What kind of things happen to a swallowed PC when encountering the gobbler? It's insides ac and hit points are listed, do you use the normal swallowed whole rules even though its a giant stove? I ran it tonight and was kinda mesmerized by it. Would the inside have hardness? Could you "cut your way out"?
Yes, there's no reason you wouldn't use the normal Universal Monster Rules.
What happens is that a swallowed creature takes 1d6 fire damage per round. They can try to cut their way out with a light slashing or piercing weapon. Yes, hardness applies! The stove is, after all, made of metal. After 5 hp is inflicted (after hardness) the swallowed creature can cut their way out.
The swallowed creature can, of course, grabble its way out.
Yes, being swallowed by the gobbler really, really sucks. It is literally baking the swallowed creature. Fortunately there are a couple alternative ways to injure it.
Hi Everyone
I have recently started my group off on this adventure. I am very excited as I fully expect them to make life very difficult for themselves (Group includes 2 Paladins in a NE City...)
I have been going through the first portion of the adventure and have come up with several questions that I was hoping to get some help with (so apologies for the long post)
- Do all enemies other than those with Icewalking suffer from half movement whilst out in the wilderness in the snow (I am mainly thinking of the Norgrimm in Event 4).
- Does Norgrimm sneak around the PCs using the snow as camouflage? I am having difficulty setting up encounters in vast open spaces (I simply assume that no one will be surprised in general)
- How harsh are people being / intending to be on resourcing the journey to Whitethrone. My group did not back any firewood. Should I be denying them access to a fire (and thus forcing hourly saves in the cold night)
So far I have ruled high enough Survival can find non frozen firewood and magical fire can light even frozen wood
- I think I have asked this before but when searching for food if 3 people (including Nadya) have survival is it reasonable for all 3 to check? Or should it be one per group?
And I also assume they need to find food for the dogs pulling the sled (4 dogs each so 20). What do people think a Dog's food consumption should be (perhaps make the 4 huskies count as one person?)
- Falcon Distract ability - as it must make an attack roll I assume this means it must be adjacent to the enemy to perform this? Because with AC14 and 8HP I do not see the falcons lasting very long with this tactic...
- Are the planned encounters (both Time and location based) supposed to reduce/remove random encounters
Because 30% encounter chance every 2 hours gives an average of 4 encounters per day for each of the 9 days.
This seems like an awful lot. Is there another way of reflecting the danger of the journey?
-E) Troll Bridge. Was DC13 Bluff/Intimidate the intention here. Because for a level 4 party this is very easy (especially for a CR6 encounter)
Or does this just reflect that many groups would draw weapons before even considering the above option?
- Does anyone have a rough idea of what size the Fishcamps guardhouse should be? And am I correct in my understanding that it is one main room with two rooms attached (one for the leader and one for the prisoner) ?
- Am I correct in thinking that Greta will still raise the alarm even if any member of the party ignore the advice over arms and armour (even if it is only one - which I fully expect to happen...
And on a similar note is anyone allowing any types of armour to be disguised under clothing (eg. chain shirts). Or should I assume that any armour worn will annoy Greta?
- If a scene is caused at the Howlings gate (again, something I fully expect in my group) what is the fall out likely to be. The way I see it is either -
1. Combat drags, move wolves turn up (what sort of gap? I imagine as per summoning guards in GM guide), PCs forced to flee to Fishcamps or die
2. Combat ends quickly, PCs flee into Howlings
For option 1 I cannot see how the PCs will then get into Whitethrone, unless they have some very good disguise checks
For option 2 would people rule that there are increased Winter wolf patrols / other patrols once they realize 2 of their own are dead at the gate
- How would the Snow goblins respond to diplomacy from a Rimepelt wearer. I assume this would not work as a Winter Wolf being diplomatic with goblins would be surprising and out of character?
- It is mentioned that the PCs might try to break into houses in the Howlings. I assume these could be occupied by Humans, Goblins or Winter Wolves? (The look on a PCs face as it breaks into a winter wolf house!)
- In G8 Ringeirr mentions that they must burn the trolls inside to avoid the Winter Guard coming down on them and that no one cares about Mirror men or goblins. But it does not mention what would happen if either of the prior 3 Winter wolf encounters end in the death of a wolf. Would that also lead to 'an army rampaging through the district' if they burn/leave them in the street?
Apologies for the long post. I am very excited about running this adventure but as probably hinted by my questions I am fully expecting my players to cause massive grief for themselves and would like to work out how best to respond in advance!
Thank you !
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*snip*
Please note that these are just how I ran these encounters/situations so please take everything with a grain of salt.
1- Most of the baddies encountered have some method of overcoming the movement penalty, snow shoes for the humans, and climate adaptations for the non humans like icewalking. Either that or the encounters take place in area's where there isn't deep enough snow to impede movement like at the wood cutters cottage.
2- I had him using camouflage/stealth while his guards attacked in the front to circle around behind the party and get at the casters etc who were stationed at the back.
3- I ruled that Nadya was an experienced guide being a major trader in the south so she could provide enough supplies to maintain if needed but if the party has another Druid or Ranger or other character with high survival skill I'd allow either an assist or independent survival checks to improve their condition.
4- That would probably be a reasonable requirement though to tell the truth I made the assumption that sine Nadya had food/equipment etc ready to go in the town for her trading runs. She would have brought enough food for her dogs for the expected duration of the trip, now if the trip ran long for some reason then survival checks would need to be made to supplement the food.
5- Yes the distract ability appears to require being adjacent to the target. And yes those falcon's arn't going to last long but there purpose is to distract the PCs from the real threat, the winter guard and their wolf commander, each attack focused on a falcon is one less that targets an actual threat.
6- I pretty much glossed out the randoms for the journey the encounters that are there are more than enough for what purpose they serve. I would say to increase tension put more emphasis on survival rolls against hazardous weather, or navigation in a bleak snowy wilderness without many landmarks. If you fail the requisite check you're fatigued as it required much more effort to complete your tasks.
7-Yeah the "trolls" are pretty much just that dumb....and a convincing bluff would scare them off they are bullies and viscous monsters but they arn't that bright and know they arn't supposed to be there. Presented with apparent authority I would expect them to fold like a wet paper towel.
8- I made it 40x40, and yes there are apparently two rooms off the main one where Ringirr is kept and one is the boss's bed room.
9-This would be a good chance for a role playing opportunity. Greta, I would expect would potentially react in a wide variety of ways depending on the situation. If one of the PC's is wearing the Rimepelt and succeeds in bluffing, the bluff would have to be better or maybe Greata would allow them in but still charge the entrance fee. I wouldn't have her sound the alarm unless the PC's were either obviously trying to hide something or acting openly threatening .
10- I would say increased patrols and much more difficult checks to bluff if the alarm is set off.
11-Probably react with suspicion as that is very un-wolf like and probably follow or ambush the party again later.
12- Yeah if the party is foolish enough to break into a house in a city district specifically said to be the quarters of probably several packs of winter wolves they may run into a pissed off wolf.
I would venture to say if you expect your players to have that many problems in dealing diplomatically, try and play up Ringierr and Nadya's advice as critical and direly important that they follow it. if they don't then...well they will have to pay for it with harder and more frequent encounters
Hope at least some of that helps.
Don't forget. If the party member wearing the Rimepelt is wearing armor, that won't be a problem. Winter Wolves are exempt from that rule.
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Jim -
Thanks for all the input concerning Logrovich!
The fight with him went well. I bumped him up to Juvenile and kept him in the air for almost the entire combat (he landed to get in a full attack once I knew he was beaten). I managed to drop half the party, without killing them outright. I utilized the fog cloud to completely obscure the "landing pad" and benefited greatly from the miss chance.
Granny Nan and the Gobbler (encountered after Logrovich as the PCs came down, clearing out the second story) were not as big a challenge thanks to not one, but two huge Critical hits by the party. They were on a roll. I had thought to have Nan join in the fray with Logrovich, but decided against it. I regretted not doing that afterward.
The fight with Nazhena went along the same lines as with the dragon. I dropped some PCs without actually killing them (my Players are almost as upset when they get knocked out of combat as when they die).
Our next session will see them actually enter the Hut, clear it out (the Golem) and finally get to try and use the thing.
Any suggestions on making the first encounter with the Hut more memorable/dramatic?
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Have it notice the PCs, stomp on the ground like a bull, start charging toward the PCs... and then screech to a stop, lean down, snuffle at them, and then do a little prance as it recognizes them. It will then bound about... and get caught up on the chain binding it. Then have it act almost wistful rattling the chain. ;)
Any suggestions on making the first encounter with the Hut more memorable/dramatic?
The ideas in Zorka's profile for how she'd interact with people could be pretty memorable if done right. Just don't make the PCs so mad that they actually try to kill her.
Have it notice the PCs, stomp on the ground like a bull, start charging toward the PCs... and then screech to a stop, lean down, snuffle at them, and then do a little prance as it recognizes them. It will then bound about... and get caught up on the chain binding it. Then have it act almost wistful rattling the chain. ;)
My players want to keep the hut...I half heard some comments about drag racing with it in the chariot races of Osirion...I mentioned that the last time they "killed" Baba Yaga she still came back and they had let the hut wander off.
I mentioned as an aside as I left last session, "If you really want to kill her off...the hut has to die too...it's her familiar!"
Their quasi retired characters are high enough in levels to have a decent chance to do the deed, especially since 1st ed. multi-classes...say a 15th bard who was a 7th fighter and a 8th thief seems to equal out to a 30th level 3.P character...their ftr/mage/thief leader is arch mage level plus the same in fighter and thief...18ftr/18mage/19thief [would that equal to 55th in 3.P???].
These character date back to the late 90's and are what they plan on using in the last 2 modules of the world wound arc.
Am I doing the math right or am I horribly wrong about class levels and the challenge rating? They REALLY want to use their retired heroes and Baba Yaga has been a thorn in their side for literally years now.
If you're translating them, have them make hard choices. Limit them to level 20. The 1st ed. bard could easily be a level 20 Pathfinder Bard (and let's face it, Killing Song makes up for the loss in levels), while the fighter/mage/thief could go for a level 20 Magus (which combines fighter and mage, or maybe a F2/T3/W5/EW (Eldritch Warrior) 10 (or scrap the thief altogether and have a W8 to have access to level 9 spells).
Thanks for the advice and I'll make some phone calls to my players about the conversions!
This is an awesome forum! Thanks again!
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With regard to getting into Whitethrone.
My players want to walk in dressed as soldiers (which would essentially skip Fishguts and the Howlings).
I can't think of any reason why this wouldn't work. The last group of soldiers they encountered (and killed) came from Whitethrone so they would have been carrying any papers required to get back in.
With regard to getting into Whitethrone.
My players want to walk in dressed as soldiers (which would essentially skip Fishguts and the Howlings).
I can't think of any reason why this wouldn't work. The last group of soldiers they encountered (and killed) came from Whitethrone so they would have been carrying any papers required to get back in.
I think it would work just fine, but remember, Ringeirr is the party's connection to the Heralds of Summer. Without their help, they'll be unlikely to enter the Market area where the hut is located. Not to mention, it's going to be harder to rest, heal, buy/sell equipment, etc without the help of the resistance group.
It's still doable, but it's going to take some adjustment if they cut Ringeirr out of the loop.
With regard to getting into Whitethrone.
My players want to walk in dressed as soldiers (which would essentially skip Fishguts and the Howlings).
I can't think of any reason why this wouldn't work. The last group of soldiers they encountered (and killed) came from Whitethrone so they would have been carrying any papers required to get back in.
Macona,
You're quite right, there is no reason why this wouldn't work. Their real problem is how they get to the Dancing Hut. There's an army sitting on top of it and should be (for the sake of verisimilitude) be an obstacle they cannot overcome with brute force. In fact, they should be utterly crushed if they even try.
While they contend with that problem, the entire city is more or less arrayed against them, with a combination of monsters and magic that is at least as powerful as they are, and in most cases much more so.
Really, getting into the city is the least of their problems. The chapter presents one possible path that navigates those problems that emphasizes the risk and danger... but should also in theory actually work.
Me, I'm evil. I'd have wanted posters warning that Enemies of the State may be trying to infiltrate the city disguised as Irrisen soldiers, and emphasize that all papers must be up to date or the soldiers WILL be detained and punished by their commanding officers afterward. ;)
Me, I'm evil. I'd have wanted posters warning that Enemies of the State may be trying to infiltrate the city disguised as Irrisen soldiers, and emphasize that all papers must be up to date or the soldiers WILL be detained and punished by their commanding officers afterward. ;)
That's a fun idea. :)
But.. One thing I did not want to say to Macona is that they should punish their players for being smart. Unfortunately, the problem is the price of their creativity is the GM having to do more work.
There's a fighter (archer) in my party that took out Logrivich with 3 arrows - even with him being upgraded to a Juvenile White Dragon.
Crit happens! Most anticlimactic dragon fight ever. . .
The fight with The Gobbler was good, though. My wife's witch character was swallowed whole, and she had already had her voice stolen by the attic whisperer. She had Radosek's wand of ice spears, and had to use UMD to activate it (since she couldn't speak), while the rest of the party flailed ineffectively at The Gobbler's hardness. She speared the stove a couple of times, and finally was able to crawl out of the ruined furnace. Good times!
There's a fighter (archer) in my party that took out Logrivich with 3 arrows - even with him being upgraded to a Juvenile White Dragon.
Crit happens! Most anticlimactic dragon fight ever. . .
Sorry to hear that. Yes, crit happens. It used to bother me when a big fight didn't pan out as planned, but then over the course of the whole AP these things fall to the wayside.
The fight with The Gobbler was good, though. My wife's witch character was swallowed whole, and she had already had her voice stolen by the attic whisperer. She had Radosek's wand of ice spears, and had to use UMD to activate it (since she couldn't speak), while the rest of the party flailed ineffectively at The Gobbler's hardness. She speared the stove a couple of times, and finally was able to crawl out of the ruined furnace. Good times!
Excellent!
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So I've got the Mindslaver Mold fight coming up and I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be a DC for its Avoidance ability. Is it the attack roll? 10+BAB?
Probably nevermind. James Jacobs wrote this a while back.
The DC of the Reflex save is equal to the attack roll of the attack that would have normally hit.
Basically, the mindslaver mold gets to sub the result of a Reflex save in as its AC for that one attack.
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For me, taking Jim's advice worked out great. Advancing the dragon one age category made for a much more exciting fight. That and some of the tactics proved to be a recipe for a perfect encounter. Lots of anxiety coupled with the excitement of the first dragon encounter of the campaign...
But, ironically (compared to Daneth's game) the Gobbler fight was very anticlimactic. It did manage to swallow one PC, but was then waylaid by a maxed out Crit and fell very quickly.
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For me, taking Jim's advice worked out great. Advancing the dragon one age category made for a much more exciting fight. That and some of the tactics proved to be a recipe for a perfect encounter. Lots of anxiety coupled with the excitement of the first dragon encounter of the campaign...
But, ironically (compared to Daneth's game) the Gobbler fight was very anticlimactic. It did manage to swallow one PC, but was then waylaid by a maxed out Crit and fell very quickly.
That was more along the lines of how I expected it to go.
I've been concerned with the survivability of the winter witches throughout this campaign. There are a couple of min/maxers in my group, one of them an archer specialist. It's not uncommon for him to do 20+ dmg an arrow, and currently he can get off four a round without haste.
Thinking about this made me remember a ranger archetype I had seen: the Witchguard, sworn defenders of the witches of the north.
Nazhena will have one with her for sure, maybe other witches as well. Aside from being a balancing factor, if ever there was an opportunity to use this archetype for npcs, THIS is the campaign.
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Thinking about this made me remember a ranger archetype I had seen: the Witchguard, sworn defenders of the witches of the north.
Nazhena will have one with her for sure, maybe other witches as well. Aside from being a balancing factor, if ever there was an opportunity to use this archetype for npcs, THIS is the campaign.
Hmmm... noted. Though my group is now in Iobaria, that could still prove useful.
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Hmmm... noted. Though my group is now in Iobaria, that could still prove useful.Thinking about this made me remember a ranger archetype I had seen: the Witchguard, sworn defenders of the witches of the north.
Nazhena will have one with her for sure, maybe other witches as well. Aside from being a balancing factor, if ever there was an opportunity to use this archetype for npcs, THIS is the campaign.
Speaking of Nazhena and Iobaria, I'm having her follow my players to Iobaria (though not to Triaxus or Earth, as that would be just silly ;) ) and letting her collect minions on the way. Marislova, embittered against Baba Yaga's servant as she is, could probably be convinced to join up with Nazhena and retrain her Ranger levels into Ranger (witchguard) levels.
Marislova, embittered against Baba Yaga's servant as she is, could probably be convinced to join up with Nazhena and retrain her Ranger levels into Ranger (witchguard) levels.
That's a cool idea - I like the idea of Nazhena as a recurring villain.
My wife is playing a winter witch, and Nazhena is going to try and recruit her to the dark side. She probably won't go for it (and the Black Rider mantle/geas could potentially prevent her even if she wanted to), but it should still make for some good RP.
I'm thinking of Winterguard Rangers to have the same kind of dynamic with their witches as Warders do with Aes Sedai from the Wheel of Time series.
Specifically, the Black Ajah members that still have warders.
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Jim sir; I hadn't fully read everything that was in the hut until my PC's started rummaging through it. Thank you soooo much for putting my favorite magic item in the game in the hut, the Migrus Locker. It triggered a 45 minute discussion if it should be opened or not. I laughed until I cried. Especially when the bard threatened to start making them en masse and becoming a crazy cat lady with a pack of 15 angry hairless, souless cat monsters.
I've a small question concerning the defenses of the Hut.
We're told of an initial ward which is negated by the Mantle at the end of Book 2. After that, we're not told of any defenses at all. The problem is, cohorts and new characters would not benefit from the Mantle (which I see as a PC-only effect). So the protections wouldn't apply to them.
Does the presence of someone with the Mantle negate the Wards, or would, say, a Paladin who refused the Mantle of the Black Rider end up triggering multiple interior traps? And what would those traps be? (Considering those WITH the Mantle end up facing some nasty situations in the Hut, I'd think someone without the Mantle would be in an even rougher situation.)
Tangent101,
I would disregard the wards and have the Mantle consist of the bonus and geas, and leave it at that. I'm also going to shoot you a PM.
I'm also going to shoot you a PM.How cruelly tantalizing for the rest of us :P
Yeah, I'd like to know too, since our last game ended with the party and the Hut staring at each other toward the end of book 2. . .
The information in the PM was not directly related to the Hut and the Mantle. So don't worry, you're not missing anything vital. And no, I'm not going to explain further.
Well,
They have a point. The idea that the Black Mantle allows you to bypass certain wards, that Baba Yaga left behind, was intended to be carried throughout the AP. You only saw it at the end of The Shackled Hut, because that is when the PC were in an area where Baba Yaga might have left such a ward. Bypassing a ward without a hassle was another benefit to having the Mantle. One more thing to make it more palatable besides the ability score boost.
The concept was never really utilized in the other chapters. I can't say for certain, but I suspect there was a communication issue. There is a brand new system in place (that was not present during RoW writing phase) to allow authors to communicate amongst each other now. So that might help going forward. There's not much more to it than that. :)
Yeah I agree with you!
But the object description says: [...] the wearer of a rimepelt in wolf form can take human form as winter wolves do, appearing as white-haired, blue-eyed human. [...] when the wearer returns to his normal form, or after 2 hours have elapsed the rimepelt becomes a mundane winter wolf pelt.
So I will change it to human-winterfolf: at will (only the pcs)/wolf-winterwolf: 2h.BTW: it's awesome to have you guys answering us on the forum! Thank you very much! This adventure was really fun to read and I am really looking forward to play it!
Yeah when I read that I was like... really 2 hours and the the pelt becomes just a worthless (well, not worthless but you know what I mean) white wolf's pelt? As you said, two hours a day wouldn't be too powerful IMO, so I wonder why they made it once ever then it loses ALL properties of magic? I noticed Jim Groves said he's the one that created it.
Hmm. A one-shot magic item that you get for free by skinning a Winter Wolf... that lasts long enough to get into the city. No, I don't see that as too unreasonable. It'd be nice to be able to be able to make it a charged item (works once a day for ten minutes or so) but really, all it exists for is as a plot coupon to get the players into the city.
Yeah when I read that I was like... really 2 hours and the the pelt becomes just a worthless (well, not worthless but you know what I mean) white wolf's pelt? As you said, two hours a day wouldn't be too powerful IMO, so I wonder why they made it once ever then it loses ALL properties of magic? I noticed Jim Groves said he's the one that created it.
Honestly, it was either too powerful or too expensive the way I devised it and I suspect this was a way to bring it into line. That being said, allowing it to be charged or used once per day doesn't seem too whacked out to me. So I agree with you!
When it comes to Greta and/or the Rimepelt, I do encourage the GM not to be afraid to assert their own judgment if it makes for a better game.
I am currently running a group through the first phase of this adventure and have some questions, primarily about the encounters en route
My group is now at the point where they are on what appears to be (per the map) the open snowy tundras. In that case how is it best to run encounters, both random (and scripted in the case of Norgrimm)
- Both myself and my players realised that out in the open unless the foe is white, both PCs and enemies will be able to spot each other from a very long way away (I'm not sure exactly how far but enough for lots of prep and several shots away). Is this really the best way to run the encounters? Because it seems quite boring and very much in favour of the PCs.
- Specifically for the Norgrimm encounter. The text says he tries to flank round and sneak up on the group. Now is Perception considered 360 degrees? Because if the Falconers distract the PCs and have them all looking forward I can't see how the PCs would see him. This would make the encounter very nasty
- Finally, what is seemingly an obvious question, but is snow considered difficult terrain? I know it restricts movement but is it ever stated that it is "difficult"?
And therefore does snow restrict 5 foot steps or charging? (Seems like a RAW vs RAI debate unless I have missed something written)
My group is now at the point where they are on what appears to be (per the map) the open snowy tundras. In that case how is it best to run encounters, both random (and scripted in the case of Norgrimm)
The map does show snowy tundras, but you should consider that the map is not a tactical battlemap. We have a limited number of maps we can use and admittedly there are a good handful of wilderness maps that have no maps specific to the encounter. That means you're not bound by the abstract overland map that depicts the landscape from a perspective higher than a jet.
For example, if you were to look at the Irrisen map in the Inner Sea World Guide you'd think all of Irrisen was covered by gentle rolling grasslands. We know better, don't we?
So, before we get into the specifics, I hereby authorize you, by the power invested in me by Paizo and other authorities, to adjust the map and the encounter to best serve the needs of your game and your gaming group! Good job GM! Go forth and entertain your players with fair but very challenging fights!
- Both myself and my players realised that out in the open unless the foe is white, both PCs and enemies will be able to spot each other from a very long way away (I'm not sure exactly how far but enough for lots of prep and several shots away). Is this really the best way to run the encounters? Because it seems quite boring and very much in favour of the PCs.
I agree, that would be terrible. So don't do it. Recognize that the overland map is not tactical but abstract. The terrain can have small slopes, hills, and in general be rolling and not be flat. There can also be trees. Not a whole forest, but you can certainly have small copses of trees. Once upon a time this terrain was not snow covered, so it doesn't have to be smooth and flat the way we see near the poles in the real world.
- Specifically for the Norgrimm encounter. The text says he tries to flank round and sneak up on the group. Now is Perception considered 360 degrees? Because if the Falconers distract the PCs and have them all looking forward I can't see how the PCs would see him. This would make the encounter very nasty.
It would be nasty, but would be closer to what I had in mind—to be honest. Perception is.. I suppose 360 degrees. Much of this is going to depend on how much cover you'll grant Norgrimm from terrain (see my remarks above) and whether the PCs are making active and/or passive Perception checks. Norgrimm has at least +10 Stealth in snowy terrain, and you can adjust the PCs Perception DCs (per the rules) up to a +5 for terrible conditions.
I realize you want to be fair to your players and that is a laudable goal. Also realize that Norgrimm and the Falconers know about the PCs before the PCs know about them, so they have the "home terrain advantage". In my opinion an opposed Stealth and Perception roll between Norgrimm and the PCs should be about whether they're surprised by him or not. I think should Norgrimm should get behind them in relative close proximity.
Yes, that is a rough encounter. It's also likely the only one they'll have that day, so the PCs will be at their best with all their resources. To an extent that works in their favor from the very start.
Is this fair? Well, if I had been able to provide you with a tactical map I would have set it up so that the PC were walking into an ambush and the Perception checks would very clearly be about determining a surprise round or not. And if I may be so bold, no one would have noticed or objected. Many encounters in many adventures are structured just that way. The only difference here is the lack of map, which raises these questions and concerns to the GM.
(Note, this is no way intended to be a passive aggressive complaint about our map allowances. Not at all. We're given our resources and we have to make them work. Rather when we can't give a map the GM should exercise their license and creativity to stage the best possible encounter they can.)
- Finally, what is seemingly an obvious question, but is snow considered difficult terrain? I know it restricts movement but is it ever stated that it is "difficult"?
And therefore does snow restrict 5 foot steps or charging? (Seems like a RAW vs RAI debate unless I have missed something written)
The rules specifically state "it costs 2 squares of movement to enter a snow-covered square". I wish it just said "difficult terrain" because that is a game term that interacts neatly and smoothly with other mechanics (like charging). I believe that is the definition of difficult terrain, but someone might argue it. I treat it (and ice) as difficult terrain in my games.
Alternately you might allow charging but treat the distance as longer. Not how I would do it.
Snowshoes permit you to move 1.5 squares (like going diagonally on a grid) per square travelled.
This notwithstanding, you still retain the authority to determine the terrain type that best suits the needs of your game and your group. For example, it's perfectly reasonable to say the ground where the attack takes place has a light dusting of snow but still acts as normal terrain.
Sorry if I was in lecture mode, and I hope this helps and you guys have a great game!
Sorry in advance for the probably grammar error I will make, sadly even if I do speak english often and I'm quite used to it it's not my mother language so i will probably make some mistakes as I write.
Hello!
You write english perfectly well and I am happy to help as best I can.
Honestly, you have a lot of players. APs are designed for four players, and a fifth player can tip the scales a little depending on their class.. and a sixth player will definitely make every single encounter easier.
You also have a ranger, and if they have an animal companion, that can start to shift the difficulty levels too, especially with a large party. Rangers and Druids are a little tricky like that. The reason is economy of action.
There are two primary causes for weak encounters:
A.) The creature CR is too low
B.) Economy of Action - which means the monster is just outnumbered by the all PCs and just making the creatures tougher doesn't always fix that.
You will face more problems due to economy of action than just the monsters being weak, though both play a factor—in the problem and how to fix it.
I think across the board you need to increase the CR of every single encounter by +1. Where possible, do that by adding an extra creature. That will be really hard in the clocktower because I built it so the ice trolls have room to move on the first floor only, but you don't have a lot of room for more Large sized creatures. You might consider giving them the advanced template.
I would definitely increase Logrivich to Juvenile and use the strategies I gave earlier (that is, don't fight "fair" at first). With the size of your group, I would think about giving him some help—like an ice troll who might be talking to him when the PC arrive.
If you increase Nahzena's levels, do it by 2—not by one. Two levels = CR+1. Alternately, add another ice golem, and keep her in the air (via flying hex) and out of melee, and use area of effect cold spells which will heal the golems. Consider giving her something to protect her from arrows.
Finally, try to increase the difficulty of all the encounters (by CR+1), not just the two boss fights.
To the overall community: A common complaint with The Shackled Hut was that it was too easy. In my adventures to follow, I made the encounters a little more difficult. Nevertheless, these chapters are designed for four players, so the the advice I'm giving here applies to all groups of six players and more. Raise the CR by +1 and do it with more creatures where possible-Bosses being the possible exception.
Thank you, Jim. While my players are still a while away from this (I'm lucky if the RoW group meets once a month and then we play for 3-4 hours) it's good to hear suggestions along this line. (Though to be honest I'll have to increase the CR by more than that seeing my group will likely go into it with two additional levels and one Mythic Tier.)
The Economy of Action was especially important to note. Up 'til now I've just been increasing the hit dice of encounters (levels, Advanced Templates, and the like) and maximizing hit points. But assuming that I still have the group of six going into this (I've one player who started a weekend job so she might have to drop, at which point I can eliminate an NPC she's got with her) then I see I'll need to increase the body count as well.
I'll likely do this for earlier encounters as well. Seeing I'm switching over to electronic maps (roll20 and its ilk), I'm better able to cope with extra people in an encounter now. Though I'll gladly spend the money for a Paizo version if your company creates one! ;)
You're welcome Tangent101!
Yes, definitely, economy of action is not always fixed by the same number of tougher monsters. An advanced template can increase hit points, attack and damage bonuses and saving throws.. but the creature is still only taking the same number of actions per turn. After a point that will not make up for all the extra actions and attacks that two or more players will take. If you were to keep increasing the levels and abilities of the same number of enemies, what happens is they eventually become too difficult to hit or too difficult to fight.
More players is best countered by more enemies, with increasing the power of single enemies when circumstances just don't permit that (and honestly, they won't always). Mix and matching solutions always works well, encounter tweaking is an art form. Glad it helped!
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This is all in theory for now since I don't have a game planned yet - but one of the things I was thinking about doing was using Rule Zero: Underlings to beef up some encounters. Seems like an easy way to add some action economy to the monsters without dialing up the difficulty too much.
Thanks for your help Jim
It is nice to get advice from the author!
I too have accumulated a group of 6 PCs (and an animal companion)
I have had to alter the encounters (and ignore Nadya) already as the point on action economy is very valid.
I am currently considering a tangent to explore the "pockets of summer" piece a little more. I have already played the one (PCs did not fight the Megalocerous as one is an Erastil worshiper). Doubled the Worgs and made them attack the camp
However I noticed the part about the White Witches quickly shutting down these pockets and was thinking of wheeling out a group of Cold Sisters (plus fey and monster allies) to have captured and tortured a druid. Would probably be a very tough sub section as Cold Sisters are theoretically minimum Level 5.
I might even combine with my partially formed idea of an Awakened Animal forest (got fascinated by the Awaken concept when reading about the Crows in the Dancing Hut. Really like the idea of a polar bear druid :-P )
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If you increase Nahzena's levels, do it by 2—not by one. Two levels = CR+1.
I might be confused here, but this is contrary to how I thought things work... I thought the calculation was CR = class level - 1, so that if you want to increase CR by 1 you add a single class level.
I mean, a level 20 fighter is CR 19, not 10...
If you increase Nahzena's levels, do it by 2—not by one. Two levels = CR+1.I might be confused here, but this is contrary to how I thought things work... I thought the calculation was CR = class level - 1, so that if you want to increase CR by 1 you add a single class level.
I mean, a level 20 fighter is CR 19, not 10...
You're right, I was thinking through it backwards in my haste. I was trying to get across that a zero level race with class levels needs to be one level higher than the intended CR.
That being said, Manuelexar's party will be between APL 7 & 8 by the time they reach Nazhena (and most of the party 6th level individually) provided they follow the guidelines on when to level the party. At bare minimum they will be APL 7, and arguably APL 8 in all practicality.
My preferred suggestion to Manuelexar was to add more enemies, but two levels to Nazhena may not be as overwhelming as you might think—if you want a decent challenge.
I have heard and read many Developers say a 5th party member does not increase the APL. Respectfully, I think that's usually wrong. In my experience it is rare when it does not.
Nevertheless my statement was incorrect.
I've seen several accounts claiming that it does, and I'm willing to agree with the sentiment. I know that two cohorts altered things a bit as well. Of course, another way to deal with it is to give Nahzena a half dozen "elite" guards of 3rd level who are scattered enough so that one AoE spell can't kill them all, and have them all armed with bows and precise and rapid shot. This increases the action economy and is also realistic as you'd expect her to have some guards.
I have some further questions regarding the greater action economy of larger parties
Shackled Hut seems to have several solo encounters, some of which I am struggling to think of sensible ways to make more challenging for larger groups. This is partly because the nature of the encounter suggests that adding more foes would not make sense:
Solo mirror man - I figured they were only in patrols of one?
Winter wolf with escaped slave - Perhaps it would not be too unusual to make this a mated pair of wolves
Wikkawak - Is mentioned in the text as a loner. The easy fix would be tp add one or more wikkawaks (Due to space requirements (trolls being very big) I may add more of these elsewhere including with Logrivich)
Troll leader - Has personal quarters. I figured perhaps add a trollhound or two...
Attic whisperer - perhaps she could join Granny since it is effectively a "second familiar"
Gobbler - I cannot think of how to toughen this up other than putting Granny (and potentially Whisperer) all in the same room.
Out of interest does Hardness in this instance mean the Gobbler effectively has DR 10?
Logrivich - considering adding Mierul from Snows (as she was released by PCs) and/or Wikkawaks / Ice trolls
Bragda (leader of patrol in forest area) - I can't think of why a patrol would be led by 2 wolves
If anyone has any thoughts or tips for me I would appreciate it.
Thanks