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Follow-up question: If you have two springloaded wristsheaths and Two-Weapon Fighting, can you activate both in the same round (to draw two daggers, for example). Activating a springloaded wristsheath is a swift action (of which you only get 1 per round), but Two-Weapon Fighting says you can draw two weapons in the same time you would normally draw one. I was assuming yes based on Two-Weapon Fighting, but had the swift action trap pointed out during a game, so for the time being I've swapped a wand in for one of the daggers and only use one wristsheath at a time. That's probably the more conservative approach and what I'll stick to unless it looks like I was right the first time. It's not a huge deal for the character, since the daggers are not her primary weapons, anyway. It just might influence whether or not I take Quick Draw with her next feat or something else.
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Well there is a wrist slot and all of the magic items for that slot require wearing both bracers, or bracelets, so on and so forth. So if the Wrist sheath occupies that slot, then transitively you seem limited to two. This is just rules lawyering though because I can't see any DM allowing you more than 2 and since it's not explicit, I think their common sense would kick in here.
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The better question to ask is...if you are wearing wrist sheaths (regular or spring-loaded) can you also wear a magical item that takes up that slot. Some GMs may rule in favor of wrist sheaths taking up said slot.
Does the Endless Bandolier have to be worn bare-chested, or can I wear a mundane shirt?
If I wear a magical amulet, does that mean I'm not allowed to bundle up with a scarf in cold weather?
Corset of Dire Witchcraft takes up my "Body" slot. Shall I assume my ass is hanging out?
Wrist sheathes are not magical items, and therefore do not take up magical item slots.
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ok, to make this official:
Wrist Sheath, Spring Loaded: This item
works like a standard wrist sheath, but releasing
an item from it is an immediate action.Wrist Sheath: This is a sheath designed to be
strapped to your forearm and hidden under a long
sleeve. The sheath can hold one light weapon,
ranged weapon, or wand that weighs less than 1
pound. Alternatively, you may store up to 1
pound of ammunition in a wrist sheath. As
a move action, you can bend your wrist to
cause some or all of these items to drop into
your hand. You have a +2 bonus on Sleight of
Hand checks made to oppose the Perception
check of someone observing or frisking you
regarding items in the sheath. You can only
wear one wrist sheath per arm.
so, one per arm.
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And since they're non-magical, a four-armed alchemist could wear two of them and still be able to wear a magical wrists slot item.
Benefit: The alchemist gains a new arm (left or right) on his torso. The arm is fully under his control and cannot be concealed except with magic or bulky clothing. The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine (using two-weapon fighting). The arm can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist’s original arms (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, another hand to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb). The arm has its own “hand” and “ring” magic item slots (though the alchemist can still only wear two rings and two hand magic items at a time). An alchemist may take this discovery up to two times.
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ok, to make this official:
so, one per arm.
Wrist Sheath, Spring Loaded: This item
works like a standard wrist sheath, but releasing
an item from it is an immediate action.Wrist Sheath: This is a sheath designed to be
strapped to your forearm and hidden under a long
sleeve. The sheath can hold one light weapon,
ranged weapon, or wand that weighs less than 1
pound. Alternatively, you may store up to 1
pound of ammunition in a wrist sheath. As
a move action, you can bend your wrist to
cause some or all of these items to drop into
your hand. You have a +2 bonus on Sleight of
Hand checks made to oppose the Perception
check of someone observing or frisking you
regarding items in the sheath. You can only
wear one wrist sheath per arm.
By the way, just as a side note, don't forget the most recent errata (from 7/21/11):
• Page 9—In the Wrist Sheath entry, replace the
second and third sentences with “The sheath can
hold one forearm-length item such as a dagger, dart,
or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts.”
• Page 9—In the Wrist Sheath entry, at the end of
the third sentence, add “(provoking attacks of
opportunity as normal).”
• Page 9—In the Spring-Loaded Wrist sheath entry, in
the first sentence, replace “immediate action” with
“swift action.”
The action type change on the spring-loaded version is huge, and the expanded list of what both sheaths can hold is rather significant as well. (The latter was kept when Ultimate Equipment came out as well.)
Casting a spell as a swift action doesn't provoke but I don't know if other uses can still provoke.
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Oh, so, even a Spring Loaded sheath still provokes an attack of opportunity. Interesting. I'm pretty sure most ppl aren't tracking that.Unless there's some sort of blanket rule about swift actions not provoking, which sort of tickles my memory, but...
blanket rule about swift SPELLS not provoking, probably
but the errata mentions after the 3rd sentence, which is about loading the wrist sheath which i always assumed was the act of loading it provoked.
but the point above it combines the 2nd and 3rd sentence, making the sentence about using it the 3rd sentence. that is very confusing, i had never noticed that before. i am still not sure if loading it or using it is supposed to provoke. it doesnt make sense that twisting your arm as a swift action would provoke, while casting as a swift action does not.
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Oh, so, even a Spring Loaded sheath still provokes an attack of opportunity. Interesting. I'm pretty sure most ppl aren't tracking that.Unless there's some sort of blanket rule about swift actions not provoking, which sort of tickles my memory, but...blanket rule about swift SPELLS not provoking, probably
but the errata mentions after the 3rd sentence, which is about loading the wrist sheath which i always assumed was the act of loading it provoked.
but the point above it combines the 2nd and 3rd sentence, making the sentence about using it the 3rd sentence. that is very confusing, i had never noticed that before. i am still not sure if loading it or using it is supposed to provoke. it doesnt make sense that twisting your arm as a swift action would provoke, while casting as a swift action does not.
Careful; some of the errata is for the non-spring-loaded wrist sheath, and some for the spring-loaded one. Looks like you've mixed some up.
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** spoiler omitted **
the AOO is "provoked normally" which seems to me drawing a weapon does not provoke?
Hm, good point. Guess that means the intent is probably that the categorical "forearm-length items" for the sheath needs to include at least one non-weapon item whose drawing would normally provoke.
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Yes, and how many wrists do you have?Ty for info i was wantin to know if springloaded wristsheath was legal and what is the number of (standard) sheaths worn at once
Standard sheaths can go anywhere, even on a bandolier across the chest. I'd say you can have as many of those as you want. Most characters will hit their encumbrance limit before they hit their "Seriously? You have a sheath there?" limit. (I can picture 9 or 10 without a bandolier.)
Most "sheathable" weapons come with sheaths. Wrist sheaths are special because they give you a bonus on hiding the dagger/wand/item. If you're not trying to hide the weapon, you don't need to buy a separate sheath.
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Tangential question:
I've heard it's part of the "Pathfinder Diet" for Clerics/Oracles to carry Breath of Life scrolls in these wrist sheaths.
But given this description (which differs from one used in a previous thread's argument) I don't see how one could validate that use.
Thoughts?
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Follow-up question: If you have two springloaded wristsheaths and Two-Weapon Fighting, can you activate both in the same round (to draw two daggers, for example). Activating a springloaded wristsheath is a swift action (of which you only get 1 per round), but Two-Weapon Fighting says you can draw two weapons in the same time you would normally draw one. I was assuming yes based on Two-Weapon Fighting, but had the swift action trap pointed out during a game, so for the time being I've swapped a wand in for one of the daggers and only use one wristsheath at a time. That's probably the more conservative approach and what I'll stick to unless it looks like I was right the first time. It's not a huge deal for the character, since the daggers are not her primary weapons, anyway. It just might influence whether or not I take Quick Draw with her next feat or something else.
RAW you wouldn't be able to get both. Since drawing is typically a move action that Quick draw bypasses. The sheaths are specific, thus override that Draw/Quick draw, and would prevent that train of actions with the "Swift action" limitation RAW.
You may get some variability between GM's on the TWF. I may personally count the TWF/Swift action as one action, but I don't have a RAW answer to that.
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Tangential question:
I've heard it's part of the "Pathfinder Diet" for Clerics/Oracles to carry Breath of Life scrolls in these wrist sheaths.
But given this description (which differs from one used in a previous thread's argument) I don't see how one could validate that use.Thoughts?
Are you looking at the old description, or the errata I referenced?
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Castilliano, that has been discussed quite a bit lately and remains an issue of table variation. Some argue that the sudden action of activating a spring loaded wrist sheath would damage the scroll. Still others say the list (The sheath can hold one forearm-length item, such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts) is an exhaustive one and scrolls are not on the list. And there are those that classify all the items as "weapon-like" and equate that status to scrolls as well.
When the dust clears, it is up to your GM to decide if its legal or not. It is a good practice that if you are playing a character that uses a wrist sheath containing a scroll of breath of life you ask the GM about their opinion before the game starts so there are no surprises later.
In my opinion, and by no means official or binding, I do not think the RAW supports loading the scroll. However, I allow it because its a smart tactic and nobody, well most of us at least, don't really like PC death.
I do not expect this issue to be settled short of a game-designer comment and I do not expect that to be forthcoming.
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Why don't the devs rule on this kind of stuff for PFS in a timely manner? Kinda frustrating.
It could be because they are spending most of their time on the next new, awesomely cool book/publication for us to buy and devour.
Also, as I understand it, the designers like that there is some ambiguity in the rules to allow all players to experience the game in their own way. Some might like loading scrolls in wrist sheaths, other might hate the idea. Under current rules, both can be right.
Remember, in a home-style game, rule anyway you want. This is only an issue for table consistency within organized play. So Mike could make a ruling if he so chose. However, rulings such as those can lead to extrapolation into the standard game and people can get the impression that since Mike is a Paizo employee, his ruling is all-encompassing and becomes cannon when its not. As such, he tends to avoid making such rulings on what is essentially a general game mechanic, not a campaign issue.
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You may get some variability between GM's on the TWF. I may personally count the TWF/Swift action as one action, but I don't have a RAW answer to that.
That's what I figured after having it pointed out to me. I think it's the absence of the word "draw" in the Wrist Sheath description. Activating them causes the weapons to "drop" into your hands, and in the spring-loaded version, the weapons are "released." So I think, RAW, you're correct.
FWIW, the rule about Two-Weapon Fighting isn't actually in the feat description. It's under the Drawing a Weapon section of Move Actions:
If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.
So, I think since the wrist sheath does not say that you can "draw" the weapon, it doesn't work RAW, even though it makes complete sense to me that it should. I can live with that, though.
This does bring up an interesting question for the other copy of this thread, where it's currently being discussed whether or not retrieving a weapon from the wrist sheath (either spring-loaded or not) provokes. If, RAW, you are not "drawing" the weapon, and even as a swift action it's more like retrieving a stored item, then it would seem the same language trap would apply, which just makes them all the less worthwhile and the 5gp price more understandable. If it's decided that it is drawing a weapon for the purposes of AoOs, then I'd say that brings using two at once with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat back into play.
[[Edited for Grammar]]
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Cheese? I think not. But whatever. Thank you for contributing to making the cleric even more mind-numbing to play in PFS. At your table, I have to load that spell into a valuable 5th level slot. It's not like it makes a cleric a scenario breaking PC. I'd be happy to bring along my buddies who bring PCs that don't let the NPCs do anything at all........
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I'm going to buy the scroll of Breath of Life and the wrist sheath and just clear it at every table.Not on my tables. Unless you're a scroll master (in that case a scroll IS a weapon-like object) that cheese ain't happenin'...
What does being a "weapon-like" object have to do with anything? The wrist sheath says "forearm-length item".
And for the record, "that cheese ain't happenin'" is pretty condescending and flippant, especially when applied to someone's plan to spend big bucks on saving someone else's PC. Save your ire for the spotlight hogs and other disruptive players; don't aim it at the guy trying to be a team player and help other people have fun.