|
So in my current game I am playing an evil character who has also been planted as a mole. (Now, I know how people are about PvP, but understand this isn't chronic backstabbing disorder, we're at the end of the game and this has been planned out from the beginning. Up until this point, and for the next few sessions, I'm absolutely a team player.) I'm not quite the Big Bad, but I intend to give them a good challenge and play the 'dragon'.
Luckily, my character is completely non-lethal, and all about subterfuge and control. (He's a caster with a focus on Enchantment and Transmutation spells.) So even if I do happen to defeat the party, although there will be consequences, it is not the end of the line.
I really want this fight to be a memorable and challenging battle for everybody else. I've made plans for just about everybody, but here is the problem. We have a Monk.
Now, monks generally suck as a PC class, and baddies can just ignore them. But that is not an option for me. There's no ignoring her and walking away because she has something I need.
I've been racking my brain how to shut her down, but it is so difficult. She has insanely high AC, touch AC, and Flat-Footed AC so touch spells are almost a guaranteed no-go and summoned baddies will just generally whiff on her. All good saves and immunity to Poison and Disease, so save or suck won't work.
So, when just ignoring them is not an option, how on earth do you shut down a monk?
What's her alignment?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So she has something that you need. Let's take a look at this from an out-of-combat perspective.
Is there a way that, before your evil is revealed, you can borrow this item and replace it with a duplicate? There may be quite a bit of preparation involved to forge it, and duplicate some obvious enchantments, but you've still got time, yes?
Barring that, is there a way to prepare it for easier theft at the time of betrayal. Maybe put an Arcane Mark on it, or something else that would give you a bonus to spells to remove it from their possession.
The best, of course, is if you could somehow convince the Monk that they should give it to you so that you can protect it.
Then there's always the thing where if one of the other characters is better able to get it, that you can charm or dominate them into getting it from the Monk and giving it to you. (Either during the fight or before.)
Good luck!
What level are you? Is the monk the same level?
Not a guaranteed solution, but this might help: If the cannot monk fly, go into the encounter airborne with some spell or item on yourself that will make it impossible/difficult to for anyone to grapple you (Ring of Freedom of Movement, Salve of Slipperiness, etc.). That way, even if the monk abundant steps into your space, she cannot succeed at coming to grips with you unless another party caster helps her out.
Without knowing what level you are my suggestion that I'm about to make are probably mostly irrelevant but I will make them anyways. Most of these spells are high level spells, and if you're high enough level to cast them you will auto win vs pretty much anyone, though taking on the entire group could be difficult.
When combat begins you want to cast fly on yourself and get up out of their range. If you're fighting just the monk he probably doesn't have any significantly good ranged attacks, but if necessary use greater invisbility on yourself. Then use energy drain, enervation, prediction of failure, maze, power word stun/blind/kill. Most of these are high level spells, but if you can cast them they're all pretty much no save, or save and still suck hard. With fly, greater invisibility and a sufficient number of enervation spells you can still reduce them to rubble as you reduce their character level to 0.
|
|
Sorry, I should have mentioned that we are a fairly high level. Right now we are level 12 and just about to hit 13. The end will probably see us around Level 14.
For the record, yeah, this was all agreed upon beforehand. I've done some, well, morally 'questionable' things but I've not been disruptive or anything like that.
I'd considered "Geas", and will actually be using that to deal with another party member. But here's the problem with "Geas"ing the Monk (spoilered for brevity's sake):
School enchantment (compulsion) [curse, language-dependent, mind-affecting]; Level bard 3, inquisitor 4, sorcerer/wizard 4, witch 4
CASTING
Casting Time 1 round
Components V
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one living creature with 7 HD or less
Duration 1 day/level or until discharged (D)
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
A lesser geas places a magical command on a creature to carry out some service or to refrain from some action or course of activity, as desired by you. The creature must have 7 or fewer HD and be able to understand you. While a geas cannot compel a creature to kill itself or perform acts that would result in certain death, it can cause almost any other course of activity.
The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed, no matter how long it takes.
If the instructions involve some open-ended task that the recipient cannot complete through his own actions, the spell remains in effect for a maximum of 1 day per caster level. A clever recipient can subvert some instructions.
If the subject is prevented from obeying the lesser geas for 24 hours, it takes a -2 penalty to each of its ability scores. Each day, another -2 penalty accumulates, up to a total of -8. No ability score can be reduced to less than 1 by this effect. The ability score penalties are removed 24 hours after the subject resumes obeying the lesser geas.
Geas-Quest
School enchantment (compulsion) [curse, language-dependent, mind-affecting]; Level bard 6, cleric/oracle 6, inquisitor 5, sorcerer/wizard 6, witch 6; Domain ancestors 6, charm 6, honor 6, nobility 6
CASTING
Casting Time 10 minutes
EFFECT
Target one living creature
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
This spell functions similarly to lesser geas, except that it affects a creature of any HD and allows no saving throw.
If the subject is prevented from obeying the geas/quest for 24 hours, it takes a -3 penalty to each of its ability scores. Each day, another -3 penalty accumulates, up to a total of -12. No ability score can be reduced to less than 1 by this effect. The ability score penalties are removed 24 hours after the subject resumes obeying the geas/quest.
A remove curse spell ends a geas/quest spell only if its caster level is at least two higher than your caster level. Break enchantment does not end a geas/quest, but limited wish, miracle, and wish do.
I bolded the relevant parts. The way I read that, she would have to sit still long enough to let me Geas her and then give her spoken instruction. Now for our Rogue, I can just Dominate Person and make him sit still and shut up for a while. The Monk? Eh . . . not so much.
Now as for pH's suggestion, I like it a lot, and it is definitely in character, but I am having some issues with that as well. She has max ranks in Perception and Sense Motive, so Bluffing or sneaking are probably not going to work very well. (Damn, this is a situation where having Glibness on my spell list would have been awesome.) She also took that Half-Orc feat that gives her Scent, pretty much eliminating my invisibility. Now on the other hand, whoever mentioned Enervation, I did read up and notice it has no saving throw. Enervation+True Strike might just be the ticket I am looking for . . .
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A couple anti-Monk ideas:
-Enervation. You need to hit (quickened True Strike could help) but there's no save. The downside here though is that all negative levels can be suppressed if her friendly neighborhood cleric just drops a Death Ward on her.
-Suffocation. Unlikely to stick, but being staggered even if they make the save being staggered will mess up the monk's flurry and hamper her ability to effectively combat others in melee. Best if combined with:
-Minions. Pick up something with a summon, planar binding or dominate capable of going toe to toe with the monk, perhaps with a little help from you. Being a transmuter/enchanter you can probably buff things pretty well.
-Scrolls. The monk might be able to handle a SM VII summon, but a SM IX summon is likely a taller order. Or a different 9th level spell. If this is your last fight, then paying for consumables isn't a huge barrier.
-You could just decide that come hell or high water you're gonna stick a save-or-lose spell. Monks have good saves, but if you go all out you can stack the deck pretty hard. Prediction of Failure (via scroll if you need), a familiar using a scroll or wand of Ill Omen, Persistent Spell, and a Limited Wish for a -7 to the save, perhaps. -11 to the save and roll three times take worst is a tall order even for a monk. That does take some time and cash to set up, though.
The poor man's (or action economy lite) version would be Prediction of Failure followed by a persistent save-or-lose (or two or three).
Honestly, Prediction of Failure would probably be a good spell for you to use on her even if not followed by save-or-lose spells... at 13th level, a -4 to saves is the difference between a good save and a poor one, and a -4 to all her attacks would nuke her offense pretty hard as well since monks have trouble hitting on the best of days. There is a save, but that only affects the duration, and fifteen rounds ought to be enough for most battles to resolve. Pick up a scroll of it.
If SR is a concern (off the top of my head I don't remember when monks get it), dweomer's essence is a relatively cheap solution.
|
Geas - how is the problem in your spoiler a problem? I'd think her HD would be the issue. She's 10 HD.
Lesser Geas has the HD limit, allows a Will save, and takes 1 round to cast.
Geas has no limit, no save, and takes 10 minutes to cast.That's why I said find a way to cast Geas.
Manacles of Cooperation
Get the monk to agree to a teleport, and take them to a prison where you will have time to cast the spell.
There are a lot of possibilities.
How are you going to take care of the other party members?
Keep in mind, if you're invisible the monk looses their dex bonus and dodge bonus to AC, so your chance to hit goes way up. If you can sprinkle dust of weighty burdens on her (or use it as a splash) she'll loose her wisdom bonus too because she'l count as having a heavy load. Congratulations, the monk probably has an AC near 10 at that point after negating virtually everything that normally use for AC.
Also assuming the monk is at least 13th level and you are equal in level she will have spell resistance of 10+level. Your check is to meet or beat this. You roll 1d20+caster level+modifiers. Without any modifiers you have a 50% chance to succeed (roll of 10 or more). If you have spell penetration and greater spell penetration (which you should) you get a +4 bonus. This means you only have to roll a 6 or better to succeed. That gives you a 75% success chance vs her spell resistance. Also, keep in mind if she recieves any beneficial spells from her ally she has to lower her spell reistance or they have to beat her spell resistance. Spell resistance works against all spells, not just your enemies.
If you can afford a Robe of the Archmagi and an Orange Prism Ioun Stone they will give you another +3 to caster level vs spell resistance. This gives you a total +7. Now, you only have to roll a 3 to beat the monks spell resistance.
Also, you can use solid fog (no save or spell resistance) or judicious use of wall of stone to wall off allies and entomb them. You could also make use of touch of idiocy (no save) to reduce his wisdom/int/cha. You could reduce them all to 1 potentially. Once these mental traits are toasted you could always charm or bluff the animal (at 1 int they have only animal intelligence). Touch of slime is great too if you think she has a reasonable chance of failing the save. Ray of enfeeblement could drop her strength down low enough that whatever gear she has on her causes her to become encumbered. Lesser rod of maximize with ray of enfeeblement will ruin her day too.
As long as they aren't suspicious of you when you begin you're attack you should just use plane shift or teleport to move them to a hostile environment, like the negative energy plane after you've cast death ward on yourself. Cackle maniacally as they start dying.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Monks are pretty brutal against spell casters. They've got exactly the right defenses against most of your standard spells, and bonuses to the things that can shut you down the best.
Things are stacked against you, but you've got one advantage : Surprise.
This fight should be as good as won by the time it starts.
You've got enchantment spells, so go indirect on this. Charm or dominate some people to help you. Hell, you could even pay some honestly! You should be able to locate some CR appropriate creatures or people to help you out that aren't immune to charm spells. Brush up on a few divination spells if you can.
You might need to travel a ways to find anyone strong enough to give a challenge to high level PC's, but there should be a few bounty hunters or other badasses around. Can you teleport? Might help a lot to visit a few neighboring large cities and dominate some strong people with class levels. Then throw a few mass buffs right before the big betrayal.
You can also dominate or charm someone to put a bounty or warrant out on your monk friend. This works extra well if they go peacefully to clear their name and you betray them in their absence. This is probably the worst option since it involves sidelining a player for the big session.
You mentioned the monk had scent as a counter to invisibility, but can she fly? If she flies by way of a magic item, you can dispel that item. And scent should still leave you with a %50 concealment against her attacks if she gets in range.
At that level you can cast planar binding I think? There should be an outsider somewhere that's good against your monk. Fire elementals are pretty hard to punch, for instance.
Teleport or trap her in an underwater area filled with water elementals. Close the exit with wall of force, stone, or iron. Follow up with suffocate and ask the GM for circumstance bonuses on the effects.
You said you're a caster, but I don't think you mentioned which type. If any of these aren't spells you can cast, sorry.
Why not entrap her in a wall of ice or a wall of force and then cloudkill?
|
|
What metamagic do you have? If you could Still and Silence the Geas, either through feats or rods, it would just look like you were meditating or sleeping... until you completed the spell and targeted the monk with a command to "give me the Mcguffin." Then you just Teleport away.
Edit: I just noticed that Geas is Verbal only anyway, so all you need is 11,000 gp for the normal Silencing rod.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
P.F. Chang's is rather nice place to go out with a date. Hmm get a kick-starter for date money.... Oh wait you mean... Nvm.
|
P.F. Chang's is rather nice place to go out with a date. Hmm get a kick-starter for date money.... Oh wait you mean... Nvm.
I know you think you were joking, but I think you're on to something. Betrayals are always more effective if you can earn your target's trust and get their guard down, and what better way than getting them to fall in love with you?
You may already have a group dynamic set up, and maybe she's even already dating another PC, so it may be late in the game to attempt this, but you don't have to build a full-fledged relationship with her. Just string her along long enough for her to let you get close enough to get that "thing" you said you need. Since she's probably got a decent Sense Motive, this could also be the perfect tactic to get her to misread any hunches she gets about your behavior.
|
Is the goal to take the monk out or just to get the Mcguffin?
Honestly if all you need is to snatch the item simply dominate your party Rogue (or higher one), and buff them and send em in to steal it.
An invisible, Silenced 13th level rogue with a Prestidigitator’s Cloak shold be able to steal anything from anyone without being spotted.
Then you just teleport away. Done.
This is a bad idea that won’t end well. We had a friend of the DM who did this once, and then later the group wouldn’t let him play as a PC anymore.
The point is, altho the idea seems cool, D&D is a Game, and the idea of a Game is to have Fun. Thus, new PC’s are just let in as soon as they show up, so that that player can join in the fun. Realistically, the new PC would be carefully checked out. And, no matter how good you are a medium to high level Divine divination type spell will find you out.
This is a bad idea that won’t end well.
I might suggest targeting the monk as the very first character. Tell the monk that you are going to make him invisible for something and then cast Sequester while he is "willing". If you can't swing that, then you might try Envious Urge on the party, and while those that fail are working on stealing stuff from each other (make sure you are further away than everyone else) you can try to separate the monk from the party using walls or something.
|
|
This is a dangerous route to take in a game. I've seen similar things lead to breaking up the group for good. Make sure it's all in good fun and if you really are the villain, ideally you want to be like all other boss fights: make it challenging, but the heroes should triumph. The last thing you want is to lose friends or break up your group.
That aside, if you really are a "control wizard," then control the fight. Maneuver your victims into an area that is advantageous for you. Use wall spells to separate them. I have seen solid fog used to shut down monks quite well. Other fog effects like acid fog have no saves. Summoned swarms also due damage without saves or attack rolls. Fire shield would do damage back hit. Make sure to have freedom of movement up so he can't just grapple you or the fight will be over in 2 rounds. Black tentacles probably wont get the monk but would likely neutralize most of the rest of the group.
|
Now, monks generally suck as a PC class, and baddies can just ignore them. But that is not an option for me. There's no ignoring her and walking away because she has something I need.
I've been racking my brain how to shut her down, but it is so difficult. She has insanely high AC, touch AC, and Flat-Footed AC so touch spells are almost a guaranteed no-go and summoned baddies will just generally whiff on her. All good saves and immunity to Poison and Disease, so save or suck won't work.
I find it ironic that the class that sucks is the one you cannot figure out a way to beat.
Re: Geas - find a good way to set it up BEFORE you pull the big reveal. Like - "Hey, If I Geas the party ahead of time to 'take no hostile action against (Party Member Name A, Name B, Name C, Yourself)', then we don't have to worry about charms /dominates tricking us into fighting each other!" Lock everyone up with that, then turn and get rude all over them a little while later. In a sense of fairness you could specifically not mention a clause about trying to remove the Geas itself, so they could start frantically trying to get it dispelled when the fight breaks out and mooks swarm them.
You could even put the Geas on yourself as well to keep up appearances... since it's dismissable, just turn it back off when no one is looking.
|
|
For the people worried about how this will turn out, I understand the concern. But this is going to be the second-to-last, perhaps last session this all goes down. We've all played together a long time, and enjoy shaking things up now and then in weird ways. Trust me when I tell you this is not something I would do mid-campaign, nor if I were in a group I had not played with for years and understood, and I have every intention of the party winning. And even if they lost, my character is completely non-lethal. (Something I've been playing until now as a quirk, but it serves its purpose.) There will be somebody left standing to take the fight, although the proverbial scat will be hitting the oscillating sword if they fail.
As for the Divining Spells, the only other arcane sort in the party is a Wizard Evoker who focused almost exclusively on blasting. (I think he has some of the other favorites like 'Fly' and 'Teleport', but that's about it.) In any case, I intend they find out. Just that they find out too late.
In any case, I love all of these suggestions. But one in particular stuck out to me and I think that is definitely what I am going with. It's just a matter now of figuring out how to implicate it.
Sorry to be a little vague on all the details. Just in case any of the other players are checking these boards, I do not want it to become completely obvious what game I am talking about. After everything goes down, I'll definitely fill in the details about what happened and how.
For Artanthos: (Spoilered for being somewhat off-topic)
...to the ball game?
Too bad about the level cap, temporal stasis would be your ticket to dealing with the monk.
The monk should start getting suspicious with that big Sense Motive bonus. Instead of taking her out, how about making her the star that saves the group's bacon? Make the moment memorable for her most of all.