Discussion thread for new blog entry Goblinworks Blog: Every Picture Tells a Story
Really like the character models. I especially like the variety of different capes and how they flow. I think the building levels are promising and the settlement template is looking good. The colored image with the 3 models detail is impressive, I dig the rogue type character, love the boots with the buckles :)
Can't wait to see these types face off in the pits! :p
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It looks like we're getting full sets of armor instead of individual sections. This follows with the PnP game but will there be options for fully visual representations of different cloaks, bracers, necklaces, boots, etc. along with the full armor sets?
Are backpacks, bags and pouches going to be available and will they be shown on the character models?
Will all armor, helmets, cloaks and other always be shown when worn or will there be a toggle to make them appear not to be? (Personally I'm against a toggle, I think it should show if you are wearing it but a lot of folks disagree.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Where the heck is Nihimon? Isn't he always first in these blog threads? :)
-Lisa
Wow... I'm at a loss for words.
I'm here, and I loved it, but I try not to post just to say "that's awesome". Perhaps that wasn't a good decision on my part, and the authors appreciate hearing from us even when all we have to say is "awesome!"
I was talking to my buddy at work about it, and I really, really like the heavy armor. I was a little worried about the actual faces and such, but was relieved to hear they were just default mannequins.
Now, to figure out how to keep my head from getting even bigger...
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I've been following the development of PFO for a while now, both on forums and through the blog, but this is the first time I've really chimed in.
I'm a little nervous about the female character designs so far. I know there's just been a few shown so far, but I'm really hoping for more options for cloth than skimpy sorceress and robe with a cleavage window.
I'm not saying those designs are horrible and shouldn't be included, as I know plenty of people on both sides of the gender divide like them, but just hoping for other options for those of us who would like our characters to be a bit more modest. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nice job GWs! Just from the images alone it definately gives off a good atmosphere. Im a big fan of a sort of dark and gritty look to a fantasy world. I havent seen enough that id call it dark, but it definately has that gritty feel. However, I also wouldnt mind it if it was dark as well ^.~
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Tessakc
Different people like different things. And I do hope they have plenty of options for gear/clothing. That being said, just to show you how much difference there is in opinions, I found the female character to be extremely conservative. Maybe Ive been over exposed to games like Tera?
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A couple of things...
Hopefully what we see are just models with full sets of gear and you can swap out clothing which would display on the character.
I've noticed the models are very muscular and that's fine. But I hope we will be able to make skinny characters and fat characters as we are rolling our characters. Certain games *cough* Wow *cough* offer no choice in proportion or body size.
Given the way the models colors are being adjusted, I'm wondering if we will have a system like they have in Rift where you have two areas in each piece of gear that you can dye? I like that system actually, it gives players lots of options for personalizing your character.
Gotta say again that I really like the "look" of the models, and echo Bluddwolf in saying that you've defeated the cartoon curse some games suffer under! :D
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@ DemonGrinder
I appreciate your understanding, but I don't think I quite got my point across. I'm not really worried about armored options, which the fully covered model was, as they're typically very practical and way better than many other current examples, and the thread on practical armor showed me that there was plenty of community support behind that same idea.
My main concern are regarding those concepts and models that have been wearing cloth armor. The first of which, the sorceress archetype from the early engine videos, didn't raise any flags with me because it was an archetype, and so I wouldn't expect them to change the design really.
With it followed up by the model with the cleavage window, and the concept art showing what appears to be the gender differences between a particular outfit, with the male male fully robed and the female appearing to have a cleavage window again (Third picture in the blog post), is where I start getting nervous.
However, I do understand that those designs are fine for plenty of people, even desirous, and I'm certainly not wanting to pull out the torch and pitchfork over this. I'm just hoping that in the final game there will be options for cloth that also fill more modest tastes, and that I wouldn't be embarrassed to show off to my daughter. :)
P.S. Sorry about the name change after post, realized after posting I hadn't updated it. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I should think that as time goes by and the art team has had the time to add variety that there will be fashions for many tastes. There have been two overly long threads arguing for and against immodest feminine attire.
I don't really think the sorceress in this set was exactly a tease either.
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Very nice indeed. I really like what I am seeing. I have never been one that has to have fantastic graphics in a game to enjoy it. I am just not that visual of a person. Hell, I played and really enjoyed RP in Minecraft for a couple of years. So, I am not that great of an art critic. But, this looks fantastic to me.
I was pleased to hear that gear may be player customizable during the crafting process. But, please don't make it changeable after the crafting process. If someone wants a particular look to their gear, they should have to commission a crafter to make it that way for them or craft it themselves.
I'm also interested to see building designs and progression for different races. I know that may be down the road after initial release, but it is a logical progression.
Well done Art Team and congratulations on the new jobs Andrew, Andrew and Cole.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A couple of things...
Hopefully what we see are just models with full sets of gear and you can swap out clothing which would display on the character.
I've noticed the models are very muscular and that's fine. But I hope we will be able to make skinny characters and fat characters as we are rolling our characters. Certain games *cough* Wow *cough* offer no choice in proportion or body size.
Given the way the models colors are being adjusted, I'm wondering if we will have a system like they have in Rift where you have two areas in each piece of gear that you can dye? I like that system actually, it gives players lots of options for personalizing your character.
Gotta say again that I really like the "look" of the models, and echo Bluddwolf in saying that you've defeated the cartoon curse some games suffer under! :D
Yeah lol, I want my fatman wizard.
But on a side note. I know they will do a great job with it. They are taking the time to make a sandbox game. Which I know is time consuming. If full character customization is not on release it wont bother me one bit.
The sandbox is the most important to begin with, the rest can come with time.
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However, I do understand that those designs are fine for plenty of people, even desirous, and I'm certainly not wanting to pull out the torch and pitchfork over this. I'm just hoping that in the final game there will be options for cloth that also fill more modest tastes, and that I wouldn't be embarrassed to show off to my daughter. :)
Seconded. The concepts in this picture from the blog, especially the left side of the third and last rows, are good examples of what I'd want any female bodied characters I make to wear.
The key word here is Options. :D
But on a side note. I know they will do a great job with it. They are taking the time to make a sandbox game. Which I know is time consuming. If full character customization is not on release it wont bother me one bit.
The sandbox is the most important to begin with, the rest can come with time.
I feel the same way. It's my first time being in on this level of development in a game, I'm really excited to be a part of PFO.
I really like the Pathfinder art style. Good work making it come alive guys! Would be amazing to get a demonstration of how it actually feels to play the game (animations from a player point of view) next.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Im going to chime in here and say that Im really happy with the way the look and feel is shaping up. Spent some time drooling over the first pic in the blog (the chart of model ideas) :D . I really like the 'quasi-real' feel of the armors so far.
Customisation options are definately important and Id agree with Urlord that they should be done via crafters and crafting skills.
All in all, Im a happy camper!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Looks awesome!
I really like the simplified look of the tavern and the different outfit models. Can't wait to see the tavern guy in action and other models for armor like chainmail and fur etc.
I really hope I can take my hood off even thought with such an amazing artwork it's trivial. The armor progression seems cool but it would be nice to have also top tier/high end armor really plain also.
I also hope you make different kinds of armor/weapon looks to suit different races ie a plate mail looking more dwarven made or an elven looking chainmail. I want my dwarf to wear an elven chain mail so I can laugh at him. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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The art is getting a thumbs-up over at Massively...good to see.
Might volunteer somebody to do a AMA on Massively or TenTonHammer....or Reddit. The Reddit page is pretty stale. May be good to stir the pot a little. (Easy for me to say. I'm not developing!)
Yes, massively-username: SpaceCobra, mentions an interesting thing:
Well, it looks pathfinder-y in the wardrobe and style. Not sure of the facial details. Pathfinder has this "American-wants-to-be-Manga-but-is-"off" : sorta artisitc feel to it; maybe it's all the same artist? Not sure they will try to pull that off or be "realistic", although this seems to be more on "realism". I know the article mentions specific artists, but will the 3-D character artist want to capture that or go their own way? I guess I need to see more detailed/final models.
Agree, achieving a natural look to the world it's set in is what impresses the most imo, the clothes look like the custom style and attire of the place for eg. That's subtle but persists so think they are doing a good job of "pathfinder-y". I agree with this comment, the flirting with manga: I'm not so sure I like it to be so pervasive. I prefer the "more on realism": More dramatic? Manga seems to add too much "cute" (a property in young off-spring to induce a feeling of nurturing) by odd proportions (non-adult morphology or hyper/atrophied-proportions) that don't seem to fit biomechanically but may therefore look more exotic?
Manga? Never heard of it until now. But after looking at a few images, I think SpaceCobra is on the sauce again cause I'm not seeing the relationship.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The character in the tavern reminds of something:
I would like to see characters take different kinds of standing poses after standing still for a while and not just loosely hanging their arms on the side of the body. For example: hands on waist, hands crossed on chest. Characters could also do some minor stretching moves.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Manga? Never heard of it until now. But after looking at a few images, I think SpaceCobra is on the sauce again cause I'm not seeing the relationship.
I think comparing Amiri and Cloud Strife is more in line with manga.
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I think comparing Amiri and Cloud Strife is more in line with manga.Manga? Never heard of it until now. But after looking at a few images, I think SpaceCobra is on the sauce again cause I'm not seeing the relationship.
God I hope the Devs don't take any cues from Manga! I bet most of their weapons are obscenely oversized. Not a fan of that sort of stuff. What I've seen from PF I've liked. Manga just seems too cartoonish for my taste.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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I've been following the development of PFO for a while now, both on forums and through the blog, but this is the first time I've really chimed in.
I think this is a legitimate concern and one I hope you'll remind us of if we're failing to deliver outfits that you find reasonable. There's always a balance between "desirable" and "exploitive" that can be hard to manage.
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Personally, I'm more comfortable with modest clothing, like this. It's not that I think women should wear modest clothing, it's just that was what always felt right to me, and it's a look that I find deeply appealing.
It took me quite a while to get used to the fact that my wife preferred to dress closer to this. I can certainly appreciate the look, but it was a little shocking.
As much difficulty as you have balancing "desirable" and "exploitative", I think you'll have just as much difficulty balancing "stifling" and "liberating". And I expect many of the most ardent fans of the more "liberating" looks will be the women themselves.
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I really liked the look of the settlements. I would really like to hear more about them in a future blog. Are settlements going to be designed so that they become specialized? For instance, you have a choice or path that you go down that prevents you from making other types of buildings (not in relation to alignment)?
The building of settlements and kingdoms was definitely the biggest selling point to me during the kickstarter.
Great blog!
I've been following the development of PFO for a while now, both on forums and through the blog, but this is the first time I've really chimed in.I think this is a legitimate concern and one I hope you'll remind us of if we're failing to deliver outfits that you find reasonable. There's always a balance between "desirable" and "exploitive" that can be hard to manage.
Now THAT'S something I've never seen a Dev post before! /applaud :)
I really like what I'm seeing so far. Like others, of course, I'm still hoping for fat/skinny characters, but if I have to settle for nice armor and paintings of goblin raids, I'll be pretty happy.
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Goblinworks
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Thanks for all of the comments and feedback!
I'll just reiterate what Ryan said with regard to the female clothing and equipment options. We want to hear your feedback and do our best to walk the line between 'desirable' and 'exploitative' as he puts it. We obviously have pretty tight limitations on how many assets we can produce initially, but in the long term we hope to provide lots of options. We have even been discussing the possibility of creating a player 'style' setting that would allow you to choose between more conservative or liberal looks. However, this has both a technology and very significant art asset production hit, so it would almost certainly have to come as a later option.
In the meantime, we are focused on making outfits that have some mid-range appeal. Additionally, we are trying to follow the rule of reason more than most games in the sense that we aren't treating bare female skin in armor suits like it has an apparent massive AC bonus ;). That doesn't mean we won't show some skin on both males and females, but it may correspond more directly to the level of armor of the suit. With robes, it is entirely about the decorative element, since they have no effect on AC. We will certainly try to provide a range of looks on them as well though. We're still working through a lot of the designs, so hearing your thoughts certainly helps shape our direction.
Ultimately we want to know what you think and want, and I'd specifically love to hear from more women who want to play female characters in the game... on either side of the liberal/conservative dress argument. I think we all want a more balanced male/female player base in the game, so my goal is to provide everyone options that makes them enjoy playing their character (keeping in mind our relatively small team and timeline).
Similarly, we definitely want to provide body variation customization options, but it's also a hit on the already very tight art production schedule and has some potential for technology development impact depending on how we do it. It's all a balancing act of trying to give you the most features we can with what time we have available, and our initial focus is on giving you great looking core gear and characters while still planning for the customization systems so we don't box ourselves into a corner where that is notably difficult.
We will definitely be detailing out more about settlement and structure customization and art in the future, so no worries on that front. We're all very excited about the way things are headed on that, and we think you will be too :)
Thanks again for the thoughts and feedback!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like how the look of it is shaping up. I am really interested in the ability to customize the color scheme's. I would like to finally be able to make my character different from everyone else....
The design of the establishments and buildings are also looking very good.
Keep up the good work..