wyvern (n.)
c.1600, formed (with excrescent -n) from Middle English wyver (c.1300), from Anglo-French wivre, from Old North French form of Old French guivre "snake," from Latin vipera "viper" (see viper). In heraldry, a winged dragon with eagle's feet and a serpent's barbed tail
Schmuck
The German word Schmuck means "jewelry, adornments"; the equivalent in Yiddish is schmock or shmock. In German the pejorative "schmuck" would be Schmock, closer to the original Yiddish word. The transition of the word from meaning "jewel" to meaning "penis" is related to the description of a man's genitals as "the family jewels."
The Online Etymology Dictionary derives it from Eastern Yiddish shmok, literally "penis," from Old Polish smok, "grass snake, dragon," but Leo Rosten cites Dr. Shlomo Noble of the YIVO Institute for Jewish Research as saying that shmok derives from shmuck and not the other way around.
troll (n.)
"ugly dwarf or giant," 1610s, from Old Norse troll "giant, fiend, demon." Some speculate that it originally meant "creature that walks clumsily," and derives from Proto-Germanic *truzlan, from *truzlanan (see troll (v.)). But it seems to have been a general supernatural word, cf. Swedish trolla "to charm, bewitch;" Old Norse trolldomr "witchcraft."
The old sagas tell of the troll-bull, a supernatural being in the form of a bull, as well as boar-trolls. There were troll-maidens, troll-wives, and troll-women; the trollman, a magician or wizard, and the troll-drum, used in Lappish magic rites. The word was popularized in English by 19c. antiquarians, but it has been current in the Shetlands and Orkneys since Viking times. The first record of it is from a court document from the Shetlands, regarding a certain Catherine, who, among other things, was accused of "airt and pairt of witchcraft and sorcerie, in hanting and seeing the Trollis ryse out of the kyrk yeard of Hildiswick."
Originally conceived as a race of giants, they have suffered the same fate as the Celtic Danann and are now regarded in Denmark and Sweden as dwarfs and imps supposed to live in caves or under the ground.
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An interesting fault line in the English language occurs in culinary terms.
Sheep (origin. Old English) / Mutton (French)
Cow (Old English) / Beef (French)
Apple, Pear (Old English) / Fruit (French)
Wheat, Bread (Old English) / Pastry, Pie (French)
It makes it pretty clear who won in 1066, who afterwards was doing the farming and meal preparation, and who was doing the eating.
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An interesting fault line in the English language occurs in culinary terms.
Sheep (origin. Old English) / Mutton (French)
Cow (Old English) / Beef (French)
Apple, Pear (Old English) / Fruit (French)
Wheat, Bread (Old English) / Pastry, Pie (French)It makes it pretty clear who won in 1066, who afterwards was doing the farming and meal preparation, and who was doing the eating.
Don't forget:
Pig/Pork
Deer/Venison
Chicken/Poultry
If you can find it, a few years ago the History Channel showed a program called "The Journey of English" (I think they got it from the BBC)that traces the history of the language from Old English all the way to modern times.
I loved that show.
If you can find it, a few years ago the History Channel showed a program called "The Journey of English" (I think they got it from the BBC)that traces the history of the language from Old English all the way to modern times.I loved that show.
I haven't been able to find it on youtube... :-(
I will see if I can buy it on iTunes.
clown
1560s, also cloyne, "rustic, boor, peasant," origin uncertain. Perhaps from Scandinavian dialect (cf. Icelandic klunni "clumsy, boorish fellow;" Swedish kluns "a hard knob, a clumsy fellow"), or akin to North Frisian klönne "clumsy person," or, less likely, from Latin colonus "colonist, farmer." Meaning "fool, jester" is c.1600. "The pantomime clown represents a blend of the Shakes[pearean] rustic with one of the stock types of the It. comedy" [Weekley]. Meaning "contemptible person" is from 1920s.
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Ske-Ud(Proto Indoeuropean roots for 'Squid'): meaning 'to cut up-to cook'
Dubious. The use of "squid" to refer to the cephalopod only dates back to the 1600s and has no known roots in any other languages of the time.
Unless you are suggesting some 17th century sailors studied prehistoric proto-Indoeuropean to derive a name for that creature.
The Chinese word for tomato (番茄） literally means "barbarian eggplant".
Carrot (胡萝卜） literally means "barbarian radish". Classical Chinese had quite a few words for barbarians.
This thread is fun.
knight (n.)
Old English cniht "boy, youth; servant, attendant," common West Germanic (cf. Old Frisian kniucht, Dutch knecht, Middle High German kneht "boy, youth, lad," German Knecht "servant, bondman, vassal"), of unknown origin. The plural in Middle English sometimes was knighten. Meaning "military follower of a king or other superior" is from c.1100. Began to be used in a specific military sense in Hundred Years War, and gradually rose in importance until it became a rank in the nobility 16c. The chess piece so called from mid-15c
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Ske-Ud(Proto Indoeuropean roots for 'Squid'): meaning 'to cut up-to cook'Dubious. The use of "squid" to refer to the cephalopod only dates back to the 1600s and has no known roots in any other languages of the time.
Unless you are suggesting some 17th century sailors studied prehistoric proto-Indoeuropean to derive a name for that creature.
At some point they have taken old words and formed one word. Squid is a pretty old food source. The world didn't just start eating squid in the 1600s.
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At some point they have taken old words and formed one word. Squid is a pretty old food source. The world didn't just start eating squid in the 1600s.Ske-Ud(Proto Indoeuropean roots for 'Squid'): meaning 'to cut up-to cook'Dubious. The use of "squid" to refer to the cephalopod only dates back to the 1600s and has no known roots in any other languages of the time.
Unless you are suggesting some 17th century sailors studied prehistoric proto-Indoeuropean to derive a name for that creature.
No, but they called it other things. If you cannot trace the word "squid" back to proto-Indoeuropean, then that's not where it came from. Words don't die and fade into obscurity for thousands of years and then resurrect.
The nordic trolls are NOT little imps in the caves. They were considered to be a different people, who looked much like humans, with the exception of certain physical traits, like having a tail. There is some confusion about one thing, mainly their size, since there are both remnants of giants and strange humans in their mythology. According to some tales, then, trolls were absolutely enormous and threw huge boulders (called "trollskott") against the churchbells which they did not like the sound of. This was an attempt to explain the presence of such boulders in the middle of a field or a forest, before science understood the effect of the inland glaciers of the last ice age. Other tales tell of children that act Differently, a la the changeling myths.
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No, but they called it other things. If you cannot trace the word "squid" back to proto-Indoeuropean, then that's not where it came from. Words don't die and fade into obscurity for thousands of years and then resurrect.At some point they have taken old words and formed one word. Squid is a pretty old food source. The world didn't just start eating squid in the 1600s.Ske-Ud(Proto Indoeuropean roots for 'Squid'): meaning 'to cut up-to cook'Dubious. The use of "squid" to refer to the cephalopod only dates back to the 1600s and has no known roots in any other languages of the time.
Unless you are suggesting some 17th century sailors studied prehistoric proto-Indoeuropean to derive a name for that creature.
There is 'squid' in PIE...
An interesting fault line in the English language occurs in culinary terms.
Sheep (origin. Old English) / Mutton (French)
Cow (Old English) / Beef (French)
Apple, Pear (Old English) / Fruit (French)
Wheat, Bread (Old English) / Pastry, Pie (French)It makes it pretty clear who won in 1066, who afterwards was doing the farming and meal preparation, and who was doing the eating.
That goes for a lot of bodily functions, too, and which words are vulgar (Germanic-based: shiznit, f*#*) and which are polite (Latin-based: defecate, fornicate).
clown
1560s, also cloyne, "rustic, boor, peasant," origin uncertain. Perhaps from Scandinavian dialect (cf. Icelandic klunni "clumsy, boorish fellow;" Swedish kluns "a hard knob, a clumsy fellow"), or akin to North Frisian klönne "clumsy person," or, less likely, from Latin colonus "colonist, farmer." Meaning "fool, jester" is c.1600. "The pantomime clown represents a blend of the Shakes[pearean] rustic with one of the stock types of the It. comedy" [Weekley]. Meaning "contemptible person" is from 1920s.
It was only recently that I learned that "boor" comes from the Dutch for "peasant" and, hence, the Boers.
Words don't die and fade into obscurity for thousands of years and then resurrect.
Unless you're speaking Hebrew.
(I know, not exactly the same thing, but close.)
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Words don't die and fade into obscurity for thousands of years and then resurrect.Unless you're speaking Hebrew.
(I know, not exactly the same thing, but close.)
Yes, but Hebrew (along with Latin, classical Greek, and Sanskrit) stuck around as a scholarly (in this case, rabbinical) language long after it had fallen out of use in everyday conversation.
Proto-Indo-European was a project in reconstructing prehistoric language undertaken by scholars in the 19th century. People in the 17th century had no concept of that historical construct and could not have used its vocabulary to coin words, especially if the particular proto-indo-european root was not in similar use in any other known languages of the time.
You've hit the nail on the head, Healer. PIE isn't, and wasn't ever a language. It's just common roots of various indo-european languages, which is different than, say, Latin, which has contributed to all the romance languages, and is an actual language which you can learn to speak (or at least translate).
The nordic trolls are NOT little imps in the caves. They were considered to be a different people, who looked much like humans, with the exception of certain physical traits, like having a tail. There is some confusion about one thing, mainly their size, since there are both remnants of giants and strange humans in their mythology. According to some tales, then, trolls were absolutely enormous and threw huge boulders (called "trollskott") against the churchbells which they did not like the sound of. This was an attempt to explain the presence of such boulders in the middle of a field or a forest, before science understood the effect of the inland glaciers of the last ice age. Other tales tell of children that act Differently, a la the changeling myths.
I had the impression that trolls could be of many sizes. My godmother brought a troll puppet with her from Norway once. It stands in her hallway, and is only about the size of a small halfling. Used to scare me witless when I was little.
The operative word there being "puppet."
Trolls are indeed normally described as being at least human-sized (and in the case of the ones who (supposedly) gave their name to my hometown, large enough that their hats are the size of boulders that peek up in the local rapids.
Mind you, small, annoying supernatural creatures can be summed up as "trolltyg."
wand (n.)
c.1200, from Old Norse vondr "rod, switch," (cf. Gothic wandus "rod," Middle Swedish vander), from Proto-Germanic *wend- "to turn," see wind (v.)). The notion is of a bending, flexible stick. Cf. cognate Old Norse veggr, Old English wag "wall," Old Saxon, Dutch wand, Old High German want, German Wand "wall," originally "wickerwork for making walls," or "wall made of wattle-work" (an insight into early Germanic domestic architecture). Magic wand is attested from c.1400 and shows the etymological sense of "suppleness" already had been lost.
cool
This thread is illogical. Words have no internal or external temperature, I fail to see how they could be "cool".
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Being neither hot nor cold, but rather lukewarm, I spit thee from my mouth.