In the encounter with mindslaver mold, should Finngarth and the mold be treated as separate entities, and how should the players be made aware that there are two targets to attack? Otherwise I envisage them just attacking the man who is wailing on them with a battleaxe and quickly dispatching him.
i've been wondering this as well, hmm i will think on it, and check my Linnorm Kingdoms book
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Here's a glimpse at the mockup I did for the players for The Haunted Village encounter on the way to Whitethrone.
Reign of Winter - The Shackled Hut - The Haunted Village - 3D Terrain Image.
Nice set-up and set-up. Thanks for sharing
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I will have another set up in todays session for the troll bridge but can't post it yet until the players finish it. :)
I will have another set up in todays session for the troll bridge but can't post it yet until the players finish it. :)
I'd love to see it! I'm actually thinking of skipping the haunted village, but the troll bridge is a must.
Still waiting on pictures from our camera wielding player of the trollbridge put here is the Fishcamps scene from yesterday.
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In the encounter with mindslaver mold, should Finngarth and the mold be treated as separate entities, and how should the players be made aware that there are two targets to attack? Otherwise I envisage them just attacking the man who is wailing on them with a battleaxe and quickly dispatching him.
This is my interpretation (though I wouldn't be surprised if Rob actually created the mold himself, as he was an author on that book and he's made creepy fungi creatures before).
They are definitely separate creatures that are inhabiting the same square. The mold's avoidance special ability is NOT based mechanically on whether the PCs know that it is there or not. They can be fully aware of it and the mold's avoidance ability still works. So once they are aware, they can target the mold, but the mold still has a chance to use avoidance against that attack.
When are they aware? That is a GM decision, but Darrell Imprey's suggestion is certainly a valid one. If the PCs are having a tough time, I can also see just telling them outright once they're very close or adjacent. The huldra never knew because she never got that close to Finngarth.
Otherwise I envisage them just attacking the man who is wailing on them with a battleaxe and quickly dispatching him.
I would discourage that honestly. The encounter has a story and that approach is really letting a lack of mechanical explanation do the GMing for you. Please understand I'm not saying this harshly nor am I judging you. Just remember, this game has a GM for a reason and part of the GM's role is to tell a good story. If the players just cut this helpless guy down, that's a pretty pathetic and pointless story.
Give them a clue or a chance to figure out and be heroes. If they accidentally take him out because they can't take a hint or the mold is just too crafty and successful at avoiding their attacks—well that's different.
Here is the Troll Bridge encounter:
In the encounter with mindslaver mold, should Finngarth and the mold be treated as separate entities, and how should the players be made aware that there are two targets to attack? Otherwise I envisage them just attacking the man who is wailing on them with a battleaxe and quickly dispatching him.
I did separate initiatives for them and the party initially did not realize they were separate entities and started to murderlate Finngarth.
It was only when I foolishly had the mold shoot out a spore and a PC asked if that provoked an AoO and I said yes but not on the guy that they had their "Aha!" moment and figured out what was going on.
I also had a dozen 1 hp mold-enslaved goblins attacking in waves to liven up that solo fight.
Even having both the Linnorms King book and this one I wanted more background on the mold. I really like the idea of enchanting nature spirit fey manifesting as psychedelic mold that charms and enslaves you.
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I would discourage that honestly. The encounter has a story and that approach is really letting a lack of mechanical explanation do the GMing for you. Please understand I'm not saying this harshly nor am I judging you. Just remember, this game has a GM for a reason and part of the GM's role is to tell a good story. If the players just cut this helpless guy down, that's a pretty pathetic and pointless story.
Its not a pathetic story, its a horrific and tragic one.
They cut down the man but the mold is still active and attacking them, spitting out spores and perhaps enslaving a PC. They then realize that the guy they killed was a dominated slave, not the troll villain they thought, realize the mold is the villain and take out the mold. Looking for the captured husband they realize they are the ones who killed him.
And then they have to tell the widow. Who then wails in grief and tries to magically charm a PC into being a replacement husband, possibly leading to a confrontation with her.
Dark grim Irrisen fairy tale in the making.
Its not a pathetic story, its a horrific and tragic one.
They cut down the man but the mold is still active and attacking them, spitting out spores and perhaps enslaving a PC. They then realize that the guy they killed was a dominated slave, not the troll villain they thought, realize the mold is the villain and take out the mold. Looking for the captured husband they realize they are the ones who killed him.
And then they have to tell the widow. Who then wails in grief and tries to magically charm a PC into being a replacement husband, possibly leading to a confrontation with her.
Dark grim Irrisen fairy tale in the making.
Well.. You're right. That was a harsh thing for me to say. I just feel cautious about tricking players. Tricking PC's? Awesome. Tricking players? Eeeh. I think there should be a chance, as you described in your example.
Since I wrote this adventure, I have to concede it is dark, grim, fairy tale—with tragedy and horror. Thank you very much for the praise! Very kind of you!
EDIT: Seriously, thanks for the reminder. I sometimes have to put my grim, horror hat on in order to meet the needs of the assignment.
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My players are starting the Shackled Hut and one character got affected by a Blindness Spell and no one can cast Remove Blindness yet, so they will need to make a detour before going with Nadya route (Waldsby don't have a scroll to sell). I am studing the Irrisen sourcebook and making some subplots based on characters background, but i would like to hear ideas of where to put someone capable of casting or a scroll with the spell during the initial act.
Cure Blindness/Deafness is a 3rd level Cleric Spell. Under the settlements rules Waldsby has a 75% chance of being able to come up with a item of less than 500gp. I ran into a similar situation with blindness and I just added one to Doomsayer Katrina Goltiaeva's scroll stock at the white weasel. The AP book also says that she sells scrolls at a 20% markup over base value and that she stockpiles them.
That is unless the PC's killed her in the White Weasel encounter.
I had Mig Epsel, the cook - whom the PCs had inexplicably spared - have a cookie that was basically a potion of Remove Blindness. He had a few others with random effects on them as well, and gave them out as treats while he traveled with the party to the next town.
What would be the best undead to turn Nazheda into, once she failed at her task and had to be sent out on a mission of redemption?
Heh. If her fellow White Witches killed her and reanimated her, she isn't really on a mission for redemption anymore.
If the PCs actually killed her, my suggestion is an advanced revenant that retains her class levels, which should be about a CR 10 critter. With her new int score being a bit lower (16 I think - 11 from advanced revanant, +4 from being a monster with class levels, +1 from the class levels), she's now a significant physical threat. I'd apply the Reason to Hate ability vs. the entire party.
Wait... what does "As long as the murderer exists, the revenant exists." actually mean? Does it reanimate 24 hours later? That is MEAN, but I like it. It sounds like just having some spell caster in the employ of the White Witches recover and teleport the shrieking corpse to the party over and over again would be such a horror.
I would discourage that honestly. The encounter has a story and that approach is really letting a lack of mechanical explanation do the GMing for you. Please understand I'm not saying this harshly nor am I judging you. Just remember, this game has a GM for a reason and part of the GM's role is to tell a good story. If the players just cut this helpless guy down, that's a pretty pathetic and pointless story.
Thanks for the reply Jim, sorry it's taken a few days to get back to you! I completely agree with what you said, and my original post wasn't clear. I love the story with the mindslaver mold and definitely want my players to experience it, I'm just a very new DM and I am sometimes not clear on the mechanics. I feel a bit cheap just saying "BTW there are two targets!" and I wondered if there are standardised methods for them realising. I am getting better though!
ANNOYINGLY, I somehow managed to miss the mindslaver mold encounter when I ran my players through the area last week. I don't know what came over me, but I totally blanked. I even had the pawns and map ready for it. Now I need to see if I can slot it in somewhere... they have got to the Fishcamps so I'm not sure where I can make room for it! I am an idiot.
Have her meet the PCs at the edge of town and ask for their help. She and her husband actually live a couple hours outside of town but she went to the city to try and get help.
My players are currently halfway through the first floor of the clock tower, and likely to fight (a juvenile) Logrivich next session. I can envision some scenarios in which the party retreats before they get up to him. What would Logrivich do after learning that his support staff is dead? I don't think he'd just linger around and wait for the party to come back to kill him.
I'm envisioning him teaming up with Nazhena in the woods. That would make for something of a brutal fight, so probably not. Besides, they have to kill the dragon before the guards rise up to allow them entry to the woods, according to the plan. (That can change, of course.)
So... fly about town and kill a bunch of kids? (That seems to motivate my PCs for some reason.) Find a new set of guards and stick them in the tower? Move the fight to an entirely different area? Try to trace the PCs as agents of the Heralds and uncover their hideout, leading to wider ramifications? (All this presumably after finding a safe place to store his loot.)
Anybody have some good ideas?
He's a dragon. He thinks he's better than a bunch of trolls. He'll stay there and plan on ambushing the party. Don't forget he has spider-climb for ice... and if you bump him up to Juvenile, fog cloud which doesn't impede him at all. (If they retreat to rest up, bump him up one age category so he'll be a challenge.)
The woods doesn't happen until Logrovich dies - at the moment, the Winter Guard is keeping the woods down to a manageable grove. It's not until Logrovich is killed and the Iron Guard rises up, pulling the Winter Guard off of woods suppression, that the forest expands into the mess that the party will face Nazhena in.
I don't picture Logrovich abandoning the tower - it's his after all. He's far more likely to pull reinforcements in. Logrovich can pretty much get whatever he wants.
I'd view attacking the tower and falling back to be a very bad idea, just for that reason.
Especially if the party kills the Jadwiga witch in the tower and then leaves.
The woods doesn't happen until Logrovich dies - at the moment, the Winter Guard is keeping the woods down to a manageable grove. It's not until Logrovich is killed and the Iron Guard rises up, pulling the Winter Guard off of woods suppression, that the forest expands into the mess that the party will face Nazhena in.
I don't picture Logrovich abandoning the tower - it's his after all. He's far more likely to pull reinforcements in. Logrovich can pretty much get whatever he wants.
I'd view attacking the tower and falling back to be a very bad idea, just for that reason.
Especially if the party kills the Jadwiga witch in the tower and then leaves.
I am pretty much with Zhangar here. If the party is going to TPK if they can't get a rest, then you need to be creative in order to keep this realistic. Bear in mind I wrote this so they would hit the Tower fresh, with full hit points and all their spells.
So what I am saying is that the party should NOT be leaving for their own convenience. This is not a static tomb crawl that will be there tomorrow waiting for them. This is an organic situation that could get ugly as hell, if left half-done.
This is where the game needs a thinking GM. If the Tower is just plain hard for the group, then you should have a plan where they're not being punished.
If the party is just trying to minimize their risk by resting before the BBEG? Restock that whole structure with monsters. Put them on alert and make the whole Tower harder than it was yesterday. That's my opinion and in this case its more personal than professional.
Honestly if they don't get Logrivich in the first run and I wanted to be realistic (over fun game play) about the consequences? That whole section of the city would be locked down and you'd have mirrormen and ice trolls crawling all over the streets and in and outside that building. DESPITE THAT, I would not do that to a party that was honestly challenged or suffered bad luck. That's where you need to make a judgment call.
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One thing you could do if the party is out of healing and wounded going into this encounter is have them find a cache of healing potions - enough to get them up to full hit points at least. Or maybe a wand of Cure Light Wounds with 12-15 charges on it. That way they can heal up and feel like they have a choice in the matter... and you can also have players make a Local Knowledge or perhaps Wisdom check and if they make it, point out that it's likely the place will be reinforced significantly if they retreat.
I like to think I'm a thinking GM. That's why I'm asking for different perspectives on what might happen, so I can be prepared if it goes to that.
My PCs did start the tower full up, and they have plenty of healing. I think they know that retreat is a bad idea, and they are responding really well to the threat against the children and Bella. In a few situations, though, I think they still might fall back. If the archer gets blinded by Granny Nan, for instance, or the spellcasters get their voices stolen by the attic whisperer, they might flee. Would you punish them for that?
Would you qualify that as bad luck, Jim, or just a lack of preparedness? (The archer really needs to be carrying a potion of Remove Blindness. Maybe they'll learn if it happens again.)
In a tangentially related question, where does it say that white dragons can see through fog? Thy can definitely see through snow, but I don't see where the racial benefit lets them cut through fog.
If the archer gets blinded by Granny Nan, for instance, or the spellcasters get their voices stolen by the attic whisperer, they might flee. Would you punish them for that?
Would you qualify that as bad luck, Jim, or just a lack of preparedness? (The archer really needs to be carrying a potion of Remove Blindness. Maybe they'll learn if it happens again.)
Mostly bad luck, but the stolen voice will return in one hour. Hopefully they'll have cleared the lower levels and can just just chill for an hour and then proceed. Though Bella and the kids might make that problematic. The blindness would definitely be bad luck, because that is making the party down one player character.
I was probably crabby yesterday evening. Working on a deadline.
Some perspective: a lot of the feedback I've gotten is that people really enjoyed The Shackled Hut but found it to be too easy. Just short of the required challenge. I look at a situation like this and I wonder, has this been an issue all along? Have GMs been allowing groups to rest halfway? It really doesn't matter now because the work is finished and published, but it makes me wonder.
In conclusion: bad luck. Despite my aggressive undertones, if they do their best and need to retreat.. I would not be too punitive.
Flamethrower: Any creature with blindsense can "see" through fog - people in the fog get concealment, yes. But there are plenty of ways around this, including breath weapons. ;)
Edit: You could also include a Potion of Restore Blindness/Deafness in the treasure.
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Edit: You could also include a Potion of Restore Blindness/Deafness in the treasure.
Immediate treasure that completely heals the witch's lasting curse seems too easy an out.
You could go creepier/gorier and have her blindness spell manifest by her plucking at the air, and the archer cries out in pain as his eyeballs manifest in her hand and he bleeds out of his empty sockets.
After they defeat her they can try to put them back in his sockets with a heal check but it takes a while for them to fully heal (1d4 days like the raven swarm inflicted blindness?) While they are readjusting back into his skull he has a -10 perception and a constant 50% miss chance but can still target. This way he can still meaningfully participate in combat but the blindness is still a significant factor.
This is how I decided the blindness would be implemented if more raven swarms were used after having half the party blinded back in Snows of Summer and the party camping out for days to heal it up.
I like to think I'm a thinking GM. That's why I'm asking for different perspectives on what might happen, so I can be prepared if it goes to that.
BTW, I can see my comment was more backhanded than I intended. My apologies. It was not my intent to imply you were not a thinking GM. In fact you have demonstarted that you ARE. Sincerely. :)
Authors sometimes get a lot of feedback that consists of "I did what it said in the book, despite the fact that I knew it wouldn't work because of the particular of my party, and it sucked. This whole thing sucks." Or, "I followed the tactics section despite the fact that I had a better idea. This adventure/scenario sucks."
The tactics section is advice. It can help brand new GMs. Its difficult to ascertain the make-up of the party and what is actually going to happen.
Those are the times when I want to encourage GMs to take control of their games—and when I said that, I was breaking the 4th wall and speaking to the game audience at large. Not you personally.
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Thank you for your opinions, everybody. They've been really helpful! Jim, don't worry about it. I really appreciate that you're so willing to answer questions, and so nice about it. Thank you, sincerely. :)
My party is already on edge about going to fight a dragon, and they might take an excuse like loss of their voice really hard.
Damn, Voadam. That's bone-chillingly awesome. I think I'll use that!
Authors sometimes get a lot of feedback that consists of "I did what it said in the book, despite the fact that I knew it wouldn't work because of the particular of my party, and it sucked. This whole thing sucks." Or, "I followed the tactics section despite the fact that I had a better idea. This adventure/scenario sucks."
Here is some positive feedback, my players thought that Granny Nan (Granny Goodness as they called her) was a fantastic creepy villain. I played up a lot of the reveals on her comforting the children and giving them hope to keep the fear chemicals down for the taste for the trolls. The Iron Guard Jadwiga PC kept saying how you have to admire her for her skill and dedication in her avocation.
I'm a little disappointed the new catfolk PC did not take up my offer for his background to have been crazy cat lady Granny's uplifted familiar who she was estranged from and chastising. His background of investigating missing orphans worked out well though as I had him hit a pentacle trap in her room that left him aware but frozen so she could monologue to him about how she loved her new job caring for her troll boys and their appetites and how her life had turned around under Queen Elvanna. He hated her so much and was really happy to be the one to cut her in half in the party's big fight with her.
You guys are most welcome and I appreciate you too. I learn things from these discussions. :)
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Stupid question time.
Given that the characters find a partially charged wand of spider climb among Marcian Enarxion's possessions in Fishcamps, and that Logrivich's tower is only 70 feet tall (climbable in three move actions), what's to stop them shinning up the outside of it rather than facing all of the trolls? (I was going to add "invisibly", but as it's only 10 seconds, that's probably not necessary.)
Logrovich has 60 ft blindsense, so sneaking up on him is really hard. Depending on where he's hanging out, he could immediately notice people trying to walk up the tower invisible.
the PC COULD do that, but Logrovich could just go down into the tower (Loggy's medium size, so he navigates the tower just fine) and get help.
At which point they're facing Loggy AND the trolls, and Granny.
Removing Loggy's possible back-up is the safer course.
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My group took roughly ten hours over three sessions to take on Logrivich's Clock Tower. It happened over the course of one in-game day, and they leveled (to six) partway through. The group is Jamion (Cleric of Nethys), Valgard (Viking fighter), Bergdis (Savage Skald Bard), Jexx (Silver dragon sorcerer), and Emma (Zen Archer Monk). Thank you much to everybody on here who helped make this as good as it was.
Rorgurt and Thukk didn't cause much of a problem, other than a stupidly successful bite/claw/claw/rend on Jamion, dropping him into the negatives. After they picked him up, he treated himself to a new flail he found in the room. (It would have been a long shot, but it was in the illustration!) Bonepick was a non-issue, ganked before he could even act. In the act of rescuing the children, the PCs realized that this was something far more sinister than a guard outpost. Amagarra gave a good fight, cleverly blockading the door and utilizing chokepoints and cover, but she ultimately fell.
They stormed into the next room, where Valgard tried to hold off all four trolls while everybody else encouraged this self-destructive behavior. Jamion and Bergdis kept him alive, while burning hands, fireballs, and alchemists fires eventually took care of the trolls.
Everybody trooped upstairs, and found their way to Inga's room first, where they actually suspected her of being a witch. Nevertheless, they took her to the other children. Next they broke down Granny Nan's door, where she and Evija had them in chaos, without actually causing any damage. Jamion fled, Valgard was held, Emma fell asleep, and Jexx and Bergdis lost their voices. I let Bergdis drum a countersong to negate the effect of the aura of sobs, and Jexx summoned a pair of riding dogs from his robe of useful things. Valgard recovered and cut down Granny Nan as she tried to flee through the wall, but Evija escaped upstairs.
Jexx was almost in tears after that encounter, and penned an all-caps memo saying "WE ARE LEAVING". They gathered up the kids and began the trek back to the Herald's hideout. With the two party diplomats unable to speak, I ended the session with them being stopped by a mirror man patrol. They leveled up here, and also came to the realization that if they tried to come back tomorrow, that would probably be pretty difficult.
Some smooth written conversation extracted the party from that mess, and they dropped the children off with the Heralds. Since they had their voices back, they traveled back to the tower, with a brief shopping trip in between. They got into it with Logrivich's reinforcements, one (1) mummy. This encounter came about on the spur of the moment because I was a little annoyed with the shopping trip, and wanted to see how my party would fare against a mummy. Turns out, quite poorly if I were a meaner DM. The mummy politely declined to coup de grace the paralyzed Jamion and Valgard when given the opportunity, instead opting to meekly hit them once each while getting shot full of arrows. Nobody even got mummy rot. I was a little disappointed with myself. :)
Anyway, the Gobbler was a fun little fight. I had considered putting Granny in the room to start with, and I see now that would have been a nasty fight.
Finally, Logrivich himself. I upgraded him to a juvenile, and gave him a potion of resist energy for fire. On top of that, I added some hit points, so with Evija in the room, it was quite a struggle. He had taken Bella, had Evija steal her voice, and laid her out on the ice balcony in the fog to lure them in that direction, which worked great. Valgard was the first to go toe-to-toe with the dragon, and came out the worse of the two parties, but Logrivich couldn't finish the deal before Valgard retreated. The party resisted the renewed attempts to steal their voices, and Jamion distinguished himself by lifting Bella out and carrying her back near the clockwork, to leave the balcony free for fireballs.
The fight featured a lot of natural ones on Logrivich's part (at least 5, including initiative), but his hit and run tactics were effective nonetheless. The party was well-buffed and well prepared, but the fog stymied them until Jexx summoned an air elemental to blow it away. He landed near Jamion to push the attack after a fireball, and the party found an avenue to channel a bunch of damage into him, including Jamion's Javelin of Lightning. (Logrivich couldn't save for anything.) Logrivich took advantage of Jamion's newly unarmed state to push him off the tower, knocking him right out of the fight.
Bergdis drew Logrivich into the room by messing with his hoard, and she took a near-fatal bite for her troubles. Summoning almost the last of his power, Jexx threw a Burning Hands where he thought the dragon was, before his second air elemental brushed away the fog again. An unconscious dragon was lying before them. They finished him off, picked up their companions, and set off the fireworks. Below them, the sounds of revolution filled the streets.
I will admit, it's things like this that make me glad I play GMPCs. When the group gets to this area (eventually), if they make noises about retreat, I'll have the GMPC point out the problem with reinforcements and needing to kill the dragon NOW.
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My group scoped out the place and watched for patterns of when the dragon flew out and for how long. Then they waited for him to do a patrol, invisibly flew up the outside and set up an ambush for Logrivich in his lair involving an invisible chain across his landing strip so he would come in at speed and trip.
I felt it was a good plan and said it worked. I buffed up Logrivich as a base and they got off a surprise round on a prone dragon.
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My players are currently in the Market square and were asking about the merchant shop Braga and the dead guards were holed up in, what did it sell?
I said dolls. Matryoshka dolls. They found a set with nested demon lord ladies (Lamashtu, Mestama, Nocticula, etc.). They found it creepy and Irrisen appropriate. The Iron Guard Jadwiga took those for his new kids they rescued from Granny who he now claims as his own family (which creeps out the child rescuer background catfolk PC).
They also found a set with nested queens of Irrisen.
Its never too early for foreshadowing!
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Must admit that the children are probably what I'm going to use to get the party to go through the rest of the tower.
Rereading, it only one round (50 feet) to the dragon's lair, certainly not enough time for him to summon help, and all of the walls, doors and background noise will prevent those on the lower floors hearing the battle. BUT, the PCs have still got to go down a floor to find/rescue Bella, and when she tells them that there are children being held prisoner on the lower levels they'll keep on going downwards.
I will admit, it's things like this that make me glad I play GMPCs. When the group gets to this area (eventually), if they make noises about retreat, I'll have the GMPC point out the problem with reinforcements and needing to kill the dragon NOW.
I don't like running GMPCs, so there's a definite style difference between us. That very well amounts to telling the PCs what to do, and anything the GMPC does runs the risk of taking the spotlight away from the PCs. While Nadya has traveled to Whitethrone with them, I've done my best to keep her out of combat because of that. The day they fought the dragon, Ringeirr had a job for her in the city.
GMPCs are good for some things, but with the state my group was in, no amount of GMPC pleading would have had an effect. With half of the group unable to speak and effectively incapacitated, there was no way they were going to wait out the hour in hostile territory with a now-alerted dragon and who knows what else in the tower. They knew the risks of leaving, they were only gone a few hours, and they had a good reason. I only threw in the mummy because Jexx decided to do some frivolous shopping on the way back. (If only they'd wait, I'd reduce the prices some...)
That's what I anticipated, and why I asked the questions above.
Here's an odd question - in The Snows of Summer, the group has a chance of finding a gold signet ring with the signet of the Jadwiga Tashanna on it. If the group held onto the signet ring, would it help boost the chance of forging identity papers (whether done by the players or by the NPC forger)? Or was the Jadwiga Tashanna completely wiped out by Baba Yaga?
Baba Yaga executed Tashanna's inner circle, along with Tashanna's soldiers and their immediate families. Any of Tashanna's grandkids who'd stayed completely out of Grandma's rebellion would've been left alone.
There's probably a lot less Tashanna Jadwiga than from most of the other queens, but there should still be some around.
Baba Yaga executed Tashanna's inner circle, along with Tashanna's soldiers and their immediate families. Any of Tashanna's grandkids who'd stayed completely out of Grandma's rebellion would've been left alone.
There's probably a lot less Tashanna Jadwiga than from most of the other queens, but there should still be some around.
I don't remember where they could have found this. Can you provide a reference? Maybe I just forgot about it.
The Witchwar Legacy, which takes place at the execution site.
Precision damage doesn't multiply with a critical hit, you know.
But yeah, sometimes you have to let the dice lie where they fall. It's not like Granny is the Big Bad of this segment in any case - she's just a Dragon to the dragon. ;)