Around Little Rock there are several groups. And I know of two besides mine down in the south east area around Monticello.
Anything you know of up around Mountain Home?
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Also, any subculture where "rape" has become synonymous with "defeat decisively" deserves special consideration. If she's doing a long term analysis of how we got from Pong to the MMO culture, that's worth watching.I hear the word "rape" used in pretty much every "subculture" I know of in just about the same way I hear it used in gaming. Which is extremely rare anyway.
I hear the word "gay" used routinely in pretty much every subculture as a derogatory term by teens and twentysomethings. In fact there are conversations where I might hear "that's so gay" a dozen times without so much as a nod.
To suggest that gaming culture uses "rape" more than, just for example, sports culture, is just silly.
If we want to discuss a culture that truly denigrates and demeans women, why aren't we talking about hip-hop culture?
The point of her work isn't to say "this is the worst sexism that exists in the world".
The point of her work is to say "this sexism exists."
Just because something isn't the worst doesn't mean it shouldn't be pointed out or addressed.
Here on these boards we represent a slice of the gaming community. Unlike some of the problems talked about down in OTD, examining flaws in our own community actually can have value. It's highly unlikely that any discussion that happens on these boards is going to change what's going on in the music industry. There is a possibility that we can change, or promote change, within the analog and (to a much lesser extent) digital gaming community.
Paizo is one of the bigger gaming companies now, up there with WotC and FFG. Conversations on these boards have already reached the ears/eyes of the CEO and given her things to think about and consider. She doesn't control gaming culture, but she can have a big impact on it.
Self-examination is more useful than pointing out the flaws in others.
Anything you know of up around Mountain Home?Around Little Rock there are several groups. And I know of two besides mine down in the south east area around Monticello.
No that's the other end of the state from me. Sorry
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Here on these boards we represent a slice of the gaming community. Unlike some of the problems talked about down in OTD, examining flaws in our own community actually can have value. It's highly unlikely that any discussion that happens on these boards is going to change what's going on in the music industry. There is a possibility that we can change, or promote change, within the analog and (to a much lesser extent) digital gaming community.
Paizo is one of the bigger gaming companies now, up there with WotC and FFG. Conversations on these boards have already reached the ears/eyes of the CEO and given her things to think about and consider. She doesn't control gaming culture, but she can have a big impact on it.
Actually, by most measures, Paizo has become the industry leader. So what Paizo does can have a HUGE impact on what other companies do.
Self-examination is more useful than pointing out the flaws in others.
True.
One of the reasons I started this thread, though, is to get a temperature test of how much (and what kind of) change is wanted/needed.
Go to the thread title:
This even, indirectly, ties back into the my main point. The HORRIBLE, misogynistic, crude, abusive, and inexcusable acts that Anita Sarkeesian has been subjected to both made her blog more important then it would have otherwise have been, and these acts also created a barrier to rational discussion of the wants of gamers of both genders.
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@ Lord Fyre I have to agree on the fact that women also want these things to a degree.
On of my wife's first request when I got skyrim on my pc was better looking female models and more feminine looking armor.
Saying that "X culture" is worse than "Y culture" regarding bigotry, portrayals of women, etc. sets up a false dichotomy. That we don't have to worry about Y as long as there are problems in X. If we apply this philosophy, nothing would ever get done.
Yeah, their is a lot of vile things in say the music industry that poorly represent women, and might influence a wider number of people. But we can look at the way women are portrayed in gaming without ignoring how they viewed in music.
Also no one is saying that sexy portrayals of people or fan service is bad. The real problem is when certain forms of entertainment ONLY portray certain sexes as fan service, even when no practical or character reasons exist to do so.
I think Paizo actually does a pretty good job in the way it portrays women. Yeah, there is Seoni, who definitely caters to fan service, but then you have iconics like Seelah or Kyra that are conservatively/practically dressed. You can definetly have sexy female characters without running into the problems discussed in earlier posts.
Saying that "X culture" is worse than "Y culture" regarding bigotry, portrayals of women, etc. sets up a false dichotomy. That we don't have to worry about Y as long as there are problems in X. If we apply this philosophy, nothing would ever get done.
Yeah, their is a lot of vile things in say the music industry that poorly represent women, and might influence a wider number of people. But we can look at the way women are portrayed in gaming without ignoring how they viewed in music.
Also no one is saying that sexy portrayals of people or fan service is bad. The real problem is when certain forms of entertainment ONLY portray certain sexes as fan service, even when no practical or character reasons exist to do so.
I think Paizo actually does a pretty good job in the way it portrays women. Yeah, there is Seoni, who definitely caters to fan service, but then you have iconics like Seelah or Kyra that are conservatively/practically dressed. You can definetly have sexy female characters without running into the problems discussed in earlier posts.
It's not a "false dichotomy" to bring up the prevalence of sexism in culture at large in the context of a gaming discussion on the same.
It's "perspective."
The point of perspective is to help determine where the problem really lies.
"Cleaning up our corner" is a nice concept, but no amount of cleaning it up is going to do any good if the street corner keeps getting inundated by a flood of garbage from the streets.
If you all want to make this a holy crusade, knock yourself out. I simply do not agree that gaming is some sort of hotspot of gender inequity and prejudice. In fact in my experience it's been far less so than many other activities I am exposed to.
I heartily encourage people to exercise mutual respect in all endeavors, so efforts to maintain civility between genders is a good thing. But for gaming to cast ITSELF as some sort of gender cesspool that is in desperate need of cleansing is not only untrue in my opinion, but it is counter-productive because such efforts generally create their own backlash (such as this very thread) which then become "evidence" of the very problem that is supposedly being fixed.
I think the character in gaming would also be stronger than cheerleaders and more of a fight. Although now I have a scene of adventurers running out of a burning tavern and also saving some people and I would not care if they are in their underwear that still is heroic.Do you either live in arkansas or talk about gaming with someone who does?
That scene has played out in at least two games before short of the fact the dwarves paladin slept naked.
No I do not.
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I know that this won't add to the current direction of the thread, but it does have somewhat to do with the overall topic.
(I do have to idly wonder though how often males consider crossing the street because a possibly threatening-looking group of women are approaching on the same stretch of sidewalk.)
Where I'm from... fairly regularly.
I'm not joking.
A large percentage of men, myself included, actually do like images of "hawt, scantily clad heroines" in our entertainment.
It's not the liking images of attractive women that makes someone sexist.
I heartily encourage people to exercise mutual respect in all endeavors, so efforts to maintain civility between genders is a good thing.
If you do believe this, wouldn't you want to know when it isn't happening?
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I simply do not agree that gaming is some sort of hotspot of gender inequity and prejudice. In fact in my experience it's been far less so than many other activities I am exposed to.
Have you ever experienced being a woman on a service like Xbox Live? Check out this website. (NOTE: NSFW language.)
I realise you might be talking just about the content of games, but the culture of gaming is just as bad - and is wholly part of the problem we have to solve. Many companies, after all, see the people sending these messages as their primary market.
The reason that these people act this way is not the fault of games in their entirety, but it's certainly not helped by the sexualisation and poor depictions of women in games as a whole.
It's impossible for one person to solve sexism in one swoop, but we can certainly attack little parts of it at a time. That doesn't mean that video gaming is more or less important than eradicating it from other subcultures or the larger cultural context at large... it just means that there are some (hopefully many!) of us that want to see it gone from one of our hobbies in particular. It's a nice start.
Hopefully there is a movement in the hip-hop culture about the empowerment of women as well. Unfortunately as someone who knows approximately nothing about it, I can't personally do much!
I simply do not agree that gaming is some sort of hotspot of gender inequity and prejudice. In fact in my experience it's been far less so than many other activities I am exposed to.Have you ever experienced being a woman on a service like Xbox Live? Check out this website. (NOTE: NSFW language.)
I realise you might be talking just about the content of games, but the culture of gaming is just as bad - and is wholly part of the problem we have to solve. Many companies, after all, see the people sending these messages as their primary market.
The reason that these people act this way is not the fault of games in their entirety, but it's certainly not helped by the sexualisation and poor depictions of women in games as a whole.
It's impossible for one person to solve sexism in one swoop, but we can certainly attack little parts of it at a time. That doesn't mean that video gaming is more or less important than eradicating it from other subcultures or the larger cultural context at large... it just means that there are some (hopefully many!) of us that want to see it gone from one of our hobbies in particular. It's a nice start.
Hopefully there is a movement in the hip-hop culture about the empowerment of women as well. Unfortunately as someone who knows approximately nothing about it, I can't personally do much!
Your post raises the question (yes, it's a bit chicken/egg) do you think gaming content or gaming culture came first? Either way, speaking as a guy who wasted nearly 3 years of his life playing WoW, the end result is horrible.
Yes, AD, I'm talking about video games/MMOs, because that's the thread topic.
In my opinion the reason I like "scantly-clad" women is because they have such an awesome body in comparison to guys and can get more attention and admiration about it then men. Many men have to work out alot to look good and many times when they do achieve having a nice body, its difficult to keep and generally doesn't catch the eye like a woman's body. while you can assume I'm saying this in a sexist manner, what I really like most is for the woman to have a brain behind that face.
I myself don't like the image when it is portraying a woman in a subjugated or lesser manner, but love it when the woman is showing off her physical ad mental powers saying "I can dress like this because I'm fit and can compete with you in any battle wits, brains, or even pummeling a guy to the floor because he touched me in a manner I dislike."
in any rate, while some can debate the image having a negative connotation, it all depends on the scantly-clad woman herself. if she is portrayed as subjugated or dumber then the men around her, then the image is a negative one that shouldn't be used. if the woman is shown to be a strong, intelligent woman with skills equal or greater then the men around her then i say go for it and have fun within the limits the character herself would go for.
Strong Woman=Okay
Weak Woman=Sexist
Alice, I have a daughter who was into games. I created a World of Warcraft account and an XBox Live account and created a female persona specifically to see what sort of "sexist" behavior I might expect her to be subjected to.
Based on conversations like those in this thread and on these boards I was expecting the worst. I was expecting all sorts of pickup lines and sexist jokes and other sexist behavior.
I was quite pleasantly surprised to discover that there was virtually none of that behavior in either environment. I played a female night-elf in WoW and took her all the way up to raiding in a guild. I did random roaming around the world, ran through instances with the guild, ran through instances and raids all the way through defeating the Lich King.
In the end I was satisfied that it was a safe environment for my daughter and she played for years and never once indicated any gender related issues.
Can I ask which realm you were on? I had similar toon (female night elf hunter) on Antonidas, and if was a fricken horror show. Full disclosure, I'm on the east coast, and it's a west coast server, so the shift change was odd.
But yeah, there were many times that I, as a middle aged bachelor thought, "You're 11 years old and playing this game? Your parents just don't know what they're doing."
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In my opinion the reason I like "scantly-clad" women is because they have such an awesome body in comparison to guys and can get more attention and admiration about it then men. Many men have to work out alot to look good and many times when they do achieve having a nice body, its difficult to keep and generally doesn't catch the eye like a woman's body. while you can assume I'm saying this in a sexist manner, what I really like most is for the woman to have a brain behind that face.
I myself don't like the image when it is portraying a woman in a subjugated or lesser manner, but love it when the woman is showing off her physical ad mental powers saying "I can dress like this because I'm fit and can compete with you in any battle wits, brains, or even pummeling a guy to the floor because he touched me in a manner I dislike."
in any rate, while some can debate the image having a negative connotation, it all depends on the scantly-clad woman herself. if she is portrayed as subjugated or dumber then the men around her, then the image is a negative one that shouldn't be used. if the woman is shown to be a strong, intelligent woman with skills equal or greater then the men around her then i say go for it and have fun within the limits the character herself would go for.
Strong Woman=Okay
Weak Woman=Sexist
So, is "Strong Man = ok, Weak Man = sexist" too? If it's bad to show weak women, is it bad to show weak men?
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Off topic, but if you want to live and work in Japan someday, I'd recommend trying out for the JET Program (Japanese Exchange and Teaching). That's how I was able to live there, you team-teach English with Japanese teachers in the public schools. It's sponsored by the Japanese govt itself, and is very well organized.
Continued derail: JET is much better than those that came over privately. Those people often got screwed. You're more likely to end up in a larger city, maybe, but the support I heard about was not really there.
And hello, fello JET!
Can I ask which realm you were on? I had similar toon (female night elf hunter) on Antonidas, and if was a fricken horror show. Full disclosure, I'm on the east coast, and it's a west coast server, so the shift change was odd.
But yeah, there were many times that I, as a middle aged bachelor thought, "You're 11 years old and playing this game? Your parents just don't know what they're doing."
For WoW I was on two servers, one was a "role playing" server and I forget its name, but I didn't play there much. The other was Draenor (I think that's how it was spelled). I don't know where it was located.
I played for about two years, and the number of times anyone acted in a way that I thought was inappropriate for my teen daughter to experience was less than a handful.
I also had some male characters that I ran (but my female character was my "main") and my experience in terms of behavioral dynamics was that I was treated about the same for all of my characters except my gnome. For whatever reason my gnome was far more frequently condescended to, patronized or insulted than any of my other characters. Maybe it was that I just didn't play him as well.
Now, to be fair, I didn't play coy with my female night elf. She was all business and deadly as hell. It is quite possible that she even intimidated other players. I was just as direct and forceful playing her as I am here on these boards, so it's possible that other players may have intended to be fresh, but were put off by my attitude in playing her. I dunno. All I know is that I really had no problem in game by "being" a female.
So, is "Strong Man = ok, Weak Man = sexist" too? If it's bad to show weak women, is it bad to show weak men?In my opinion the reason I like "scantly-clad" women is because they have such an awesome body in comparison to guys and can get more attention and admiration about it then men. Many men have to work out alot to look good and many times when they do achieve having a nice body, its difficult to keep and generally doesn't catch the eye like a woman's body. while you can assume I'm saying this in a sexist manner, what I really like most is for the woman to have a brain behind that face.
I myself don't like the image when it is portraying a woman in a subjugated or lesser manner, but love it when the woman is showing off her physical ad mental powers saying "I can dress like this because I'm fit and can compete with you in any battle wits, brains, or even pummeling a guy to the floor because he touched me in a manner I dislike."
in any rate, while some can debate the image having a negative connotation, it all depends on the scantly-clad woman herself. if she is portrayed as subjugated or dumber then the men around her, then the image is a negative one that shouldn't be used. if the woman is shown to be a strong, intelligent woman with skills equal or greater then the men around her then i say go for it and have fun within the limits the character herself would go for.
Strong Woman=Okay
Weak Woman=Sexist
In terms of being scantly clad, I don't want to see either type of men. In terms of more clothed however, I say portray both men and woman, weak and strong in the way the NPC or PC should be in the eyes of the DM and Players.
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It's great that you didn't experience anything bad, Adamantine. Honestly! I'm one of the lucky ones who has not experienced much in the way of harassment online either. (Then again, I never played WoW or FPS games.)
However, that doesn't mean that the experiences of women like those who submit to FUoS and many more are invalid and that we shouldn't endeavour to do something about it.
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By the way, something I want to underscore...
Nobody is claiming that you are sexist for playing a game like Zelda.
Nobody is claiming that it's wrong to enjoy Super Mario Bros.
Nobody is claiming that we should totally change these games.
Nobody is claiming that these games are wrong, bad, invalid, or heck, even that they are largely sexist.
What people like Anita Sarkeesian are doing is simply pointing out that these games have problematic aspects, and maybe we should consider that when we make games in the future.
Recognising that your media (and pretty much all media DOES) has problematic aspects is not a way to guilt-trip you into stop enjoying it or somehow lessen that media in some way. It's simply a way to build awareness so that perhaps future media does not have that problematic aspect and/or become aware of the ways you act that may be influenced by the media you consume.
I LOVE the Zelda series. The Mario series. I enjoy sexy women too. But I'd also like to play an action-adventure game where the young heroic girl saves the prince. That's all.
FWIW I have played female characters in D&D and Pathfinder. I play with miniatures so I have had to locate and/or make miniatures for those female characters. I deliberately have avoided the "chainmail bikini" look and so looked for reasonably attired female miniatures and I never had any problem finding any.
Sure if I wanted a bikini clad druid I could have probably found one, but by the same token I see plenty of loin-cloth barbarians with shoulder armor for male miniatures too.
Now, I will admit that when looking for miniatures, I look for appealing ones, but none of my female character miniatures are overtly sexual in attire, pose or secondary sexual characteristics.
My most recent commercial miniature for my druid was "Shae, half-elven" by Steven Buddle. That was before I started creating my own miniatures for her. (Disclosure, the link is not my own paint job, although it is close. I'm not that good. But isn't that an awesome miniature?)
Personally...I think cleaning up the video game culture can only improve greater societal problems regarding sexism.
After all...nowadays a considerable portion of young males spend much of their formative years on video games, even more so then when I was growing up. Even if it makes a only few teens reconsider what they say/how they act to women, it will be an improvement.
Random replies:
No one says that you can't have weak male or female characters. The point though is that strong male/weak female shouldn't be the default.
I also like attractive women, because hey I am a heterosexual male. That's normal. On the other hand, I can play games/read comics/watch TV without constantly needing to ogle something. If I need to ogle something, there are more than enough places on the internet with that primary function.
Also...not sure where the idea comes from that women need to apply less effort than men to be attractive. Having been in many labs with female graduate students, it was almost always the female students who were more concerned about gaining a few pounds, and women are judged much more harshly than a guy for do so.
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What some of you are missing here is that heterosexual white male is percieved as the NORM in western society and most services/products are designed to (tacitly)conform to that being the norm.
Are they not the norm? Or did you mean that heterosexual white males are the norm and that companies concider that with retailing and target sales around their customers?
After all...nowadays a considerable portion of young males spend much of their formative years on video games, even more so then when I was growing up. Even if it makes a only few teens reconsider what they say/how they act to women, it will be an improvement.
There are findings suggesting that this has become more and more true as they are not being challenged in schools anymore, as well as not having equal opportunities to further themselves in or afterwards, essentually using gaming as an escape from a lot of the issues they face in real life, where they can be themselves and not need to worry about political correctness.
Are they not the norm?Well, not that I have noticed, but maybe that's just me.
I can't wait to see what TOZ has to say, you hippy!
@ Alice: I've heard that women outnumber men (within the margin of error) in the world population, and still get the short end of the stick, sociologically speaking. Am I wrong on that one?
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if you're a woman, then you're going to go through pain... period.
I don't know whether this was intentional or not, but I chuckled.
@ Alice: I've heard that women outnumber men (within the margin of error) in the world population, and still get the short end of the stick, sociologically speaking. Am I wrong on that one?
Wikipedia suggests that is broadly true (especially in Western countries) but not universally true. Although those numbers suggest that it's <1% difference anyway.
EDIT: Actually it looks like there are slightly more boys born than girls... but there are still more women than men in many countries...?
What some of you are missing here is that heterosexual white male is perceived as the NORM in western society and most services/products are designed to (tacitly)conform to that being the norm.Are they not the norm? Or did you mean that heterosexual white males are the norm and that companies consider that with retailing and target sales around their customers?
Mostly that males are considered the "target market." This is both because most Advertisers are male, and the, unsubstantiated, belief that it is easier to induce males to spend money with shallow advertising.
EDIT: Actually it looks like there are slightly more boys born than girls... but there are still more women than men in many countries...?
None the less, without artificial interference (a.k.a. Gendercide) by the time of adulthood, females should be about 52% of the population.
As far as I remember that's partly because boys are more fragile when they're babies and hence the girls catch up again. Then all the way through life men have higher mortality (I think due to riskier occupations along with weaker immune systems) until women not only catch up but overtake the male population as they age.
You underrate the importance of "Testosterone Poisoning" in these numbers. Men, especially younger men, sometimes have a problem with risk assessment.
This makes the Gendercide numbers even scarier.
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Mostly that males are considered the "target market." This is both because most Advertisers are male, and the, unsubstantiated, belief that it is easier to induce males to spend money with shallow advertising.
Considering that ~50% of the population is female, heterosexual white male cannot be the norm in any sort of statistical sense. That it is perceived as such is an unfortunate result of sociological and cultural factors.
Are we talking about the world or are talking about the population of the fan base here (for Pathfinder, video game culture, etc)?
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Also, according to this research, 40% of the video game market is women, and more 18+ year old women play than 17 or younger aged men. I would also hazard a guess that the percentage of male vs. female gamers will continue to equalise as time goes by. (Note that's a 2009 document, too. I think more recent data suggests it's much closer to 50% already.)
The majority white heterosexual male market for video games has been a delusion for a number of years and will increasingly become as such. Marketing to only 60% or less of your audience is terrible business sense. Alas, the AAA market is a lumbering behemoth that is resistant to change.
Are we talking about the world or are talking about the population of the fan base here (for Pathfinder, video game culture, etc)?
Both, really.
The world as a whole assumes the "default" is heterosexual white male. This filters into advertisement and so forth.
EDIT: This page says that 47% of the gaming market is female. That sounds like a more up-to-date figure.
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As far as I remember that's partly because boys are more fragile when they're babies and hence the girls catch up again. Then all the way through life men have higher mortality (I think due to riskier occupations along with weaker immune systems) until women not only catch up but overtake the male population as they age.
That's part of it, but a great deal of it is also attributed to the amount of female medical attention far surpassing males, and in general females tend to live longer than males, both because of lifestyle/medical treatment, and males also tend to take greater risks in employment than females, such as military, police, and fire-fighters. A small portion of it, (and less of a trend as well, really) is that males tend to live worse lifestyles than females, particularly in what they eat.
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Also, according to this research, 40% of the video game market is women, and more 18+ year old women play than 17 or younger aged men. I would also hazard a guess that the percentage of male vs. female gamers will continue to equalise as time goes by. (Note that's a 2009 document, too. I think more recent data suggests it's much closer to 50% already.)
The majority white heterosexual male market for video games has been a delusion for a number of years and will increasingly become as such. Marketing to only 60% or less of your audience is terrible business sense. Alas, the AAA market is a lumbering behemoth that is resistant to change.
Do you have the statistics and criteria for how thse results where found? I do not mean that to be rude, it just seems extremely, odd. For instance, it notes that 44% of played video games are Puzzle/Board/Game Show/Trivia/Card, which is probably more indicitive of Solitare and Facebook games rather than "the gaming community/culture", but only 23% pay to play games online. WoW made the top 5 games purchased (3 times), but Persistant MMO only accunts for 16% of the population of gamers, and Strategy/RPG's are a seperate 21%? Age of Conan, Warhammer, and again a 4th WoW follow in the top 10 most purchased games of that year.
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Not sure, I'd have a look around the ESA's website. Here's the 2012 version by the way - sorry about using an out of date one before, it was the only one I had on hand easily...
That one says "The 2012 Essential facts About the computer and Video game industry was released by the Entertainment Software Association (ESA) at E3 2012. The annual research was conducted by ipsos mediact for ESA. the study is the most in-depth and targeted survey of its kind, gathering data from more than 2,000 nationally representative households."
I don't think that paying to play games online conflicts with 44% of games being puzzle-etc. Consider the popularity of free games such as Angry Birds and Bejewelled, and of course things like Farmville where you DON'T have to pay to play online.
I think some of those other oddities might be explained with the fact that, for example, most people who play WoW would buy a given expansion, but not everyone who plays Strategy/RPGs is going to buy every single Strategy/RPG game that is released. So overall there will be more people playing a given genre, but the MMO "brand loyalty" per se is higher.
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By the way, something I want to underscore...Nobody is claiming that you are sexist for playing a game like Zelda.
Nobody is claiming that it's wrong to enjoy Super Mario Bros.
Nobody is claiming that we should totally change these games.
Nobody is claiming that these games are wrong, bad, invalid, or heck, even that they are largely sexist.
What people like Anita Sarkeesian are doing is simply pointing out that these games have problematic aspects, and maybe we should consider that when we make games in the future.
You say that, but I think a lot of people can reasonably infer a reason to be ... let's say, "touchy" here. If the argument runs
a) Games x, y, and z have some sexist elements to them.
and
b) Having sexist elements in game is BAD because it affects people in x,y,z ways
It's hard not to infer that
c) People who like games with sexist elements must be bad/sexist (to some degree).
I mean, one might ask: if there's nothing wrong with games being sexist - if, as you say, people can still enjoy Mario and Zelda and all that - then why is there a need for change?
These conversations tend to proceed poorly (IMHO) because people are not very specific about what action they want taken - I don't think it's deliberate, people often have an idea that they want things to change, but they don't know how, exactly. This vagueness leads to others inferring a great deal more than what's originally intended. If you just want more games with female protagonists, ok, great! Let's just be very clear and explicit about that.
But... if the problem is that you want "an action-adventure game where the young heroic girl saves the prince. That's all," then... well, get to programming, yes? What's stopping you from making those games? Start a kickstarter - I'm sure it will get the funding.
I think part of the backlash is the impression that some folks are asking others to change (or asking the forms of entertainment that they have enjoyed to change). And those folks don't see why they they (or their hobbies) should have to change... unless there's something wrong with them/their hobbies. Thus, we get defensiveness.
To my way of thinking, the best response to: "Man, I don't feel like there are enough good female characters in games" is to go MAKE the games you want to see - the marketplace isn't going to change all by itself. And hey, you might just win some fans while you're at it.
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I mean, one might ask: if there's nothing wrong with games being sexist - if, as you say, people can still enjoy Mario and Zelda and all that - then why is there a need for change?
Because I'd like to see diversity in the gaming industry. There's a need for change because people who are not okay with the status quo have nowhere (or at least a limited number of places) to look.
But... if the problem is that you want "an action-adventure game where the young heroic girl saves the prince. That's all," then... well, get to programming, yes? What's stopping you from making those games? Start a kickstarter - I'm sure it will get the funding.
Ah, right, the classic dismissal of someone's problems. "If you have a problem, go make your own game!"
Actually, I'm currently studying Computer Science, and the video game industry is one area I'm considering entering after I graduate. However, a AAA video game doesn't come from just one person. Even an indie game is hard-pressed to come from one person. I wouldn't be able to make music, for example. Or art and other visual assets.
EVEN IF I found a team of like-minded individuals and we started an indie studio and managed to cobble together our own creation AND managed to get it on platforms such as Steam and the like... such a game will likely not get widespread recognition. Not to mention will probably be much lower quality than what is produced by AAA studios with big budgets and big production teams. And that means little (and not so little) girls looking for their chance to save the prince will still struggle to find what they're looking for.
So all we can do is ask people who actually have a reasonable ability to put these changes into action to please consider doing so.
EDIT: It's not as if I'm asking for something ESOTERIC here. I'm not asking for a game about hermaphroditic cephalopods who go on a musical quest across a submerged galaxy. (that... sounds kind of fun, actually.) I'm asking for increased (and better quality) representation of the 47% and increasing number of women gamers.