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I was trolling around the Giant in the Playground homebrew section the other day when I ran into:
THIS being possibly the coolest, most thought-provoking, most imaginative, utterly science-y (yes, science!) piece of homebrew ever made for 3.5. It revolves around the Grammarie, a set of principles that bring fantastic, game-altering, and very powerful technologies into the player's hands. I really can't do justice to the concept; I'd recommend checking it out yourselves, if even just to look at the pretty pictures.
Anyways, after digesting what I could, I decided I just had to do something with it, so here's what I was thinking:
Open up a game of Kingmaker with a small group consisting of Golarion's first 'Grammarists' set out to refine their craft and possibly found a community for those who wish to learn the technique. And what better place could there be for a gang of squishy scientists than the Stolen Lands?:)
Essentially we'd open with the first book as usual, exploring new territory, and trying not to die. This part would require much intelligence and roleplay on the part of the players, as the Grammarist is not exactly a very combat ready class. However, with the founding of their kingdom, they'd begin to access all sorts of fantastic technologies which would have campaign altering consequences!
I'd love to write a page about my plans for this, but I'm going to restrain myself and just ask the simple question:
Who's up for a very experimental shot at Kingmaker that will most likely either explode in the hanger or take the skies by storm? (either way it'll hopefully be awesome!)
I enjoy tinkering in the science more than in the magic arts so i am completely interested in running a AP with a whole new set of characters.
Likewise, I think this is an awesome, exciting idea. However, I've just applied to about my limit of games, so I'll wait till I get the big No from at least one of them before I solidly state that I'll apply for this one.
This intrigues me.
Unfortunately, it's about a quarter to Midnight right now so I will need to wait until tomorrow to really explore the concept, but color me definitely interested.
I am also quite interested! This sounds VERY neat, and I'd love to be part of it.
This sound awesome. I would go for Arcanodynamics doing a spellcaster who actually worries about energy. Man definetly want to get in this.
I'm figuring a universalist/general studies gramarist who probably also took a Phys. Ed. elective.
Have you given any thought to where we're from? Given that you seem to be going with the idea we are practically the 'first of our kind'. Are we not originally from Golarion/Avistan? Or possibility we are 'grad students' from the now magically sealed city whose name I can't recall, we were enjoying a 'post graduation' 'night out' when the seals came down & now we're trapped out here perhaps?
edit: The Class skills list is looking very 3.5, it would probably need to be updated to Pathfinder.
Yeah well I think what would work best was something along old Xin and his apprentices we're all students of a gramaire universalist or something and want to expand upon what has been taught to us. Though I reckon the DM will probably have some ideas.
I'm definitely interested. I'll try and have something up tonight :)
Yeah well I think what would work best was something along old Xin and his apprentices we're all students of a gramaire universalist or something and want to expand upon what has been taught to us. Though I reckon the DM will probably have some ideas.
Students? No, no, no, the PCs are going to be the very inventors of the Gramarie, pioneers in a new field of science! How they discovered it, well, that's another matter...
Anyways, glad to see that there's some interest in this weird little idea!
I took another look at the Class skills list & doesn't look very 3.5, it is 3.5.
I went through & updated the skill list to better approximate what it would be in Pathfinder, but there are still skills in there that technically don't exist in Pathfinder.
Gramarist Class skills: Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge: arcana (Int), Knowledge: architecture & engineering (Int), Knowledge: dungeoneering (Int), Knowledge: local (Int), Knowledge: nature (Int), Knowledge: the planes (Int), Knowledge: psionics (Int), Knowledge: religion (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha)
I'm not certain Autohypnosis is necessary as I believe it functioned about equivalent to Concentration for Psionicists, if not it is probably equivalent to Spellcraft. Likewise, Knowledge: psionics could probably be folded into Knowledge: arcana.
I just double checked & Craft is not on the Gramarist's Class skills list?! WTH?! Do they expect to use Spellcraft for everything that would normally use Craft? That seems a little bit daffy.
I took another look at the Class skills list & doesn't look very 3.5, it is 3.5.
I went through & updated the skill list to better approximate what it would be in Pathfinder, but there are still skills in there that technically don't exist in Pathfinder.Gramarist Class skills: Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge: arcana (Int), Knowledge: architecture & engineering (Int), Knowledge: dungeoneering (Int), Knowledge: local (Int), Knowledge: nature (Int), Knowledge: the planes (Int), Knowledge: psionics (Int), Knowledge: religion (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha)
I'm not certain Autohypnosis is necessary as I believe it functioned about equivalent to Concentration for Psionicists, if not it is probably equivalent to Spellcraft. Likewise, Knowledge: psionics could probably be folded into Knowledge: arcana.
I just double checked & Craft is not on the Gramarist's Class skills list?! WTH?! Do they expect to use Spellcraft for everything that would normally use Craft? That seems a little bit daffy.
Actually, I think there's some other fun stuff you can do with Autohypnosis like ignoring caltrop wounds and not dying. The PFSRD has a page for Dreamscarred Press psionics and they have a Pathfinder version of autohypno, so that can stay.
As far as Craft, that should obviously be on the list; doesn't every PF class get Craft as a class skill?
I agree about Craft.
Given that the skills list includes all but maybe two Knowledge skills, & a at least one of those doesn't make sense to not be on the Class skills list, I actually think just switching it to all Knowledge skills are class skills would make sense as well.
Agreed.
Dotting. Relevent webcomic
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Just out of curiosity, are you looking at straight Gramarists or gestalt? It looks like a lot of these games wind up as the latter.
I'm interested in Biollurgy and its possible applications. I'm also interested in the possibilities of combining that with a vivisectionist.
I'd kind of wondered that, too, although I'd been thinking maybe we'd start with a single level of a PC class, and then everything else Gramarist.
Also, the Prestige Classes look wild.
Gestalt? Gestalt is for the WEAK!
Haha, only joking, but seriously, I was thinking that everyone plays straight gramarists with multiclassing allowed.
I also thought about letting you roll up a second set of characters once you start a kingdom. That way you could finally have some chance at straight on combat (empowered by gramarie enhanced technology of course!). Then again, if you wanted to keep adventuring as you gramarist selves, that would be fine too (its worth noting that some of the PrCs open up more a lot more combat options).
How would you feel about the Leadership Feat? Essentially that would kind of be what you are talking about with secondary characters.
What Key Skill replaces Concentration for Eldrikinetics? Or Autohypnosis for Heuristicism?
Edit:
Thoughts on combat
Eldrikinetics: run enemies over with primitive car
Geoccultism: preshape battlefield (Desert and Arctic)
Imachination: preshape battlefield (walls, barracades, etc), maybe some clever uses
Kaleidomantics: preshape battlefield (yellow filter), may be able to completely armor party members against attacks with metal weapons
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Autohypnosis is sticking around, as said above. It's in the pfsrd. Here.
Concentration was rolled into spellcraft, neh?
My only concern with straight gramarists is encounters at first and second level when we're still only capable of throwing 1 damage darts of energy. A giant spider or a few kobolds will likely be a dangerous, if not deadly, encounter.
Perhaps I need to go read the other specialties... They may be more combat capable than the Biollurgist.
We still have access to simple weapons. Crossbows, Maces & Spears are all simple, and while none of those are as sexy as the Martial weapons. , trust me when I say they all do the job just fine.
I was planning on picking up a Martial weapon proficiency as well. Sounds like I may go Toughness as well for some extra HP & be the 'jock'.
Technically Concentration is now a class feature for all 'casters'. It's a level check modified by the caster ability modifier, in this case Int.
Well, I just missed out on (yet another) Way of the Wicked game - so if I fail at the Kingmaker I've currently applied for, I'd love to check this out :) From the looks of it, you're not on a strict timeline, so I'll stay posted!
Twilsemail is correct, eldrikinetics uses spellcraft and heuristicism still uses autohypnosis. In addition: imachination uses perception (as opposed to spot) and yggdratecture will use linguistics (as opposed to forgery).
As far as concerns about early combat, I'm not just going to be springing combat encounters upon you, I'll try to either offer roleplaying solutions or if combat is inevitable at least give you time to prepare, gather intelligence, plan, set up traps, and whatever else you need to give you an edge. Normal characters get their combat bonus from class features, but you will have to get them from your ideas!
Yes of course, as with any 3.5 material, all skill rank requirements should be three ranks lower.
What's gestalt?
Gestalt. You get the best bits of two classes at each level.
I'm still going through all the various class features and specializations, but I'm definitely still interested in this! How many players are you looking at, GM Gluttony? From what I understand, Kingmaker is an AP that can work well with large groups, and if we're all non-combat classes, safety in numbers might be paramount.
I'm still going through all the various class features and specializations, but I'm definitely still interested in this! How many players are you looking at, GM Gluttony? From what I understand, Kingmaker is an AP that can work well with large groups, and if we're all non-combat classes, safety in numbers might be paramount.
Good point. Are you at a stage where you would like to start seeing Character Concepts Gluttony?
I'm preparing for a trip to the other side of the country right now, so I won't have much time to decide formal character creation guidelines but if you want to throw around concepts, by all means go ahead!
I'm not looking so good for the multiple campaigns I've applied for (except the very exciting Cthulhu game you've organised GM), so I'll throw my hat in the ring for this one - I'll start brainstorming some concepts.
I would love to develop a player for this campaign. I need to research it more.
Would you folks like a completely seperate official recruiting page, or should I just throw up character creation guidelines here?
I am very interested in character creation guidelines, personally. I'm ready to create.
I am interested as well and I suggest posting the guidelines here.
Sorry folks, I'm traveling the next few days, so I can't post much, but here's what I was thinking for a very rushed and abreviated character creation guideline set:
20 point buy
3 traits (no kingmaker traits), or one trait and one bonus feat
Average gold
Note that this may change! Also I will be gone for the next five days and likely won't be able to post.
Gluttony, so are we going with Gestalt Whatever/Gramarist or will you allow us to start off with Gramarist creation to fight for us squishies?
No gestalt. I was thinking maybe a free level in some other class though, so you'd all start at level 2.
Anyways, those are loose, loose guidelines, so steer yourselves towards concept more than crunch.
I am shooting for Eldrikinetics concept.
I will probably not keep this name, it's just a place holder Alias.
DM, can we have a Heuristicism NPC? By itself, it is pretty boring specialization, however it can tie the specializations together.
Can we make custom races if we stick to 15 RP or less?
I want to go with a Yggdratecture character who eventually becomes a Lode-Bearer, you know the smart warrior!
What races are allowed? Also, what are some good multiclasses. Alchemst and wizard seem really obvious, but what about lore warden and archaeologist? Good choices?
As far as Craft, that should obviously be on the list; doesn't every PF class get Craft as a class skill?
I think the reason why we don't receive craft is because we can craft anything out of raw magic if we have the principles. Even if you are specialist, you can craft from other specializations. You just can not take doctorate in other specializations. Universalists can take any principle except Doctorate Specialist from Specializations such as BIOY 381: Eccentric Genetics [Specialist] in Biollurgy
I am going to guess it will be allowed but I will ask anyway. Are you allowing firearms. I would think so but wanted to ask anyway.
In addition, are we automatically proficient in our creations? The answer of this may change my feat choices as well.