What is my alignment?


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Hello all! I am new to Pathfinder & I am currently making my first character whom I selected will be a Rogue. One of the issues I am having with him is finding out what alignment he falls into.

He has a set of loose principles in that he values fair 1 v 1 combat when it is called for but at the same time will break these values if it means to protect his friends. This makes him sound Chaotic Good however...

He isn't above murder should he feel someone is corrupt (ex: a Noble or Knight attacking a peasant girl because she accidentally tore his fancy cape.) In which case he has little qualms with openly murdering someone. Even if someone was using Blackmail against a friend he would create an "accidental" death and would hide any involvement with the murder from his friends. This sounds more evil to me.

So is he perhaps a Chaotic Neutral character? I am not sure. :(

EDIT: If it helps I'll a bit of back story & future goals to this character.

He was born to a noble house of famous swordsman but at a young tender age an opposing house legally slaughtered his family through "duels" to prove who had the superior swordsmanship even though it has been rumored that there may have been cheating going on. A loyal vassal hides the young master fearing that he may be targeted as well. The vassal himself is in fact is a leader of a Thieve's Guild much akin to Robin Hood & thus my character learns most of his more dishonest skills though him & takes his last name to hide his own.

His goal is to prove to the world that his family's swordsmanship is indeed the best in the world and plans to reclaim his family's honor. He knows that by doing so a lot of blood of nobles whom he feels is corrupt will be spilled but has little qualms about doing so & does not worry about the possible consequences of these actions.

Grand Lodge

CN sounds fine.

Why Rogue?


Just felt like the class suited my character more.

I wanted a light on his feet acrobatic swordsman. Much like Syrio Forel from Game of Thrones. My character's personality just "felt" more roguish to me as well so that is why I choose this class.


Settling on an alignment can be tricky, but I find it helps to remind yourself that, unless you're a paladin or someone equally extreme, most alignments are just a tendency. Not all evil characters must somehow abstain from doing good, and not all good characters are incapable of a little evil every now and then. People are complex - way too complex to fit perfectly within a mere 9 different alignments.

I think chaotic neutral sounds pretty fair for your character. Perhaps neutral (as in neutral-neutral) if you see him as more dedicated and persistent than your average chaotic character, who tend to be a fickle sort.

If you find that your portrayal starts to change during play, as you settle into the character, then you can always talk to your GM about changing alignments.

I like the concept, by the way! Sounds like it'll be fun to play. As someone who mostly GMs, I love it when players come up with stuff like this.


Try rogue/ lore warden/ duelist with the crane style feats. Possibly MoMS or unarmed fighter. Honestly look at a duelist guide and pick the path that most suits you. I am partial to rog4/ magus 4/ duelist x.


Yeah, alignments are complex.

Lawful means you always follow your own principles, and that those principles cover pretty much everything. It does NOT mean always following the law of the land. Sounds like you have some principles which are inflexible, but others that are loose, so on the Lawful-Chaotic scale you'd be Neutral.

Good means you care about other people and want to help them every chance you get. Evil means the opposite, every chance you get you screw the other guy over. "Murdering" somebody who violates your personal principles, far from being evil, could even be Lawful Good if it was to bring justice on behalf of somebody who was wronged (besides yourself.) Murdering someone simply because they objected to you taking their loot would be evil.

So, do you feel compelled to help people every chance you get? Then you're good, and probably Neutral Good. Do you only help people when you feel a special personal attachment to their situation, and on the other hand sometimes take advantage of people who've done nothing wrong to you? Then you're neutral-neutral, or just Neutral (as opposed to True Neutral which is an ethic in and of itself promoting balance in all things.)

Dendail wrote:


He isn't above murder should he feel someone is corrupt (ex: a Noble or Knight attacking a peasant girl because she accidentally tore his fancy cape.) In which case he has little qualms with openly murdering someone. Even if someone was using Blackmail against a friend he would create an "accidental" death and would hide any involvement with the murder from his friends. This sounds more evil to me.

This in particular is not evil, it's Lawful Good. Following your own principles to see justice done to those who have wronged the innocent. The more it gets into just helping your friends the more neutral it becomes. If it was just helping yourself, it would be evil. But either way it would be Lawful. Chaotic would be to not give a damn.

Grand Lodge

Sounds more Urban Ranger or Lore Warden Fighter.

Remember, you can be "Roguish" without being a Rogue.

The name of your class does not define, or restrict you.

You do.


Funny that you mentioned Duelist because I was planning to indeed evolve into one when I had the appropriate skills. I am still trying to figure out that "special" something that makes his swordsmanship superior but it would likely be something he discovers as he matures since there is no living teacher and all his knowledge comes from his earlier training & days of watching his brothers & father.

I'll take a look over of the Magus since I just got the Advanced Player's Guide.

Grand Lodge

Magus, or Free Hand Fighter, with the Dervish Dance feat, and maybe some levels in Duelist sounds very fitting.


Hm True Neutral... It's whats on my character sheet atm since I wasn't sure but sounds like me. Though I also thought Neutral meant indifferent to good - evil, law - chaos. I wish the Alignments had sub categories or something to explain the different types of Neutrals or other alignments.

I'll read over the Urban Rangers & Lore Warden Fighter. Who knows they could very well fit better for my character. :)


I'm with rangerjeff on your characters alignment. From your description he strikes me as more Neutral Good. Of course, that is assuming he cares about innocent people other than just his friends and allies. If he is less concerned with helping others outside his group, Neutral would probably work. I say this since your character clearly is interested in following protocol when appropriate, but has no qualms to step outside it when it starts to fail him. Most chaotic characters would not worry about honor or anything of the sort unless they felt they had to in order to survive or reach their goal while most lawful characters would be less willing to act in a dishonorable way (to them, at least) even when the going got tough. The kind of flexibility you describe sounds neutral on Law-Chaos.


Magus 4 gives you some great options for all kinds of situations, and access to alot of great wands and scrolls you will want to be extra rougey!

Silver Crusade

Just so! And what do we say to Death?


Ack! I just noticed Magus isn't in the APG. Which book is this class from?


Ultimate Magic


-_- ugh... I had planned on that being one of my final books based on the reviews.


Dendail wrote:
Hello all! I am new to Pathfinder & I am currently making my first character whom I selected will be a Rogue. One of the issues I am having with him is finding out what alignment he falls into.

Here's some handy alignment charts to help you decide.

If you still can't decide, write down Batman and you're good to go.


Ah... good ole Batman...

"Vengeance blackens the soul, Bruce. I've always feared you would become that which you fought against. You walk the edge of that abyss every night, but you haven't fallen in and I thank heaven for that."

Sounds rather similar to my character that is for sure. :D And bonus for it being True Neutral as well!


Alignment breaks down something fierce for gritty postmodern heroes.


On second (or third) thought, do rogue 4, using your rogue tricks to at least pick up combat feat, then fighter (lore warden or weapon master) 3, then duelist. Magus 4 is fun, but I believe your character would be focusing on martial superiority. The loss of 2 BaB plus -2 from fighting defensively with crane style, is a bit too significant for a martial focused character. Lore warden will get you some skills and open the door for some maneuvers, but weapon master gives you the most bang for your buck with weapon training at 3. You will want to hit duelist as soon as possible which will be lvl 8 if you plan on taking even 1 lvl of rogue, so you won't hit lvl 5 as a fighter to pick up weapon training. Weapon master gets you the most important ability early enough for it to count, and gloves of dueling will drive that bonus home!

Grand Lodge

If going for a more martial build, Rogue will disappoint.


Ooh and as a bonus I have the book for a Weapon Master Fighter - I do believe I prefer that route & I'll grab Weapon Finesse on my Rogue using Finesse Rogue.


Disappoint how? D:

EDIT: Even when going lv5 Rogue, lv3 Fighter ---> Duelist?

Grand Lodge

Sneak Attack is quite limited. The slower BAB hurts too.

Things that apply flat damage, like a Fighter's Weapon Training, will always be better, and the Full BAB makes for a better martial PC.


Rogue 4 only puts him behind 1 point of BaB, and gives him the skill acces he wants. And rogue talents can buy needed feats.


Hm I thought Two-Weapon Fighting helps balance the weaker BAB. In any case I prefer more Role Playing rather than Roll Playing and the other classes doesn't give off the vibe I desire.

Of course I don't want to be useless either so are rogues really that bad? :(

Grand Lodge

Unfortunately for Rogue fans, anything a Rogue can do, another class can do better.

I don't know why, but that's just how it is.

With a lot of work, you can make a viable Rogue.

Thing is, there is always another class out there, doing the same thing, but better.


Dendail wrote:

Hm I thought Two-Weapon Fighting helps balance the weaker BAB. In any case I prefer more Role Playing rather than Roll Playing and the other classes doesn't give off the vibe I desire.

Of course I don't want to be useless either so are rogues really that bad? :(

Yes and no. Rogue dip to 4 isn't bad at all, but straight rogue loses power faster than a fish net loses water. TWF doesn't off set poor BaB, it makes it worse! However, everyone thinks rogues should TWF to get the most of SA. I disagree, but I am probably, almost certainly wrong. A 4 lvl dip is perfect for a RP choice for duelist as long as you back it with a full BaB class, or magus 4 for some tricky and versatile character options (but not optimized).

Your background wants the highest BaB possible to truly shine as the quintessential duelist, but as I said, the 1 BaB loss is more than acceptable to get the RP flair you are looking for.


I know many players who play nothing but Rogues... but yeah, I think the consensus is that they're the weakest class. Best thing about them is trapfinding. Sneak attack damage is situational, and doesn't multiply on a crit, so higher static damage is better. And Two-Weapon fighting is also I believe considered to be the weakest fighting style. Not just because you're going to be -2 to attack with both hands at best, but also because you'll have to shell out the gp to get two weapons.

So, currently as far as I can tell, in Pathfinder, Archery>Two Handed Weapons>Sword and Board>Two Weapon fighting... not sure where one handed builds and unarmed fit into that.

But having said that, I'll repeat what I started with: I know many players who still, despite the mechanical disadvantages, play nothing but Rogues, and have a great time playing, and I have to say (as a bit of a min-maxer) that I don't resent having them at the table. If RP is your shtick (this is a RPG, right?) then do what you want first, and worry about optimizing mechanics second.

Grand Lodge

Urban/Trapper Ranger, is a better Rogue.

It will also allow you to nab Power Attack, without the 13 strength.

Nab the Dervish Dance feat, focus on Dexterity, and Duel away.


That is a shame about the Rogue but I am glad there is the Duelist that I can go to and I do hope they improve the Rogue class... It's kind of weird to have a weak class like this. O.o


If they took rogue and duelist and combined them into a base class (not the 3.5 swashbuckler), then I would probly play nothing else.

Grand Lodge

Yeah. Sneak attack? Alchemist does it better.

Disabling Traps? Oracle does it better.

Being Sneaky? Inquisitor does it better.

It sort of sucks, but that's just the way it is.


not to totally derail, but Oracles can find magical traps? I thought rogues were the only ones who could do that (without expending resources, like a spell.)

Grand Lodge

There are a number of class archetypes that can deal with magical traps.

Seeker Oracle, Archaeologist Bard, and some others I can't think of right now can do it.


This is all true, but rogue gets traps, trap sense, evasion, uncanny dodge, SA +2d6, 2 talents (feats), and 32 + int x4 skills from a 4 lvl dip. That is everything the OP is looking for and then some.


So Im guessing 4 rogue 3 fighter would be the best path for me towards duelist? I am like the evasion & dodge a lot not to mention the 2 free feats. The bonus skills like Byrd says definitely seems to be what I am looking for. Then I can focus solely on Duelist afterwards. :)

Did I get that right?

Grand Lodge

Those things are better gotten with Urban Ranger/Barbarian.

That will also sync very well with Dervish Dance.


Urban Ranger + Barbarian doesn't sound like my character at all though. What an odd mix to boot.

Grand Lodge

Again, the name of a class does not define you.

It is this needless restriction that players put on themselves that stops cool concepts from working.

So I say: You are not the name of your class.


Dendail wrote:

So Im guessing 4 rogue 3 fighter would be the best path for me towards duelist? I am like the evasion & dodge a lot not to mention the 2 free feats. The bonus skills like Byrd says definitely seems to be what I am looking for. Then I can focus solely on Duelist afterwards. :)

Did I get that right?

Yes, weapon master for early acces to weapon training. The lack of skills should be more than compensated by your first four lvls of rogue.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Those things are better gotten with Urban Ranger/Barbarian.

That will also sync very well with Dervish Dance.

Dude, you are fired! Lol!


Ty all for your imput! ^^ I do believe I have settled on 4 Rogue/3 Fighter & I will definately check into Dervish Dance!

Quick question. Weapon Finesse allows me to use my Dexterity to give me better accuracy yes? And the Dervish Dance then allows me to use Dexterity for damage?


Yes. But only with a scimitar. If you want to use a rapier, then you want the agile property placed on it.

Grand Lodge

Dervish Dancer also allows you to use all the Duelist abilities with the Scimitar.

Feat was designed with the Duelist in mind.


Oh is that a crafting thing? Sorry I'm pretty new to this.

Grand Lodge

Agile is a weapon enchantment.


I see Charm & Compulsion in my Core Rulebook. Is this something in another book like Ultimate Magic?


Actually, the nice thing about Rogues is that they are MUCH more adaptable and flexible overall than the other classes mentioned here. That's really useful if you don't know your DM well, or if you are going dungeon crawling a lot.

For Rogues, here's some neat tricks:

Try using Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Dodge, Mobility, along with Outflank from the APG. If you want to make your backstab even nastier, you can go for treating your blade with some form of poison, and perhaps taking this: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue -archetypes/knife-master

I have a Goblin Rogue in my game, and this archetype works wonders, since he's already limited to a d4 weapon because of his size. Plus, Goblins end up getting a +8 to Stealth because of their size and race.

Finally, this is a fun one: Get a Heavy Mithral Shield at 1020gp. You don't need a proficiency to use it, since no armor check penalty. Neat trick, no?


A few posts back you lamented not having access to the Magus rules.
Fortunately for you (and me, as only my friends actually own rulebooks, not myself) a very substantial portion of Paizo's Pathfinder rules are available online.

Paizo's database of rules
The "d20pfsrd" .

I personally find these better than physical rulebooks because you don't need to look up page numbers to find something; you can just click on the relevant section or search for it. The "d20pfsrd" I find to be especially easy to use and navigate.

I also like it better than the PDF rulebook documents since these websites tend to load faster. Also, you can open several browser tabs/windows to cross reference rules easily.

Liberty's Edge

If your character will take it upon himself to kill to protect innocent people (like protecting a peasant girl) or to see justice done that wont be done otherwise , even if his methods are shadey, I'd go with chaotic good. If he'd be willing to murder simply to avoid inconveniences I'd go with chaotic neutral. For me it would be if the character is more rebellious hero or pragmatic scoundrel.

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