| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No real solution, really, just looking to break the mood up a bit and see if we've come up with something more than slapping back and forth. The last few pages have been a little growly. Which, I guess, was the point of what I was saying: While I appreciate all the verbiage, is it going somewhere?And here I thought me and Berinor were being rather civil :p
I got a little snippy a few hundred posts ago and misdirected it, so I appreciate the need for periodic calls for breath.
Yeah a funny fact concerning this is that if you're Neutral aligned, all the celestial and fiendish creatures you summon with summon monster spells are also neutral. They're neutral-aligned celestials and fiends. This amusingly means that things like protection from evil and protection from good do diddly squat against celestial and fiendish creatures summoned by a Neutral aligned caster.
That's odd. I thought all this time that all those celestial and fiendish creatures being summoned were at least still having the Evil- or Good-Subtypes added to them. You know, due to being extraplanar beings. Meaning they would at least still interact with "Protection from -" spells on that basis, independent of their summoner-matching alignment.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It used to be that Protection From X spells protected you from all summoned creatures save for the alignment opposite the spells targeted alignment. So in 3.5, a Protection From Evil spell still allowed Good creatures to attack you. (Not sure why exactly, maybe so there was no argument about them being able to cast beneficial spells.) Pathfinder changed that to be the spell only protecting you from the mentioned alignment.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah a funny fact concerning this is that if you're Neutral aligned, all the celestial and fiendish creatures you summon with summon monster spells are also neutral. They're neutral-aligned celestials and fiends. This amusingly means that things like protection from evil and protection from good do diddly squat against celestial and fiendish creatures summoned by a Neutral aligned caster.That's odd. I thought all this time that all those celestial and fiendish creatures being summoned were at least still having the Evil- or Good-Subtypes added to them. You know, due to being extraplanar beings. Meaning they would at least still interact with "Protection from -" spells on that basis, independent of their summoner-matching alignment.
The celestial and fiendish creature templates don't add the Good/Evil subtype.
Rebuild Rules: Senses gains darkvision 60 ft.; Defensive Abilities gains DR and energy resistance as noted on the table; SR gains SR equal to new CR +5; Special Attacks smite evil 1/day as a swift action (adds Cha bonus to attack rolls and damage bonus equal to HD against evil foes; smite persists until target is dead or the celestial creature rests).
Rebuild Rules: Senses gains darkvision 60 ft.; Defensive Abilities gains DR and energy resistance as noted on the table; SR gains SR equal to new CR +5; Special Attacks smite good 1/day as a swift action (adds Cha bonus to attack rolls and damage bonus equal to HD against good foes; smite persists until target is dead or the fiendish creature rests).
And while creatures from evil planes usually have the [Evil] subtype, it's not an automatic or certain thing like the [Extraplanar] subtype is.
Evil Subtype: This subtype is usually applied to outsiders native to the evil-aligned outer planes. Evil outsiders are also called fiends. Most creatures that have this subtype also have evil alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has an evil alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the evil subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields are evil-aligned (see Damage Reduction).
However, as written, celestial and fiendish creatures don't have it (making them the exception to the "usually" part I guess). It also means their attacks aren't aligned as per the subtypes either.
So yeah, Neutral caster summons Neutral fiendish creatures.
Mind you, if you want "Dracula", you should probably do what I did and write your own template. Most of the "Dracula" story is pretty poorly done with the Pathfinder vampire template.
I wrote my own template because I liked the fluff of the vampire but I didn't want every vampire to be so strong. I wanted a vampire template that scaled better with level and allowed for weaker vampires who could eventually turn into old and really scary vampires in time, and I didn't think that the vampire spawn in Pathfinder did that well at all.
That reminds me, I haven't made yet, but I was thinking of reworking WoD vampire clans powers as choices for 1st level vampires.
The starting clan forces your innate power, but you get 1 per character level. Each would also get starting powers innate to vampires (stat buffs), fast heal, blood drain, etc.
But negative levels aren't because Dracula never did that (but you an choose it).
I'd rate Dracula as 5th easily. (no longer are vampire spawn a race, they are just weaker vampires).
Sunlight, burns vampires, but you can get a power that reduces tat in exchange for weakening you.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
so many posts... mainly as this is about creative decisions and everyone has a different idea.
Actually most people are arguing rules. I mean, we all know that everyone has different preferences flavour-wise and that we could all just houserule things away if we don't like them.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Mind you, if you want "Dracula", you should probably do what I did and write your own template. Most of the "Dracula" story is pretty poorly done with the Pathfinder vampire template.
I wrote my own template because I liked the fluff of the vampire but I didn't want every vampire to be so strong. I wanted a vampire template that scaled better with level and allowed for weaker vampires who could eventually turn into old and really scary vampires in time, and I didn't think that the vampire spawn in Pathfinder did that well at all.
That reminds me, I haven't made yet, but I was thinking of reworking WoD vampire clans powers as choices for 1st level vampires.
The starting clan forces your innate power, but you get 1 per character level. Each would also get starting powers innate to vampires (stat buffs), fast heal, blood drain, etc.
But negative levels aren't because Dracula never did that (but you an choose it).I'd rate Dracula as 5th easily. (no longer are vampire spawn a race, they are just weaker vampires).
Sunlight, burns vampires, but you can get a power that reduces tat in exchange for weakening you.
One thing I've been wanting to do for an upcoming campaign I promised to run my friend Raital was to create a subsystem for using the Con damage inflicting by vampires as a sort of fuel source for using vampire powers. I understand VtM does something like this with blood points.
I've not begun on it yet 'cause I'm working on the core rules we'll be using as #1 priority right now.
One thing I've been wanting to do for an upcoming campaign I promised to run my friend Raital was to create a subsystem for using the Con damage inflicting by vampires as a sort of fuel source for using vampire powers. I understand VtM does something like this with blood points.
I've not begun on it yet 'cause I'm working on the core rules we'll be using as #1 priority right now.
That reminds me of my idea of making it so vampires gain a point of constitution whenever they feed up to the highest it was when they were alive, and having that constitution simply act as a method of showing how well your pretending to be alive, which decreases either through ability damage/drain, time, or you spending it to fuel abilities. You also got an additional HP pool based on Con instead of Cha that lowers at the same time as your normal HP pool, but that only reflected how damaged your body is. But since generally their CHA HP pool will be higher than their CON HP Pool, they can end on with 0 CON HP and 20 CHA HP and look completely destroyed with a humanoid body made of darkness and blood remaining until you healed your CON HP.
I have to confess my long-term hope for this thread is for it to eventually fall off the boards from disuse. Then, a year from now, someone will post in it once more, and we can discuss whether the thread itself is now innately evil due to necromancy.
this thread will never die, at least until a mod gets tired of us
Why is using a spell to animate a whip made of leather considered fine, while animating a cow's corpse is evil.
This reminds me, animating corpses through animate object or creating a golem... not evil?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ashiel, your bullet points aren't "What we determined from the thread".
They are simply your package of unchanged opinions you came in with, and not all of them have unanimous agreement.
