Hero Points "Act Out of Turn"

[Morval]

Every now and then my group comes upon a rule that we either assumed one way because we didn't read it carefully or thats how it used to work in 3.5, etc.

For some reason we all assumed Act Out of Turn actually gave you a 2nd turn in the round, but after rereading it I think it behaves like this, correct?

Basically it lets you ready an action without stating a trigger for that action, but this is your action for the current round. So if you have already acted earlier in the round you could not use Act Out of Turn to interrupt a foe that acts after you?

I hope I explained that correctly. I'll use two examples just to further explain.

Two combatants, Joe and Bob. Joe goes first, Bob goes 2nd.

1st example
Joe starts casting a spell. Bob uses a hero point to Act Out of Turn and does something. Then when its Bob's initiative count he has already used a readied action so he is done.

2nd example
Joe casts a spell and completes it. Bob starts casting a spell. Joe wishes to use a Hero Point to Act Out of Turn, but he has already taken his turn for the round and can't.

Thanks for your help,

Konrad

[Howie23]

You can use a hero point at any time. You can take your turn and then immediately use an Act Out of Turn if you wanted to take another action. Resolve it as a readied action; your initiative moves to just before the acting character.

Using your examples...

1st example
Joe starts casting a spell. Bob uses a hero point to Act out of Turn and does something (a single action). Bob's initiative moves to just before Joe's. Bob doesn't act again until his initiative comes up next round just before Joe's.

2nd example
Joe casts a spell and completes it. Bob starts casting a spell. Joe wishes to use a hero point to Act Out of Turn, so he does something (a single action). Joe's initiative moves to just before Bob's (where it already was).

[Morval]

Howie23 wrote:

You can use a hero point at any time. You can take your turn and then immediately use an Act Out of Turn if you wanted to take another action. Resolve it as a readied action; your initiative moves to just before the acting character.

Using your examples...

1st example
Joe starts casting a spell. Bob uses a hero point to Act out of Turn and does something (a single action). Bob's initiative moves to just before Joe's. Bob doesn't act again until his initiative comes up next round just before Joe's.

2nd example
Joe casts a spell and completes it. Bob starts casting a spell. Joe wishes to use a hero point to Act Out of Turn, so he does something (a single action). Joe's initiative moves to just before Bob's (where it already was).

Thanks for responding.

We have always played it that way (the few times we have used this action), but after rereading it during last session I'm not so sure. If you don't mind a bit more discussion here it is. I may just be over thinking this?

Here is the actual rule as per the APG. I added the bold.

Act Out of Turn: You can spend a hero point to take your turn immediately. Treat this as a readied action, moving your initiative to just before the currently acting creature. You may only take a move or a standard action on this turn.

Doesn't "your turn" infer your turn for this round. Otherwise it would say possibly "...to take a readied action immediately" or maybe "...to take an extra turn immediately as per readied action". So if you had already taken your turn this round you could not do an Act Out of Turn" action.

To me after rereading Act Out of Turn it simply is letting you take a readied action without having to specify readying an action or the actual trigger for that action.

Thanks,

Konrad

[Howie23]

No, I don't think so. The round structure is largely geared around a cycle rather than a beginning and an end. I think "your turn" here is the same as "a turn."

Look at it this way: if the character is going to have a turn soon, he can move it up in initiative order, but at the cost of only having a single action. If he's just recently had a turn, he can take an additional action, but at the cost of moving his initiative later in the round.

Take the counter examples in the way you're asking about where the character is either acting first in the round or last. As you're thinking it, the character acting first can never take the Act Out of Turn. The One acting at the end of the round can always take one and additionally moves his initiative earlier in the initiative count in future rounds. No equity here.

[Morval]

Howie23 wrote:

No, I don't think so. The round structure is largely geared around a cycle rather than a beginning and an end. I think "your turn" here is the same as "a turn."

Look at it this way: if the character is going to have a turn soon, he can move it up in initiative order, but at the cost of only having a single action. If he's just recently had a turn, he can take an additional action, but at the cost of moving his initiative later in the round.

Take the counter examples in the way you're asking about where the character is either acting first in the round or last. As you're thinking it, the character acting first can never take the Act Out of Turn. The One acting at the end of the round can always take one and additionally moves his initiative earlier in the initiative count in future rounds. No equity here.

You must be right since when I search on this subject I only see two other people in three years asking this question and no one ever answered them so it must be just how everyone sees it.

I just don't see how "your turn" equals "a turn". Why would they not state you get an extra turn for spending a hero point? :) But since no one else has responded I'll assume its a non-issue and I'm over thinking it.

Thanks for your time.

[Some call me Tim]

Morval wrote:

Why would they not state you get an extra turn for spending a hero point? :)

Actually, while you can't spend a hero point for an extra turn you can spend one to get an extra action on your turn. I'm curious as to why they have get an "extra action on your turn" if "act out of turn" gives you an extra action that can also interrupt another characters turn. The later seems more powerful than the former.

Let's see if you've already acted in this round you get an extra action but your initiative decreases.

If you hadn't acted this round, your initiative would increase, but you only get one action.

After looking at it, "an extra action on your turn" would generally be better unless you really need to interrupt. So giving an extra action doesn't seem out of whack.

[Krico]

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/advancedNewRules.html#_hero-poi nts

Act Out of Turn: You can spend a hero point to take your turn immediately. Treat this as a readied action, moving your initiative to just before the currently acting creature. You may only take a move or a standard action on this turn.

If you choose to act out of turn with a hero point, you act just before the last declared action taking ONLY a move OR a standard for that turn as if you had a readied action. If you act out of turn, that is your only action that turn baring spending additional hero points.

[DesolateHarmony]

hero_points_link

Linked it for you.