Epic life oracle build critique and advise, please

[Choon]

Tom S 820 wrote:

Choon wrote:

On second thought, didn't I see a thread around here somewhere that decided that only NPC's could take Adept Channel?

Not that I know of... I never have seen feat for NPC only.

If I remember correctly some very strict RAW people were saying that Arcane bond doesn't give you an ability called "summon familiar", it gives you a familiar. Adepts were the only class that got a class feature called "summon familiar". Therefore only adepts could take the Adept Channel feat.

I can't seem to find the thread now
In any case, I'm looking over the other builds recently mentioned to see if the loss in caster level is worth it.

[Aelryinth]

james maissen wrote:

Aelryinth wrote:

My link-fu is almost as bad as my search-fu. I've seen the rule quoted several times here. I believe it was included in the most recent batch coming out by SKR?

Sorry, MU/C is showing my age. Cleric/Wiz lists.

==Aelryinth

Are you sure you're not confusing it with PFS?

This is a whole can of worms for them to open in general. Imagine you scribe a scroll but can't read it!

-James

Pretty sure. PFS has nothign about Item Creation at all.

How would you not be able to read it? The spell is still on your list. The magic item is simply made as if the spell was from the Wiz/Cleric list.

==Aelryinth

[Azelyan]

If he took Magical Knack has one of his traits, would he be able to take a 2 level dip in paladin and get an additional d6 for his channel still as a result?

[LazarX]

Azelyan wrote:

If he took Magical Knack has one of his traits, would he be able to take a 2 level dip in paladin and get an additional d6 for his channel still as a result?

Magical knack only boosts caster level for the purposes of spellcasting. It has no other effect.

[james maissen]

Aelryinth wrote:

Pretty sure. PFS has nothign about Item Creation at all.

How would you not be able to read it? The spell is still on your list. The magic item is simply made as if the spell was from the Wiz/Cleric list.

==Aelryinth

Read the rules on reading scrolls.

A 4th level paladin has CL1 and a divine scroll of lesser restoration would be CL 3. Said Paladin would also need an 11CHA to cast the spell, but a 12CHA to read the scroll. (There are more extreme examples, but this keeps with the familiar)

But please do try to find it. I'm thinking you are in error, and something with PFS has you confused. It's a mess that they refused to give up, and I'm saddened if Paizo was electing to go that way.

If they give it any attention they should revamp the entire thing. The idea that a charm monster can be deflected by a minor globe for one caster, and go through a full globe for another is somewhat silly in and of itself.

-James

[Kerebrus]

just read through the Life Oracle level 20 Final Revelation. That is some mighty sexy stack of immunities when walking around the dead. Too bad you cannot get both that and the Paladin save bonuses.

almost disappointing that the melee fighter is going tripping sadist of whips. So many sexy options to consider. In Pathfinder the full level 20 progression in one class is designed to be quite rewarding.

(Total Diversion, but with this level you could rock a Sorceror 4, Oracle 4, Mystic Theurge 10, Paladin 2, that is some macho CHA synergy.)

this Oracle wants to Dance with a level 8 (or higher) Undead Scourge Paladin. Truth.

[Choon]

Everything I've read about Mystic Theurge has said it's underwhelming at best. I agree that there is massive synergy there, but I'd loose out on many class skills and revelations, right?

Also, a very hearty Amen on that Undead Scourge Paladin dance.

[Azelyan]

I am actually starting a level 1 Aasimar Dual Cursed Life Oracle on Saturday. I could use some critics myself!

Stat array (18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 10)
Str: 10
Dex: 12
Con: 18 (16 + 2)
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 20 (18 + 2)

Feats:
1. Noble Scion (War)
3. Selective Channel
5. Alignment Channel (its been clear its gonna be a Zelda like adventure with lots of Undead and evil outsiders)
7. Improved Initiative
9. Angel Flesh
11. Angelic Wings
13. Toughness

15-19 don't know. Suggestions? Also I am contemplating whether or not I should try to go for Angelic Flesh/Wings or just try to get Celestial Armor/Full Plate and Celestial Shield. Some thoughts on that would be cool too. I am thinking the former as Celestial Shield would not allow me to cast spells!

[Kerebrus]

yes, Mystic theurge is underwhelming at the top - even at level 20 you'd only have level 7 spells. LOTS OF THEM.

talk to the other players. Add an Undead Scourge, some form of celestial sorcerer blaster of doom, and 20 levels of Wildshaped Huge Elemental Druid and I think the "backstory" writes itself. or maybe a Ranger with Favored Enemy Undead.

I would advocate an Archaelogist Bard - more handy than a rogue, and he has recruited the destroyers of undead to help him get to an artifact deep in undead territory....

or.
Oracle of Life
Paladin
Cleric
Inquisitor
--- This episode is called "Church Sanction, with Extreme Prejudice"

Frightening is what you can do with 20 levels of Alchemist. +6 Alchemical bonus to physical stats, +6 Enhancement bonus, and THEN you can start to get creative. and the Mutagen "only" last for 20 hours per day.

[Azaelas Fayth]

Level 7 Spells are not that bad when you have both the Sorc/Wiz and Clc/Ora Lists.

[Choon]

Azelyan wrote:

I am actually starting a level 1 Aasimar Dual Cursed Life Oracle on Saturday. I could use some critics myself!

Stat array (18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 10)
Str: 10
Dex: 12
Con: 18 (16 + 2)
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 20 (18 + 2)

Feats:
1. Noble Scion (War)
3. Selective Channel
5. Alignment Channel (its been clear its gonna be a Zelda like adventure with lots of Undead and evil outsiders)
7. Improved Initiative
9. Angel Flesh
11. Angelic Wings
13. Toughness

15-19 don't know. Suggestions? Also I am contemplating whether or not I should try to go for Angelic Flesh/Wings or just try to get Celestial Armor/Full Plate and Celestial Shield. Some thoughts on that would be cool too. I am thinking the former as Celestial Shield would not allow me to cast spells!

Sounds like a similar situation to mine. I had concidered taking racial feats, but I found Metamagics did so much for my versatility that I couldn't pass them up. I like that noble scion feat. But I wonder if fey foundling isn't better. With Life Link you're going to be taking 5 damage for every wounded party member in addition to whatever sneaks through to you from the enemy. Fey foundling helps mitigate that.

Then again, noble scion almost guarantees you going first. It's a tough call.

[james maissen]

Choon wrote:

It's a tough call.

I have a piece of general advice: have your DM make a sample encounter up for you all so that you have an idea of what you are getting yourself into...

This game changes many times as you level and what's good at one level can be useless in another.

-James

[Azelyan]

The only metamagic i deem worthy of a life oracle are extend spell for buffing and quicken spell. But I don't feel either are necessary. Also I too contemplated the dip in Paladin in order to boost my saves. How are you find its working for you? Is it worth doing? I also considered a 1 level dip in tattoo'd crossblooded sorcerer for verdant/destined Arcanas. But i dont know how often id be using personal spells.

Also you are right Fey Foundling is probably better then Noble Scion (War). I do want both though. I am gonna see if my GM will rule that I can take another without being level 1 :P.

[Choon]

Azelyan wrote:

The only metamagic i deem worthy of a life oracle are extend spell for buffing and quicken spell. But I don't feel either are necessary. Also I too contemplated the dip in Paladin in order to boost my saves. How are you find its working for you? Is it worth doing? I also considered a 1 level dip in tattoo'd crossblooded sorcerer for verdant/destined Arcanas. But i dont know how often id be using personal spells.

Also you are right Fey Foundling is probably better then Noble Scion (War). I do want both though. I am gonna see if my GM will rule that I can take another without being level 1 :P.

For me, the paladin dip is awesome, but I'm starting at 21 so I don't have to suffer through low levels with -2 caster levels worth of spells known. I envisioned them being taken first for story reasons. If I had to play 1-21 I would probably either take them first for heavy armor and martial survivability or at the end for the crazy defence boost. (and it is crazy). With maxed Cha and items my saves are easily into the 30's if not 40's.

To do both legally, you could do one lvl of fighter at lvl 1, but that probably hurts you more than it helps in the end. I would just ask your DM.

As for the sorceror lvl dip, if I were to give up Holy Vindicator I would probably go that route to boost my heals, but that dip is story driven and is giving me too much AC to pass up (+16 sacred bonus w/ phylactary). Again, I'm starting at 21 so my choices probably don't reflect the most effective 1-21 build.

[james maissen]

Choon wrote:

Again, I'm starting at 21 so my choices probably don't reflect the most effective 1-21 build.

There are items that advance sorcerer bloodlines and the like, see if there is one for Oracles and if not ask your DM if he would allow one.

Otherwise I'd keep the build. Certainly the dip into Paladin, the saves are worth it.

I would go with stealth still, as I see you as building a defensive support PC and it will go along way.

I'd take spell perfection with heal, and try to talk your DM into letting you have both dual cursed and seeker archetypes.

-James

[Choon]

The problem with stealth is my shield shines like a torch when I use it's AC buff and I shine myself like a medium fire elemental when in Energy Body form. Not the most condusive to hiding.

[james maissen]

Choon wrote:

The problem with stealth is my shield shines like a torch when I use it's AC buff and I shine myself like a medium fire elemental when in Energy Body form. Not the most condusive to hiding.

Well hellcat stealth will have you hide in bright light, so there's not a problem there. Where does it say that your shield glows?

I'm not really set on energy body, but it is better than life link.

You did pick up life sight at least, right?

If your DM will let you do both dual and seeker, then you should only have channel, life sight, and one other which I guess could be energy body (though I kinda like a cure light wounds healing 1d8+24 or so it's not a big deal at your level).

There's also a feat that makes someone reroll by sacing a spell figure that should be your final feat.

-James

[Choon]

I was mistaken, the shield does not glow. Hmm, that's handy.

Yes, I did get life sight.

That feat you're referring to us called divine interference, I think. I grabbed that too.

Now I want to take a look at stealth again as I realize my shield won't be constantly glowing.

[LazarX]

Tom S 820 wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Tom S 820 wrote:

Benefit: You gain the channel energy class feature, as a cleric, usable 2 times per day. This ability otherwise functions like the cleric’s channel energy ability, except that your effective cleric level is equal to your divine spellcasting class level –3. Unlike a cleric, however, the number of times per day you may channel energy is not affected by your Charisma modifier.

He gets Channel as an available revelation anyway as a Life Oracle. And given that he's going to have a skyhigh Charisma...

Channel (Su): You can channel positive energy like a cleric, using your oracle level as your effective cleric level when determining the amount of damage healed (or caused to undead) and the DC. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier.

The whole point is spend 1 feat to get 2 more turn per day to save spells. So spell are used what they are ment for not healing. Or 2 more channel per day to hurt undead. Shoot it may be worth it to go Paladin 4th/Oracle 16th /Holy Vindicator 1st. Just for more channels.

Shoot after looking at Holy Vindicator can stack with both paladian and cleric channel pool and raise caster level thier by raising all 3 channel pools it strong Prestige class.

Buy going Paladian 5th/ Oracle 6th/ and Holy Vindicator 10.

Spell Casting Oracle 13 with 7th level spells
BaB of +19 Fort of +10 Reflex +7 Will +11 Base line
Lay on Hands 7 times +CHA for 7 dice
Oracle Channel 1+CHA for 8 dice
Adepet Channel 2 times for for 5 dice* 6 dice if +2 caster level trait Magical nack is taken.
So at then end of the Day it Channel 10 time per day +2 times CHA mod. Than is a ton of channels. Welcome to spam Channel vs undead

But in exchange you're giving up access to some really nice 8th and 9th level spells such as Divine Vessel , Mass Heal (the ultimate healing/mass undead damage channel), True Ressurection, Fire Storm and Summon Monster 9. As well as a couple of Revelation slots including your capstone.

[Choon]

Indeed. I'm definitely going to want that capstone, and soon. Thankfully this campaign should last until late 20's so I'll definitely see that sexiness.

[Choon]

Iteration part 2 build:
Dual Cursed (Deaf/(Undecided), deaf advancing) Aasimar Oracle (Life) 18, Paladin 2 (Oath against Undead), Holy Vindicator 1
Traits: Magical Knack, Sacred Conduit
Stats: 14, 16, 16, 14, 14, 20 (Rolled, lucky me)
With equipment, lvls, racial alternate and age bonus my cha will be at 46 (+18) and my dex/con at 22
Favored class into Channel Revelation for 15d6 base, 17d6 w/phylactary
Dual Cursed gives me free Silent Spell, scent, Tremorsense 30 ft.
I also get the Misfortune and Fortune Revelations from it.
CL is 21 because of Trait and an Ioun Stone.

Level Breakdown:

1/p1: Detect Undead, Aura of Good, Smite Evil (1/day) [Skill focus:Know religion]
2/p2: Divine Grace, Lay on Hands (1d6, 19/day)
3/or1: Mystery: Life, Oracle's Curse, Orisons, Revelation: Channel (19/day, DC 39) [Selective Channel]
4/Or2: Mystery Spell: Ill Omen
5/Or3: Revelation: Enegy Body (18rd/day)[Alignment channel]
6/Or4: Mystery Spell: Oracle's Burden (want a good curse for this one)
7/Or5: Dual Cursed: Misfortune [Heighten Spell]
8/Or6: Mystery Spell: Bestow Curse
9/Or7: Revelation: Enhanced Cures [Eldritch Heritage:Arcane Bond]
10/Or8: Mystery Spell: Restoration
11/Or9: [Divine Interference]
12/Or10: Mystery Spell: Breath of Life
13/Or11: Revelation: Spirit Boost [Still Spell]
14/Or12: Mystery Spell: Heal
15/Or13: Dual Cursed: Fortune [Greater Eldritch Heritage: Metamagic Adept]
16/Or14: Mystery Spell: Greater Restoration
17/Or15: Revelation: Combat Healer (4/day) [Quicken Spell]
18/Or16: Mystery Spell: Mass Heal
19/Or17: [Improved Channel: channel DC 41]
20/Or18: Mystery Spell: True Resurection
21/HV1: Channel energy, Vindicator's shield

Summary Feats:

1. Skill focus (Know:religion)
3. Selective Channel
5. Alignment Channel
7. Heighten Spell
9. EH: Arcane Bond
11. Divine Interference
13. Still Spell
15. EH: Metamagic Adept
17. Quicken Spell
19. Improved Channel
21. Force Channel

Important Equipment:

-Staff of the Heirophant (+2 luck to AC and Saves)
-Otherworldly Kimono (+4 Saves, +6 with trapped creature)
-Tome of Leadershp and Influence
-Headband of mental prowess +6 (Cha/Wis)
-Belt of Physical Might +6 (Dex/Con)
-Dusty rose Prism Ioun (+1 AC)
-Orange Prism Ioun (+1 CL)
-Ring of Protection +5
-Phylactary of Positive energy channeling (+2d6)
-Mantle of Immortality (no physical aging effects)
-Ring of Revelations (custom crafted, Side Step secret, Air barrier)
- +5 Animated Defiant (+2 AC vs undead) Mithral Heavy Shield

With paladin bonus and gear my saves are 38/49/47 (+2 if my kimono has something captured) and my 16 channel dice can boost AC with the Vindicator's shield which means AC is 81/52/63 (+2/0/2 vs undead) until I'm hit. Then it drops to 65/36/47 until I can bring it up again as a Std. action.
My 9th Lvl spell DC is 37.

Spells:

[x]= from class features.
1-[ Ill omen, CLW] prot. Evil, divine favor, command, bless, hide from undead
2- [oracle's burden, cure moderate] Lesser Restoration, consecrate, Pilfering Hand, shield other, Spear of Purity
3- [bestow curse, cure serious] Dispell magic, Shield of Faith, Archon's Arua, Searing Light
4- [Restoration, Cure critical] holy smite, air walk, Death ward, Freedom of Movement
5- [breath of life] mass cure light, wall of stone, fickle winds, true seeing, undeath ward
6- [heal] Blade Barrier, Dispell (greater), Geas/Quest
7- [restoration(greater)] Repulsion, Destruction, Jolting Portent (DC 38)
8- [mass heal] Euphoric Tranquility, Summon Monster VIII
9- [true res. ] Miracle

I haven't had time to change this around much, and my selection will depend greatly on what my other party members can bring to the table, so this is better tweaked at a later date

I'm not 100% certain that my math is correct here. I think it is, but those are some stupid high numbers so feel free to double check if you suspect shenanigans. I won't mind.

[Azelyan]

I dont know why but my oracle took Legalistic for flavor reasons as one of my curses. a truth telling paladin/oracle? Sounds about right. and Tongues to learn Aklo language.

Any specific reason as to why you took Heightened Spell? Extend Spell in my opinion trumps it in every way for an oracle.

My GM has ruled that I can convert phylactery of positive channeling to gloves. So I am going to use the head slot to grab a halo of menacing down the road!

[Choon]

Azelyan wrote:

I dont know why but my oracle took Legalistic for flavor reasons as one of my curses. a truth telling paladin/oracle? Sounds about right. and Tongues to learn Aklo language.

I took deaf for the tremor sence and scent. I get Darkvision from Aasimar.

Any reason for Aklo other than flavor?

Quote:

Any specific reason as to why you took Heightened Spell? Extend Spell in my opinion trumps it in every way for an oracle.

I have a bunch of 9th level spells per day and only two spells of 9th level, both of which require expensive material components. I thought I could heighten lower level spells like Bestow Curse and Euphoric Tranquility to get the 9th level DC's and such. Extend is a big contender now that I really think about it. I may give up Force channel for that and take Spell Perfection at lvl 23. Not sure which spell to perfect, but I don't have to decide that now.

Also, later, I could heighten spells into the 10th level slots I'll get.

Quote:

My GM has ruled that I can convert phylactery of positive channeling to gloves. So I am going to use the head slot to grab a halo of menacing down the road!

Sweet. I may ask if I can do the same. Though I'd try to argue for the eyes slot, personally. I already have several options for the hands.

[Azelyan]

idk Aklo seems to fit. His languages: Sylvan/Common/Celestial/Draconic. Aklo is the dark fey language. Having him utter things in that language seems to fit the 4 he already knows. Agathian-Blooded Aasimar get a vonus lanuage (Draconic), and I have 1 int modifier (Sylvan).

My first 4 feats have been altered:

1 - Fey Foundling
3 - Selective Channel
5 - Alignment Channel
7 - Toughness (cause life is fun)

After that point I have no idea where I am going with the build. Lots of options with Angel Blood/Wings. Or improving channel abilities with feats. Going to wait and see what will be required of me. I think I am going to see what kind of gaps need to be filled in the game before i progress further :P!

[Choon]

Good idea. That's where I am too. I know the options I have available should my party need X, Y, or Z. I think that's the best I can do for now.

[WerePox47]

I would like to reiterate that channel force/imp. only allows u to push or pull creatures ur size or smaller and doesnt grant AoO's.. So you taking 2 feats to, on a failed save, push or pull(no AoO) a creature.. If its medium or smaller... There's so many feats that are better than this.. Quicken Channel for one will allow you to channel damage and cast a spell.. Or channel twice in the same round.. Greater Eldritch Heritage would give u access to a 4th, 6th, and 8th level arcane spell or ur choice.. Extra Revelation is never a bad idea.. Fey foundling is such a huge return in healing for 1 feat.. Self channel heals for 16d6+32 for example.. Thats 4 feats that are hands down better than the channel force stuff.. I mean i want it to be all star wars jedi cool as well, its just not...

[Tom S 820]

I mean i want it to be all star wars jedi cool as well, its just not...
It can be if you cast Divien Power to make you large first or your Wizard cast Enlarge Person on you.

[WerePox47]

The point is that a feat that requires u to have a spell effect going before it works(somtimes), isnt good.. Esp. when theres much better options for said 2 feats.. Bottom line its his guy and if he wants a "maybe" work feat if 2 specific criteria are meet than thats his choice..

[Choon]

I have to agree with you. I really wanted to be a Jedi, but there is a very good chance that few enemies we encounter will be medium.
I have since switched it out for something else I wrote down but can't remember right now.
I think it was extend spell.
Thanks for leading the blind around the trap.

[Valmoon]

I never did post what the chest piece was...

Chest piece of faith = 5DR/evil