|
Craft wondrous will help if only so that you can make the headband, hat of disguise, and cloak of resistance at a cheaper price, and since your already evil you could charge the PC's full price for any wondrous items they want on the side, just tell them yours are better than the ones in that OTHER store. You know, the one that was conveniently burned down the other night?
If things get really really bad, you could always kidnap the paladin and summon a pit fiend... I hear those guys pay big money for paladins. ;)
Dont sacrifice on gear.
Make all preperations necessary before hand and find a target that has the requsit funds/materials and kill/loot him at the appropiate time.
"Better the evil you know"
|
I just want to interject and say that this is often a really s&~*ty thing to do to the other player who is a paladin, so you want to be very sure that he is OK with it. The problem is that you are doing something that puts his character in a position to where he basically has to PVP you or leave the party, which may be unfun for that player. What if through your own carelessness, he finds our your a murderous fiend and trying to become...I'm currently playing an Oracle who animates the dead. Once I get to around 14th level, I will be making the transformation to lich. I have something planned out with the GM for the transformation, but it's expensive. Standard 120,000gp cost for the phylactery, along with some other specific requirements. I am a human juju oracle, main focus is on animating the dead and letting them do most of my dirty work. Stat allocation is 10/10/10/14/12/17 for anyone who cares.
Any suggestions on how to survive the campaign with little to no magical items? Almost all of my wealth will be going into the phylactery, and I am loath to ask the GM for some sort of assistance in the matter since I'm making these sacrifices to become a lich, if I got compensation for choosing this path it would be meaningless. The only item I'd probably have is a +4 headband and perhaps a cloak of resistance.
Not only suggestions on how to survive, but how do I dissuade party suspicion from lack of magical items? The most amusing part is we have a paladin of Torag in the party. Hiding my journey to lichdom and subsequently hiding the fact that I'm a lich from him would probably be paramount to my survival. He knows I'm evil and grudgingly works with me, but does not abide killing innocents so I try to keep murder and mayhem to a minimum or out of sight. Unless he has no ranks in knowledge religion at all the paladin will know that I had to slay innocents and do other unspeakable acts of evil to become a lich, hiding this is important as I don't want it to escalate into pvp.
I just want to note, I fundamantally disagree with this, but there are differences in play styles
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Magic Items
( 1 ) Until you actually need the phylactery adorn yourself with jewelry.
( 2 ) Pay a wizard to cast Magic Aura on the jewelry (11th level caster X 1st level spell X 10 = 110 gp per item)
( 3 ) Pay that wizard to cast permanency on the auras (660 gp per item).
Issues:
( A ) Magic Aura isn't on Permanency's list of acceptable targets. I think it used to be (or maybe that was just an old house rule). Anyway, ask the DM, maybe she/he/it will be okay with that.
( B ) It still costs you 770 gp per item. But it should fool a cursory detect magic that you're equipped with the "appropriate" amount of magical gear at far less than the 'real' items would actually cost.
The Paladin Issue
If this was at the beginning of the campaign, I'd side with Ooga. But as the paladin was playing a rogue and knew you were animating undead, he's made his own tough.
I'd talk to the player OoC, but I would not put all your cards on the table. Just ask him, "You knew I was animating dead when you chose to be a paladin: Were you planning on their being a confrontation?" See what he says and go from there. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU REVEAL YOUR PURSUIT OF LICHDOM!
|
|
.
The Paladin Issue
If this was at the beginning of the campaign, I'd side with Ooga. But as the paladin was playing a rogue and knew you were animating undead, he's made his own tough.I'd talk to the player OoC, but I would not put all your cards on the table. Just ask him, "You knew I was animating dead when you chose to be a paladin: Were you planning on their being a confrontation?" See what he says and go from there. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU REVEAL YOUR PURSUIT OF LICHDOM!
this this I agree with
Don't forget to invest at least in a Con item for the time being. I know it's useless in the long run, but you need to get to that level 14, and with Con 10 that is unlikely to happen. You can always sell it when you no longer need it to fund transformation.
I'd talk to the player OoC, but I would not put all your cards on the table. Just ask him, "You knew I was animating dead when you chose to be a paladin: Were you planning on their being a confrontation?" See what he says and go from there. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU REVEAL YOUR PURSUIT OF LICHDOM!
+1
If this plan devolves into campaign ending conflict, it's much better to take everyone but surprise to ensure maximum destruction. After all, what better way to teach the player not to bring a Pally into a campaign that you're playing in than bring the whole thing to a crushing end. I mean, it's not like you could have voiced any concerns when he was making his new character.
/sarcasm
Seriously, though, don't be a dick. I shouldn't have to enumerate a list of dick moves for you, you should know them already.
Is reanimating family members as zombies and cross dressing them too much? Yes? No?
Depends. Yours or his? :-D
Would it work if the player knew, and the character did not?
You might actually have to, you know, role-play. But why can't you all tell a story together?
Why just choose one? Reanimate them all, have a german sparkle party.Is reanimating family members as zombies and cross dressing them too much? Yes? No?Depends. Yours or his? :-D
As long as you're being even-handed about it, I see no problem . And you're going to be-dazzle them?? Not sure if that's extra layers of awesome-sauce or a fate worse then the reanimation! :O
|
|
Another fun way to make money if you have a nice high bluff (you do have a high bluff, right? Ok, good) is to go to a graveyard, along, late at night, with no nearby clerics (small towns tend to have them) and make some zombies. Have them start attacking people. Do not tell the party. Tell the mayor you can handle his problem. Kill off zombies. You are now the lone hero that saved the day, and you can collect that wonderful reward money.
Alternatively, use a zombie horde to destroy a nearby village and loot everything. Now you have more bodies too. Just tell the party your character is going on a 'nature walk' or something like that.
Also, 100% agree with not letting anyone ever know that you are trying to be a lich. For some reason, people tend to think badly when you say "I wanna be a lich when I grow up."
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
he would just fall hard enough to go antipaladin and has already touched on that scenario too.
You should encourage this! If you can facilitate his fall to anti-paladin and then become the lich that he's enslaved, er, beholden to, all the better.
As for the whole innocents thing, try to set up situations where the paladin has to choose between allowing the innocents to live and letting the BBEG get away. At first, the paladin will choose the innocents, of course. But as time goes on, you then plant the seed in the paladin's ear, "This BBEG has killed so many more innocents than those we would have had to kill to get at him that first time. We're responsible for those deaths that BBEG has committed since then because we didn't act." And watch as the next time, the paladin justifies killing the next batch of innocents and his journey to the Dark Side will be complete.
|
|
...and his journey to the Dark Side will be complete.
You have no choice now other than to do this and wear the emperor's robes. Also, paint the paladin's armor black, maybe give him construct arms and legs, and make him take one level of universalist wizard. Oh yea, and his sword has to be on fire. And having your own anti-paladin lackey is a great plus.
This is so much win! ;-)
And it should be a Brilliant Energy sword, IMHO...
he would just fall hard enough to go antipaladin and has already touched on that scenario too.You should encourage this! If you can facilitate his fall to anti-paladin and then become the lich that he's enslaved, er, beholden to, all the better.
As for the whole innocents thing, try to set up situations where the paladin has to choose between allowing the innocents to live and letting the BBEG get away. At first, the paladin will choose the innocents, of course. But as time goes on, you then plant the seed in the paladin's ear, "This BBEG has killed so many more innocents than those we would have had to kill to get at him that first time. We're responsible for those deaths that BBEG has committed since then because we didn't act." And watch as the next time, the paladin justifies killing the next batch of innocents and his journey to the Dark Side will be complete.
If a dm was trying to make the pally fall everyone would be screaming he was a jerk and this is no better. Don't try to mess with another characters concept to fit you own unless there cool with it. This could end very badly.
|
|
We already came to an understanding with the animating the dead, he knew I was doing it and won't have an issue with it, and has a backstory to match. However he has stated killing the innocents is a no-no and I obviously can't tell him I'm becoming a lich (that's a surprise that the GM and I wanted to drop on the party later) so my hands are tied there.It's pretty much a given that at some point if you actually complete the road to becoming a Lich, it's going to involve crossing some evil line the Paladin (or for that matter anyone who's not an amoral murder hobo, why do people think that issues of good are Paladin only?) is going to make an issue of you crossing.
If the Paladin is the only good guy in a party of ammoral or immoral bastards, then he's in the wrong group. If they're not bastards than he's not the only one you have a problem with, although he might be the one who calls down the Hunt on you.
he does have a point, though I do believe that some LN or CN (for different reasons each) would see the advantage of having you in the party, better the evil you know than the evil you don't, the enemy of my enemy, etc etc etc
As far as the wealth by level thing goes:
1) Get crafting feats.
2) make 140,000 gp worth of items at half price
3) when you are ready to make your phyla terry, sell those items to buy the materials for your phylactery
I once ran a campaign with mostly evil characters. Once character crafted items for the party members at about 75% of the purchase cost, thereby pocketing a profit. That could make some coin, also items you create can be sold for half price, the same cost as making the item. So you would not really forgo much in the way of magic just sell it all in a large city when you need to transition.
|
|
Definitely discuss this whole thing with your group. Explain that you're looking to make your Evil a bigger part of campaign, and ask if they (the players) would be interested in the roleplaying challenge of your oracle trying to corrupt the others. If the paladin's player has already discussed becoming an Antipaladin, he should be interested. Introduce the possibility that your Oracle could help him become a Graveknight, and if your corruption attempt succeeds, he'll be the first one to take a step down the road to a sentient undead party. This could be a great storyline, and I think you've got a good start.
i'd say make sure the other party members (not just the paladin, but he's a main factor) are cool with you taking such a dark road. Because having the whole campaign grind to a halt because one guy had to be all dark and edgy is just a bit of a pain in the neck.
also, it would be fairly easy to split form the party and embark on your phylactery ritual somewhere dark and safe (like orchestrate getting a letter from a "relative" on their deathbed calling you away, it gives you a viable reason to leave the party and the paladin can't question it--even evil people can love their family).
you should have a secret base somewhere already, since you're obviously setting yourself up as the BBEG and end the campaign with everyone either hating your guts and not inviting you back or loving it and it rounding off that storyline for you all to play new characters and your necromancer now being the evil overlord of the world (making all that effort to become a lich completely useless since you cant play it).
also, do you have plans for after you become a lich (world domination?), or are you just aiming for it for the novelty of it.
Maybe there is a way you could take out some sort of loan? Could be from an NPC maybe another party member. When you turn to lichdom you're like... a lich so maybe that NPC just "kills" you?
|
I just want to interject and say that this is often a really s&*%ty thing to do to the other player who is a paladin, so you want to be very sure that he is OK with it. The problem is that you are doing something that puts his character in a position to where he basically has to PVP you or leave the party, which may be unfun for that player. What if through your own carelessness, he finds our your a murderous fiend and trying to become...
The heck? Notalich didn't DO anything to anyone elses character. He's modifying his own. As long as he can have the character willing and able to work with the party (for whatever reason) he's not grinding the game to a halt or compromising anything. It's everyone else who makes those decision. All notalich has done is changed his type- it just so happens to represent terrific evil in a party here evil is not tolerated. He's EVEN going out of his way to make sure it's all well and hidden.
Trying to make it sound like notalich is actually DOING something to other party members and is somehow a bad guy (pun intended) is inane. Oh no, I picked a neutral evil rogue in a party with a paladin. Now I'm a jerk because the paladin is going to have my head since I like to STEAL and MURDER and am amoral- even if I am hiding those actions from him. Give me a break.
You want to talk about role playing? Let the group figure it out, in game. I played a lawful evil rogue who stole from the group CONSTANTLY...she'd search for treasure, take a cut, even swap things out- then let the group know what she found and we'd all split from there. It was hilarious. I never stole so much that it hurt anyone and I made her lawful because it worked better with the party. She made sure to give fair due when it was due. She'd steal 100 gp from a chest of 500 and when the party got to split the remaining 400 she'd pretend to be 'honorable ' and 'selfless' and opt to only take 50 or something. Loved it.
But I was role playing a thief. And if the party had found out, I'm sure there would have been minor pvp or threats or dismissal from the party. But that's common sense. I knew that when I chose the class.
--
Becoming a lich doesn't grind the game to a halt. That is entirely up to the players. The paladin will have the hardest choice to make but he'll make it and the game will move forward from there. The Paladin doesn't only have one choice and a good RPer can probably come up with some clever reasons to make things work, or make things get reeealllly interesting. This sounds like an awesome surprise to spring onto people after 14 levels of play. Totally worth whatever comes after.
I just want to interject and say that this is often a really s&*%ty thing to do to the other player who is a paladin, so you want to be very sure that he is OK with it. The problem is that you are doing something that puts his character in a position to where he basically has to PVP you or leave the party, which may be unfun for that player. What if through your own carelessness, he finds our your a murderous fiend and trying to become...The heck? Notalich didn't DO anything to anyone elses character. He's modifying his own. As long as he can have the character willing and able to work with the party (for whatever reason) he's not grinding the game to a halt or compromising anything. It's everyone else who makes those decision. All notalich has done is changed his type- it just so happens to represent terrific evil in a party here evil is not tolerated. He's EVEN going out of his way to make sure it's all well and hidden.
Trying to make it sound like notalich is actually DOING something to other party members and is somehow a bad guy (pun intended) is inane. Oh no, I picked a neutral evil rogue in a party with a paladin. Now I'm a jerk because the paladin is going to have my head since I like to STEAL and MURDER and am amoral- even if I am hiding those actions from him. Give me a break.
You want to talk about role playing? Let the group figure it out, in game. I played a lawful evil rogue who stole from the group CONSTANTLY...she'd search for treasure, take a cut, even swap things out- then let the group know what she found and we'd all split from there. It was hilarious. I never stole so much that it hurt anyone and I made her lawful because it worked better with the party. She made sure to give fair due when it was due. She'd steal 100 gp from a chest of 500 and when the party got to split the remaining 400 she'd pretend to be 'honorable ' and 'selfless' and opt to only take 50 or something. Loved it.
But I was role playing a thief. And if the party had found out,...
Sorry can't agree. If your playing a char you know the rest of the party is going to conflict with your being selfish and that kills games. The game is a group effort towards a common goal. If everyone else in the party says there going to play some version of good and you come back with a neutral evil rogue your being a jerk. They see the game one way and your playing a char that is incompatible with that. Everyone blames the pally or the good char when there is conflict but some of us don't like playing with sociopaths in the party. If you create a char that the other characters wouldn't work with you (pally in a party of scumbags or evil in a party full of good) have failed the point of this game.
|
|
Sorry can't agree. If your playing a char you know the rest of the party is going to conflict with your being selfish and that kills games. The game is a group effort towards a common goal. If everyone else in the party says there going to play some version of good and you come back with a neutral evil rogue your being a jerk. They see the game one way and your playing a char that is incompatible with that. Everyone blames the pally or the good char when there is conflict but some of us don't like playing with sociopaths in the party. If you create a char that the other characters wouldn't work with you (pally in a party of scumbags or evil in a party full of good) have failed the point of this game.
Did you maybe miss the part where NotaLich said that the player currently playing a paladin started with a rogue, then chose to play a paladin knowing that there was an Evil necromancer already in the group, and has discussed the possibility of his paladin falling and going Antipaladin? Bringing an extremely Good character into a group that has alignments of mostly neutral and evil is just as big a foul as the other way around.
Also, a little advice for NotaLich: Have you considered the Soul Drinker prestige class? It's a really fun class with a lot of interesting abilities, including the ability to drain people's souls and use them to craft magic items... like, say, phylacteries. It has 8/10 casting progression, but that shouldn't be a problem since you won't have the money for your phylactery until level 14 anyway.
Of special interest to you is the soul drinker's use of cacodaemons and energy drain attack to create soul gems, which can be used in the creation of magic items, with values ranging from 100 gp for weak beings such as commoners to 5000 gp for great souls like those of dragons and mighty heroes, or even priceless souls of the truly unique and legendary.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
"How did I become a Lich? By subduing an ArchAngel and drinking its very soul to power my unholy artifact. Would you like a demonstration? I promise it to be a once in a lifetime opportunity."
Yeah, that's a worth an epic level of 'Prestige Class: Baddass.'
|
|
I found the whole situation dastardly hilarious.
Huge potential repercussions, but how epic would it be for the paladin to discover his friend was planning on becoming a lich all along? I don't know any of the details of the campaign, but this sounds like a campaign in itself!
Hopefully nobody kills each other in their sleep, that would be extremely cheap and anti-climatic.
Just hint a lot that you're really interested in what would happen if... and give subtle hints that going to the dark side sounds Really Interesting!
|
|
This could end up a really epic evil party. Maybe you and the paladin complete your falls at the same time, and as you become a lich, he becomes a graveknight antipaladin. The rest of the party falls in as devil-bargainers, vampires, and what-have-you, and voila! Your next campaign is to try and defeat your old characters, new rulers of the world!
Depending on how it was handled, I think there's a lot of fun to be had in playing a good character who is walking around with someone who turns out to be Pathfinder's version of Raistlin Majere.
Epic level WTF.
|
|
@Chaos Scion, If I were making a chaotic evil antipaladin in a game of all lawful good paladins and clerics, you might have some sort of a point.
But if I am doing my neutral evil rogue thing and trying to keep it from prying eyes, then saying I'm the bad guy (ignore the pun) for choosing that type of character is..well, I'm not going to say because it's not polite. But I can't steal from npc's and innocents because the rest of the players at the table want me working with them? There is a HUGE difference between working towards a common goal and having side goals which don't necessarily have anything to do with the party. I can think of so many ways to play a lich in a party of good characters and have them not only never know, but also have no reason to suspect. I can imagine countless ways to run various thieves- not rogues, but actual thieves in a party of lawful good paladins and crusaders and not once draw suspicion barring a failed roll. Just because everybody picked one thing doesn't mean I have to or should pick another. This starts to go into the kinds of silly arguments that because the other 4 players have not chosen a healing class yet, that now I *have* to or I'm being a jerk because we need some healing to move along or work together. There are truly only two alignments which are inherently disruptive to any sort of party, regardless of the reason and those are: Chaotic Evil and Chaotic Neutral.
Those alignments aside, all of the rest can work and fit into 'virtually' any other existing party type you can imagine, though some restrictions apply based on campaign, and specific classes and features.
Those are exceptions to the rule.
Also, there is nothing wrong with a character that conflicts with other characters or a party. The extent of that conflict is what matters and how that conflict would be resolved. I've personally been in games where a poor character choice was made by a player who had plenty of room for improvement at RPing in general, and the conflict that resulted from their character choices ended up serving to enrich most games in the long run.
Also, there is nothing wrong with a character that conflicts with other characters or a party. The extent of that conflict is what matters and how that conflict would be resolved. I've personally been in games where a poor character choice was made by a player who had plenty of room for improvement at RPing in general, and the conflict that resulted from their character choices ended up serving to enrich most games in the long run.
Agreed with everything you said, Dark Immortal, but let me add an addendum here: This kind of RPing takes emotionally mature players. If your group HAS that, then you're golden. Not every group does.
But even with that said, agreed. :)