Inevitable response to all these female gamer threads

[kmal2t]

I'm tired of seeing all these stupid female gamer threads where people are asking things like "uh what do you of the other mysterious gender like to do in an RPG?" or complaining about chauvinism in the game. I have yet to play an RPG where there was any sense of "machoness" considering the average RPG player could get beat up by an average woman. The issue it comes down to is sensitivity.

The solution to this problem is simple. Don't categorize all women as a certain type and take it as a case by case basis. If there is a girl going to join your group (and no one is that familiar with her) someone definitely should clear her beforehand that your in-game content gets graphic and your OOC chatter gets pretty raunchy. If she knows that beforehand and joins then she has nothing to complain about because she knows what she got into. Obviously you're not going to have the entire table change because one person came in. There are plenty of women who can handle this, and there's some who can't and there will be other games for them.

If you have one or more women or a few people who are sensitive and form a group you should let the more raunchy player know he may need to tone it down for the dynamic of this group. In this case the raunchy guy knows what he's getting into.

Also, if you come into a game understand how CERTAIN GAMES ARE DIFFERENT. Don't come into a WoD game or something dark and expect it to be PG or lollipops. That's probably not how the game is going to be. If you can't handle a more mature game then you should probably play something different.

/end rant. Don't need my ring of protection +5. Come at me bro.

[Nymian Harthing]

Chauvinism in the game? Hmm. I don't believe the game itself is chauvinistic. Chauvinism in some of the folks who play? Yeah, unfortunately.

And yes, a lot of the issues that occur between players and/or groups can be cleared up with communication. Women and men both game. Both have issues due to cultural expectations and such. Not all games are created alike. And so on and so forth, ad nauseum.

It can also be said that if you don't like a particular type of post, don't read it and comment on it. Even if you disagree with someone else on the subject of a thread, you can highlight the disagreement in a civilized and respectful manner.

[Halflingtime]

I learned nearly everything I know now about sex, fetishes, and deviant culture from the gaming table. While it was usually mentioned light-heartedly, I didn't feel I was being targeted for being female, so much as for being sheltered.
Where I am, gaming groups are actually composed by equal parts female and male. However, I do note that the dm, who is usually male, gets disgruntled when we fixate on things that are 'girly' in game. Sure, ROTL-wise, Shayliss's seduction gets a graphic narration, but anyone pursuing Aldern gets black-screened the instant they enter the bar. Also, we have to roll will saves a lot more often to not act 'compulsively', and our pet bunnies get punted by the male players...
and the female players...
Oh, and a majority of the rough-and-tumble man-abusing female PCs I've seen played on the boards and irl by dudes. Girls are usually chill.
Wait, where was I going with this? GIVE MAH BUNNEH BACK!

[Scott Betts]

kmal2t wrote:

I have yet to play an RPG where there was any sense of "machoness"

Therefore it must not exist or be a problem for anyone, right?

Thanks for letting us know!

Also, "machoness" isn't the whole of the problem. Or even most of it.

Quote:

considering the average RPG player could get beat up by an average woman.

Is this how you think the world works?

I really want to know. This is important.

[Lord Snow]

kmal2t wrote:

I'm tired of seeing all these stupid female gamer threads where people are asking things like "uh what do you of the other mysterious gender like to do in an RPG?" or complaining about chauvinism in the game. I have yet to play an RPG where there was any sense of "machoness" considering the average RPG player could get beat up by an average woman. The issue it comes down to is sensitivity.

The solution to this problem is simple. Don't categorize all women as a certain type and take it as a case by case basis. If there is a girl going to join your group (and no one is that familiar with her) someone definitely should clear her beforehand that your in-game content gets graphic and your OOC chatter gets pretty raunchy. If she knows that beforehand and joins then she has nothing to complain about because she knows what she got into. Obviously you're not going to have the entire table change because one person came in. There are plenty of women who can handle this, and there's some who can't and there will be other games for them.

If you have one or more women or a few people who are sensitive and form a group you should let the more raunchy player know he may need to tone it down for the dynamic of this group. In this case the raunchy guy knows what he's getting into.

Also, if you come into a game understand how CERTAIN GAMES ARE DIFFERENT. Don't come into a WoD game or something dark and expect it to be PG or lollipops. That's probably not how the game is going to be. If you can't handle a more mature game then you should probably play something different.

/end rant. Don't need my ring of protection +5. Come at me bro.

Actualy the dicussions in this forum are usualy more intelligent than what you seem to suggest - had I seen a thread where someone was actualy asking "what do women like in gaming", I'd mostly disregard it... not that even that question is 100% stuipd, because there IS value in hearing the stories and experience around the table from girls.

Most of the threads around here try to approach the problem - which is, that there are not as many female players as male players - from interesting new angles, and try to figure out why that is so and how that can be solved.

After GMing for 9 years, and having many female friends during that time, I still only ever had 4 female players at my table (and never more than 1 of them at a time), as opposed to male players which I had more than 20, I think.

Wanting to solve that issue is legitimate, and a great place to start doing so is here in the forums where you can discuss it with other passionate players (both male and female) of the game who'd like to see things change.

[RadiantSophia]

kmal2t wrote:

stupid female gamer

There. That sums up your opinion. Meanwhile others have a different one.

[kmal2t]

There is nothing masculine about gaming. I'm sorry. You roll dice and play make believe. On the scale of masculinity most gamers are at near the bottom of the rung although I wouldn't doubt there are plenty that are delusional enough to think otherwise about themselves and gaming. These are probably the same people that think playing video games puts them on the same athletic plane as NFL players.

I've seen at least one thread asking women what females like in gaming..I've seen countless posts complaining about being the victim of "insensitive behavior" and that people aren't being sensitive to their needs. The solution is simply having women and players in general be forewarned of the type of behavior that goes on at the table. If a male or female joining can't handle it, move on before it happens or join and don't whine when it does.

And as for being asked out by a fellow player? Boo hoo. Its normal for people to ask other people out especially in a social environment. He didn't ask you in the middle of a funeral or from a tree outside your window. If you say no and he keeps persisting then obviously you need to let him or someone know he's making you uncomfortable, especially if he's invading your personal space.

And RadiantSophia, just you especially after making such an uninformed reply to a thread you ether didn't read or clearly couldn't understand.

[RadiantSophia]

kmal2t wrote:

And RadiantSophia, just you especially after making such an uninformed reply to a thread you ether didn't read or clearly couldn't understand.

I read and understood just fine. You are yet another person who thinks that women don't need a voice in gaming.

kmal2t wrote:

I'm tired of seeing all these stupid female gamer threads

i.e. stop writing threads about women in gaming. Message received loud and clear.

[Scott Betts]

kmal2t wrote:

There is nothing masculine about gaming. You roll dice and play make believe. On the scale of masculinity most gamers are at near the bottom of the rung although I wouldn't doubt there are plenty that are delusional enough to think otherwise about themselves and gaming.

The fact that you think this has to do entirely with perceptions of tabletop gaming as masculine is baffling.

Quote:

And RadiantSophia, just you especially after making such an uninformed reply to a thread you ether didn't read or clearly couldn't understand.

You don't really have the credibility to be saying things like that.

Quote:

I'm sorry.

No, you're not.

[jlighter]

kmal2t wrote:

There is nothing masculine about gaming. You roll dice and play make believe. On the scale of masculinity most gamers are at near the bottom of the rung although I wouldn't doubt there are plenty that are delusional enough to think otherwise about themselves and gaming.

This is also a false claim. I've known a few people who, on the scale of masculinity (an arbitrary scale if ever I saw one), scored reasonably high and were gamers. And they still enjoyed coming out to game and have fun trying to tackle the evil Sorceress, and then trying to get something to change our own caster back into herself following a baleful polymorph.

I've gamed with people near the bottom, and people closer to the top. The bulk of people I've gamed with who, for whatever reason, require ranking on the scale of masculinity score pretty much across the middle region.

You do make a few points. Gaming is not inherently masculine, and being a gamer does not make somebody as masculine as an NFL player. That said, being an NFL player doesn't really make somebody masculine, either. It's not the NFL or the game the makes somebody masculine. Both activities are a bit more neutral on the scale of masculinity. The players make it a masculine (or not) activity. The exception, of course, being synchronized underwater sweater-knitting. A more masculine activity I never did see.

Gaming doesn't need to be masculine or feminine to be fun. And sensitivity to players' needs (not women and players, just any and all players) is something that is necessary in any gaming group. That's what threads like, "What do women like in gaming," are trying to accomplish. Men are, in some ways, stupid animals. Some of us recognize this, and attempt to correct the deficiency by inquiring after information that will help us avoid stupid mistakes, like making an insensitive personal comment or treating a female gamer differently because we think she can't take what the boys can. For the record, I tend to disbelieve that female gamers are in any way incapable of competing toe-to-toe with male gamers with regards to game content, raunchiness, or any other aspect of a game. YMMV

Keep this in mind: you may have the universe figured out, but maybe the rest of us don't have the details down perfectly yet. When there's information that we need, we ask questions. Don't fault us for being less perfect than you. Try educating instead of denigrating.

[Liz Courts]

Locking thread.