Per Raw can I cast permanency with gust of wind on an object (inside of the box or some item that is then put in a box)? It should probably be difficult to close the lid, but otherwise imagine a metal box that can be opened and closed.
Would you allow/disallow this as a DM, why or why not?
I think yes because GOW eminates from the caster and is under the can be cast on objects or areas section. By logical extension you should be able to make or eminates from an object.
This spell creates a severe blast of air (approximately 50 mph) that originates from you, affecting all creatures in its path. All flying creatures in this area take a -4 penalty on Fly skill checks. Tiny or smaller flying creatures must make a DC 25 Fly skill check or be blown back 2d6 x 10 feet and take 2d6 points of damage. Small or smaller flying creatures must make a DC 20 Fly skill check to move against the force of the wind.
A Tiny or smaller creature on the ground is knocked down and rolled 1d4 x 10 feet, taking 1d4 points of nonlethal damage per 10 feet.
Small creatures are knocked prone by the force of the wind.
Medium or smaller creatures are unable to move forward against the force of the wind unless they succeed at a DC 15 Strength check.
Large or larger creatures may move normally within a gust of wind effect.
This spell can't move a creature beyond the limit of it's range.
Any creature, regardless of size, takes a -4 penalty on ranged attacks and Perception checks in the area of a gust of wind.
The force of the gust automatically extinguishes candles, torches, and similar unprotected flames. It causes protected flames, such as those in lanterns, to dance wildly and has a 50% chance to extinguish those lights.
In addition to the effects noted, a gust of wind can do anything that a sudden blast of wind would be expected to do. It can create a stinging spray of sand or dust, fan a large fire, overturn delicate awnings or hangings, heel over a small boat, and blow gases or vapors to the edge of its range.
Gust of wind can be made permanent with a permanency spell.
Permanency
School universal; Level sorcerer/wizard 5
Casting Time 2 rounds
Components V, S, M (see tables below)
Range see text
Target see text
Duration permanent; see text
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
This spell makes the duration of certain other spells permanent. You first cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell.
Depending on the spell, you must be of a minimum caster level and must expend a specific gp value of diamond dust as a material component.
You can make the following spells permanent in regard to yourself.
Spell Minimum Caster Level GP Cost
Arcane sight 11th 7,500 gp
Comprehend languages 9th 2,500 gp
Darkvision 10th 5,000 gp
Detect magic 9th 2,500 gp
Read magic 9th 2,500 gp
See invisibility 10th 5,000 gp
Tongues 11th 7,500 gp
You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.
In addition to personal use, permanency can be used to make the following spells permanent on yourself, another creature, or an object (as appropriate).
Spell Minimum Caster Level GP Cost
Enlarge person 9th 2,500 gp
Magic fang 9th 2,500 gp
Magic fang, greater 11th 7,500 gp
Reduce person 9th 2,500 gp
Resistance 9th 2,500 gp
Telepathic bond * 13th 12,500 gp
*Only bonds two creatures per casting of permanency .
Additionally, the following spells can be cast upon objects or areas only and rendered permanent.
Spell Minimum Caster Level GP Cost
Alarm 9th 2,500 gp
Animate objects 14th 15,000 gp
Dancing lights 9th 2,500 gp
Ghost sound 9th 2,500 gp
Gust of wind 11th 7,500 gp
Invisibility 10th 5,000 gp
Mage’s private sanctum 13th 12,500 gp
Magic mouth 10th 5,000 gp
Phase door 15th 17,500 gp
Prismatic sphere 17th 22,500 gp
Prismatic wall 16th 20,000 gp
Shrink item 11th 7,500 gp
Solid fog 12th 10,000 gp
Stinking cloud 11th 7,500 gp
Symbol of death 16th 20,000 gp
Symbol of fear 14th 15,000 gp
Symbol of insanity 16th 20,000 gp
Symbol of pain 13th 12,500 gp
Symbol of persuasion 14th 15,000 gp
Symbol of sleep 16th 20,000 gp
Symbol of stunning 15th 17,500 gp
Symbol of weakness 15th 17,500 gp
Teleportation circle 17th 22,500 gp
Wall of fire 12th 10,000 gp
Wall of force 13th 7,500 gp
Web 10th 5,000 gp
Spells cast on other targets are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal. The GM may allow other spells to be made permanent.
I think it is possible to place a small item in a box and then place GOW on that item permanently. I know of no reasons you couldn't do that.
Now, as you say, closing the box would be very difficult (I assume at least a DC 15 strength check?) and keeping the box closed would also be a problem. I could see some GMs ruling that the winds would destroy the box due to the constant 50 mph winds and pressure inside said box if the lid was forced closed for too long.
I think it would be wise to invest in a very sturdy box and consider magical methods of keeping the lid closed and the box in one piece.
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Are you trying to create a wondrous item without the feat? If you are, if i were your dm, I wouldnt allow it. Besides that, if you do have the feat, creating that magical item would cost you less then by going the permancy way. The magic item Wind fan costnonly 5500 (or 2750 if you craft it). A permanency spell costs 7500
Are you trying to create a wondrous item without the feat? If you are, if i were your dm, I wouldnt allow it. Besides that, if you do have the feat, creating that magical item would cost you less then by going the permancy way. The magic item Wind fan costnonly 5500 (or 2750 if you craft it). A permanency spell costs 7500
I've got the feat, but the cost is ridiculous (40k). 2nd level spell X 3rd level caster x2000 x4 since its measured in rounds. That's for an at will item. Wind fan is a couple if times a day.
I'm not considering this for combat applications. I'm looking for amusing out of combat travel mechanisms. It's a rule of cool thing that's not cost effective unless you go the permanency route.
I'm not considering this for combat applications. I'm looking for amusing out of combat travel mechanisms. It's a rule of cool thing that's not cost effective unless you go the permanency route.
Assuming your trying to use it to power a wind powered vehicle I would suggest you watch the Myth Busters episode (or not let your ref) where they use fans lashed onto a boat to attempt to move the boat. You will find that the idea is less than functional. :)
A sack really is more traditional...
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A sack really is more traditional...
Or a politician. :)
But the real question would be "Is the wind blowing, not blowing, or both blowing and not blowing when the box is closed?"Pavlov's wind. ;)
I think you mean Schrodinger's Gust.
I'm not considering this for combat applications. I'm looking for amusing out of combat travel mechanisms. It's a rule of cool thing that's not cost effective unless you go the permanency route.Assuming your trying to use it to power a wind powered vehicle I would suggest you watch the Myth Busters episode (or not let your ref) where they use fans lashed onto a boat to attempt to move the boat. You will find that the idea is less than functional. :)
I was thinking more like air walked party members, boots of levitation, and some strong rope. When you add magic to the equation the laws of physics mutable.
But the real question would be "Is the wind blowing, not blowing, or both blowing and not blowing when the box is closed?"Pavlov's wind. ;)
You're thinking of Chimes of Hunger, aka Pavlov's Bell.
This, however, is Schrödinger's Wind. His windy-puffs, if you will.
Just as important s if it is actually blowing or not, is the question of whether it counts as having dealt it if one has smelt it or if it cannot be smelt through the confines.
EDIT - ninja'd, but mine has umlauts, so mine's better! :D
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I think you mean Schrodinger's Gust.But the real question would be "Is the wind blowing, not blowing, or both blowing and not blowing when the box is closed?"Pavlov's wind. ;)
Ack! Pppbbtbttppttt...need coffee. :p
Thank you, my good man. *wanders off in search of the good stuff...coffee, that is.*
Great, now that song's back in my head.
o/~ Girl you know we been together, such a long long time...
(such a long time!)
o/~ And now I'm ready...to lay it on the line...
o/~ Well! Ya know it's Christmas, and my heart is open wide...
(open wide)
o/~ Gonna give ya somethin' so you know what's on my mind...
(what's on my mind)
o/~ A gift real special, so take off the top..
o/~ Take a look inside...
o/~ It's my *CENSORED* in a Box!
A follow up question:
Assuming the gm ok's the windy box idea, how would you design the lid so it's easier to close/keep closed?
Definitely a hinge(s) of some kind and not a loose lid.
Chains on the outside to keep the hinge from breaking.
I'm thinking an adamantine box and/or magical reinforcement.
Omg! I just had an idea. Make I a platform with various vents so you can control the direction and force of output. Clearly it would require some skill, but similar things exist IRL but the magic variant would remove certain limits such as fuel.
I'll look for a diagram.
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A follow up question:
Assuming the gm ok's the windy box idea, how would you design the lid so it's easier to close/keep closed?
Definitely a hinge(s) of some kind and not a loose lid.
Chains on the outside to keep the hinge from breaking.
I'm thinking an adamantine box and/or magical reinforcement.Omg! I just had an idea. Make I a platform with various vents so you can control the direction and force of output. Clearly it would require some skill, but similar things exist IRL but the magic variant would remove certain limits such as fuel.
I'll look for a diagram.
Are you going for jet power? :)
Platform
http://www.hiller.org/flying-platform.shtml
Hovercraft style:
http://m.hammacher.com/Product/Default.aspx?sku=10963
Just replace the fan with this GOW box and give it a fantasy makeover. Lol.
Are you going for jet power? :)A follow up question:
Assuming the gm ok's the windy box idea, how would you design the lid so it's easier to close/keep closed?
Definitely a hinge(s) of some kind and not a loose lid.
Chains on the outside to keep the hinge from breaking.
I'm thinking an adamantine box and/or magical reinforcement.Omg! I just had an idea. Make I a platform with various vents so you can control the direction and force of output. Clearly it would require some skill, but similar things exist IRL but the magic variant would remove certain limits such as fuel.
I'll look for a diagram.
Jet engines work on a entirely different principle that's a bit too high tech for what I'm looking at. My group tends to avoid numeria. :-)
So I looked at the Skull and Shackles Players Guide because I recalled there was a section on magical effects and such for ships and waterborne travel. As I thought it shows that Control Winds is a stationary effect so it would not be effective to move a ship. However, I could not find Gust of Wind on that page.
Did I just miss it or is it listed somewhere else?
That would help me getter a better idea as to what the designers think a Gust of Wind is capable of doing.
I do not see why you could not craft a wondrous item if you desired. I would probably also allow the Permanancy route. I would just hate to loose the 7500gp if it was dispelled.
*chuckle* Sounds like fun. Make sure you have some way to control that beastie. ;)
It would definitely need some sort of piloting roll to represent the difficulty in driving it.
Meh - for what its worth, we've house-ruled that spell to say that the it can begin and end anywhere within 60' of the caster provided it moves in a straight line. Makes the spell infinitely more useful but not necessarily more powerful.
We had a Sea-Singer Bard in our Skull n shackles campaign who wanted to use her Whistle the Wind ability to be able to speed up the ship from time to time... as written, the spell always made me think of Ursa from Superman II blowing people down the main street of Metropolis...
How about a Stinking Cloud in a jar? ;)
How about a Stinking Cloud in a jar? ;)
Sounds like a fun one time use item. It should be an old (and not thoroughly cleaned) mayo jar.
FWIW, I'd rule "no, you can't do that." Spells that can't be cast on objects normally can't be cast on objects as part of permanency (ditto spells that can't be cast on areas). You couldn't, for example, make an area invisible (permanent or not); you couldn't put a Wall of Force on your buckler.
Having said that, if the idea is cool enough, let it slide.
To answer the OP: yes you could do this. As to closing the lid...
Let's say you have a box with a hinged lid. Into that hinge you build an "on/off" switch. When the hinge is nearly all the way open, the switch is moved into the "on" position and air shoots out. If however you want to close the lid, the air shuts off BEFORE The lid would come in contact with the gust and therefore it wouldn't be difficult to close or keep closed at all.
You could also just have a Tornado-in-a-can, but only if your last name were Heller.