Goblin Squad Member
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1. Will Wizard Specializations each be a separate Role?
The recent discussion on Druid Roles got me thinking about this. I want the decision to choose a particular Specialization School - or to be a Generalist - to be meaningful.
The most obvious way I can see to do this is to treat each Specialization - or Generalist - as a separate Dedication bonus. However, if it's just a question of swapping out a Weapon Set to change Specializations, then there needs to be some gating mechanic to keep every Wizard from getting every Specialization right away.
Ideally, I'd love to see each Specialization be its own full Role, but that's probably prohibitively costly in terms of development.
I'd love to hear from the devs if they have any ideas along these lines yet.
2. Is it possible to make a Defensive Wizard?
This is as much a question about PFRPG as it is about PFO.
In most games, Wizards are "glass cannons" that can pour out damage, but can't take a hit. I know PFO will be breaking some of these stereotypes anyway, but I've always wanted to build a Wizard that uses his magic to make himself harder to kill, even if that costs him firepower.
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Goblin Squad Member
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2. Is it possible to make a Defensive Wizard?
This is as much a question about PFRPG as it is about PFO.
In most games, Wizards are "glass cannons" that can pour out damage, but can't take a hit. I know PFO will be breaking some of these stereotypes anyway, but I've always wanted to build a Wizard that uses his magic to make himself harder to kill, even if that costs him firepower.
In the RPG, it is very possible to create defensive mage, and it's the specialization of the Abjuration School. You can focus on protective spells as early as level one. Spells like Shield, Protection from Arrows, Protection from Energy, Stoneskin, Globe of Invulnerability, and Anti-Magic Field are all focused on defense against specific sources of damage or magic.
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Goblin Squad Member
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1. Will Wizard Specializations each be a separate Role?
The recent discussion on Druid Roles got me thinking about this. I want the decision to choose a particular Specialization School - or to be a Generalist - to be meaningful.
The most obvious way I can see to do this is to treat each Specialization - or Generalist - as a separate Dedication bonus. However, if it's just a question of swapping out a Weapon Set to change Specializations, then there needs to be some gating mechanic to keep every Wizard from getting every Specialization right away.
Ideally, I'd love to see each Specialization be its own full Role, but that's probably prohibitively costly in terms of development.
I'd love to hear from the devs if they have any ideas along these lines yet.
2. Is it possible to make a Defensive Wizard?
This is as much a question about PFRPG as it is about PFO.
In most games, Wizards are "glass cannons" that can pour out damage, but can't take a hit. I know PFO will be breaking some of these stereotypes anyway, but I've always wanted to build a Wizard that uses his magic to make himself harder to kill, even if that costs him firepower.
Good questions Nihimon! I'd love for #1 to be implemented, as it will allow diversity within the "class", though I do think some specialization will be less likely to have many players choosing them, such as Diviners, while others, like Evokers, will be popular simply because of the relative strengths and weaknesses.
As for #2, I have been playing Wizard-type PC's in various PnP games since the old Red and Blue boxes (33+ years ago), and I have always tried to blend defensive buff spells and offensive spells. PFRPG makes this easy, as it has a good number of buffing spells, along with a good number of damaging spells. Depending upon how many spells a "Wizard class" PC has access to (given the limitations of PfO not being part of the D20 OGL, it will allow GW to increase the number of spells any spell casting "class" can cast based upon skills trained), you could have a fair number of defensive buffing spells, offensive buffing spells and damaging spells. Judicious use of the equivalent of Mage Armor, Shield, and Cat's Grace is a nice combo before entering combat. Add in the equivalent of Stone Skin when you are skilled enough and you have a really good shot of surviving even melee. An Elven "Wizard" typically has access to melee weapons and missile weapons (bows), so this works well for such a PC (and is just about every PC I play in PnP games).
It'll be interesting to see how GW deals with arcane and divine spell casters since they can't match PFRPG exactly. I hope that, given this is an MMO, more spell slots are available to these casters than in the PnP games, especially since ability stats won't be used to adjust the number of spells castable by such PC's. This should be a fun topic. :)
EDIT: And Ninja'd because I type too slowly LOL
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Goblin Squad Member
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Good questions Nihimon! I'd love for #1 to be implemented, as it will allow diversity within the "class", though I do think some specialization will be less likely to have many players choosing them, such as Diviners, while others, like Evokers, will be popular simply because of the relative strengths and weaknesses.
I could really see Diviners being a great option for settlements wishing to be competitive in Market and Warfare. Information is vital, and Diviners are very good at providing it. Also, a high level Diviner is almost NEVER surprised, so having one along on a wagon train might be very useful for avoiding bandits.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I could really see Diviners being a great option for settlements wishing to be competitive in Market and Warfare. Information is vital, and Diviners are very good at providing it. Also, a high level Diviner is almost NEVER surprised, so having one along on a wagon train might be very useful for avoiding bandits.
Good questions Nihimon! I'd love for #1 to be implemented, as it will allow diversity within the "class", though I do think some specialization will be less likely to have many players choosing them, such as Diviners, while others, like Evokers, will be popular simply because of the relative strengths and weaknesses.
This is likely true, but until we know the extend of divination spells and what Diviners can do within PfO, it is hard to know if this will prove to be the case. Alas, it also would still likely be a limited choice for most, as many players would likely, in a PvP rich experience, go for damaging type spell casters over ones who can potentially see danger. It will really depend upon if GW can make use of opposition schools, or if any specialist has open access to other schools, given GW doesn't have access to the OGL per Lisa's post in another thread. Id a Diviner can also load up on Evocation spells, then yes, they will be popular. If, on the other hand, they have limited access to combat spells, even if the Diviner has a good reason to be played, I don't see many playing them. Perhaps I am jaded from so many years of Theme-park MMO's where 99% of players choose to play power characters over other types. In DDO, as one example, most Wizards go Pale Master route, as it is more powerful than the Archmage route, given self heals and good to excellent damage spells. Spells themselves are almost always some defensive and most damaging with just a handful of utility ones used on a regular basis, even though the game has many spells. If this thinking caries over to PfO, then expect a lot of Envokers and few other specialists. I hope I am wrong, I truly do, but as of right now we know too little of the "Wizard" skill tree to know one way or the other. I hope we'll soon see a blog dealing with skill trees of all the possible archetypes, from the various adventuring "classes" to all of the NPC type ones. We have some, minor, knowledge of Crafters, but not a lot of specifics, and next to nothing on any other archetypes.
That being said, I do agree that merchants and merchant companies should try and induce players to have both Diviners and Abjurists as members to scry out trade routes and protect caravans, respectively. We'll just have to wait till a Blog answers some of these questions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As for opposition schools, you can choose the two schools you want, so you could just not choose evocation as an opposition school. Even if it is an opposition school, that just means it takes two spell slots to cast. We still don't know what kind of spell list we will have in game though, but if we go to a spell point system instead of spell slots, which is a safe bet, then opposition school spells should only cost double spell points.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Was it the ultimate magic book that had the key word based magic? That was a pathfinder only property I believe and would fit well in an MMO. I believe you created your spells by picking your properties [range] + [area of effect] + [type] = spell, I think? So picking keywords like [long range] + [medium burst] + [fire] = fireball. With that system you could recreate most if not all of the classic spells at near the same spell level and allthough you could in effect have all the spells from the OGL keeping with the generic format above, calling a spell by its keywords and allowing PCs to name them whatever they wish when entering them into spellbooks, may kill any legal issues.
Plus specializations could lower the casting level of a spell and keywords from an oposition school could be increased in caster level. Also each keyword could be a skill on the tree, so I think it would fit rather well in PFOs skill based training. Ie you if wanting to be a necromancer could train in skills that add to your specialization, while ignoring keywords in the illusion school to further get ahead in the necro tree.
I really liked that system from what I remember, it would allow for specializations, perhaps someone who is better versed in the system could be more than I have been, but I honestly hope they have a system such as this in game, even if it strays from the core book it can still keep with the pathfinder flavor.
I'm wondering how they could implement spells in the divination area like clairvoyance , scrying, spells that show "safe" routes or reveal "safe" locations. How would the game work that out and present it in a format players can use?
It might not be as difficult as I'm envisioning?
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Goblin Squad Member
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It would be tricky to balance anything like that against allowing bandit hideouts to remain at least somewhat hidden. Otherwise you'd just use it to find where their hideouts were and go raze them.
Scrying is a 4th level spell, Nondetection is a third level spell. If bandits want to keep hideouts safe from diviners, they should have a mage in the company to block them. Besides, scrying is limited. You can look at a person from any distance, but if you don't recognize the place where he is, then it's not useful in pinpointing the location.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The most obvious way I can see to do this is to treat each Specialization - or Generalist - as a separate Dedication bonus. However, if it's just a question of swapping out a Weapon Set to change Specializations, then there needs to be some gating mechanic to keep every Wizard from getting every Specialization right away.
How about...
..making specialization bonuses as merit badges/feats?Say Wizard 1 requires five 1st level spells, then Transmuter 1 would require four 1st level transmutation spells, Transmuter 2 would require Transmuter 1 plus additional transmutation spells, etc. in line with capstones->dedication thinking it should be allowed to specialize in multiple schools.
'Specialist X' would give a slottable specialization ability, but it cannot be slotted together with opposition school spells/abilities.
The gating mechanic is xp cost (i'm assuming every spell is a separate skill with xp cost). Following a single specialization is simply the fastest way to level up and unlock higher spell levels.
re: abjurers. The hands down most powerful PnP character I ever played was an abjurer, aka mr.Contingency. Until he was grappled inside an anti-magic field.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@randomwalker, what you're describing is essentially what I was referring to as my "ideal" solution. I was concerned that so fully developing each Specialization might be cost-prohibitive.
My concern is that the Spells will be set out so that a Generalist can get all the spells they'll likely want in 2.5 years. If that's the case, it's very unlikely that there will be enough spells to keep a Specialist busy for 2.5 years.
If they do have enough spells to keep a Specialist busy for 2.5 years, then it seems likely that many of those spells would be irrelevant and only serve as time sinks.
I suppose another possibility would be to limit the rank of the spells you could slot based on which Specialization Focus you chose. So, for example, an Evoker Specialist might be able to slot Rank 12 Evocation spells, but would be limited to Rank 8 or 9 in spells from other schools, or Rank 6 from opposition schools. Meanwhile, a Generalist might be able to slot spells up to Rank 10 from any school.
I'm not clear enough on how Spells and Spellbooks will all work to suggest how to handle the Dedication Bonus with respect to slotting Opposition School spells, but I'd like to see the "flavor" from PFRPG that caused them to take up two slots.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Remember that divination has been trashed in Golarion with the death of Aroden.Source?
- The 2008 Pathfinder Chronicles Gazetteer
- The 2008 Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting- The 2011 Pathfinder Campaign Setting Inner Sea Guide
The current Age (the 5th one so far) on Golarion is known as the Age of Lost Omens due to Aroden's death.
The World Today (4707 Absalom Reckoning)
Just over a century ago, the god of humanity died.
His name was Aroden, and he not only lifted humanity out of the ashes and terror of the Age of Darkness (an age that followed the meteoric cataclysm known as Earthfall), but founded the greatest city in the world—Absalom. He defeated the foul wizardking Tar-Baphon. He drove back the demon lord of the Locust Host from the nation of Sarkoris. He eventually left the world to join the divine host after setting humanity on course for a great destiny. Prophecies said that when humanity was ready to ascend back to the pinnacle it once held in the ancient times of Old Azlant, Aroden would return to the world to usher in a new Age of Glory.
But, instead of returning at the appointed time, Aroden, the god of humanity, died.
The death of the god of humanity marked the beginning of a new age. The previous ages had names to inspire and bolster the spirit—the Age of Destiny, the Age of Enthronement. But this new age is not a time of plenty. It is the Age of Lost Omens, for if a god cannot fulfill his own prophecy, what chance have any others of coming true?Aroden’s death scarred the world with storms and madness. To the north, the world split open and the festering armies of the Abyss spilled out through a tear in reality known today as the Worldwound. To the south, the idyllic gulf of Abendego was consumed by a perpetual hurricane whose winds and waves drowned nations. And in the heartland of the Inner Sea region, where Aroden had been prophesied to return, civil war erupted and thousands died before the diabolic House of Thrune seized power.
The Age of Lost Omens has now entered its second century, and in the 11 decades since Aroden’s death, the world has become a darker place. A place where ancient, sinful wizards known as runelords threaten to waken from 10,000 years of slumber. A place where nations are ruled by criminals or devil worshipers or worse. A place where once-great empires now wallow in self-indulgent paranoia or bloody, endless revolutions. A place where nothing is foretold, and anything can happen.
- The 2011 Lands of the Linnorm Kings
In the Lands of the Linnorm Kings, oracles, seers, and witches die as the force of Aroden's death smashes their prophecies.
- James Jacobs in his Paizo Blog, Jan 6, 2008, entitled More info about deities?
The death of Aroden, the first of the ascended gods, at the end of the Age of Enthronement 100 years ago was extremely unexpected. His death was not prophesied, and once he died, most of the other prophecies in the world started to go bad as well. Many of Pharasma's priests have lost their faith or have gone mad as a result, but those who remain, are finding that Pharasma's hold over prophecy is becoming less important, while her domain over death, birth, and fate, are growing stronger. It's a time of change for Pharasma and her faith. Some legends say that Pharasma knew the death of Aroden was approaching, but chose not to tell her followers for reasons unknown.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really only see this as the role of prophecy and omens are diminished. Diviner wizards don't really have anything to do with either of those things, but instead are able to see things as they are now. At best, they only have a few seconds foreknowledge of an event about to happen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If each school of magic is a separate skill ladder, then specializations will appear organically. The bonus powers and extra spells you get for specializing are what is really unique to each specialist type, and you could just make it so only powers from one such grouping could be equipped at any given time, and whichever one is equipped gives the focus bonus of making spells of that school a little cheaper to cast (effectively giving bonus spells to that school).
I see class roles working in a similar way across them all. The way DDO did its 'action point' trees really ended up creating a variant class system. Some abilities only required a certain number of points spent, some had to be points spent in specific categories, and some had a few options that would qualify. If a fighter's 2nd level 'bravery' bonus to fear saves is a requirement for armour training at level 3, then you could make a variant class by putting in other abilities which could also fulfill the 'bravery' prerequisite (but could not be equipped at the same time if they're meant as replacements). Someone could train every option in the tree if they wanted the ability to switch between playstyle modes while retaining their fighter focus bonus, but it would take longer to progress because they're effectively exploring each branch point and backtracking to the fork instead of just picking one to go with and continuing to climb.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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The setting makes long-term prophecy incredibly unreliable, but has no issues with short term divinations. Harrow readings, for example, are important in the setting.
So...
"In the year where the iron king rises in the East and the midnight dragon burns the azure fields, the sky will weep tears of blood and the thrice-reborn wanderer will strike down the lord of death."
Doesn't work so well.
"I see in the cards that you will soon come upon a Bear, usually signifying a creature of great strength. This is coupled with a Tower and the Rabbit Prince, so I suggest keeping your options open and trusting to your agility the next time you're in a dungeon."
Is still very likely to work.
"We're thinking about going right instead of left at the next dungeon junction. Weal or woe?"
Is no problem.
Also, the Runelords discounted Divination so they'd have seven schools left to map to the seven sins. But that's unrelated to Aroden's death.
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The real problem with Divination is that it already has less spells per level on average than most other schools in core, and a large portion of those are things that normally require GM intervention (contacting other planes, detecting thoughts) or allow silent and reliable communication (which chat already gives to everyone).
What's left would largely be useless unless we require item identification (weird when the majority of your items will be crafted and sold to you by the original maker), allow you to view game areas remotely (possible, but may have some privacy concerns), or make Illusionists so good that Diviners are their major counter (and Illusion is the second hardest school to do in an MMO).
So, yeah, Divination is currently the hardest school to make sufficiently robust within an MMO context, but not because it doesn't work on Golarion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The real problem with Divination is that it already has less spells per level on average than most other schools in core, and a large portion of those are things that normally require GM intervention (contacting other planes, detecting thoughts) or allow silent and reliable communication (which chat already gives to everyone).
You can use true strike as a model and give mechanical bonuses flavoured as greater access to information. If you had a spell helping you pick up more cues than you might otherwise notice, you could make a better guess how someone is feeling and turn that into a charisma bonus since you know what to say. A preview of someone's actions only hundredths of a second ahead could provide a substantial dodge bonus in combat.
Temporary training is another possibility, so although you're not a monk you might suddenly know kung-fu while a spell lasts. Something like a magical version of Shadowrun's skillsoft could work, and it makes sense that you could temporarily know something in that way, because technologies from Wikipedia to GPS don't necessarily leave their users with a lasting memory of the information they accessed. The brain will tend to learn how to get to the information rather than retaining the information itself.
Dice rolling is an abstraction for all the little complications that can affect an action, but if you had a system more aware of variables and able to process them quickly, then you'd succeed more often. You could represent this by a straight modifier, or by turning part of your variable space into a constant (instead of rolling a d20 to hit, you roll a d12+8).
And then everything that divination could help you with, illusion could confound. A minor displacement effect or illusionary feint could inflict a dodge penalty, or you could make a demon look like a devil, causing someone to use silvered weapons instead of cold iron ones, etc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that divination spells would be very useful, but maybe not in the "Weal or woe?" choice @Stephen used. There has been a lot of discussion about disguise and name spoofing in other threads and divination could help penetrate that. Also in dungeons (locate object, find the path), in discerning true nature of people entering settlements (true sight), and in espionage (comprehend languages if side chats are allowed as separate languages), and (as has been mentioned) for combat (true strike) would still have value and be achievable within game technology (my guess there). If we disconnect prophesy (as mentioned by @Mirrel the Marvelous) from divination I think this school is workable, especially for a detective or spy build.
Illusion ... not so much.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Perhaps diviners could be a major asset to dedicated harvesting. They could act as a dowsing rod for nodes and be able to 'scan' them for purity/quantity/etc in a better way than other available methods. Perhaps they get a bonus to their 'harvest monster parts' abilities like Knowledge (Arcana) and the like because they can more easily identify the best components.
Alternatively they could be used to give group buffs based on minor precog abilities. For example everyone gets a +1 insight bonus to AC or attack. It may require some new spells/abilities though.
With respect to illusionists, they could be handled in a way similar to the GW2 Mesmer's Phantasms and Clones. Except in this case, instead of illusionary player copies, the character can choose what to throw out there. This is probably closer to the Shadow sub-school rather than true illusion because of the limitations of the medium.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Diviners do get the short shift in the PnP game, for the reasons Stephen notes. Illusionists have kept their edge probably due to their history in early AD&D, when you could choose to be a Magic-User or an Illusionist.
I agree with Mirrel, Harad and Oberyn that Diviners could be a huge asset to merchants and gathers. However, I disagree with Harad that Illusionists wouldn't be as helpful. If an arcane spell caster can make the merchant caravan appear to have more guards than it really does, or appear to have less valuable items, a bandit(s) could leave it alone in favor of a "better" mark. Same would go for harvesting/mining/gathering camps, with the added benefit of working against NPC creatures who might attack the illusionary guards while the real ones attack them. Just things to keep in mind. I think every school has a place, just some will be more niche than others.
On this topic, I hope we will see the elemental schools sometime in EE or early OE. I love playing pyromancers (I blame it on being born under a fire sign, Leo, and having ruby as a birthstone - just makes me like fire. Fire, fire hehe).
@Stephen - excellent post. I was trying to just give the sources linked to the results of Aroden's death and its consequences, but you sir gave me some insightful ideas for when next it is my turn to run our PFRPG :D Now I also have to pick up a Harrow Deck from Paizo :P
@Oberyn - PFRPG has spells that do add insight bonuses so I can see them being of huge usefulness in this MMO. One of my favorite ones is mentioned by Harad: True Strike.
TRUE STRIKE
School divination; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, F (small wooden replica of an archery target)
Range personal
Target you
Duration see text
You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.
That spell makes a world of difference to low level groups when fighting a big bad. Hell, as I play Elven Wizards, I have cast it on my own PC just to lay in some melee damage when it was the last spell I had. Longsword + True Strike = damn good attack even from a Wizard.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... However, I disagree with Harad that Illusionists wouldn't be as helpful.
My apologies @Gloreindl, I was commenting on the implementation of illusion spells technically in POL. I think that divination spells which divine facts about the actual game world could be implemented with less technical difficulty than implementing illusion spells. I agree that illusion spells would be very helpful.
An additional use for divination magic would be for the Enforcer flag. If a group of Enforcers were trying to track down the perpetrators of a SAD or kill, divination could help with survival skill checks to track. They could also benefit from a Which way did they go, George spell if they did not have a character who could track.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think with the way the flag system works, Divination could have some major uses tracking people down. How handy would a divination wiz/sorc be for a bounty hunter trying to track a target, or a group of bandits trying to scry on a merchant to plan an ambush. These uses also make spells like Avoid Detection so much more vital, and means that players need to plan that much more.
In terms of functionality of spell progression, I like the idea of the merit badge system, but with a bit of leeway on spell progression. Like you can take a few spells from other schools without it impacting progression too much. Taking spells from your restricted school however should have some pretty harsh penalties to progression imo.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem is, that Bounty Hunters already get a tracking beacon when they take the bounty contract. Diviners behind the scenes would explain how that works, but the current dev blogs stated that tracking was one of the benefits of the bounty system.
I really like the idea of expanding on True Strike to make Diviners able to forsee the best possible point to strike. There could be multiple spells with combat and non-combat uses that make other skills work better. You could have a "Sixth Sense" spell that is functionally identical to mage armor except instead of giving an armor bonus to AC, it give an insight bonus to AC. You could have a spell that allows you to "Take 20" on a skill the first time. You could have a spell that makes your next combat hit an automatic critical, and makes the wound more severe.
On of my new favorite urban fantasy series is the Alex Verus Series by Benedict Jacka. The main character in the books is a Diviner,and while the magic system is totally different, it dive a great insight in to what a diviner can do.
If an arcane spell caster can make the merchant caravan appear to have more guards than it really does, or appear to have less valuable items, a bandit(s) could leave it alone in favor of a "better" mark. Same would go for harvesting/mining/gathering camps, with the added benefit of working against NPC creatures who might attack the illusionary guards while the real ones attack them. Just things to keep in mind. I think every school has a place, just some will be more niche than others.
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I think Illusionists would be prized by settlements in times of trouble. Imagine needing to slip a party past enemy lines, an Illusionist can make that party appear as mice or children. A settlement under attack could ready a fire team to target an enemies siege engines and an Illusionist could provide cover by making the team appear to be rabbits, allowing them to get close enough to torch the engines.
A caravan would do well to hire an Illusionist as Gloreindl pointed out. A prospecting team would love to have an Illusionist along to provide cover from roaming bandits and humanoid NPCs.
I ran a Thief/Illusionist a number of times back in my AD&D days. If the Illusionist is a role in PFO I may try and bring that build back. It does sound useful!
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Goblin Squad Member
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On of my new favorite urban fantasy series is the Alex Verus Series by Benedict Jacka. The main character in the books is a Diviner,and while the magic system is totally different, it dive a great insight in to what a diviner can do.
I'll have to give that series a look. Currently I am a huge fan of both Charles Stross' The Laundry Series (Modern day UK spy agency set up to combat Cthulhu Mythos stuff) and James Butcher's Dresden Files (I start a Dresden Files RPG game on Sat!).
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Goblin Squad Member
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On of my new favorite urban fantasy series is the Alex Verus Series by Benedict Jacka. The main character in the books is a Diviner,and while the magic system is totally different, it dive a great insight in to what a diviner can do.I'll have to give that series a look. Currently I am a huge fan of both Charles Stross' The Laundry Series (Modern day UK spy agency set up to combat Cthulhu Mythos stuff) and James Butcher's Dresden Files (I start a Dresden Files RPG game on Sat!).
Big fan of both Stross and Butcher as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm a huge fan of Butcher, his blurb for the Alex Verus series is what made me read it. I'll second the Iron Druid Chronicles by Hearne, although I was disappointed by the last book... it was good, it just didn't feel like a complete book on it's own. I'll have to check out Stross though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Avid Dresden Files fan as well. Dresden might be a good model of what a wizard could potentially do in PFO actually with the varied skills :P
As far as reading, Ive started the Hellequin Chronicles by Steve McHugh and the first book was pretty interesting. Read book 1 of the Iron Druid series and didnt like it that much. Ive been spoiled by the Dresden Files :P
... (I start a Dresden Files RPG game on Sat!)
Id be very interested in your thoughts/experience on the system and setting (for TT purposes). My gaming group plays PF primarily but were all DF fans and have been considering giving the RPG a shot.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Avid Dresden Files fan as well. Dresden might be a good model of what a wizard could potentially do in PFO actually with the varied skills :P
As far as reading, Ive started the Hellequin Chronicles by Steve McHugh and the first book was pretty interesting. Read book 1 of the Iron Druid series and didnt like it that much. Ive been spoiled by the Dresden Files :P
... (I start a Dresden Files RPG game on Sat!)Id be very interested in your thoughts/experience on the system and setting (for TT purposes). My gaming group plays PF primarily but were all DF fans and have been considering giving the RPG a shot.
I'm currently in a DFRPG game, and have been for 6-7 months. The mechanics evoke the feel of the novels very well, because FATE tends to be a very narrativist system (PFRPG tends to be very gamist/simulationist). You should expect more persona-development than number-crunching when making your character, since half your character sheet is devoted to the core of the FATE system: Aspects.
For example, here are the aspects of a character I played:
1. High Concept: "Wereraven Rogue"
Usually the HC is a combination of something that says how you're weird/fantasy and how you're modern/urban. Dresden's HC is "Wizard Private-Eye", for another example. Even if you're playing a pure mortal like Murphy or Marcone, you might include something about how you got mixed up in dealing with the spooky stuff.
2. Trouble: Started with "Ooh, Shiny!" but was eventually replaced with "Been Caught Stealin'".
The trouble is something that tends to plague your character. I decided that my character had spent so much time in raven form that I had picked up the animal's attraction to bright objects, so that's where "Ooh, Shiny!" came from. I changed the Trouble later to represent the fact that while he still had the kleptomania urges, it had caused him enough issues that he could occasionally invoke that experience to help him notice possible ways of getting caught before trying sneaky stuff.
3-7 are "Phase Aspects", and they are tied into your backstory and tie you in to the backstories f other characters.
3. "Birds of a Feather" - My character grew up on a Lakota Sioux reservation in South Dakota, and his best friend Mica was a constant companion.
4. "Trickster's Chosen" - Bran and Mica got lost in the badlands and were helped by a mysterious old-style shaman, Raven Two-Souls. He taught the pair shapeshifting, and each adopted the form of a trickster spirit from Sioux myth. Bran could become a raven, and Mica could become a coyote.
5. "Dark Wings, Dark Words" - While hidden in animal form and investigating what some apparent government agents were doing at an abandoned old artillery range, Mica got zapped by some energy weapon. Bran tried to fly back to the Rez and get help, but nobody would believe him. When the agents showed up asking questions, Bran flew away.
6. "Hidden in Plain Sight" - A few years later, Bran was able to surprise some enemies that were attacking a young women behind her bakery. They'd thought she was alone, since they'd ignored the bird perched on a nearby roof.
7. "Seeker of Secrets" - After helping his new friends investigate weird murders and defeat a warlock, Bran got access to a library of supernatural lore.
Obviously, I borrowed a lot of those from other media, from a Jane's Addiction song, to Game of Thrones, and even the title of a Pathfinder book. I like doing that because it will tend to make evocative, pithy phrases which stand out even more when people recognize them.
The GM can 'compel' one of my aspects to influence me to act in a certain way, usually causing some complication that advances the plot. This is most often done with the Trouble, but could be done with any aspect. "Birds of a Feather" was compelled to make me get involved with a couple conflicts when I met someone that reminded me of Mica, and later when that old friend showed up. If I accept the compel, I get a Fate Point, or if I spend a Fate Point, I can resist it.
The Aspects are also useful in various challenges and conflicts. Bran wasn't much of a fighter, so I often used "Trickster's Chosen" to fool an enemy into doing something stupid to hurt itself. Roadrunners can't have all the fun, and a raven's "cah-cah-cah" makes for a better laugh than "meep meep". ;P
Even a Trouble aspect can occasionally be invoked for a useful effect, such as "Been Caught Stealin'" helping me to avoid getting caught again.
If you make a wereraven, recall that the birds can copy human voices and other sounds, so take "Mimicry" as part of your Echoes of the Beast power, and choose a high Deceit skill score to use it to mess with people. If you know what someone's voice sounds like, it's easy to impersonate them on the phone, or even to command their minions to "fall back!" in the middle of a chaotic struggle.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In the RPG while its possible to play a glass canon its not the best or most effective use of a Wizard.
Wizards are all about the buffing and the debuffing rather then damage. Mathmatically Damage in Pathfinder makes it so its just plain ineffective to be a glass canon you are far better off being a two handed fighter, a paladin or a Bow specialist ranger/fighter. That being said its just as difficult to play a mage as a defensive caster as it is to play a glass canon. It just doesn't work as the math refuses to make it work. As levels go up AC means less and less as the bonuses to hit grow higher and higher. Wizards work far better as jack of all trades.
Dresdan is a straight up thug he is an excellent fighter and can take quite a bit of a beating and keep on going in the pulp noir kind of way.
Divination in Pathfinder online is actually an area where not being the pen and paper game can be useful.
1. Using it to find things.
Lets say you need a particular component for crafting your uber blade of death. So you use divination which tells you what can give you the item and where the closest one is currently located at.
2.Scrying is your friend.
Want to know whats in a dungeon well the arcane eye that acts like a remote camera can take you on a guided tour. Also handy for mapping areas without ever leaving your settlement.
3. Looting.
Divination would be awesome for finding out what chance an item has for dropping or even entire loot tables for monsters and chests. Possibly even allowing you to pick what drops or increasing the chance that something will drop.
4. Finding the Path...
Hate having to spend hours hunting for the way to get to that single spot on the map? What if you could use magic to pick a location and then voila a magic compass shows you the way...
5. Hate boss fights?
How much more fun would it be if you could know exactly where and when to stand in the proper spot?
I could really see Diviners being a great option for settlements wishing to be competitive in Market and Warfare. Information is vital, and Diviners are very good at providing it. Also, a high level Diviner is almost NEVER surprised, so having one along on a wagon train might be very useful for avoiding bandits.
That would depend very much indeed on exactly how Divination spells are implemented.
If Scrying does work at all, it may still be useless if you have to be actively targeting someone to cast it on them. How could they implement Scrying in a way that isn't Wizard Eye? That is, Wizard Eye would be simple and easy: spawn a camera, perhaps attached to an invisible "eyeball" model, and give the player the ability to fly it around. But how would you enable players to spawn a camera at a place they can't see on a player/NPC they can't target, and without requiring them to "walk" the camera into position?
Similarly, if you provide a spell which spots secret doors or traps or whatever, what good will it actually be to players who can just look up the location of that trap via some online resource or when they know the secret door is there because their friends told them what they remember of how the enemy base was laid out?
And how will you provide initiative bonuses and "precognition" in a real time, shared, persistent world? The computer couldn't possibly know what players will be about to do -- so your precognition will be blind in PvP no matter what. I could see some sort of "ghosting" implemented to allow a Diviner to see creatures through walls or to see transparent ghostly "trails" of creatures that have passed by recently, but that is definitely not the same thing as Foresight.
In other words, the mechanics and capabilities of Divination will be unlike PnP. Scrying, Augury or Commune can't function anything like they do PnP, so if those spells are included, they will do something like...
Scrying only being able to target people on your Friends or Enemies list (which would include people who have attacked or aided you in some way). Augury being a utility window that shows you when a camp of nomadic raiders might spawn. Commune will provide preset information about a person or guild, maybe even a quest or dungeon (if indeed there will even be such things in a sandbox).
But how will Detect Thoughts and Detect Teleportation work? Anticipate Peril? Harrowing? Contact Other Plane? Telepathic Bond? Legend Lore / Vision? Discern Location? Foresight?
Without those particular spells, the entire school of Divination is reduced to almost literally nothing but Tongues and Wizard Eye... Which is pretty frightening considering how weak the school already is in PnP!
It's all but certain that Divination won't exist as a distinct school for Wizards in the game. A few random UI panes may be named in a manner meant to evoke the memory of divinatory spells, and spellcasters may have some generic powers that provide some minor quality of life conveniences, but Divination as a school of magic with any appreciable pool of spells will not exist.
