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Okay so currently I am working on my fiancees first official PFS character and shes wanting to try a Half-Elf Ranger/Rogue that mixes it up in combat. Weapons of choice are looking like Greatsword, Longbow, and Warhammer. So originally I was gonna run around with some of the Switch-hitter Ranger stuff I've done in the past but then I realized that Many Shot is a long way away with multiclassing, so instead I'm now considering just getting her Rapid Shot at her 2nd Ranger Level and picking up PBS and Precise down the line possibly but still torn on it. So any advice on feat choices?? Also thinking of leveling her as Ranger 8/ Rogue 4 by the end of her career.
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I don't think you gain anything worthwhile by being a Rogue here. Why not just be a pure Ranger?
4lvl rogue dip isn't bad at all. I'd rethink a TWF build though. With a better str than dex, you could really slice it up. Sneak attack isn't all it's cracked up to be, but if you can position well, it can add alot. Couple things I've run arceoss with sneak attack as a dmg supplement:
1) static dmg always wins out, so do both! A 2h weapon with imp feint and vital strike make 3 sub par choices into 1 pretty sweet offensive punch.
2) you can't grate cheese without the proper utensils. Light weapons with high crit range is the only way to go when you do TWF with a SA backer.
3) haters are gonna hate. Don't hate, congratulate! I really don't know how that applies, but you just remember what I said!
I would probly try something like this:
Half elf, traits are blade of mercy and threatening defender
Str: 14 (+2)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 13
Cha: 9
1) ranger- power attack, skill focus (bluff)
2) ranger- (natural weapon, why? You'll see) weapon focus: nodachi
3) rogue- combat expt
4) ranger- (+1 str)
5) rogue- quick strike, imp feint (from rogue talent)
6) ranger-
7) ranger- cornugon smash
8) rogue- (+1 str)
9) ranger- vital strike (from combat style), deadly aim
10)rogue-
11) ranger- as you like
12) ranger
By lvl 9 (with imp feint, and vital strike) you are doing a base weapon dmg of 4d8 (with lead blades) + 2d6 + 10 (with only a 18 str and + 4 from power attack ... Which you will have better and a better magic weapon by then) and a 18-20 crit range (without keen that is) against a flat footed opponent. That's 36 dmg avg with a better than not to hit, and 66 avg dmg on a crit which will also happen more often than not. Every round you are next to your opponent...
You get the fun of a high static dmg from a 2hw, and all the fun of a fist full of dice to roll.
-Are there better ways? Yes
-Are you having fun though? I hope so!
what is lead blades?
With the thug and urban ranger archetypes, with cornugon smash... You are crowd controlling and still trapfinding...
what is lead blades?
It's a ranger spell that increases your weapon dice. 1d10 nodachi becomes 2d8, and 4d8 with vital strike.
I would probly try something like this:
Half elf, traits are blade of mercy and threatening defender
Str: 14 (+2)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 13
Cha: 91) ranger- power attack, skill focus (bluff)
2) ranger- (natural weapon, why? You'll see) weapon focus: nodachi
3) rogue- combat expt
4) ranger- (+1 str)
5) rogue- quick strike, imp feint (from rogue talent)
6) ranger-
7) ranger- cornugon smash
8) rogue- (+1 str)
9) ranger- vital strike (from combat style), deadly aim
10)rogue-
11) ranger- as you like
12) rangerBy lvl 9 (with imp feint, and vital strike) you are doing a base weapon dmg of 4d8 (with lead blades) + 2d6 + 10 (with only a 18 str and + 4 from power attack ... Which you will have better and a better magic weapon by then) and a 18-20 crit range (without keen that is) against a flat footed opponent. That's 36 dmg avg with a better than not to hit, and 66 avg dmg on a crit which will also happen more often than not. Every round you are next to your opponent...
You get the fun of a high static dmg from a 2hw, and all the fun of a fist full of dice to roll.
-Are there better ways? Yes
-Are you having fun though? I hope so!
Well, I've got to say that's the first time I've seen a use for Vital Strike that I like. If my DM continues using his *&(^&* critical fumble tables (that have killed more characters than any monsters in the current 3.5 game) this looks like a great way to be an effective melee combatant with minimal attack rolls.
But I think your average damage math is off; the extra 2d8 from Vital Strike don't multiply on a crit. My math says that it should be 9 (weapon) + 9 (vital strike) + 7 (SA) + 10 + 1 (Blade of Mercy) for a regular hit = 35 and 18 (weapon) + 9 (vital strike) + 7 (SA) + 20 + 2 (BoM) for a crit = 56
Also, what's Quick Strike? I'm assuming it's from an archetype that I'm not finding.
Sorry, meant quick draw for ease of switch between ranged, melee, and wand of lead blades as needed. Also sorry about the math... I'm a bit tired.
Either way though, this build puts out consistent dmg and crowd control, take more lvls of rogue if you want the extra SA. This is the best way I can figure to get your SA off enough to enjoy it... But as is, it's only an avg dmg of 6...
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Okay so currently I am working on my fiancees first official PFS character and shes wanting to try a Half-Elf Ranger/Rogue that mixes it up in combat. Weapons of choice are looking like Greatsword, Longbow, and Warhammer.
I have made quite a few of this type of character. They can work well, but they do have there limitations. I recommend rogue at 3 if you want to go more for the ranger side. Rogue 5 if you want more of the sneak attack dice.
This type of build dose very well with TWF. The static damage combined with the sneak attack damage. Works well for this build. The down side is damage reduction. So you will need to understand that will be a problem until you get two +3 weapons. I recommend going with kukri due to the high crit range.Here is a example of how I would build this character.
Half-elf
Total levels: Ranger 7 / Rogue 5
Favored Class : Ranger, & Rogue
Str 16 (Focus on str with level bonus, and magic items)
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 8
Ranger Combat Style : 2:Double Slice 6:Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Rogue Talent: 2:Surprise Attack 4:Fast Stealth
Feat: 1:Two Weapon Fighting 3: Weapon Focus Kukri 5:Toughness 7:Power Attack 9:Improved Initiative 11:Improved Critical
If you must TWF, then give it your all! You need a lvl of monk and dragon style to pull it off. Half elf with the ancestral arms for a nodachi, and go from there. You will get 1.5 str with your nodachi, and 1.5 str with your unarmed strikes. It's all about positioning from here if you want to continue on as a rogue. You are not always going to get a full attack, and all of your full attacks won't add SA, but you still have that high static dmg from a 2hw. It's probly cheaper as well. Get the brawling property on your light armor so you are getting a +2 to hit and damage with unarmed strike and they count as magic... This is a +1 armor property which is much cheaper than a +2 weapon, and does alot more dmg as well! It's an untyped bonus so it stacks with amulet of mighty fist for some real cheese.
It will save you some feats too. You will be doing 1.5 str for both TWF attacks which (with a plus 2 nodachi and brawling armor) equals 14 flat dmg for both attacks (assuming an 18 str) plus weapon dmg (a d10 and a d6) plus what ever SA you can pull off.
I've mentioned a variation of this build before (with human), but...
Half elf Ranger 4/Rogue (Scout) 8.
Str 17 Dex 14 Con 13 Int 13 Wis 12 Cha 10
Ranger 1: Combat Expertise, Skill Focus (Bluff)
Ranger 2: Combat Style: two-handed (Power Attack)
Rogue 1: Improved Feint
Rogue 2: Weapon Trick (greatsword), +1 str
Rogue 3: Furious Focus
Rogue 4: Befuddling Strike
Ranger 3: Vital Strike
Rogue 5: +1 Int
Rogue 6: Greater Feint, Honeyed Words
Rogue 7:
Rogue 8: Combat trick (Devestating Strike), (Player's choice)
Ranger 4: +1 Con
At long distance, you use your bow. At short distance, you either charge (at rogue 4), or skirmish (rogue 8). At melee range, you feint. You always power attack using furious focus, since you are getting at most one attack a round, and always use befuddling strike to give your opponent a -2 to hit for 1d4 rounds.
I like it.
No answer for why you'd ever want to be a Rogue at all? You lose base attack, hit points, and awesome class features for 2 skill points, class features that aren't even as good as a feat, and weak, situational damage.
Just make a straight Ranger with the attitude/mindset of a Rogue. If it's about the trapfinding, be an Urban Ranger, or even a Trapper.
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A well made rogue can out damage most other characters. Very few are well made. It requires experience and combat awareness to play one well. I made a rogue with the purpose of out damaging the party's fighter one time. I was not suppressed at the results. After around level 5 they started asking how I was doing so much damage.
This May be of some use/inspiration to you.
A well made rogue can out damage most other characters. Very few are well made. It requires experience and combat awareness to play one well. I made a rogue with the purpose of out damaging the party's fighter one time. I was not suppressed at the results. After around level 5 they started asking how I was doing so much damage.
You're going to have to forgive me for doubting you. Show me your rogue, and I just about guarantee a well made Fighter will blow it out of the water in combat. I bet I could even show a well made Ranger that out fights the Rogue AND has all the same out of combat utility.
Each class has their place. The rogues can throw out damage, but its harder to get to that place than others. If they had a few more built in defenses then they would be more viable. But as it stands, rogues are too swishy to be taken too seriously in combat.
This is coming from a die-hard fan of the class.
Each class has their place.
Sadly, that is not really true. Rogues actually don't have a place because they are obsolete. Everything a Rogue can do, another class/archetype can do better. There is no Rogue that would not be made better by being a Bard, Ranger, Inquisitor, or Vivisectionist Alchemist instead.
Each class has their place.Sadly, that is not really true. Rogues actually don't have a place because they are obsolete. Everything a Rogue can do, another class/archetype can do better. There is no Rogue that would not be made better by being a Bard, Ranger, Inquisitor, or Vivisectionist Alchemist instead.
As much as I agree that there are classes that do things better, I disagree that the rogue is without a place. It just takes some doing to get there. It is a weak class, though. They need a d10 and a will or fort save for starters, maybe a full BaB or some feats. SA isn't worthless, it's just worth less than other built in dmg mechanics.
The 3.5 scout base class was good, as was the spell thief. And there was one class that could emulate other class abilities... Can't think of the name, but if they used some of those ideas when they built the rogue base class, it would have been better. There were also some pretty great feats in 3.x that would have been usefull.
The 3.5 scout base class was good, as was the spell thief. And there was one class that could emulate other class abilities... Can't think of the name, but if they used some of those ideas when they built the rogue base class, it would have been better. There were also some pretty great feats in 3.x that would have been usefull.
Factotum
bringing up the vivisectionist in a "Help me with my PFS character" thread is like giving a starving person a picture of a sandwich
Yes, the factotum! That would have made a great rogue!