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Give a fighter the Samurais Resolve, base uses on Con I.e. 1+CON per day, give them Perception and Know Local (were soldiers right? We should know the Lay of the Land) plus 4 skill points and then change some of the feats into FIGHTER only with less prerequisites, and rewrite feats like weapon focus, shield focus and weapon and shield specialization so that Fighters get things like missile shield and ray shield without paying 5 worthless feats to get and their weapon feats apply to the same weapons as their weapon training does.
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Actually, I've spent a lot of time thinking about what the Fighter Class should get so I'm just going to put mine here, rather than start a new thread.
Starting
Skills 4+INT, Add Perception (he's a fighter, he has to be aware of the battlefield), Knowledge Local (he needs to know the lay of the land), Knowledge Nobility (he needs to know who his potential employers/patrons are) and Heal (guy needs to know how to patch himself up)
Proficiencies: Add his choice of exotic weapon here
1st Level
No-Change
2nd Level
Resolve - Same as the Samurai power. 1/day + 1 additional use per 2 Fighter Levels. Use is replenished when Fighter makes a confirmed kill with 1 addition: Resolute Strike - A fighter may spend 2 uses of Resolve as a swift action to make 1 attack at their Highest BAB that deals maximum damage if it hits, bypasses all DR and ignores any miss chance. Replaces Bravery
3rd Level
No-Change
4th Level
Reputation - Add 1/2 Fighter's level to Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate Checks
5th Level
Weapon Training - Weapon Training same as normal, with 1 addition, any weapon specific feats he has (weapon focus, weapon specialization, improved critical, etc) apply to any weapon contained in his weapon training group.
6th Level
No Change
7th Level
No-Change
8th Level
No-Change
9th Level
No Change
10th Level
No Change
11th Level
Armor Training 3 - Fighter gains a +1 Dodge bonus
12th Level
No Change
13th Level
No Change
14th Level
Stalwart - As the Inquisitor class ability
15th Level
Armor Training 4 - Fighter gains a +1 Dodge bonus
16th Level
No Change
17th Level
No Change
18th Level
No Change
19th Level
No Change
20th Level
No Change
Combat Feats: Shield Specialization - Also gives the Fighter the Feat Missile Shield.
Greater Shield Focus - Allows the Fighter to apply his shield bonus to Touch AC Fighter Can take at level 6, Greater Shield Specialization - Gives the Fighter Ray Shield fighter can take at Level 8.
New Combat Feat, Fighter Only - Overwhelming Assault Prereq Fighter Level 12. A fighter may take a -2 penalty to all swings and to AC, to make an extra attack this round at their Highest BAB minus 2. This can be used to take two swings after a move action or charge, or used to add an additional swing in a full round attack.
New Combat Feat, Fighter Only - Overwhelming Assault Prereq Fighter Level 12. A fighter may take a -2 penalty to all swings and to AC, to make an extra attack this round at their Highest BAB minus 2. This can be used to take two swings after a move action or charge, or used to add an additional swing in a full round attack.
This actually existed in 3.5, it was called Slashing Flurry, but it didn't stack with Haste unless your DM was really nice.
I think the key to really 'fixing' fighters is to get everyone to figure out what the fighter does other than fight. Everyone seems to want something, but have no idea what they want.
*stuff*
You know, it'd be a lot more helpful, constructive, and respectful if you would comment on the work presented in the thread, and not just come in and shotgun up some unrelated ideas. Thanks.
I think the key to really 'fixing' fighters is to get everyone to figure out what the fighter does other than fight. Everyone seems to want something, but have no idea what they want.
I have a pretty clear definition of what I want the fighter to be and do. Some of it also expands to other martials as well. However, without thoroughly reworking the feats, item creation, spells, and skills, giving some basic useability buffs is the mandatory first step.
*stuff*You know, it'd be a lot more helpful, constructive, and respectful if you would comment on the work presented in the thread, and not just come in and shotgun up some unrelated ideas. Thanks.
I think the key to really 'fixing' fighters is to get everyone to figure out what the fighter does other than fight. Everyone seems to want something, but have no idea what they want.I have a pretty clear definition of what I want the fighter to be and do. Some of it also expands to other martials as well. However, without thoroughly reworking the feats, item creation, spells, and skills, giving some basic useability buffs is the mandatory first step.
I think that's what the Swashbuckler class is doing, essentially a fighter with Grit mechanics allowing for burst damage and buffs.
I don't have anything against the additional resource mechanics like grit per se, but I do not think that the state of fighters and rogues would be best improved by the addition of those features. It's a thematic discrepancy, at least it is to me.
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*stuff*You know, it'd be a lot more helpful, constructive, and respectful if you would comment on the work presented in the thread, and not just come in and shotgun up some unrelated ideas. Thanks.
Let me respond in order to your complaints.
Comments on the work presented in this thread.
1. Skills - Convoluted. You're creating an artificial choice and introducing a complicated system in character creation that will affect the long-term development of the character. Forcing an individual to take on a role they may not be happy with 10-15 levels from the start.
Alternative - Provide a small upgrade to the list of class skills: Perception, Heal, Know Local, Know Nobility, that have viable IC reasons for being. Perception: A fighter is a trained warrior, and a trained warrior has to be be aware of his surroundings, keeping an eye out for potential ambushes, traps etc. Healing: You get stabbed enough times with a sword, you learn how to stitch it up. Know Local: You're a sell sword or a soldier looking for work, you need to know where the conflicts are, what's going on, so you can get paid. Know Nobility: Most of the time your officers are noble born. To advance, get the best jobs, stay employed, you need to know who the players are.
We could even throw in appraise if we wanted to, but it's not necessary.
The alternative, gives fighters out-of-combat functionality without forcing them into a role they don't necessarily want to play.
Skill Points addition: I agree with you, 2 more skills plus Intelligence is plenty.
2. Resilience: Again, you're adding complexity and creating a choice where one is not necessary.
The Alternative, give fighters a pre-packaged ability that works well from one of the alternative classes. It adds versatility to the fighter's tool kit. A pinch of offense, with the Resolute strike, and 3 defensive powers. Now the player doesn't have to learn a new game function.
3. Improvise: how often do broken weapons come into play?
4. Armored Skin: I don't mind this, but I think giving the fighter dodge bonuses with their Armor Training is better for the Fighter in the long run, as it gives them a defense against Ray Spells. However, if you're going to keep it, you give DR much later, levels 6-12 is the sweet spot here, not level 3.
5. Quick Study: How often has this come up? The issue is more the feat chains and the concept of Feat Taxes, which is something that this doesn't really fix. Even if you put this in effect, I still wouldn't get shield master until Level 10, while the Ranger's had it for 4 more levels. I don't get ray shield unless I take Disruptive, Missile Shield, Shield Focus and Spell Breaker. I get Improved Critical at level 7, but most people just buy Keen weapons anyways because it saves them on feats and they can get it around level 4.
6. Shake it Off: Resolve solves this, no need for a new ability.
7. Aggressive Charge; Like it, but instead of letting it be pounce. Turn it into something like Rapid Shot archer feat and let it be combined with a single move action.
8. Finally, I wasn't being intentionally rude, but I didn't want to start a new thread and just further dilute the conversation. I think at the core, our concepts are quite similar, the problem is you add a level of complexity that isn't necessary, so I simplified.
Sorry, but these forums don't allow me to update the OP... I value your comments, but you should know that I have already addressed some of your concerns (quick study, improvise) in the more recent version, available here.
Also, I don't really understand how "one of your weak saves is now a strong one" is needless added complexity. Ditto about the "grab one of these vocations that give you two class skills each". I dislike greatly the idea of "giving him something another class already has". The fighter is one of THE core archetype of the fantasy adventure genre; he really should have his own loosely defined (so that he can still fit several molds) niche (this is where Versatility comes in in the newer version).
I realise you weren't intentionally rude, but I do have a thing against jackers. Sorry if I came off a bit hard.
I agree that the fighter needs an owerhaul, but I disagree on the platform most people want to use to fix him.
In my games i've houseruled a bunch of stuff to better fit in with my concept of the game, sometimes for balance, sometimes for fluff and roleplay but mostly to expand options and viable builds.
The Rouge and Fighter both got lots of modifications, direct and indirect.
To reward the rouge for sneak attacking and making sneak attacks be good for other things than just deal damage (namely, his bab increases to full bab when he sneak attacks, giving extra attacks and more accuracy). As an advanced talent there is the ability to "fuse" attacks into a single attack that deals multiple instances of sneak attack dice if it hits.
Because this is a fighter thread ill give more detail on the fighter houserulings:
A fighter gets: 4+int skillpoints per level. The guy is supposed to be the type that has earned all of his combat skills by training and learning, why then neuter his brain capacity?
A fighter gets: Vital strike for free at 6th level, and its iterations at 11th and 16th level. It just makes complete sense to me that the fighter can do this. (Alternatively, if you are using the 3.5 Tome of battle book, he may select a Martial training feat in place of vital strike, treating his full fighter level as initiator level, he must select a "Strike" maneuver with this feat).
Though this is already a lot of extra stuff, I went one further in my fighter modifications.
In my opinion, fighters are not uninteresting or underpowered because they have a weak list of class features, but because feats, as a whole, tend to be rather bland, and once you finish a lengthy feat chain you must begin anew with the next feat chain from scratch.
Say if you're a 8th level fighter and have just finished your first one or two feat chains, you must now start on square 1 picking feats that give you about as much power as they would give a 1st level character.
This in my opinion is a no-no.
To fix this feat issue here are some of my homebrew [u]re-writes[/u] of feats and a selection of some of my favorite homebrew feats:
(The full document of homebrew feats is 15 pages long of 8pt letters and includes for example feats for two-weapon fighting, rouge feats, double weapons and much, much more.)
Modified feats.
Greater weapon focus: In addition to its normal effects, a character with this feat gains a +2 bonus to his CMD against disarm and sunder attempts against this weapon.
Greater weapon specialisation In addition to its normal effects, a character with this feat may when he rolls for damage with this weapon, re-roll one die of weapon damage and select the better of the two rolls.
Improved two weapon fighting The penalty for fighting with two weapons is reduced by 1.
Greater two weapon fighting The penalty for fighting with two weapons is reduced by another 1.
Great cleave when you make cleave attacks, you may ignore up to one empty square to determine if enemies are standing adjacent to one another. When you reach BAB 11 and possess Great cleave, you may select Whirlwind attack as though you had all the requirements for that feat.
New feats.
Dash attack
Prerequisites: Bab 11, Spring attack.
When you use a move action to move, you may, as a swift action, make a single attack roll with a -5 penalty against a target anywhere within your melee reach during that move. This counts as one of your attack for the round.
Finishing move
Prerequisites: Bab 9, weapon focus.
With a weapon you possess weapon focus for you may make an attack that automatically threatens a critical hit. Regardless of the weapon used to perform this attack, the critical multiplier is always x2. If the attack roll is a critical threat, complete the critical as normal for the weapon and it does not count as a usage of this feat. You may use this feat once per day.
Special: A fighter may use it one additional time per day at 15th level.
Suddent dash
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +13.
Up to a number of times per day equal to half your Dexterity modifier or constitution modifier (whichever is higher) you may move up to your speed as a swift action. This movement still provokes attacks of opportunity even though it is a swift action. Your movement must be unhindered (armor does not "hinder" your movement for this purpose). You cannot use a move action to move in the same round you use this feat.
Special: A fighter can use this ability one additional time per day.
Double tap
Prerequisites: Fighter level 15.
When you make an attack as a standard action, you may as a swift action make another attack with a -5 modifier on the attack roll. The second attack cannot benefit from precision damage, Spellstrike, Spell storing or Vital strike.
Some of the feats above are not only very high level feats but limited or extra beneficial to fighters, thus fleshing out the class more by giving it unique advantages.
My philosophy behind high-level feats is that with added level requirements the returns should also improve, the ability to dish out autocrits in the low level range would be ridiculous, even if only once or twice per day but at 9th level critical hits aren't as much of a threat, and thus the Finishing move feat is not in my opinion a badly balanced feat, but its all the classic 9th level+ feats that are poorly balanced.
The PHB2 in 3.5 have a feat chain stemming off Spring Attack that let the user get more attacks by springing.
HardcoreParcore: The user ignores terrain when running or charging. During non game time they spend a lot of it quickly climbing over barriers and furniture. On shipboard, they use cargo as a sort of obstacle course.
Prerequisite: Any charge or running feat.
This qualifies as a fighter bonus feat.
Wouldn't these things fit better into a feat rework than a fighter fix? I mean, yes, they're tangentially related, but the connection is by no means exclusive...
Personally, I change their skill points to 4+Int and have found them to work very well.
Suddenly gaining the ability to climb really well, or be a decent diplomat, or something, is very nice. I think skill points are under-estimated by many people.
I think skill points are under-estimated by many people.
You clearly have not been reading any of the fighter threads.
I think skill points are under-estimated by many people.You clearly have not been reading any of the fighter threads.
Not all, no, but a few. Skill points are often suggested, but I have yet to see many people satiated with that alone. This might be because Fighters cannot easily create a demi-plane, and this makes many people sad.
The career choice here, allowing for fighters coming from different backgrounds and having different training is really great, and I think it's one of the better fighter 'fixes' because of it. It gives an actual reason for those skills to be class skills and tacks some fluff right onto the crunch which people love.