Dendail |
Hello all! I am new to Pathfinder & I am currently making my first character whom I selected will be a Rogue. One of the issues I am having with him is finding out what alignment he falls into.
He has a set of loose principles in that he values fair 1 v 1 combat when it is called for but at the same time will break these values if it means to protect his friends. This makes him sound Chaotic Good however...
He isn't above murder should he feel someone is corrupt (ex: a Noble or Knight attacking a peasant girl because she accidentally tore his fancy cape.) In which case he has little qualms with openly murdering someone. Even if someone was using Blackmail against a friend he would create an "accidental" death and would hide any involvement with the murder from his friends. This sounds more evil to me.
So is he perhaps a Chaotic Neutral character? I am not sure. :(
EDIT: If it helps I'll a bit of back story & future goals to this character.
He was born to a noble house of famous swordsman but at a young tender age an opposing house legally slaughtered his family through "duels" to prove who had the superior swordsmanship even though it has been rumored that there may have been cheating going on. A loyal vassal hides the young master fearing that he may be targeted as well. The vassal himself is in fact is a leader of a Thieve's Guild much akin to Robin Hood & thus my character learns most of his more dishonest skills though him & takes his last name to hide his own.
His goal is to prove to the world that his family's swordsmanship is indeed the best in the world and plans to reclaim his family's honor. He knows that by doing so a lot of blood of nobles whom he feels is corrupt will be spilled but has little qualms about doing so & does not worry about the possible consequences of these actions.
Chris P. Bacon |
Settling on an alignment can be tricky, but I find it helps to remind yourself that, unless you're a paladin or someone equally extreme, most alignments are just a tendency. Not all evil characters must somehow abstain from doing good, and not all good characters are incapable of a little evil every now and then. People are complex - way too complex to fit perfectly within a mere 9 different alignments.
I think chaotic neutral sounds pretty fair for your character. Perhaps neutral (as in neutral-neutral) if you see him as more dedicated and persistent than your average chaotic character, who tend to be a fickle sort.
If you find that your portrayal starts to change during play, as you settle into the character, then you can always talk to your GM about changing alignments.
I like the concept, by the way! Sounds like it'll be fun to play. As someone who mostly GMs, I love it when players come up with stuff like this.
rangerjeff |
Yeah, alignments are complex.
Lawful means you always follow your own principles, and that those principles cover pretty much everything. It does NOT mean always following the law of the land. Sounds like you have some principles which are inflexible, but others that are loose, so on the Lawful-Chaotic scale you'd be Neutral.
Good means you care about other people and want to help them every chance you get. Evil means the opposite, every chance you get you screw the other guy over. "Murdering" somebody who violates your personal principles, far from being evil, could even be Lawful Good if it was to bring justice on behalf of somebody who was wronged (besides yourself.) Murdering someone simply because they objected to you taking their loot would be evil.
So, do you feel compelled to help people every chance you get? Then you're good, and probably Neutral Good. Do you only help people when you feel a special personal attachment to their situation, and on the other hand sometimes take advantage of people who've done nothing wrong to you? Then you're neutral-neutral, or just Neutral (as opposed to True Neutral which is an ethic in and of itself promoting balance in all things.)
He isn't above murder should he feel someone is corrupt (ex: a Noble or Knight attacking a peasant girl because she accidentally tore his fancy cape.) In which case he has little qualms with openly murdering someone. Even if someone was using Blackmail against a friend he would create an "accidental" death and would hide any involvement with the murder from his friends. This sounds more evil to me.
This in particular is not evil, it's Lawful Good. Following your own principles to see justice done to those who have wronged the innocent. The more it gets into just helping your friends the more neutral it becomes. If it was just helping yourself, it would be evil. But either way it would be Lawful. Chaotic would be to not give a damn.
Dendail |
Funny that you mentioned Duelist because I was planning to indeed evolve into one when I had the appropriate skills. I am still trying to figure out that "special" something that makes his swordsmanship superior but it would likely be something he discovers as he matures since there is no living teacher and all his knowledge comes from his earlier training & days of watching his brothers & father.
I'll take a look over of the Magus since I just got the Advanced Player's Guide.
Dendail |
Hm True Neutral... It's whats on my character sheet atm since I wasn't sure but sounds like me. Though I also thought Neutral meant indifferent to good - evil, law - chaos. I wish the Alignments had sub categories or something to explain the different types of Neutrals or other alignments.
I'll read over the Urban Rangers & Lore Warden Fighter. Who knows they could very well fit better for my character. :)
Dominigo |
I'm with rangerjeff on your characters alignment. From your description he strikes me as more Neutral Good. Of course, that is assuming he cares about innocent people other than just his friends and allies. If he is less concerned with helping others outside his group, Neutral would probably work. I say this since your character clearly is interested in following protocol when appropriate, but has no qualms to step outside it when it starts to fail him. Most chaotic characters would not worry about honor or anything of the sort unless they felt they had to in order to survive or reach their goal while most lawful characters would be less willing to act in a dishonorable way (to them, at least) even when the going got tough. The kind of flexibility you describe sounds neutral on Law-Chaos.
another_mage |
Hello all! I am new to Pathfinder & I am currently making my first character whom I selected will be a Rogue. One of the issues I am having with him is finding out what alignment he falls into.
Here's some handy alignment charts to help you decide.
If you still can't decide, write down Batman and you're good to go.
Dendail |
Ah... good ole Batman...
"Vengeance blackens the soul, Bruce. I've always feared you would become that which you fought against. You walk the edge of that abyss every night, but you haven't fallen in and I thank heaven for that."
Sounds rather similar to my character that is for sure. :D And bonus for it being True Neutral as well!
Byrdology |
On second (or third) thought, do rogue 4, using your rogue tricks to at least pick up combat feat, then fighter (lore warden or weapon master) 3, then duelist. Magus 4 is fun, but I believe your character would be focusing on martial superiority. The loss of 2 BaB plus -2 from fighting defensively with crane style, is a bit too significant for a martial focused character. Lore warden will get you some skills and open the door for some maneuvers, but weapon master gives you the most bang for your buck with weapon training at 3. You will want to hit duelist as soon as possible which will be lvl 8 if you plan on taking even 1 lvl of rogue, so you won't hit lvl 5 as a fighter to pick up weapon training. Weapon master gets you the most important ability early enough for it to count, and gloves of dueling will drive that bonus home!
Byrdology |
Hm I thought Two-Weapon Fighting helps balance the weaker BAB. In any case I prefer more Role Playing rather than Roll Playing and the other classes doesn't give off the vibe I desire.
Of course I don't want to be useless either so are rogues really that bad? :(
Yes and no. Rogue dip to 4 isn't bad at all, but straight rogue loses power faster than a fish net loses water. TWF doesn't off set poor BaB, it makes it worse! However, everyone thinks rogues should TWF to get the most of SA. I disagree, but I am probably, almost certainly wrong. A 4 lvl dip is perfect for a RP choice for duelist as long as you back it with a full BaB class, or magus 4 for some tricky and versatile character options (but not optimized).
Your background wants the highest BaB possible to truly shine as the quintessential duelist, but as I said, the 1 BaB loss is more than acceptable to get the RP flair you are looking for.
rangerjeff |
I know many players who play nothing but Rogues... but yeah, I think the consensus is that they're the weakest class. Best thing about them is trapfinding. Sneak attack damage is situational, and doesn't multiply on a crit, so higher static damage is better. And Two-Weapon fighting is also I believe considered to be the weakest fighting style. Not just because you're going to be -2 to attack with both hands at best, but also because you'll have to shell out the gp to get two weapons.
So, currently as far as I can tell, in Pathfinder, Archery>Two Handed Weapons>Sword and Board>Two Weapon fighting... not sure where one handed builds and unarmed fit into that.
But having said that, I'll repeat what I started with: I know many players who still, despite the mechanical disadvantages, play nothing but Rogues, and have a great time playing, and I have to say (as a bit of a min-maxer) that I don't resent having them at the table. If RP is your shtick (this is a RPG, right?) then do what you want first, and worry about optimizing mechanics second.
Byrdology |
So Im guessing 4 rogue 3 fighter would be the best path for me towards duelist? I am like the evasion & dodge a lot not to mention the 2 free feats. The bonus skills like Byrd says definitely seems to be what I am looking for. Then I can focus solely on Duelist afterwards. :)
Did I get that right?
Yes, weapon master for early acces to weapon training. The lack of skills should be more than compensated by your first four lvls of rogue.
Those things are better gotten with Urban Ranger/Barbarian.
That will also sync very well with Dervish Dance.
Dude, you are fired! Lol!
Piccolo |
Actually, the nice thing about Rogues is that they are MUCH more adaptable and flexible overall than the other classes mentioned here. That's really useful if you don't know your DM well, or if you are going dungeon crawling a lot.
For Rogues, here's some neat tricks:
Try using Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Dodge, Mobility, along with Outflank from the APG. If you want to make your backstab even nastier, you can go for treating your blade with some form of poison, and perhaps taking this: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue -archetypes/knife-master
I have a Goblin Rogue in my game, and this archetype works wonders, since he's already limited to a d4 weapon because of his size. Plus, Goblins end up getting a +8 to Stealth because of their size and race.
Finally, this is a fun one: Get a Heavy Mithral Shield at 1020gp. You don't need a proficiency to use it, since no armor check penalty. Neat trick, no?
Salindurthas |
A few posts back you lamented not having access to the Magus rules.
Fortunately for you (and me, as only my friends actually own rulebooks, not myself) a very substantial portion of Paizo's Pathfinder rules are available online.
Paizo's database of rules
The "d20pfsrd" .
I personally find these better than physical rulebooks because you don't need to look up page numbers to find something; you can just click on the relevant section or search for it. The "d20pfsrd" I find to be especially easy to use and navigate.
I also like it better than the PDF rulebook documents since these websites tend to load faster. Also, you can open several browser tabs/windows to cross reference rules easily.
Seadin |
If your character will take it upon himself to kill to protect innocent people (like protecting a peasant girl) or to see justice done that wont be done otherwise , even if his methods are shadey, I'd go with chaotic good. If he'd be willing to murder simply to avoid inconveniences I'd go with chaotic neutral. For me it would be if the character is more rebellious hero or pragmatic scoundrel.