The problem is that Scatter weapons typically have terrrible range increments, usually 10 feet, making them impractical for combat for most characters. I know that certain archetypes and builds like the Sword and Pistol build, or the Gulch Gunner Archetype actually benefit from using guns at point blank ranges (and even they typically focus on pistols, not two-handed firearms), but generally it's a very poor idea to be that close to an enemy with a two-handed ranged weapon that takes so long to reload.I think I can see why people don't choose the blunderbuss out of the starting 3 more often-- you're taking a 1d8/x2 weapon over a 1d8/x4 or a 1d12/x4 weapon, both with longer range increments. It's good to hear the ability to scatter can make the choice worth it.
It also sounds like some people here are forgetting, you can use a dragon pistol or a blunderbuss to shoot an ordinary bullet as well. There's no need for a second gun, just keep a variety of cartridges on hand.
I was thinking of concocting a scatter archetype too, but I'll save it for another thread.
The gunslinger feat allows you to fire without provoking AaOs. Scatter shot is great for a bunch of mobs ganging up on you or your tank.
Design Manager
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The gunslinger feat allows you to fire without provoking AaOs. Scatter shot is great for a bunch of mobs ganging up on you or your tank.
Which feat is that? I wasn't aware of one prior to Sword and Pistol which you generally have to be at least 7th level to take. That's a long time to go if you're taking a blunderbuss as your starting weapon, and won't even work with a blunderbuss anyways.
**EDIT** Ah, never mind, I just found it. Deft Shootist, correct? That still takes 3 feats to get, requires you to have at least one grit point (not usually a problem) and delays your ranged feats like Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, etc.
I guess maybe those ranged combat feats are a little bit less important if you're starting out with a Scatter weapon?
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Design Manager
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Here is a link to a new thread I created in the rules forum to discuss this speed issue. I also quoted the FAQ post that john was referring to and SKR never said that the Speed property gives all natural attacks extra attacks although he did say that the main reason it was disallowed is that it would be too powerful.
Thank you Shinigaze!
No, pre req is proficiency and BaB 4.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/gunslinger
Enjoy.
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Design Manager
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No, pre req is proficiency and BaB 4.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/gunslingerEnjoy.
Ah, I see. It's a neat feat, but it is also fan created content and not actually an official feat, so no good in PFS or convention play. And maybe just a little too good, since it works way better than the official feats that provide the same benefit.
I see your point, there is always a catch isn't there.
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Here's my attempt at a scatter-based gunslinger archetype.
Comments much appreciated!
Honestly I'm surprised nobody in this thread had anything to say about the double hackbut...
I would make Gun Training work like Pistol Training but only on Firearms with the Scatter Quality. Don't most Gunslinger Archetypes only replace 2 Deeds?
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Design Manager
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I'm not sure, since entangle isa rare condition to find a cure for (seriously hardest condition to cure), it stays relevent.
It does seem like very few of the alchemical cartridges stay viable terribly long. It seems like the paper cartridges get used pretty consistently since they're (relatively) cheap, but you don't see the Dragon's Breath or Entangling Shot cartridges getting used at all after like 5th level or so. The odds of misfiring are drastically increased, and there's no way to make the save DC go up so it's all but worthless after a point.
The problem is that the DC for the ability never increases. It's always a DC 15 Reflex save. By level 5 most creatures have a better than 50% chance of making this save, and by level 10 they're unlikely to ever fail. There should really be a way to scale the DC's for alchemical cartridges to keep them useful throughout. Poisons at least have the benefit of raising the DC by 2 for each application, it would be nice if there were a Grit ability or something to raise the DC's of alchemical cartridges like entangling shot and Flare cartridges.
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It also sounds like some people here are forgetting, you can use a dragon pistol or a blunderbuss to shoot an ordinary bullet as well. There's no need for a second gun, just keep a variety of cartridges on hand.
I was thinking of concocting a scatter archetype too, but I'll save it for another thread.
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Except your gun:
- attacks several squares at once, plus additional squares if you wish so
- only misfires if every hit is a misfire
- lets you wield and fight with a heavy armor and a shield
- receives enough magical weapon properties at mid-to-high level (Lucky/Reliable) to offset or suppress a potential misfire.
Since your gun only misfires if you misfire on every attack of a scatter (which incidentally you receive potentially more attack rolls for), there are few risks for your weapon to break unless you voluntarily increase your scatter and misfire range and target few creatures - which is intended by design. High risk, high reward.
You can always wield several guns to switch between them if one is broken by a really bad streak of luck... and the buckler pistol is there just in case you really would need an instant replacement firearm.
So as you can see, there is no issue with losing Quick Clear.
Silent Saturn's Sweepshooter is great though, perfect for a Dex-based scatter gunslinger ! Just a little issue I see, but more about it on the archetype's thread.