long, long time ago. I think you would have been too youNG to do it in the street or anywhere else.Just got off the phone with la Principessa. Was talking more about manspreading and she told me that, some time ago (don't have a link, alas), the NYPD used to go around ticketing Metro passengers for putting their feet up on the seats.
Except that they only did it late at night when they were assured of getting exhausted immigrant kitchen workers on their way home.
I so love it when the liberal yuppie feminist gentrifier agenda coincides with the agenda of the armed fist of the bourgeois state.
Google search for "NYPD tickets feet on seats" gives me articles from 2009 to 2012. I'm not that young, Comrade Freehold.
Communist Propaganda:
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32
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I guess my question is: what makes you think that the condemnation of manspreading is largely the concern of (white) upper-class feminists?I thought Citizen K(e)rensky's answer was sufficient for this one. If not, I can come back to it.
Please. Unless it's just more of "this isn't really a feminist issue." Talking about a phenomenon that exemplifies the (most likely non-malicious in intent and unconscious) habit of many men to take up more space than women, to seemingly feel entitled to more space than women is an issue of gender equality. It's possible to address something like this while also caring about and addressing more severe gender inequalities. I'm not in the mood for straw-feminists.
It's this quarters distraction for actually working on addressing sexism in favor of tweeting, writing rants on blogs, and feeling superior about yourself for striking blow against the evil patriarchy.
It's statements like this that assume that 1) this isn't really an issue of sexism, and 2) this is somehow all that these people do, not taking "real" action. It also assumes that digital communication or activism is somehow not "real," which is ridiculous. I see a lot of references throughout the past couple of pages to "actually" dealing with gender inequality, but I never get any concrete examples.
And finally, I don't really see any evidence that this is a specifically upper-class feminist issue. Like I said, I would think that the majority of people taking public transit aren't exactly rolling in dough.
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Please. Unless it's just more of "this isn't really a feminist issue." Talking about a phenomenon that exemplifies the (most likely non-malicious in intent and unconscious) habit of many men to take up more space than women, to seemingly feel entitled to more space than women is an issue of gender equality. It's possible to address something like this while also caring about and addressing more severe gender inequalities. I'm not in the mood for straw-feminists.
What makes you think they are doing it because they feel entitled to more space than women?
Most likely, the majority of those people simply don't realize the space they are occupying or don't have much choice due to height and whatnot... And some of them are douches who don't care if they are inconveniencing others (male or female), but I doubt any of them is doing it specifically because they think women deserve less space.
Not every reprehensible behavior is caused by sexism, you know...
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32
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In a misogynistic society, men are told that they deserve more of everything and anything, up to and including shared physical space. Even if it's unconscious, it's not even necessarily the whole clause of "entitled to more space than women." It's more like, "you deserve X amount of space to talk, to walk, to sit, to be," and that amount differs based on a person's gender.
This is an observed, repeating, constant rift between how men and women behave in public space. There's no secret sexist plot at work here, just the same old boring patriarchal systems at work that create men who feel they deserve more space than that system teaches women that they deserve.
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Please. Unless it's just more of "this isn't really a feminist issue." Talking about a phenomenon that exemplifies the (most likely non-malicious in intent and unconscious) habit of many men to take up more space than women, to seemingly feel entitled to more space than women is an issue of gender equality. It's possible to address something like this while also caring about and addressing more severe gender inequalities. I'm not in the mood for straw-feminists.What makes you think they are doing it because they feel entitled to more space than women?
Most likely, the majority of those people simply don't realize the space they are occupying or don't have much choice due to height and whatnot... And some of them are douches who don't care if they are inconveniencing others (male or female), but I doubt any of them is doing it specifically because they think women deserve less space.
Not every reprehensible behavior is caused by sexism, you know...
Concerning the bolded portion, which method would you consider more effective at correcting this issue:
1) Silence
2) Sharing information
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It's more like, "you deserve X amount of space to talk, to walk, to sit, to be," and that amount differs based on a person's gender.
Or it, you know, differs based upon a person's size, since no two people are the exact same size or take up the exact same space, despite some people thinking that everyone should.
Of course, since there DOES tend to be an 'average size difference' between genders, some could instead think it's all a plot by 'the patriarchy' to oppress women by denying them an equal (non-adjusted) space and thus relegate them to 3rd class citizens or something. I dunno, I'm not up on all that hip lingo. What gets me is when it's called 'sexism' because the Accused doesn't think the same way as the Accuser and thus must be clearly wrong and/or doing it on purpose as part of a nefarious plot.
The clearest proof it's not some grant sexist plot by 'the patriarchy' (aside from Occam's Razor) is simply that if it WAS, the seats would all be Lazy Boy recliners with twin cupholders and built-in TV remotes. Or, if you prefer seriousness, seats about 1.5 times as big, which would incidentally give more room for women to be comfortable too. Hhhmmm.. Such a system doesn't really sound all that bad, come to think of it.
Concerning the bolded portion, which method would you consider more effective at correcting this issue:
1) Silence
2) Sharing information
3) Politely asking them to make room so that you can sit down. You're in a public social space. It's perfectly reasonable to use (and expect) social interaction to achieve your goals.
Please. Unless it's just more of "this isn't really a feminist issue." Talking about a phenomenon that exemplifies the (most likely non-malicious in intent and unconscious) habit of many men to take up more space than women, to seemingly feel entitled to more space than women is an issue of gender equality. It's possible to address something like this while also caring about and addressing more severe gender inequalities. I'm not in the mood for straw-feminists.What makes you think they are doing it because they feel entitled to more space than women?
Most likely, the majority of those people simply don't realize the space they are occupying or don't have much choice due to height and whatnot... And some of them are douches who don't care if they are inconveniencing others (male or female), but I doubt any of them is doing it specifically because they think women deserve less space.
Not every reprehensible behavior is caused by sexism, you know...
Concerning the bolded portion, which method would you consider more effective at correcting this issue:
1) Silence
2) Sharing information
"Excuse me, may I sit there?" usually works. The person will automatically try to open space for you to sit (unless they are one of the douches, but thankfully, those are the exception, not the rule).
This is an observed, repeating, constant rift between how men and women behave in public space.
People are entitled to what they need. Need more space, take more space.
Yes. Men and women act differently in public. They are different. No patriarchy required.
Yes. Men and women act differently in public. They are different. No patriarchy required.
Careful, friend. Your words are treading dangerously close to High Heresy. The Inquisition will be on to you soon if you continue with such nefarious language. ;)
Please. Unless it's just more of "this isn't really a feminist issue." Talking about a phenomenon that exemplifies the (most likely non-malicious in intent and unconscious) habit of many men to take up more space than women, to seemingly feel entitled to more space than women is an issue of gender equality. It's possible to address something like this while also caring about and addressing more severe gender inequalities. I'm not in the mood for straw-feminists.I guess my question is: what makes you think that the condemnation of manspreading is largely the concern of (white) upper-class feminists?I thought Citizen K(e)rensky's answer was sufficient for this one. If not, I can come back to it.
That's alright. In case you didn't know, I'm not a feminist. I don't care one way or the other whether something is or isn't really a feminist issue, because I'm pretty contemptuous of petty-bourgeois liberal feminism. Less so of so-called "socalist-feminism" but, to be honest, I've always thought that position was a cop out.
As of right now, I am waiting for Mrs. Comrade to come back from buying weed before our final planning meeting for this weekend's anti-police brutality rally in Lowell, so I am afraid I don't have the time at the moment to go through the article and pictures that have been presented in this thread thus far. Might not have a chance until Sunday, actually.
Until then,
Down with Petty-Bourgeois Feminism!
For Woman's Liberation through Socialist Revolution!
That being said, I couldn't help but came back and post this one:
MTA Raises Fares Due to Budget Constraints, Has Money To Stop ‘Manspreading’
"New York’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) announced it is raising bus and subway fares due to budget constraints, a week after spending over $76,000 to stop 'manspreading.'"
Thanks, feminists!
Want? No.If you "needed" the space, you wouldn't be able to make room when asked as others are saying.
That does not follow at all. Need comes in levels. I need oxygen more than I need to not do a rendition of a certain Tchaikovsky ballet but I still need both.
That guy posted above needs both seats. Whether he needs the entire two seats or if he can squeeze down to 1 1/2 seats is pretty meaningless.
Also, if its a matter of want instead of need, whose wants are more important? The women fit in the car, so by your own argument they don't need the space either. How do you compare them? More importantly since you're taking it upon yourself to tell someone else to correct their behavior your argument that their behavior is wrong needs to be better than two people want something so you can't have it. Saying that its X amouont of square feet per person ignores physics, and even making it proportional to size ignores ergonomics.
No one is saying it's some great sexist plot by the patriarchy or that the Accused is doing it on purpose as part of some nefarious plot.
She literally said that the reason men sit with spread legs is because they think women deserve less space. She even says it's the "same old boring patriarchal system"...
Which works for guys. And would work for women too, but it's harder. Men are, as has been said, generally larger and those taking up the extra space are probably on the large end of that. That makes them more intimidating and less approachable. Further women tend to be, as a result of nature, of socialization, or simply of good sense and caution, less aggressive about approaching strange men.
So most of these guys would probably move for women if asked, but women are less likely to ask than men.
As a result of the same gender dynamics we're talking about in the first place.Maybe don't wait to be asked? If someone comes in and there isn't a lot of room, take the initiative to make space.
Most of those guys probably don't even realize how much space they are taking. How will they correct it if they don't even know it's a problem? Sure, they could be more aware of themselves and their surrounding, but if they aren't, you won't fix it by silently taking pictures of them.
Until we all get connected to some sort of hive mind, the fact is that people have to communicate with one another if they want their feelings and thoughts to be known. If you decide to stay silent, don't be surprised when no one notices your discomfort.
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No one is saying it's some great sexist plot by the patriarchy or that the Accused is doing it on purpose as part of some nefarious plot.
Clearly you missed the part before the "and/or", which still applies even if you accuse the humorously exaggerated portion of being a strawman and thus easily dismissable. Dismissing the previous point, and not even acknowledging it in your reply means that either you missed it or would rather not bring it up against it contradicts your demolition of the 'strawman'.
Mechapoet has explicitly stated it's largely "most likely non-malicious in intent and unconscious".
Which doesn't mean it isn't worth trying to correct.
It does not, however, mean it's not part of a patriarchal system. In fact, for fun, here's the quoted part where he says it was:
just the same old boring patriarchal systems at work that create men who feel they deserve more space than that system teaches women that they deserve.
Neat how that works. This is indeed "the Accused doesn't think the same way as the Accuser and thus must be clearly wrong". You know, the portion you skipped.
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Which works for guys. And would work for women too, but it's harder.
Social interaction is harder for women? Needless to say, that was not on the list of expected responses.
Men are, as has been said, generally larger and those taking up the extra space are probably on the large end of that. That makes them more intimidating and less approachable.
You do realize that people sitting down appear smaller than you because, well, they're on a lower level, right? People are generally much less intimidating when they are sitting down. This makes the 'oh no, it's a bigger, scary man' argument seem less impressive.
Furthermore, this discriminates against 'big' men. Apparently they are seen as vicious, churlish, aggressive brutes merely because of their size. That sounds downright sexist to me.Further women tend to be, as a result of nature, of socialization, or simply of good sense and caution, less aggressive about approaching strange men.
Well, I will neither confirm or deny, but I will point out that anyone approaching this social interaction from an aggressive standpoint will probably get a snarky verbal response, at the very least, with an entire spectrum of harsher responses depending on the approach and the individuals.
Fortunately, this is why I suggested politeness.So most of these guys would probably move for women if asked, but women are less likely to ask than men.
Apparently due to inherent sexism in assuming they are hostile threats and/or due to a lack of inherent aggression. If we go with your motivations and reasoning, of course. Fortunately, there is another option.
As a result of the same gender dynamics we're talking about in the first place.
Half of which are genetic factors under no conscious control and the other half of which are by poor choices (ie: an aggressive response instead of a polite one). Yes, if someone backs themselves into a corner assuming these are the only two possibilities, it's easy to see how they would come to such a conclusion.
Maybe don't wait to be asked? If someone comes in and there isn't a lot of room, take the initiative to make space.
And that's nice, from 'personal initiative' of the person offering up the space. But expecting it of them is wrong. Of course, back in the day, there was a time when a man would happily and politely offer up his spot to a woman in need.
Some people grew upset at that, however.
Given their apparent problems with overcrowding, if the campaign has any actual effect, it might actually help their budget problems.Labor: Smash the Taylor Laws!
For mass investment in public transportation!
If you're taking up two seats and someone else doesn't have room to sit, it doesn't take a hive mind to realize it.
If that were the only case seen in that picture, and it was labeled "people who take too much space in public transportation" rather than a term specifically coined to imply that only men are guilty of it, then I wouldn't have any problem with it.
But that's not the case... There are a bunch of pictures of guys who are too tall/fat/whatever to comfortably sit in a single seat (and I'm betting most of them would squeeze to give you space anyway if you bothered to say 'excuse, is this seat taken?").
There are pictures complaining about guys "manspreading" in a wagon that is mostly empty. And others where their legs are not even all that spread (there is a very obvious reason why men keep their legs apart when they sit). And others where the guy's fallen asleep... The subway isn't exactly the most comfortable place to sleep, so I'd guess most of those men are pretty tired.
I'm 6'4" and I barely fit in bus seats. The reason I don't cross legs or sit with knees together is because it hurts, not because I think other people (male or female) deserve less space than me. I see men taller than me all the time. I imagine it must be even worse for them. I try to not take a lot of space, but I'm sure at some point in time I was distracted and occupied more place than necessary without noticing... Apparently due to some innate sexism that I was unaware existed in me.
Hell, I "Need" to lie down and stretch out over three or four seats and throw my bag on another one. Who are you to tell me your need to sit at all is more important than mine to lie down?
Pick up bag. Drop bag on solar plexus. Sit down.
I need to sit in reasonable comfort. Someone else needs to sit in reasonable comfort. Their same need outweighs mine because....?
If you really absolutely cannot physically fit in one seat, that's one thing. Other than extremely obese people, that's not generally true.
Oh come on. those seats were designed by midgets. As soon as you pass 6 feet you're making an escape artist check not to bleed over into the other seat in some direction.
If you can squeeze over to make room for someone else to sit rather than stand, do so, even if you're less comfortable that way.
I stand so someone else can sit? How does that work out.
Might not have a chance until Sunday, actually.
As it turns out, I'm gonna be up late tonight.
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I guess my question is: what makes you think that the condemnation of manspreading is largely the concern of (white) upper-class feminists?
Man-spreading, a transit controversy with legs
In this article, and correct me if I am overlooking something, the three anti-manspreading spokespeople are: a professor of English, a policy analyst and a president of an image management firm.
Huh, that's really all the documents that have presented thus far? Leaving aside pictures of coyotes and what not, not much to work with.
While I am a transwoman and feminist this issue seems to be more one of physics than sexism. I personally find it impossible to sit with my legs crossed due to my male genitalia and even keeping my legs together is painful, manspreading is simply how I naturally sit and I don't really have any options about that.
Also, speaking just from personal experience(anecdotal evidence, not worth much, but still) whether a person is a dick to you on the subway rarely seems to depend on if they have an actual dick.
Random articles spat out by Google:
A Scourge Is Spreading. M.T.A.’s Cure? Dude, Close Your Legs.
Anti-manspreading spokesperson: Kelly Rae O'Donnell, actress.
Subway ‘manspreading’ ads debut to shame bro riders
Not sure if Ms. Kothe qualifies as a spokesperson, but I do notice that she is an acupuncturist from a neighborhood in Brooklyn that, according to wikipedia, is 80% white with a median household income of over $60,000.
I also note the reference to signs about not dancing on poles. I wonder if that is in reference to the spate of police harassment of youth of color for dancing in subways? But I am not a NYer.
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Again, not much to go on, but that's a whole page of Google results after getting rid of the Breitbart Report articles and MRA pages.
Of course, I only heard about manspreading last week? The week before? If Citizen Poet, or anyone else for that matter, would like to provide counterexamples, I'd be more than happy to peruse them.
But, I must say, after a year that gave us Hollaback!'s racist piece of shiznit video about catcalling and Shirtgate and, now, manspreading, it's gonna be kinda hard to convince me that the latest cause du jour in the international sisterhood's blogosphere isn't yet another upper-middle class (white?) feminist shibboleth that doesn't have much to say to the oppression of working class and minority women.
To be fair the image analyst just says it's improper to slouch and take up space whatever your gender. I realize it's a finw distinction for a communist since etiquette is an elietist concept.
Piss off, stooge.
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Fair enough, Alex. I just got excited at the words "president of image management company." You're right, she was brought into the article for an entirely different reason.
If we're debating physiology and sex (yes, sex, not gender), then how much should women pay for their restaurant meals? Given they have a lower average weight than men and, again on average, eat less than men? Is it fair that they have to pay the same price as a man for a portion that they don't need as much of? Would it be fair that men should pay more for the same service than women (getting fed)?
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Googled around a bit and ran across the following article which I thought pretty well summarized my take on looking at the pictures from the website Citizen Poet linked above. Saves me from having to look through more photos.
'Manspreading'? But women hog subway space, too
"In the past year, I've tried to watch for subway space-hogging patterns myself. The worst case I saw was a woman sitting at a half turn with her purse next to her, occupying at least two and possibly three seats. Granted it was in a half-empty car, but the same seems to be true in most photos posted by activists to shame 'manspreaders.' Incidentally, in some of those photos, you can spot female passengers taking up extra space -- sometimes because of the way they cross their legs."
(Emphasis added)
"Yes, men tend to sit with their legs apart. (Many will tell you it's an issue of comfort and, well, male anatomy.) I haven't seen many do so in a way that inconveniences others. Indeed, the supposed offenders in some of the shaming photos are clearly not spreading beyond their own seats. It's also worth noting that when criticisms of bad subway manners first began to show up on the Internet five years ago, no one seemed particularly exercised about male postures. When street artist Jason Shelowitz (or Jay Shells) surveyed New Yorkers about subway etiquette violations for a series of posters in 2010, nail clipping topped the list, followed by religion and noise pollution. "Physical contact" and disregard of seating priority were also mentioned, but with no regard to gender."
(Emphasis added)
Which makes me wonder, again, whether the issue isn't the taking up of space but rather the effrontery to petit-bourgeois feminist mores of males spreading their legs and showing off their crotch.
If we're debating physiology and sex (yes, sex, not gender), then how much should women pay for their restaurant meals? Given they have a lower average weight than men and, again on average, eat less than men? Is it fair that they have to pay the same price as a man for a portion that they don't need as much of? Would it be fair that men should pay more for the same service than women (getting fed)?
Actually... the exact opposite was historically a genuine problem, where restaurants, knowing that there is an inherent variation in the size of steaks and other such food portions, would intentionally give the smaller portions to female patrons, while charging the same amount. I witnessed this happening countless times while growing up, and unlike my mother, refused to put up with it and would often complain, especially when it was clear that the portion I had received, for ordering the exact same meal as my father, brother, etc, was only 2/3 the size.
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In completely other news, I am up late tonight because I had a long conversation with la Principessa. She was crying, again, and, as I tried to make her feel better, I spoke over her.
Well, she stopped crying, alright, but only because she then yelled at me.
"I'm sorry, baby--" "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"I'm really sorry, baby--" "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Anyway, I got off the phone, went on the internet and discovered that she had blown up my Facebook private messaging.
"I'm sorry baby, I love you, good night."
"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Convinced her that her thinking that I didn't listen to her was killing me, got her back on the phone, talked for another hour and a half, she finally apologized for yelling at me, I apologized again for speaking over her, and then made her giggle by telling her how Paizonians were repeating my line, via private messages, about putting hobgoblins in caves. "Oh, I miss you," she purred.
Women.
Unfortunately Yugasa, you know that to a certain contingent of 'feminst' (who as far as I'm aware is not represented by anyone in this thread) your views on feminism and patriarchy are invalid.
That is true, although I am not sure what it has to do with the current conversation.
More serious than taking up more space while sitting, or so it seems to me, is guys going berserk on dance floors and endangering or intimidating women, who are smaller typically.
I have intervened a couple of times, once by telling the guy what he was doing and asking him to calm down and move away, politely so there was less chance of starting a fight. The other by placing myself between the offenders and the 2 scared looking ladies. They even thanked me on the way out. Taking me home for 3 way sex was more indicated. :P
While I am a transwoman and feminist this issue seems to be more one of physics than sexism. I personally find it impossible to sit with my legs crossed due to my male genitalia and even keeping my legs together is painful, manspreading is simply how I naturally sit and I don't really have any options about that.
Also, speaking just from personal experience(anecdotal evidence, not worth much, but still) whether a person is a dick to you on the subway rarely seems to depend on if they have an actual dick.
Can I ask how well you are accepted in the roleplaying community?
Can I ask how well you are accepted in the roleplaying community?While I am a transwoman and feminist this issue seems to be more one of physics than sexism. I personally find it impossible to sit with my legs crossed due to my male genitalia and even keeping my legs together is painful, manspreading is simply how I naturally sit and I don't really have any options about that.
Also, speaking just from personal experience(anecdotal evidence, not worth much, but still) whether a person is a dick to you on the subway rarely seems to depend on if they have an actual dick.
In real life I only play RPGs with friends so I am well accepted and while I play and GM PBPs online alot I'm not really sure who of my players know what for sure, though one of my GMs know and is supportive.
It's not something I hide it just doesn't really come up in PBP situations, though if they read some other threads on Paizo they know.
So, I haven't encountered any problems personally and have been well accepted each time it has come up so far.
If we're debating physiology and sex (yes, sex, not gender), then how much should women pay for their restaurant meals? Given they have a lower average weight than men and, again on average, eat less than men? Is it fair that they have to pay the same price as a man for a portion that they don't need as much of? Would it be fair that men should pay more for the same service than women (getting fed)?Actually... the exact opposite was historically a genuine problem, where restaurants, knowing that there is an inherent variation in the size of steaks and other such food portions, would intentionally give the smaller portions to female patrons, while charging the same amount. I witnessed this happening countless times while growing up, and unlike my mother, refused to put up with it and would often complain, especially when it was clear that the portion I had received, for ordering the exact same meal as my father, brother, etc, was only 2/3 the size.
What would you consider a fair solution?
What would you consider a fair solution?If we're debating physiology and sex (yes, sex, not gender), then how much should women pay for their restaurant meals? Given they have a lower average weight than men and, again on average, eat less than men? Is it fair that they have to pay the same price as a man for a portion that they don't need as much of? Would it be fair that men should pay more for the same service than women (getting fed)?Actually... the exact opposite was historically a genuine problem, where restaurants, knowing that there is an inherent variation in the size of steaks and other such food portions, would intentionally give the smaller portions to female patrons, while charging the same amount. I witnessed this happening countless times while growing up, and unlike my mother, refused to put up with it and would often complain, especially when it was clear that the portion I had received, for ordering the exact same meal as my father, brother, etc, was only 2/3 the size.
Having differently sized portions on the menu so that each patron can pick which one they want?
For individual meals, that's not a real issue... Assuming the restaurant is giving equally-sized meals to everyone, the price there is saying "you pay X money for Y amount of food. What you do with it is your problem", and the restaurant has no obligation to allow you to customize your order beyond what's on the menu. You could take a single bite, throw everything else on the dumpster and the restaurant would still be perfectly justified in charging you the same price for that portion of food. They did put the same effort and used the same amount of ingredients for your food after all (unless they are given differently sized meals, which is a different problem).
That said, it's a real problem for shared meals. Which is why I prefer to pay separately. I can eat a lot, so unless my friends insist on splitting the bill equally (usually done to save time or spare us the effort of calculating how much each one of us consumed), I'll calculate what I spent and pay that. This way no one has to pay for what I ate.
When we ask for large portions of stuff, I'll either ask one in separate for me, or share one with someone who eats about as much as I do. For parties and other gatherings where every one brings some food/drinks for the party, I try to always bring a little more than I consume.
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Actually... the exact opposite was historically a genuine problem, where restaurants, knowing that there is an inherent variation in the size of steaks and other such food portions, would intentionally give the smaller portions to female patrons, while charging the same amount. I witnessed this happening countless times while growing up, and unlike my mother, refused to put up with it and would often complain, especially when it was clear that the portion I had received, for ordering the exact same meal as my father, brother, etc, was only 2/3 the size.
Use the 10% discount you got from your car insurance and get 2.
Consider this: a restaurant's expenses for the customer are the costs for meat, veggies etc, salaries for the staff, energy and insurances, the location, ad campaigns, etc. Of all these, only the food costs more for a big eater. Should men then be forced to pay a significant markup for insurance, ad campaigns and so on?
Another way to view it is that the customer pays to get fed. Is it reasonable that someone bigger should pay more for the exact same service?