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Ok, so the prevailing interpretation seems to be that Silence has no save if it's cast on a point in space. This seems strange, overpowered, and also not really supported by the rules:
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object); Spell Resistance: yes; see text or no (object)
Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature's possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. Creatures in an area of a silence spell are immune to sonic or language-based attacks, spells, and effects.
The "Saving Throw" line says "Will negates; see text or none", but the text seems to make it clear that unwilling creatures, magic items, and item's in a creature's possession all receive saves, and the only thing that DOESN'T receive a save is unattended objects.
Is there something that I'm missing that supports the interpretation that there's no save for characters within the silenced area when it's cast on a point in space?
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Throughout the text, the spell talks about being cast on a single thing. Other area effects (such as burning hands or fireball specifically make reference to creatures in the area. If everyone in the area is supposed to get a save, why does the spell text never - not even once - say *anything* connecting being in the area to getting a save? Why depart from such standard wording?
Additionally, if you got a save just for being in the area, what would happen if you succeeded? The text is pretty explicit that if the spell is centered on you and you save, the spell is negated. But if you're merely within the radius, what happens? The spell says it does X, Y and Z within the area, not that it has X, Y and Z effects on subjects who fail their saves.
Anecdotally, last year's Free RPG Day module includes...
This spell only grants a save to the target (and then only if it's a creature or magic item). Being in the area does not grant a save.
Throughout the text, the spell talks about being cast on a single thing. Other area effects (such as burning hands or fireball specifically make reference to creatures in the area. If everyone in the area is supposed to get a save, why does the spell text never - not even once - say *anything* connecting being in the area to getting a save? Why depart from such standard wording?
For one thing, the spells does say something about creatures in the area getting a save: "An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any."
Also, you give the example of Burning Hands and Fireball which don't mention that every creature in the area gets a save, even though that is clearly how the spells function. I could give these spells as an example to support my position.
Additionally, if you got a save just for being in the area, what would happen if you succeeded? The text is pretty explicit that if the spell is centered on you and you save, the spell is negated. But if you're merely within the radius, what happens? The spell says it does X, Y and Z within the area, not that it has X, Y and Z effects on subjects who fail their saves.
If you made your save, you would be able to speak normally and the spell would not affect you, it would only affect unattended objects.
Anecdotally, last year's Free RPG Day module includes...
** spoiler omitted **This spell only grants a save to the target (and then only if it's a creature or magic item). Being in the area does not grant a save.
Ok, this is interesting because it does give some precedent - but assumedly the module was not designed by the game developers, so I'd still be interested to hear their intention.
Oh, and don't worry about the power level. It's a second level spell that takes 1 round to cast. Plenty of time for the wizard to identify it and tell his buddies to disrupt it on their turns.
In the example you gave, though, you could just cast it on a pebble, then sneak up on a 20th-level caster and use Wall of Stone to prevent his escape. Unless he has Silent spells prepared, he is now screwed with no chance to defend himself.
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Throughout the text, the spell talks about being cast on a single thing. Other area effects (such as burning hands or fireball specifically make reference to creatures in the area. If everyone in the area is supposed to get a save, why does the spell text never - not even once - say *anything* connecting being in the area to getting a save? Why depart from such standard wording?For one thing, the spells does say something about creatures in the area getting a save: "An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any."
Are you sure that line is referring to any creature within the area? Consider the preceding sentence:
"The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any."To me, that suggests that the statement that "an unwilling creature can attempt a Will save" is in the context of the spell being centered on said creature, rather than any creature in the area.
If you made your save, you would be able to speak normally and the spell would not affect you, it would only affect unattended objects.
So could you hear yourself speaking? Could others hear you speaking? Are you still immune to sonic attacks? Are others who failed their save immune to your sonic attacks? Could someone outside the area hear someone inside speaking? What if the spell is cast between two creaures, neither of which are in the area or get a save?
Silence is different from fireball or burning has be cause it targets a point, object, or creature, not just a 20ft spread. There's also that "or none" clause in the save part of the spell. In the way you're talking everyone in the area get's the save, which means that clause doesn't mean anything. And silence stops sound whether or not you're in it, no sound exists with the area. If you were on the opposite side of a silence from another person you couldn't hear them talking, or at least it would be muffled because the sound would have to travel around the silence. Silence doesn't care about creatures and where they are, NO sound may exist within the area of the silence, made from within the area or without.
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For one thing, the spells does say something about creatures in the area getting a save: "An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any."
Note that it says "an unwilling creature", not "unwilling creatures within the area". "An unwilling creature" can mean "an unwilling creature upon whom you center this spell" just as easily as it could mean "an unwilling creature within the area". That's the distinction I was making with the following:
Also, you give the example of Burning Hands and Fireball which don't mention that every creature in the area gets a save, even though that is clearly how the spells function. I could give these spells as an example to support my position.
I mean they reference creatures within the area, rather than just saying "an unwilling creature".
Any creature in the area...
...to every creature within the area.
They both reference affecting each creature in the area in addition to describing how they physically affect the area (i.e., fill it with fire).
Silence, on the other hand, only describes how the area functions. It doesn't say anything about how it affects each creature in the area individually, like the spells I mentioned do.
Fireball and burning hands are spells which are cast against an area, while silence is cast against a single target and then (if successful) produces an effect which emanates out from where the spell is.
If you made your save, you would be able to speak normally and the spell would not affect you, it would only affect unattended objects.
If three people are in the area, and some of us make our saves, then what do you do with the first two sentences of the spell's description? It even blocks sound from starting outside the area, passing through, and being heard outside the area on the other side. So if I make my save against a silence effect in a hallway, the people 30ft on either side of me can't hear each other, but I can hear both of them?
Huh?
Sorry, but the spell just doesn't work if simply being in the area gives you a save.
There's also that "or none" clause in the save part of the spell. In the way you're talking everyone in the area get's the save, which means that clause doesn't mean anything.
Not true, the spell explicitly says what it means by "or none": "Items in a creature's possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not." Unattended objects get no save.
I'll respond inline to the next questions:
So could you hear yourself speaking? Yes. Could others hear you speaking? Yes. Are you still immune to sonic attacks? No. Are others who failed their save immune to your sonic attacks? Yes. Could someone outside the area hear someone inside speaking? Yes. What if the spell is cast between two creaures, neither of which are in the area or get a save? No save.
It says "Will negates", so any effects would be negated on the creatures that make their saves.
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Ok, so the prevailing interpretation seems to be that Silence has no save if it's cast on a point in space. This seems strange, overpowered, and also not really supported by the rules:
** spoiler omitted **
The "Saving Throw" line says "Will negates; see text or none", but the text seems to make it clear that unwilling creatures, magic items, and item's in a creature's possession all receive saves, and the only thing that DOESN'T receive a save is unattended objects.Is there something that I'm missing that supports the interpretation that there's no save for characters within the silenced area when it's cast on a point in space?
Keep in mind that if you cast silence on a person then they can't move out of the effect. They will be silenced for the entire duration of the spell (as well as silencing anyone who comes near them).
If you cast silence on a fixed point or inanimate object then a person will normally only be disrupted for a round until they can move out of the area.
One gets a saving throw (because if you fail you're done for the duration), the other doesn't.
Ok, so the prevailing interpretation seems to be that Silence has no save if it's cast on a point in space. This seems strange, overpowered, and also not really supported by the rules:
** spoiler omitted **
The "Saving Throw" line says "Will negates; see text or none", but the text seems to make it clear that unwilling creatures, magic items, and item's in a creature's possession all receive saves, and the only thing that DOESN'T receive a save is unattended objects.Is there something that I'm missing that supports the interpretation that there's no save for characters within the silenced area when it's cast on a point in space?
Keep in mind that if you cast silence on a person then they can't move out of the effect. They will be silenced for the entire duration of the spell (as well as silencing anyone who comes near them).
If you cast silence on a fixed point or inanimate object then a person will normally only be disrupted for a round until they can move out of the area.
One gets a saving throw (because if you fail you're done for the duration), the other doesn't.
There are dozens of ways to stop someone from leaving the area of effect, though (e.g, grapple, trip, put up a wall, use it in a small room, use a pit spell, readied-action use of Mage Hand so the silenced pebble follows them, have someone with the spell on them ready a move action to follow the caster, etc. etc. etc.) It's so easy to make it uncounterable you almost have to purposely give them an escape route for it not to work.
What if the spell is cast between two creaures, neither of which are in the area or get a save?No save.
I didn't ask if they get a save, I explicitly said they don't get a save. But what happens? Since they didn't get a save, are they effected by the spell which would prohibit sound from getting to each other? Or since they didn't fail a save, they can hear fine, despite the sound not traveling within the area of the spell?
As for unattended objects, that's still referring to the target of the spell. If I cast silence on Bard, he gets a save. If instead I cast it on his singing sword, the sword gets a save. But if I cast it on the unattended stone at his feet, the stone doesn't get a save.
I didn't ask if they get a save, I explicitly said they don't get a save. But what happens? Since they didn't get a save, are they effected by the spell which would prohibit sound from getting to each other? Or since they didn't fail a save, they can hear fine, despite the sound not traveling within the area of the spell?What if the spell is cast between two creaures, neither of which are in the area or get a save?No save.
At that point, the spell is not affecting them, it's affecting the space. If they were inside the silenced area, it would be affecting them (their speech and spellcasting,) so they would get a save to negate it.
As for unattended objects, that's still referring to the target of the spell. If I cast silence on Bard, he gets a save. If instead I cast it on his singing sword, the sword gets a save. But if I cast it on the unattended stone at his feet, the stone doesn't get a save.
It never says the save is only for the target of the spell. The unattended stone gets no save, but the bard still gets a save, because he is an unwilling creature. His sword also gets a save, because it is in his possession.
Ok, so the prevailing interpretation seems to be that Silence has no save if it's cast on a point in space. This seems strange, overpowered, and also not really supported by the rules:
** spoiler omitted **
The "Saving Throw" line says "Will negates; see text or none", but the text seems to make it clear that unwilling creatures, magic items, and item's in a creature's possession all receive saves, and the only thing that DOESN'T receive a save is unattended objects.Is there something that I'm missing that supports the interpretation that there's no save for characters within the silenced area when it's cast on a point in space?
Seriously? An effect you can simply walk away from in even a short persons movement without an impact? By that rational Obscuring mist = total invis haxor overpoweredness. To see how truly ridiculous your argument sounds lets compare it to stinking cloud, just one level above:
Same rounds/level, space, duration? Yup
Does it stop spells? Some but not all
Does it stop spell like effects, extraordinary powers, etc etc: Nope
Does it stop other actions too? Nope
Does it continue to suck when you leave the area? Nope
Does it end concentration and/or attention? Nope
Does it obscure vision? Nope
Does it give concealment? Nope
Does it trump darkvision? Nope
Does it bypass spell resistance? Nope
Is it on the Permanency approved spell list: Nope
Is this a spell in one of the popular specialization spells (vs conjuration)? NopeI'd say silence has been nerfed to the point of near uselessness at the level you get it when casters are sporting a +7 (3 base +4 ability) to will. This leaves you at a common DC of 16 on this meaning that they have a 55% chance of resisting it. With that said I think such a narrow AoE is fine. Besides there are times you need it for non-combat applications such as tearing doors down, sneaking past something, etc.
With that said put the nerfstamp back in your pocket and think about the spells before you...
Seriously? I'm complaining about the spell having no save, and your defense is that a higher level spell which has a save can be more powerful, in certain situations?
As I've listed, there are SO MANY ways to prevent someone from leaving the area that the claim you can "simply walk away from it" is silly. Saying that a second-level spell isn't broken because you need to use a cantrip for it to be able to basically insta-win against a 20th-level caster is kind of a crazy argument.
Jason answered a question about the area version of the silence spell about 6 years ago in the 3.5 days.
After checking the SRD against the PRD the only text that has changed in the spell since 3.5 is that
This spell provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks.
was changed to be
Creatures in an area of a silence spell are immune to sonic or language-based attacks, spells, and effects.
because the 3.5 version wasn't really clear.
At that point, the spell is not affecting them, it's affecting the space.
"no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area"
Elf and Dwarf are 50' apart in a 5' wide hallway made out of sound-absorbing materials. The only way for them to converse is for the sound of their speech to travel through the hallway.
Someone casts silence at the point in space between them. There is no living or attended object in the entire are of the spell, so no saves are attempted. The spell is successful and not negated.
You're saying that the Elf and Dwarf can still converse freely, because they are not within the area of the spell? Despite the spell prohibiting all sound from passing through that area?
It never says the save is only for the target of the spell.
ZZTRaider explained here, but I'll repeat.
"The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature's possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not."
Sentence 1 tells you that you can center the spell on a creature.
Sentence 2 is still talking about that when it tells you that, if the creature (which you're centering the spell on) is unwilling, it gets a Will save (and SR) to negate the spell. If this happens, the spell is negated. It has no effect. Nothing happens.
Sentence 3 is telling you that, should the target of the spell be an object, it only gets a save if it's attended or a magic item that emits sound.
Jason answered a question about the area version of the silence spell about 6 years ago in the 3.5 days.
After checking the SRD against the PRD the only text that has changed in the spell since 3.5 is that
This spell provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks.was changed to be
Creatures in an area of a silence spell are immune to sonic or language-based attacks, spells, and effects.because the 3.5 version wasn't really clear.
Thanks for the citation! I guess that really was how it was intended to play. I still think I'll be house-ruling this in my campaigns (and I still think the language of the spell is unclear,) but thanks for clarifying me on the RAW.
At that point, the spell is not affecting them, it's affecting the space."no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area"
Elf and Dwarf are 50' apart in a 5' wide hallway made out of sound-absorbing materials. The only way for them to converse is for the sound of their speech to travel through the hallway.
Someone casts silence at the point in space between them. There is no living or attended object in the entire are of the spell, so no saves are attempted. The spell is successful and not negated.
You're saying that the Elf and Dwarf can still converse freely, because they are not within the area of the spell? Despite the spell prohibiting all sound from passing through that area?
By "it's affecting the space and not them" I meant that they can't hear each other, because the space in between them is silenced (and the spell explicitly says points in space don't get saves.) If they entered the area, they would get a save to negate. (Cheapy clarified that this isn't how the spell works but the language of the spell isn't clear.)
It never says the save is only for the target of the spell.ZZTRaider explained here, but I'll repeat.
"The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature's possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not."
Sentence 1 tells you that you can center the spell on a creature.
Sentence 2 is still talking about that when it tells you that, if the creature (which you're centering the spell on) is unwilling, it gets a Will save (and SR) to negate the spell. If this happens, the spell is negated. It has no effect. Nothing happens.
Sentence 3 is telling you that, should the target of the spell be an object, it only gets a save if it's attended or a magic item that emits sound.
Sentence 2 makes NO mention of the creature being the target of the spell, it only says any unwilling creature can attempt a save. This could be interpreted as any creature in the spell area.
Anyway, I'm no longer arguing that this is the actual rule, only that the spell language supports this interpretation. But upon seeing the dev comment I now know what RAI was, so I'll give it up.
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There are dozens of ways to stop someone from leaving the area of effect, though (e.g, grapple, trip, put up a wall, use it in a small room, use a pit spell, readied-action use of Mage Hand so the silenced pebble follows them, have someone with the spell on them ready a move action to follow the caster, etc. etc. etc.) It's so easy to make it uncounterable you almost have to purposely give them an escape route for it not to work.
Grappling or tripping a person to keep them in the silenced area still require an opposed check. So you're trading a saving throw for a combat maneuver check. You also probably need multiple characters working together (one to silence, one to grapple, etc) or one character needs to take multiple actions. Either way, someone is going to be tying up their actions to keep the victim within the area of the silence. As opposed to just casting the silence on them directly, which then frees up your actions.
You can use a pit spell and then follow it with a silence, but then you're giving the target a reflex save instead of a will save. You're also expending multiple actions (one standard action to create a pit, another to cast silence).
Using a readied action to move the pebble with mage hand is going to require two standard actions (one to cast silence, one to ready) in order to move the pebble 15 feet. It's still possible for the victim to escape unless their movement is slowed, and you're exchanging your actions in the round to keep them within the area.
I'm not saying that silence is some easy to beat spell, but I am saying that if you chose not to go the "cast directly on person/allow will save" route then you're going to have to have someone expending their limited actions each round in order to keep your opponent locked down. If it always required a will save then you'd rarely (if ever) have a reason for casting it anywhere except directly on the intended victim.
I'll respond inline to the next questions:
So could you hear yourself speaking? Yes. Could others hear you speaking? Yes. Are you still immune to sonic attacks? No. Are others who failed their save immune to your sonic attacks? Yes. Could someone outside the area hear someone inside speaking? Yes. What if the spell is cast between two creaures, neither of which are in the area or get a save? No save.
It says "Will negates", so any effects would be negated on the creatures that make their saves.
If two people are in a hallway and are both in the area of effect and player A makes his save and player B doesn't. Then player moves out of the area traveling north, and player B move out of the area traveling south.
Now if player A speaks can player B hear him? Player A made his save after all the spell shouldn't effect his speaking? Or does player B's failed save override and so the sound can't travel through the area to reach his ears?
What if player B speaks, can player A hear him? Who's save/failed save takes precedence?
You could make arbitrary decisions for any scenario, but holy complicated batman.
If two people are in a hallway and are both in the area of effect and player A makes his save and player B doesn't. Then player moves out of the area traveling north, and player B move out of the area traveling south.
Now if player A speaks can player B hear him? Player A made his save after all the spell shouldn't effect his speaking? Or does player B's failed save override and so the sound can't travel through the area to reach his ears?
What if player B speaks, can player A hear him? Who's save/failed save takes precedence?
You could make arbitrary decisions for any scenario, but holy complicated batman.
It's a glamer spell, so it affects the subject's sensory qualities. If A made his save, his speech is unimpaired. If B failed his save, his speech is silenced while he's in the silenced area. Whether or not A makes his save, he can't hear B while B is in the silenced area because B is glamered.
Seriously? I'm complaining about the spell having no save, and your defense is that a higher level spell which has a save can be more powerful, in certain situations?Yes, as a matter of fact its very applicable. Its an area of effect in which you happen to be. No different than a rogue trying to sneak in an area suddenly hit with a daylight spell.
No save spells are a completely different ball game than spells that allow a save. If the entire point of this discussion is that the spell doesn't allow a save, comparing it to a spell that allows a save is meaningless. If Silence always allowed a save like Stinking Cloud does, I'd be totally fine with it.
Your rational is flawed that you feel everyone should be allowed a saving throw if that interact with a spell effect as though it were an illusion.
SILENCE: School illusion (glamer)
Do you need to get a save on a wall of force if it occupies an empty space you wish to move through? No, nor should you here. It is easy to move without an effect. The cloud on the other hand screws you up mightily even after leaving but you at least get a save.
Wall of Force is a 5th level spell that doesn't prevent you from teleporting away (among hundreds of other helpful actions.)
As far as autowin vs anyone let alone a lvl 20 wizard you are insane. Even a lessor silent MM rod instantly trumps this, several cheap magic items, literally dozens of spells (a few i've already mentioned), class abilities, spell that don't require somantics, etc etc etc. This is just combating the silence effect directly, let alone stopping glamor effects and stopping the pebble/magehand itself.
Which spells, exactly, have you mentioned which could stop this? A Silent metamagic rod could work, as could abilities like a Teleportation wizard's Shift, but it still seems silly that every caster ever has to spent 11,000 gp just to counter a 2nd-level spell.
This is literally the most absurd thing I've read on this forum. And houseruling it a watered down version is covering up your abilty to be creative back on this issue. Don't blame the system or your players for outsmarting you. Learn the system and challenge them.
I've never had this tactic used against me, I've always been on the same side as the people who have used it.
Using a readied action to move the pebble with mage hand is going to require two standard actions (one to cast silence, one to ready) in order to move the pebble 15 feet. It's still possible for the victim to escape unless their movement is slowed, and you're exchanging your actions in the round to keep them within the area.
Re-reading Mage Hand this trick won't actually work, but for a different reason - now I see it requires concentration so you can't use it as a readied action. If it didn't require concentration, A could chuck the pebble at the caster and B could ready to move it 15 feet to follow them. The caster moves 30 feet, the pebble moves 15, and the caster is still in the silent area. Then on B's turn, he uses a move action to move the pebble on top of the caster and readies to move it again.
HOWEVER, the similar tactic of just holding the pebble, standing next to the caster, and readying a move action still works perfectly.
Indeed, this can work but usually not against anyone over an intelligence of 3 which is kind of the group your targeting. "look that object came over here the same time I stopped being able to talk (free action) so I'm going to pick it up (move action) and throw it back over there (standard action)." Now your party the the one silenced and "looky my round I'm going to use black tentacles to keep you right on top of it. Thanks for playing". Time to roll new characters.
So the caster just took his entire turn doing nothing but throwing the pebble, and on your turn you'll just throw it right back at him while your party shreds him. I have difficulty seeing how he ever gets the Black Tentacles off...
Just a couple things.
If A made his save, his speech is unimpaired. If B failed his save, his speech is silenced while he's in the silenced area. Whether or not A makes his save, he can't hear B while B is in the silenced area because B is glamered.
A and B aren't ever going to both be saving on the spell from the same casting.
If it targets A, A receives a save to negate it. If so, it's done. There's no emanation of silence whatsoever, it just doesn't exist.
If B gets targeted and fails, B gets silenced, and everyone and everything within 20 feet of B is also silenced, while the spell also follows B.
If it's targeted on a space that has both A and B in its radius, then there is no save, and the whole area is silenced. But it won't move with them, so it they walk 20 feet, all's good.
SILENCE: School illusion (glamer)
This really doesn't mean anything. It's not a matter of 'I think I can't speak and I think I can't hear, so I can't,' it's a matter of 'there's no sound here whatsoever, whether you believe that or not.' The will save is to negate a spell effect being put directly on you, not to disbelieve it.
For comparison, Invisibility is a glamer too, but it's not affecting people's minds to make them think you are invisible. It is literally reworking light (kind of like this reworks sound) to make you actually invisible.
Edit: My thoughts, anyway.
Wall of Force is a 5th level spell that doesn't prevent you from teleporting away (among hundreds of other helpful actions.)Silence does not keep you from teleporting out (not that you would need to as you can simply put... one foot... in front... of another.. I'm puzzled why you're having trouble grasping that. You can simply walk away.. from a 2nd level spell. You can't from many others. I laid out many defenses for you, please go reread.
Speaking of re-reading, check out all the things I listed in this thread that lock down the wizard.
1) Wall of Stone (no save or SR)
2) cause difficult terrain (there are many no-save no-SR spells for this like Ash Storm (a level 3 spell))
3) grapple the wizard
4) trip the wizard
5) use it in a small room
6) use a pit spell
7) use multiple Silenced pebbles to cover the whole room
Which spells, exactly, have you mentioned which could stop this? A Silent metamagic rod could work, as could abilities like a Teleportation wizard's Shift, but it still seems silly that every caster ever has to spent 11,000 gp just to counter a 2nd-level spellAgain its area, you can just walk away. Theres soo many ways to stop this but that is by far the easiest. If you have a mage blindfolded, cuffed to the floor, etc etc then yes your at a disadvantage... that can still be overcame by Silent spell, a feat you can get at first.
Sure, if you want to memorize ALL of your spells at a higher level and burn a feat, you can prepare them that way every day, on the off chance that the person scry-and-dying you today is going to use this one tactic.
So the caster just took his entire turn doing nothing but throwing the pebble, and on your turn you'll just throw it right back at him while your party shreds him. I have difficulty seeing how he ever gets the Black Tentacles off...Lets re-read: Indeed, this can work but usually not against anyone over an intelligence of 3 which is kind of the group your targeting. "look that object came over here the same time I stopped being able to talk (free action) so I'm going to pick it up (move action) and throw it back over there (standard action)." Now your party the the one silenced and "looky my round I'm going to use black tentacles to keep you right on top of it. Thanks for playing". Time to roll new characters.
I'm going to take this slow so you can understand... ;)
We used a free action, a standard action, and a move action. That allows us the use of a swift action to, wait for it, cast a quicken spell. More details on lmgtfy.com.
Oh WONDERFUL, the caster gets to cast a spell 4 freaking levels down from his highest spell known, if he prepared it quickened that day! How excellent for him!
Anyway is silence in an area powerful? Meh, its like telling a BBEG "hey i just wasted a 2nd lvl spell and a standard action to make you consume a move action to counter". Unless hes trapped in a 10'x10' cell or grappled thats kind of useless. But even then I only play teleportation wizards sooo yeah awesomeness. If its a really big deal the BBEG can counterspell it, use numerous spells to be immune, etc.
Really its a silly spell unless you stick someone directly with it and THEN you're really going to have a bad day. But even as powerful as that is its no worse than charm person which is one level lower where you can simply say "Bud can you not cast spells on us, we just want to talk".
You just said it takes a move action and a standard action to counter. Obviously, the Silencers will be using one of the dozen different ways to automatically prevent the caster from moving freely. Even Freedom of Movement doesn't protect against Wall of Stone or having multiple Silenced pebbles.
Against Teleportation subschool wizards, it only costs them an entire round (and prevents immediate actions) instead of being insta-win. If they have the Counterspell subschool, they'll have a chance to counter it. A tactic that lets a low-level party dominate 9 out of 10 high-level casters is still broken.
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Just throwing my 2 cents here ... through many years of "official" 3.5 and now Pathfinder, I've never heard of silence having a save if you cast it on a point in space. I've cast it myself many times, more than a few times with Venture Captains present. One of the main reasons it was both 1) made a 1 round casting time and 2) reduced to rounds per level in Pathfinder is because that's indeed a very powerful, tactically useful thing.
Is it good? Yes.
Does it "completely shut down casters" No.
Most importantly, does it require a save if you cast it on something unable to save? No. The spell is cast on a point and that point is the centerpoint of the emanation.
Think of it this way ... when you cast silence on a point in space, that point in space is a vacuum that only vacuums sound, and it has infinite sound vacuuming power up to exactly 20 feet away. End of story. You don't get a save because you were not that point, but the point is still affecting you.
You could have a creature with infinite SR walk within 20 feet of a point in space that has silence cast on it, and they'd still be affected by the silence.
You just said it takes a move action and a standard action to counter. Obviously, the Silencers will be using one of the dozen different ways to automatically prevent the caster from moving freely. Even Freedom of Movement doesn't protect against Wall of Stone or having multiple Silenced pebbles.<sigh> Lets re-read that AGAIN. "hey i just wasted a 2nd lvl spell and a standard action to make you consume a move action to counter". You being the caster of the silence used a standard to cast it and a slot. The lvl 20 wizard whos amused you think you can kill him is in the AoE. Me walks 30' away from you out of the area. Still with me? Ok good.
Are you REALLY still not getting this? THE WIZARD CANNOT WALK 30 FEET AWAY IF HE IS SURROUNDED BY A WALL OF STONE.
Now multiple pebbles. You're going to burn a 1 round/level on multiple pebbles setting this up, meaning youre burn rounds after the first. Oohh kay. Alright so lets say the wizard doesnt have minions, traps, locked doors, etc and lets you wait just outside in classical video gamer stupidity outside his chamber-o-battle. Oooh kay. So you're going to burst through the door and all throw them at once! Ready... Go!
Opps immediate action Emergency Force Sphere. Extend MM rod Time stop. Buff with all sorts of goodies. Create pit under this guy, resilient sphere around that guy with maximized Caustic Cloud inside. Summon demons on you. Widened Black tentacles on everyone. Lets put some delayed blast fireballs out there. Throw up Prismatic sphere. Just for irony widened silence on all of you. Time stop ends. Maze Maze Mazes for everyone, plenty to go around! While the friends that arent dead are mazed (or as i like to call it the waiting room for death) each round maybe a Quicken Prismatic spray plus a Horrid Wilting (no resistance FTW!) for those that are on deck for the fun.
See Rufus i know its hard to believe but 20th lvl wizards are kinda ridiculously powerful unlike 2nd level spells. Trying to make a point that it is just shows you need to put think before typing a post. Thanks for playing la~
Emergency Force Sphere is countered by Silenced Dim Door while holding a pebble. Now your wizard has trapped himself in the silenced area, and can't get his Time Stop off because it has verbal components.
The fact that you can envision a scenario in which this wouldn't work, and that scenario requires lots of advance preparation to counter this tactic, and you STILL can't come up with a way to stop it, is doing a great job of demonstrating how weak your case is.