, not before, before the training it's a martial weapon that must be wielded two handed.
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Does the 'too large to be used in one hand without special training' mean:-
• with MWP (only) then you take a -4 non-proficiency penalty when using it one-handed, which makes the line above 'fluff'?
OR
• it cannot be used one-handed at all without EWP, which would make the above line 'crunch'?
I think it's the first.
Why? The rules for using weapons of inappropriate size do not change any special rule of any weapon, where that rule is in the description of the weapon. So, reach weapons are still reach when you use a version too small for you, large shuriken may still be drawn as a free action, large bastard swords may be used two-handed as martial weapons, and the line above also applies no matter the size.
Therefore, if the line means that a bastard sword cannot be used one-handed at all without the EWP, then a medium creature using a small bastard sword (for whom it is a light weapon) would be unable to use it in one hand, as this light weapon is too large!
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as a two-handed martial weapontwo-handed as a martial weaponIt's being used with two hands as if it were a martial weapon. Kind of like an oversized longsword.
In fact, now that I think about it, what is a bastard sword if not an oversized longsword that most people have to use with two hands unless they are specifically trained to do otherwise?
Same boons apply to the Dwarven Waraxe and Great Terbutje.
There was a huge post about bastard swords at one post. This was my take-
Developer Intent - A bastard sword is a 2-handed weapon that can be used one handed with EWP. I believe it was SKR that said something along the effects that he would not allow someone to wield a large bastard sword without the EW proficiency.
That is not what is written however and you get odd interactions with overhand-chop and using large bastard swords as martial weapons without additional feats for exotic weapons.
For all feats and effects, the Bastard Sword is a One-handed Exotic weapon.
By the way, what is the deal with the rampant Bastard Sword fetish?
It stems from 1E.
The bastard sword was the ultimate weapon in 1E and 2E. It did dmg as a longsword when wielded in one hand (d8/d12), but this shifted to 2-8/2-16 when used in two hands.
So, it was as good as a longsword all the time, and nearly as good as a 2h sword the rest of the time.
And half-ogres could use it to full effect in one hand.
It has fallen quite a ways from its heyday. If it still used the same rules, it's probably a given it would be the preferred weapon of EVERY fighter.
The reasons longswords dominated in 1/2E? 65% of all magic weapon drops were magic longswords, and it was very hard to get your own made. So, you statistically took what was going to get you a good weapon.
And besides, d8/d12 wasn't bad at all.
===Aelryinth
Snip
If you...
Wow, so much of that was taken totally out of context. Let's start with basics.
A bastard sword is about 4 feet in length, making it too large to use in one hand without special training.
Description: Due to its size, a bastard sword is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.
That's the entirety of the description of the weapon.
If you want to use it one-handed, it's an exotic weapon. If you want to use it two handed, it's a martial weapon. That makes it a martial 2-handed weapon, exotic one hand weapon. If you don't have EWP in it, it's just a 2h martial weapon, and the Exotic Weapon stuff doesn't apply. Anyone who grabs it without EWP grabs it as a 2h martial weapon.
i.e. works fine for Overhand Chop. If you wield it in one hand, BOOM, it morphs to an exotic 1h weapon and is no longer eligible for Overhand Chop.
On Lances: Kindly reference the damage chart for a Lance.
Then go on up to the Spear, and take a gander at it. Oh, my, they do the EXACT SAME DAMAGE. Exactly what I was talking about. A lance not used in a charge is a spear by another name.
But we weren't talking about normal use, where it's a two handed weapon you can use overhand chop with.
We were talking about using it while Charging with the SPirited Charge feat, and the guy wanting to use Overhand Chop at the same time.
1) While mounted, you can use it one handed.
2) Using a lance in a mounted charge is couching a lance, which uses one hand. It is the proper way to use the lance.
3) When you do this, you deal triple damage, instead of normal damage, when you hit on the charge.
I freely admit my error on the threat range. I thought it increased to 19-20 while charging.
If you try to use Overhand Chop on a lance, you aren't using it in a charge correctly, as it's not a spear. You'll do double charge damage, just like any spear, and can get the bonus damage from your Overhand Chop and improved Power Attack.
Will that make up for not doing triple damage? Possibly.
Should he be allowed to stack all that? No. No more then a dead man should be allowed to walk around. A lance used in a charge is used in 1h, and not eligible for 2h stuff if you want the triple damage.
==Aelryinth
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Let's start with basics.
A bastard sword is about 4 feet in length, making it too large to use in one hand without special training.
Description: Due to its size, a bastard sword is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.
That's the entirety of the description of the weapon.
No, it's not. That's not even what the rules say; more like a paraphrase/reorganization of what the rules say, with some formatting added, some wording removed, and some wording altered or added. Where did you even get that?
Wait, I should know this answer by now: d20pfsrd.com, right?
Yep, once again the fans who created and maintain the SRD have re-worded and re-formatted the Published content without saying so. I really wish they would either quote the actual rules verbatim, or at least point out when something on their site is written by them. Really, citing that text as being from the Core Rulebook is borderline fraud, because that's not what's in the Core Rulebook.
Here's the ACTUAL text for the bastard sword:
Sword, Bastard: A bastard sword is about 4 feet in length, making it too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.
The biggest issue here is that they split the description in half, labeling part as the description and italicizing the other part to make it look like it's only flavor text.
For future reference, you might want to avoid using the SRD when discussing the rules, since fans with no more authority than you or me are making personal decisions about how to alter the actual published text and then labeling it as being published by Paizo.
Facts
One handed blades have 5 hit points..
Two handed blades have 10 hit points..
We know the bastard sword can only fall into one classification type. It is either one or the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Now lets go into the description
Sword, Bastard: A bastard sword is about 4 feet in length, making it too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.
The book says IT IS an exotic weapon that can be used AS A martial weapon.
What something is and what it can be used as are two different things.
As an example I can use a large dictionary as doorstop, but it is still a dictionary..
The book says the bastard sword IS an exotic weapon.
The exotic classification of it is an a one-handed weapon. So it is a one handed bladed weapon with 5 hit points.
I will go change that description on D20PFSRD to match the PRD. Thanks for the notice.
edit:The weapon HTML is more complicated than the rest of the site, but I did mention that not all weapons have flavor text so they should try to match the PRD for all of their descriptions.
And if you don't have EWP, a bastard sword is a martial 2h weapon. It's only exotic if you use it in one hand.
That's not going to change, either. ANd if you are using it as a martial 2h weapon, then while you are using it as a martial 2h weapon it's quite eligible for overhand chop...since it's not a martial 1h weapon or an exotic 1h weapon at that point.
You can keep going round and round with that, but that fact is, a bastard sword is exotic in one hand and martial 2h in two hands. It's just what it is.
And Wraith, that HP thing is hardly definitive. If it's wielded in 2h as a martial weapon, does it suddenly have 10 hp? Heh.
==Aelryinth
And if you don't have EWP, a bastard sword is a martial 2h weapon. It's only exotic if you use it in one hand.
That's not going to change, either. ANd if you are using it as a martial 2h weapon, then while you are using it as a martial 2h weapon it's quite eligible for overhand chop...since it's not a martial 1h weapon or an exotic 1h weapon at that point.
You can keep going round and round with that, but that fact is, a bastard sword is exotic in one hand and martial 2h in two hands. It's just what it is.
And Wraith, that HP thing is hardly definitive. If it's wielded in 2h as a martial weapon, does it suddenly have 10 hp? Heh.
==Aelryinth
Of course it does not have 10HP if used as a two handed weapon. That was my point. It always has 5 hp because it is a one handed weapon.
The book disagrees with you. For someone who knows the rules so well, and I am not being snarky, I am surprised to see that you are failing the to grasp the difference between is and as.
One tells the the primary function. The other often gives you a secondary function, and most things are classified by their primary function. I can use a car as a battering ram, but a battering ram, it is not.
Now maybe you think the description should have been written to make the two-handed use the primary function. If so start a thread to get it errata'd, but as it is currently written it is a one-handed weapon first.
Regardless, Wraith, if used 2h, it's a two handed martial weapon, and it qualifies for Overhand Chop. When looking at the weapon at that time, the feat is going to say it's a 2h Martial Weapon, and bing, qualifies. When watching it wielded with one hand, it's going to say its a 1h EW, and no, it doesn't qualify.
Feats and features are fun in that it's possible to qualify and be disqualified for them on an incidental basis.
And the dev comment above was that they didn't put it in the 2h martial weapons area because they didn't want to list it twice...just like the lance isn't stuck in the 1h Weapons area because you can use it that way while mounted.
===Aelryinth
Also it is an EWP because the book says it is an EWP. How you use it, does not change the classification of the weapon. You just can't use it as an EWP with a certain feat.
Correct..you use it as a martial 2h weapon then. And while so doing, etc.
==Aelryinth
I realize everyone that has weighed in on this is very unlikely to change their mind at this point due to any "new" information, but I just wanted to point out that classifying a weapon is decided by a few different factors, as is stated here:
Weapons are grouped into several interlocking sets of categories. These categories pertain to what training is needed to become proficient in a weapon’s use (simple, martial, or exotic), the weapon’s usefulness either in close combat (melee) or at a distance (ranged, which includes both thrown and projectile weapons), its relative encumbrance(light, one-handed, or two-handed), and its size (Small, Medium, or Large).
The first line from above that I'd like to pay particular attention to is "These categories pertain to what training is needed to become proficient in a weapon's use..." Why? Because if the description of a weapon implies that it's listed in this section because of the special training that it takes to wield it in this manner, but without this special training it could still be wielded proficiently, to me, that means that, as a few of us have said for a while now, it's listed here to show "what training is needed to become proficient in [it's] use (in this manner)." Does it explicitly say that? No, but it sure as heck implies it by saying more than once that the damned sword is too big to be wielded one-handed "normally."
The next line I'd like to examine is the one that mentions a weapons encumbrance. A longsword is 4 lbs, a Greatsword is 8 lbs. Clear distinction, a longsword can be wielded "martially" in one hand, but a greatsword can only be wielded "martially" in two hands because it weighs twice as much. What should we do with a weapon that's essentially the same mechanical design, but weighs 6 lbs then...? It's too big to be a martial one handed weapon, but not really heavy enough to be a two-handed martial weapon. I know! Let's say a martially proficient character can use it without penalty with two hands as a martial weapon, but that someone with special "exotic" training could use it in one hand. That clearly shows that it's not light enough to be a true one-handed martial weapon, but also not really heavy enough to be a true two-handed martial weapon. It's sort of a category between those two, and the best category we have that fits that is exotic weapons.
I understand that all of the above is conjecture about what may have happened as the almighty devs were putting together weapons and their categories oh so long ago. I do think, though, that it speaks highly to the bastard sword being a very interesting corner case weapon, that doesn't clearly fit into either martial category, even though a character with martial weapon proficiency is able to wield it without penalty. If looked at this way, I think it speaks to the fact that a bastard sword is a martial weapon that doesn't fit very well into any of the two most fitting martial categories for weapons, which is why it was moved over (or down) into the exotic category. It's a martial weapon, which is why it can be wielded as such without penalty, provided the character uses two hands. If a character wants to wield this martial weapon with one hand, they need more training, and that training puts the weapon into a separate category, because they are already trained in all martial weapons, that category is, by needs, exotic.
It's a lot of looking "behind the screen" so to speak, but I think that examining how weapon category decisions were made, helps flesh out the fact that a bastard sword was designed to be wielded by martial characters. It can and should be used by characters that are trained to use "basic" swords. If that same character wants to use this "basic" sword and carry a shield, though, they need a bit more specialized (read: exotic) training.
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The Bastard Sword is just a One-handed Exotic weapon with a special ability.
Like Deadly, or Trip.
This weapon's special ability is to wielded in two hands as a Martial Weapon.
It's still an Exotic One-handed weapon.
You need the Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Bastard Sword) feat to use it with one hand without penalty.
You can't even take the Martial Weapon Proficiency(Bastard Sword) feat, because that's an invalid choice.
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The Bastard Sword is just a One-handed Exotic weapon with a special ability.
Like Deadly, or Trip.
This weapon's special ability is to wielded in two hands as a Martial Weapon.
It's still an Exotic One-handed weapon.
You need the Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Bastard Sword) feat to use it with one hand without penalty.
You can't even take the Martial Weapon Proficiency(Bastard Sword) feat, because that's an invalid choice.
I respectfully disagree. The only difference between a longsword and a bastard sword is size. There is nothing exotic about that. It was done in a fit of laziness.
You know what happens when you stick to the classifications of weapon handedness regardless of what number of hands you are actually using? You get screwy situations such as:
Two handed weapons being used in one hand still getting two-handed bonuses.
One handed weapons being used in two hands but still being considered as one handed for certain bonuses.
It's silly. While not exactly RAW I believe the RAI is clear that weapons have a starting category. That category affects the HPs of the weapon and what effort it *normally* takes to use the weapon.
However, if you have some means to change the effort (one->two handed or two->one handed) then use the rules applicable to the handedness you are currently using.
I'm amazed this is even a debate.
- Gauss
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Do you know what semantics means?
Semantics: The meaning or the interpretation of a word, sentence, or other language form.
Semantics is what the words mean or convey. The rules are written using words. Semantics is what those rules mean or convey. The difference is semantics, but that makes it no less applicable to the rules. And, in this case, semantics dictates that the rules say it is not a 2-h weapon in the same way that a Longsword is not a two-handed weapon when wielded with two hands.
Do you understand what a semantics argument is?
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You know what happens when you stick to the classifications of weapon handedness regardless of what number of hands you are actually using? You get screwy situations such as:
Two handed weapons being used in one hand still getting two-handed bonuses.
One handed weapons being used in two hands but still being considered as one handed for certain bonuses.It's silly. While not exactly RAW I believe the RAI is clear that weapons have a starting category. That category affects the HPs of the weapon and what effort it *normally* takes to use the weapon.
However, if you have some means to change the effort (one->two handed or two->one handed) then use the rules applicable to the handedness you are currently using.
I'm amazed this is even a debate.
- Gauss
The effort it *normally* takes to wield it is 2-hands. It takes a feat to wield it with one.
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...I realize everyone that has weighed in on this is very unlikely to change their mind at this point due to any "new" information, but I just wanted to point out that classifying a weapon is decided by a few different factors, as is stated here:
Weapons are grouped into several interlocking sets of categories. These categories pertain to what training is needed to become proficient in a weapon’s use (simple, martial, or exotic), the weapon’s usefulness either in close combat (melee) or at a distance (ranged, which includes both thrown and projectile weapons), its relative encumbrance(light, one-handed, or two-handed), and its size (Small, Medium, or Large).The first line from above that I'd like to pay particular attention to is "These categories pertain to what training is needed to become proficient in a weapon's use..." Why? Because if the description of a weapon implies that it's listed in this section because of the special training that it takes to wield it in this manner, but without this special training it could still be wielded proficiently, to me, that means that, as a few of us have said for a while now, it's listed here to show "what training is needed to become proficient in [it's] use (in this manner)." Does it explicitly say that? No, but it sure as heck implies it by saying more than once that the damned sword is too big to be wielded one-handed "normally."
The next line I'd like to examine is the one that mentions a weapons encumbrance. A longsword is 4 lbs, a Greatsword is 8 lbs. Clear distinction, a longsword can be wielded "martially" in one hand, but a greatsword can only be wielded "martially" in two hands because it weighs twice as much. What should we do with a weapon that's essentially the same mechanical design, but weighs 6 lbs then...? It's too big to be a martial one handed weapon, but not really heavy enough to be a two-handed martial weapon. I know! Let's say a martially proficient character can use it
Yes, it is. I can, casually. Then again, I can do the same with a full-blown two-hander. *shrug*.
I doubt I could actually defend myself with either, but it's not the weight. More than anything, it's the length.
I'm a firm believer in letting the rules interpret the rules. So here's something that might shed a bit of new light on this discussion.
The Titan Mauler Archetype for the Barbarian class has a 2nd level (ex) ability that looks like this:
Jotungrip (Ex): At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
This is a clear case of the rules saying that a weapon, even though it is RAW a certain classification of weapon, is treated differently when wielded differently. This is a two-handed weapon being wielded in one hand, and is therefore treated as a one-handed weapon for the purposes of things like STR bonus damage, etc. In my mind this sets up a precedent, or case of equal strength, wherein a weapon, when wielded differently, can, and should, be ruled to act as a weapon of the adjusted category. Since the bastard sword is a sword that is specifically addressed as being "too big to be wielded in one hand without special training," it would seem wielding it as a martial weapon in two hands, can, and should, provide it the benefits of a two-handed weapon of the same category.
I understand that the bastard sword's language doesn't fully support that view, but I do think that it is worded supportively enough to make this the RAI viewpoint. Especially since moving the words "as a" one word to the left would make it so definitively. It's entirely possible that writing the descriptions of weapons was such a monotonous task that the phraseology wasn't thoroughly reviewed for its interaction with every rules situation. This becomes more notable when realizing that the description of the bastard sword was inherited from the 3.5 OGL, and the two-handed fighter archetype was created afterwards.
The book and the table in the book say it is an exotic weapon.
That is RAW.
I have seen no evidence to say it is a different weapon type.
Before anyone thinks to reply remember "as" and "is" are not the same.
One is an approximation. The other is exact.
If you choose to say it is not an exotic weapon by RAW you need an "is" quote.
Yes, but the Jotungrip ability clearly shows that sometimes, within the scope of the rules, a weapon is something, but acts as something else. Why couldn't the same be true in the case of a sword that is specifically described as being "too large to use in one hand without special training?"
If you wield it in one hand, BOOM, it morphs to an exotic 1h weapon and is no longer eligible for Overhand Chop.
The weapon does not morph.
A lance not used in a charge is a spear by another name.
The rules do not support this. If you use a Lance, and you don't charge, it does not lose 4 lbs, the reach special ability, gain a range increment, refund you 8 gp, and become a simple weapon. It also does not start to work with weapon focus (spear) or any other spear-specific effects.
But we weren't talking about normal use, where it's a two handed weapon you can use overhand chop with.
A lance and a spear are both two-handed weapons, so they both work with overhand chop, both during a charge and with a normal attack action.
We were talking about using it while Charging with the SPirited Charge feat, and the guy wanting to use Overhand Chop at the same time.
Those three things work fine together.
Using a lance in a mounted charge is couching a lance, which uses one hand. It is the proper way to use the lance.
The rules give you the option to use a lance in one hand while mounted. The rules also tell you that a lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. Those two things are not dependent on one another.
To put it more clearly: You do not have to use a lance in one hand in order to use it from the back of a charging mount.
A lance used in a charge is used in 1h, and not eligible for 2h stuff if you want the triple damage.
See, this sounds like you're stating that as an actual rule. Is there a rule you can cite that prohibits using a lance in both hands while charging? If you're talking about a house rule, you should make that clear (and preferably take it to the appropriate forum).
And the dev comment above was that they didn't put it in the 2h martial weapons area because they didn't want to list it twice...just like the lance isn't stuck in the 1h Weapons area because you can use it that way while mounted.
The Covenant Man is not a Pathfinder developer. His post was not actually quoting a dev. He was just posting what he thought the reason for the classification was.