Indipendently from the rules (i don't think there is anything against it), would you let a druid remain one, after being turned into a vampire?
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As long as he continued to revere nature, he'd be good.
Well assuming his alignment didn't auto-shift to Chaotic Evil or summat.
Yeah, depends on whether all vampires are evil in your campaign world.
If all vampires are evil, then he'd have to go for the NE alignment to be a druid.
It might mess with the Wildshape class ability though, since I think undead type might clash with it, but vampires can take other forms anyway, so you might handwave it if there's a clash.
Any druid that wound up being a vampire, whether he automatically became Vampire Minded, would have some serious philosophical and psychological problems since he is now an unnatural creature that defies the laws of nature.
Not sure if the nature spirits/gods would let them still have their powers. Depends on the game world.
I agree with Big Lemon. I think the natural forces that be would cut the druid off the moment he became an unnatural abomination. He'd need to fix that before they let him back in the fold. Although I think as a loophole I'd allow him to cast reincarnation on himself if I were a natural power that be.
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Maybe he becomes nature's "black ops" guy? If a village is encroaching on the forest, he "corrects" the situation?
There's also the blight druid archetype.
The blight druid is still part of the nature, somehow. An undead druid to me is an abomination, though a nothing stops a vampire to pursue nature's goals.
Same goes for aberration druids (lol?).
Things like plagues and natural disasters, while obviously negative, are still a part of soem natural order in a world where nature is an abstract, practically religious force. Undead on the other hand are literally the antitesis of life and living things. They react to positive and negative energies in a way opposite to how living things act.
Frankly I'm in the "vampires automatically become psychopaths when they turn" camp because that's what makes vampirism and fighting vampires scary.
Blighter PRC would be an option to keep druidy powers.
I can imagine that a vampire (or other undead) druid would still be able to retain it's powers provided that he/she became undead unwillingly, and did some atonement type deal, basically swearing to use it's new found immortality to serve nature forever.
I know that in 3.5 there was a feat that made it so you could wildshape once you became undead, I don't know if you lose the ability to wildshape all together before had (I feel as though you would), but the feat would allow you to become like a zombie version of the animal, which I guess is pretty cool.
Additionally for RP value your druid would hate itself for what it is and be depressed as all hell.
If there is any way to heal vampirism, unless the druid was actively seeking to achieve that cure, they could hardly be considered to still "revere nature". Being undead is a direct affront to natural law. It violates everything about the circle of life and vampires in particular are abominations which fuel their profane powers with the blood of innocents.
So, no, not really. As a GM I would have a serious, serious problem with a vampire druid.
I know that in 3.5 there was a feat that made it so you could wildshape once you became undead, I don't know if you lose the ability to wildshape all together before had (I feel as though you would), but the feat would allow you to become like a zombie version of the animal, which I guess is pretty cool.
There is an undead druid (an elf, leader of the Eldreth Valuthra (spelling?))in one of the 3.5 Forgotten Realms books. He retains all of his druidic powers without needing a special feat. At least, it makes no mention of him loosing any of those powers.
There is an undead druid (an elf, leader of the Eldreth Valuthra (spelling?))in one of the 3.5 Forgotten Realms books. He retains all of his druidic powers without needing a special feat. At least, it makes no mention of him loosing any of those powers.I know that in 3.5 there was a feat that made it so you could wildshape once you became undead, I don't know if you lose the ability to wildshape all together before had (I feel as though you would), but the feat would allow you to become like a zombie version of the animal, which I guess is pretty cool.
Thats 3.5 and Forgotten realms. Neither of which are Pathfinder. it shows precedent, but Faerun also had good liches which Pathfinder doesnt.
I think the natural forces that be would cut the druid off the moment he became an unnatural abomination.
Stop repressing those different from you. Is not a black heart still a heart?
I think the natural forces that be would cut the druid off the moment he became an unnatural abomination.Stop repressing those different from you. Is not a black heart still a heart?
Only in the most technical of senses.
Only in the most technical of senses.I think the natural forces that be would cut the druid off the moment he became an unnatural abomination.Stop repressing those different from you. Is not a black heart still a heart?
What about rotting unbeating hearts?
Is it an odd pairing? Sure. But there isn't anything about vampirism that prohibits the requisite reverence for nature.
The blood is the life.
Exactly, what do vampire bats drink? What do you drink? Blood.
You revere life differently than you did alive maybe (you are no longer a carnavore or herbivore), but eh.
Is it an odd pairing? Sure. But there isn't anything about vampirism that prohibits the requisite reverence for nature.
The blood is the life.
Exactly, what do vampire bats drink? What do you drink? Blood.
You revere life differently than you did alive maybe (you are no longer a carnavore or herbivore), but eh.
Vampire bats are animals. There are a lot of animals that drink the vital fluids of other animals, including ticks, mosquitoes and leeches.
Undead vampires are not animals. They are undead abominations which have completely separated themselves from the circle of life. They do not age, do not grow, and do not die. As far as I can tell, they don't breed either.
In fact vampires are, if anything, a mockery of life. You can all play however you like, of course, but druids in my worlds are not going to suffer a vampire to live any more than they will allow zombies or skeletons to roam their forests.
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Well your Druids are all tree-hugging bigots so nyeeeh.
Is it an odd pairing? Sure. But there isn't anything about vampirism that prohibits the requisite reverence for nature.
The blood is the life.
Exactly, what do vampire bats drink? What do you drink? Blood.
You revere life differently than you did alive maybe (you are no longer a carnavore or herbivore), but eh.
Vampire bats are animals. There are a lot of animals that drink the vital fluids of other animals, including ticks, mosquitoes and leeches.
Undead vampires are not animals. They are undead abominations which have completely separated themselves from the circle of life. They do not age, do not grow, and do not die. As far as I can tell, they don't breed either.
In fact vampires are, if anything, a mockery of life. You can all play however you like, of course, but druids in my worlds are not going to suffer a vampire to live any more than they will allow zombies or skeletons to roam their forests.
Vampires can breed. Dhampirs exist in Pathfinder.
Plus, you can create more vampires ala emulating breeding.Are viruses don't follow circle of life: are they undead abominations which have completely separated themselves from the circle of life?
Vampires can breed. Dhampirs exist in Pathfinder.
Plus, you can create more vampires ala emulating breeding.
Are viruses don't follow circle of life: are they undead abominations which have completely separated themselves from the circle of life?
Well, according to the race description dhampires are rare examples of either a pregnant woman being turned into a vampire (the apparently preferred explanation) or the result of a "recently turned" vampire getting a living woman pregnant. I could speculate why the writers felt that for some short period after becoming a vampire a male vampire might still have active seed, but hey, this is a family messageboard. So the conclusion seems to be that fully converted vampires apparently don't breed.
Also where in the RAW do you see viruses referenced?
Umm, Adamantine, I can't find where it says only recently turned vampires breed.
Those who do often abandon their monstrous children and refuse to speak of the matter. While some speculate that dhampirs result when mortal women couple with vampires, others claim that they form when a pregnant woman suffers a vampire bite.
Maybe it said that at one point but it doesn't any more.
Hell, with Blood of the Night, even NOSFERATU can have Dhampir babies.
Rynjin, I had read that and it stuck in my head, but when you asked I didn't remember. A fairly exhaustive search turned up this tidbit in the "Vampire template" section of the bestiary:
Dhampir: Known as ghoul-blooded or half-vampires, those cursed to live as dhampirs know a miserable half-life. Born from mothers infected with vampirism in the final days of their pregnancy or sired by freshly spawned vampire fathers, dhampirs live with the curse of vampirism in their mortal blood. Although the taint grants these rare souls eerie abilities, such as sensing nearby undead, so too are they cursed with a measure of their accursed parents’ ravenous natures, making many just as dangerous as vampires themselves.
Bolded for relevance.
Don't even remember now why I was looking up vampire templates...
Also worth noting is that the children of dhampirs are not vampires, nor even dhampirs. So even if you want to argue that vampires "breed" by creating dhampirs, since dhampirs don't breed true, it still doesn't work. As I said, so far as I know, vampires don't breed.
Hm, interesting.
So what about a druid that venerates a demon lord associated with nature, like Cyth-V'Sug or a god like Camazotz? Those clearly are forces of nature or closely associated with nature yet I doubt either of them would shun a vampire druid. Same would go, I think, for entities like Ghlaunder, infernal dukes or daemon lords.
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"The double-O means he has a licence to [level-drain] when he chooses... where he chooses... whom he chooses!"
Maybe nature is a hypocritical bastard, who occasionally needs a hatchetman to do the dirty work. If eco-friendly solutions or brutal elemental force can't get the job done, the vampire druid may be able to use the powers of undeath in the service of nature.
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Indeed there is.
Merrick, the Half-Elf Vampire Druid.
I would allow it. Being undead does not mean you don't revere nature. The fact that you are no longer a part of it, has nothing to do with your reverence for it.
In one of the games I'm running the primary antagonist is a ghost druid. The druid considered a particular valley her protectorate and often fought against its encroachment from the nearby empaire. She was betrayed and murdered by her lover, but then rose as a ghost. She still protects the valley to this day; the valley is the thing that binds her to the material world, and she uses her druidic powers to protect it.
Just for context, I'll note that the quote Adamantine Dragon posted is originally from the "Classic Horrors Revisited" book.
Vampires are predators even if they are undead; I'd imagine that just because you exist outside of the foodchain doesn't mean you can't find a place within it.
The Shades of Uskwood are a druidic sect in Nidal with access to Animate Dead. There's even a vampire druid in Carrion Crown... just because you're undead doesn't mean you can't be a druid. It actually sounds like a pretty fun character hook too.
Edit: ninja'd by Zarzuakar and Rynjin. Well played...
Whatever put sunbeam and sunburst on the druid spell list seems to show a certain hostility to vampires.
I will not allow an undead druid or palidin.
Undead are the physical and incorperial repersentation of the destruction of all life.
They are not simply removed from life but actively seek to subvert and destroy it usualy through some grisly method of feeding on the blood, meat, or souls of the living or in the creation of more undead.
Not all undead feed on the souls or bodies of the living. Liches don't.
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I will not allow an undead druid or palidin.
Undead are the physical and incorperial repersentation of the destruction of all life.
They are not simple removed from life but actively seek to subvert and destroy it usualy through some grisly method of feeding on the blood, meat, or souls of the living.
But last I checked most carnivores feed on the blood and meat of the living
Living carnivores free the lifeforce of there prey before they consume its flesh they dont use there preys flesh to convay there preys lifeforce to be destroyed to sustain themselves or feed oblivion.
Living carnivores free the lifeforce of their prey before they consume its flesh they don't use their prey's flesh to convey their prey's lifeforce to be destroyed to sustain themselves or feed oblivion.
What?
Dead is dead. Vampires drink blood, wolves ea flesh. Neither sucks out the souls of their victim or anything like that.
undead is not dead.
vampires feed on the lifeforce of there victems using blood as a conduit for that lifeforce.
wolves do eat flesh.
lifeforce=soul=anamateing force = everything like that.
vampires feed on the lifeforce of there victems using blood as a conduit for that lifeforce.
Quote where it says vampire feeding is different from any other animal feeding.
I dunno, I reckon the two are incompatible.
If just putting on metal armour can get your powers nixed, the Nature mojo is going to flip right out at you becoming undead :p
Energy Drain (Su)
A creature hit by a vampire's slam gains two negative levels. This ability only triggers once per round, regardless of the number of attacks a vampire makes.
Blood Drain (Su)
A vampire can suck blood from a grappled opponent; if the vampire establishes or maintains a pin, it drains blood, . The vampire each round it drains blood.
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I dunno, I reckon the two are incompatible.
If just putting on metal armour can get your powers nixed, the Nature mojo is going to flip right out at you becoming undead :p
And yet in an official Paizo AP, there is a Vampire Druid.
Energy Drain (Su)
A creature hit by a vampire's slam gains two negative levels. This ability only triggers once per round, regardless of the number of attacks a vampire makes.Blood Drain (Su)
A vampire can suck blood from a grappled opponent; if the vampire establishes or maintains a pin, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage. The vampire heals 5 hit points or gains 5 temporary hit points for 1 hour (up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to its full normal hit points) each round it drains blood.
Notice that Energy Drain and Blood Drain are two separate things, and that grapples are not natural attacks.
No one is infalable, mistakes are made.
energy drain is kicked by blood drain and both are unatural attacks designed to feed and heal the undead.
The rules never say a vampire or any other undead has to stop revering nature, any more than a demon or devil might has to not revere it.
Even if one can extrapolate undead that feed on souls/life forces can't be druid it does nothing for liches and other undead.
A lich druid, that would be nice.. :)