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I'd rather make a vain attempt to Improve Ohio.I'll put in a plug for Colorado. Best place in country to live. (Or has been, but the California influx is changing the state.)I loved what I saw when we visited family for Christmas there. I'm looking at U of C Denver right now, but any other suggestions or experience would be appreciated.
I miss home, but I don't know that there is anything there for us. :(
It is not about "what i want" it is about being a responsible adult. You want to spend 12 years to get a bachelors in philosophy have fun, but pay your bills and don't gripe when jobs don't come rolling in.Citizen R., I don't know if you're just talking out of your ass, but it shouldn't take 12 years to get a bachelor's degree in anything.
That's roughly how long it took my wife. She nowhhas her Bachelors in economics and it was not a straight line to that degree. When we first met all those years ago she was pre med. She then went into art/fashion and wanted to design her own clothing line for plus size and busty women (I cannot put in to words how enthusiastic I was about this). Then her mom got cancer and she took care of her until the day she died, dropping out of school to get a job that was related to fashion (buyer clerical). When her mom was in her last days unfortunately, she went back to school and eventually got her associates in business administration, and even THAT wasn't a straight line, as she was interested in finance.. She then went back and forth on that angle until finally getting her bachelor's in economics, and now she wants to become some sort of g-woman, policing businesses that stray from fair policies.
She is a strange woman, and our road hasn't been completely smooth, but I love her. She keeps saying that I am her hero because she has no idea how I did college straight through with an extra year when we first met, but her story inspires me too - i know I couldn't have done what she did and is doing now. Don't tell her this though. She'll get a big head.
Good questions Drejk. Believe me my wife and I are at a complete loss to explain why our kids have a completely different approach to dealing with life than we do. We believe that we did all we could to teach them the same life lessons we learned as kids, but based on the evidence in front of us, we clearly didn't do enough. Not sure what else we could have done, but can't deny reality.
I have very similar concerns, though my oldest is only 14. He has a pretty severe sense of entitlement, and resents being made to help out around the house. I fear my desire to shelter him to some of the unpleasantness of my own childhood has led me to spoil him. On the other hand, I was pretty useless at 14 too. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...
--After FHDM's post:
Fair enough.
I apologize for suggesting you were talking out of your ass, Citizen R.
Again, dragon, I have to ask if you really think that they would have graduated if they did both school and work. It's incredibly difficult to do both, and to lose a job while in college does as much damage professionally as dropping out. Or it can, anyway.
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Good questions Drejk. Believe me my wife and I are at a complete loss to explain why our kids have a completely different approach to dealing with life than we do. We believe that we did all we could to teach them the same life lessons we learned as kids, but based on the evidence in front of us, we clearly didn't do enough. Not sure what else we could have done, but can't deny reality.I have very similar concerns, though my oldest is only 14. He has a pretty severe sense of entitlement, and resents being made to out around the house. I fear my desire to shelter him to some of the unpleasantness of my own childhood has led me to spoil him. On the other hand, I was pretty useless at 14 too. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...
Isn't everyone pretty useless at 14? Plus "kids today" has been a meme since Socrates so it may be they're no worse than we were at their age and we've become our parents.
I just find these conversational tactics despicable. It reminds me of a conversation I had at a dinner table with friends from varied backgrounds lately.
One individual was bemoaning the rotten economy and how he had been laid off and could not find a job. At the end of his personal history he laid the blame at the feet of George W. Bush.
Another friend at the table said "Wait, Bush hasn't been President for over four years now. In that time the national debt has increased by almost 50% and the deficit has doubled. We've added huge new social programs that are driving costs up across the entire economy and fuel costs, which are a core economic driver, have doubled. How is that George W. Bush's fault?"
To which the first guy said, and I quote: "What are you, some sort of pre-programmed Rush Limbaugh wannabe?"
This caused a bit of a conversational tussle with the first guy accusing the second guy of being a Rush clone and the second guy accusing the first guy of ignoring actual facts.
Eventually I got sick of it and it went like this:
Me: "Hey dude1, how long have you been listening to Rush Limbaugh?"
Dude1: "What! I would never listen to that racist homophobic right-wing liar."
Me: "Oh, then you don't actually know what he says then."
Dude1: "Of course I do!"
Me: "How?"
Dude1: "Well, he gets quoted all the time."
Me: "OK, so what, exactly, has he said about the economy?"
Dude1: "What Dude2 said!"
Me: "Hmmm. well, what Dude2 said are actual documentable, provable facts. So why is it a problem if Rush says them?"
Dude1: "They aren't true!"
Me: "Unfortunately, they actually are true. So your problem isn't that Dude2 made an inaccurate comment, your problem is that you believe he quoted someone you personally despise, when you actually have no idea at all what he said, and the things Dude2 said are actually 100% true."
Dude1: "I know a Rush clone when I hear one."
Me: "What you are doing is called 'guilt by association'. It's a tactic intended to discredit the PERSON you are debating...
Is that what I'm doing?
Isn't everyone pretty useless at 14? Plus "kids today" has been a meme since Socrates so it may be they're no worse than we were at their age and we've become our parents.
Oh, no doubt. However, in many ways I was much more independent at my son's age, though only by (unfortunate) necessity. I hope and believe that I've been able to strike a good balance for him, but time will tell.
On a related note: Anyone want to buy a 14 year-old? ;-)
Isn't everyone pretty useless at 14? Plus "kids today" has been a meme since Socrates so it may be they're no worse than we were at their age and we've become our parents.Good questions Drejk. Believe me my wife and I are at a complete loss to explain why our kids have a completely different approach to dealing with life than we do. We believe that we did all we could to teach them the same life lessons we learned as kids, but based on the evidence in front of us, we clearly didn't do enough. Not sure what else we could have done, but can't deny reality.I have very similar concerns, though my oldest is only 14. He has a pretty severe sense of entitlement, and resents being made to out around the house. I fear my desire to shelter him to some of the unpleasantness of my own childhood has led me to spoil him. On the other hand, I was pretty useless at 14 too. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...
I have to agree. It is often said that hindsight is 20/20, but we often ignore our flaws when looking back. I was a pretty good kid, but far from perfect as I was rather indolent and wiillful.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Isn't everyone pretty useless at 14? Plus "kids today" has been a meme since Socrates so it may be they're no worse than we were at their age and we've become our parents.Oh, no doubt. However, in many ways I was much more independent at my son's age, though only by (unfortunate) necessity. I hope and believe that I've been able to strike a good balance for him, but time will tell.
On a related note: Anyone want to buy a 14 year-old? ;-)
Isn't that another thread or three?
I've told my godkids, "Thank G_d I'm not your father. The way you'd be dressed? You'd make the Amish look hip and trendy."
Again, dragon, I have to ask if you really think that they would have graduated if they did both school and work. It's incredibly difficult to do both, and to lose a job while in college does as much damage professionally as dropping out. Or it can, anyway.
So this is pretty much a trap question in my opinion.
If I say "yes" then you've already set me up for having too high expectations since you've already said it's "incredibly difficult to do both". If I say "no" then I'm spoiling my kids.
All I can say is that my wife and I both worked our way through college. I lived in a crappy one bedroom apartment and had nothing but a bicycle for transportation for most of that period. I worked as a grocery store night stocker, working 40 hours a week at least, my normal shift was 11:00pm - 7:30 am. After getting off work I would load up my backpack with what groceries I needed and ride my bike back home to get ready for school. My classes were typically morning and early afternoon classes, so I would shower, get dressed and go to school, usually getting there by 8:30 or so and spending most of my time in the library doing my physics and other homework. By 3:00 I was usually through with all my classes and would go home. If I had more homework I'd do it then. Sometimes I had to stay late to use the computer since you had to schedule time on the punchcard machines. But usually I was home by 5:00. I'd sleep until 10:30 and head to work. I would catch up my sleep on weekends.
My wife worked at a different grocery store. She worked evenings. Both of us took more than four years to complete our degrees because we were working. But for me that was in part because I shifted majors from biomedical engineering to physics and physics had a very rigorous curriculum meaning I wasn't able to carry many credits over.
Anyway, for me to say "that was easy" is silly. It was hard. It was damn hard. And physics isn't anyone's idea of an easy course load I don't think. But I did it. And the thing is, I loved it. I had a blast.
I've told my godkids, "Thank G_d I'm not your father.
I'm far more amused than I probably should be that "god" in "godkids" is not censored while "God" in the quote is >_> Just a quirk.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I've told my godkids, "Thank G_d I'm not your father.I'm far more amused than I probably should be that "god" in "godkids" is not censored while "God" in the quote is >_> Just a quirk.
I don't consider 'godkids' being the same. just like I swear "gods damn it." My way of not taking His name in vain. I'm an odd duck.
Also bear in mind that work, especially low end work has changed. You'll probably be making minimum wage and minimum wage is lower in real dollars than it was when I assume you did it. School costs are much higher too, so working doesn't help as much.
Schedules are less likely to be consistent at a lot of low end jobs. A girlfriend of mine some years back was trying to go to school part time and her, pretty decent, job changed her schedule several times forcing her to drop classes and waste the semester - with no refund.
No sure if you are referring to my post, but if you are...
My job as a grocery stocker was skilled labor. I made good money, at least three times the minimum wage at the time. In fact it was too good money and I had to fight the temptation to drop out of school since the bulk of my income was going to paying for school and I could have spent that money on cars and chicks like all my working buddies did.
My wife was a union member and made even more per hour than I did.
I was working full time my junior and senior year in high school. By the time I graduated college I had been working full time for almost a decade.
Oh, lest I forget, I also had a campus job, two of them actually. I ran the "electronic programmable learning center" (essentially an automated audio and video tape system linked to the mainframe computer) and I was the main physics lab instructor, which is actually where I met my wife, who was a student.
I wouldn't say it was a trap, bit thanks for the insight. I didn't mean anything other than what I asked, but I guess it could be seen as a trick question . I was damn lucky a few years in college to work at the school paper, but due to.... Issues.. With my mother, whom I was living with, I really couldn't work at jobs other than the ones she vetted for me. I wanted to workat mMcDonald's or really anywhere that paid an okay wage, but she was so sure that I would dropoout if I got a job elsewhere that she forbade me on pain of being homeless. Even thoughI had financial aid books weren't free, and I still had to pay for things like transportation and food. It ended up ruining my credit score.
Also bear in mind that work, especially low end work has changed. You'll probably be making minimum wage and minimum wage is lower in real dollars than it was when I assume you did it. School costs are much higher too, so working doesn't help as much.
Schedules are less likely to be consistent at a lot of low end jobs. A girlfriend of mine some years back was trying to go to school part time and her, pretty decent, job changed her schedule several times forcing her to drop classes and waste the semester - with no refund.
This I also more what I was referring to with respect to your kids, dragon.
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No sure if you are referring to my post, but if you are...
My job as a grocery stocker was skilled labor. I made good money, at least three times the minimum wage at the time. In fact it was too good money and I had to fight the temptation to drop out of school since the bulk of my income was going to paying for school and I could have spent that money on cars and chicks like all my working buddies did.
My wife was a union member and made even more per hour than I did.
I just found this website at random, but even taking the high end $14 wage, nowhere near 3x the minimum wage.
Comrade Jeff is correct, times have changed.
I don't consider 'godkids' being the same. just like I swear "gods damn it." My way of not taking His name in vain. I'm an odd duck.I've told my godkids, "Thank G_d I'm not your father.I'm far more amused than I probably should be that "god" in "godkids" is not censored while "God" in the quote is >_> Just a quirk.
Aaah gotcha, didn't know that was the purpose. That explains it then =) Thanks
My job as a grocery stocker was skilled labor. I made good money, at least three times the minimum wage at the time. In fact it was too good money and I had to fight the temptation to drop out of school since the bulk of my income was going to paying for school and I could have spent that money on cars and chicks like all my working buddies did.
Minus the cars and chicks part, this is what I ended up doing - losing interest in school + exhaustion with doing the dual work/school thing, dropping out, and moving on to work full time. After a few months of flailing around at various service jobs, I ended up landing with a temp agency that pointed me at various data entry jobs. When one folded, I got pointed to another. When the agency stopped sending me to jobs, I jumped on with another. (Started with Spherion, then went to Aerotek, then most recently joined AccountTemps when I moved out here to TN, which is where I got my current job.)
I have the fortune of being generally okay with doing menial data entry, having generally okay bosses who don't mind my eccentricities, and, as stated before, having a low enough standard of living and no spouse/children relying on me that I can get by with a low-end job. The benefits I get out of my current position are mostly gravy at this point.
A quick google suggests that grocery night stockers these days make somewhere around $10/hr. Well under 3x minimum wage, which as I said is worth less than it used to be.
That's part of the point.
So, to continue this line of thought then, I probably wouln't be a night stocker today and would have a different job that paid more. In fact to become a night stocker I quit a union apprentice glazer job so I could have my days free. I could have kept that job (which paid more) and moved up to journeyman glazer and taken night classes. But that would have taken a lot longer to graduate since there weren't as many physics classes offered at night.
So, how much does a journeyman union glazer with four years experience make today?
@Jessica Price- Perhaps it's different where you are, but I have the fortune to live near in an area with a terrific community college system. I've been going there for two years and they have a pretty astonishing variety of courses, including many that the local university send students here to take! Basically, I think you're selling the CC option short.
I think what MK was talking about is precisely what I've done: go to community college on the cheap, take a bunch of boring gen eds, and transfer to a proper university. Take upper levels there once your 101s are out of the way. I just started at University of Wisconsin this month. I get looked down on because I'm a transfer student but honestly? It's pure arrogance; I'm extremely happy with the quality of education at MATC.
It's sort of a function of economics. University tuition costs are skyrocketing--UW's price has gone up like 9% a year! So CCs have stepped in to provide general education and as such have moved to attain course equivalency with universities for transfer opportunities.
Hail, fellow Badger. :-)
My job as a grocery stocker was skilled labor. I made good money, at least three times the minimum wage at the time. In fact it was too good money and I had to fight the temptation to drop out of school since the bulk of my income was going to paying for school and I could have spent that money on cars and chicks like all my working buddies did.Minus the cars and chicks part, this is what I ended up doing - losing interest in school + exhaustion with doing the dual work/school thing, dropping out, and moving on to work full time. After a few months of flailing around at various service jobs, I ended up landing with a temp agency that pointed me at various data entry jobs. When one folded, I got pointed to another. When the agency stopped sending me to jobs, I jumped on with another. (Started with Spherion, then went to Aerotek, then most recently joined AccountTemps when I moved out here to TN, which is where I got my current job.)
I have the fortune of being generally okay with doing menial data entry, having generally okay bosses who don't mind my eccentricities, and, as stated before, having a low enough standard of living and no spouse/children relying on me that I can get by with a low-end job. The benefits I get out of my current position are mostly gravy at this point.
inspiring, Orthos. Thanks for sharing. You are a living example of the Johnny walker "keep walking" ad.
A quick google suggests that grocery night stockers these days make somewhere around $10/hr. Well under 3x minimum wage, which as I said is worth less than it used to be.
That's part of the point.
So, to continue this line of thought then, I probably wouln't be a night stocker today and would have a different job that paid more. In fact to become a night stocker I quit a union apprentice glazer job so I could have my days free. I could have kept that job (which paid more) and moved up to journeyman glazer and taken night classes. But that would have taken a lot longer to graduate since there weren't as many physics classes offered at night.
So, how much does a journeyman union glazer with four years experience make today?
My brother-in-law delivers packages and is part of a union. He makes a decent amount of money.
inspiring, Orthos. Thanks for sharing. You are a living example of the Johnny walker "keep walking" ad.My job as a grocery stocker was skilled labor. I made good money, at least three times the minimum wage at the time. In fact it was too good money and I had to fight the temptation to drop out of school since the bulk of my income was going to paying for school and I could have spent that money on cars and chicks like all my working buddies did.Minus the cars and chicks part, this is what I ended up doing - losing interest in school + exhaustion with doing the dual work/school thing, dropping out, and moving on to work full time. After a few months of flailing around at various service jobs, I ended up landing with a temp agency that pointed me at various data entry jobs. When one folded, I got pointed to another. When the agency stopped sending me to jobs, I jumped on with another. (Started with Spherion, then went to Aerotek, then most recently joined AccountTemps when I moved out here to TN, which is where I got my current job.)
I have the fortune of being generally okay with doing menial data entry, having generally okay bosses who don't mind my eccentricities, and, as stated before, having a low enough standard of living and no spouse/children relying on me that I can get by with a low-end job. The benefits I get out of my current position are mostly gravy at this point.
Thanks =) I can hardly take all the credit though, I owe a lot of people for helping me along, pitching in with bills when times were tight, giving me a place to stay when the job market got bad, and such like. I have no illusions that I could have done this on my own.
It is not about "what i want" it is about being a responsible adult. You want to spend 12 years to get a bachelors in philosophy have fun, but pay your bills and don't gripe when jobs don't come rolling in.Citizen R., I don't know if you're just talking out of your ass, but it shouldn't take 12 years to get a bachelor's degree in anything.A bit of an exaggeration (assuming he's not talking corner cases of course) but it *does* take longer to get a degree on average. I think it's up to 6 years now? Was 5 in the 90's on average.
That's not counting the people who don't get the k-12 education to actually *enter* college. (Those 050 classes you have to take to get up to speed aren't free.)
I've also heard that it's taking on average 5 years to finish your bachelor's. That was starting to be true when I was in college (2000s).
But you know, there's more than one way to "earn" it. I worked hard and got good grades in high school, and took all the AP courses I could, and had enough credits when I started college that I essentially started as a sophomore, and earned some academic and musical scholarships. I also took the maximum number of credits my first two years. So I finished in four. It was a lot of work, but I probably saved a year of tuition and housing costs by doing it. You can work off some of the costs academically as well as by getting a job, if you're willing to put in the effort. (Navigating the scholarship application maze is pretty much a part-time job, as I learned when I did it for my sister, and realized I was spending 4 hours a day on it.)
There are a lot of different ways to reduce the costs. A lot of academic scholarships are less about inherent intelligence and more about hard work.
My brother-in-law delivers packages and is part of a union. He makes a decent amount of money.
So, to continue this line of thought then, I probably wouln't be a night stocker today and would have a different job that paid more. In fact to become a night stocker I quit a union apprentice glazer job so I could have my days free. I could have kept that job (which paid more) and moved up to journeyman glazer and taken night classes. But that would have taken a lot longer to graduate since there weren't as many physics classes offered at night.
So, how much does a journeyman union glazer with four years experience make today?
I work where TCG's brother-in-law works and there are, generally speaking, two types of employees there:
--Problem kids with no prospects who started when they were 18 and now make $1,000/week
--Guys who were working their way through school, got offered a full-time job, quit school and paid their student loans off before they hit top-rate.
As far as journeymen glazers, Citizen Dragon, Jesus, I don't even know what union that would be. Do you remember?
EDIT: As of 2007
Hail, fellow Badger. :-)@Jessica Price- Perhaps it's different where you are, but I have the fortune to live near in an area with a terrific community college system. I've been going there for two years and they have a pretty astonishing variety of courses, including many that the local university send students here to take! Basically, I think you're selling the CC option short.
I think what MK was talking about is precisely what I've done: go to community college on the cheap, take a bunch of boring gen eds, and transfer to a proper university. Take upper levels there once your 101s are out of the way. I just started at University of Wisconsin this month. I get looked down on because I'm a transfer student but honestly? It's pure arrogance; I'm extremely happy with the quality of education at MATC.
It's sort of a function of economics. University tuition costs are skyrocketing--UW's price has gone up like 9% a year! So CCs have stepped in to provide general education and as such have moved to attain course equivalency with universities for transfer opportunities.
:-O
From where do you hail? Being the birthplace of D&D I can't be too shocked that there's a lot of Paizonians that are from here, or at least lived here at some point.
Born and raised in the Milwaukee area, went to college in Madison, hung around in Chicago a lot during college (roommate & best friend had a boyfriend there, so we went there on weekends quite a bit).
And then I fled out here to get away from the snow. ;-)
As far as journeymen glazers, Citizen Dragon, Jesus, I don't even know what union that would be. Do you remember?EDIT: As of 2007
Yeah, back in 1978 or so I was making pretty good money as an apprentice glazer. They offered me a journeyman glazer's position but I would have had to work on construction jobs that could have been within about a 200 mile radius of our office, and that would have made it impossible to stay in school, so I didn't take the promotion. That actually got me some "college kid" jokes from the full time folks. I did work on high rise construction a couple of summers, and that gained a "hazard" bonus on my paycheck so it was really, really good money for the time. I ended up working with glass for three years, during which time I never once cut myself on glass. I did however slice the holy heck out of my thumb on a piece of aluminum tape. I still have the scar. I think it may have been the day that one of my coworkers had his arm almost severed when a nine-foot double-pane glass panel broke as they were installing it in the top floor of a skyscraper that I decided college was looking like a good career choice for me...
Well, I thought harder on it and I did know one union glazier. He was from Kentucky or somewhere and had come up to Boston to work on some project connected to the Big Dig (I think; in retrospect there's not much glass there). He was a buddy of my then roommate who had just embarked on an exciting career as a junkie. IIRC, the glazier, who was an alcoholic and had a host of substance abuse problems, later froze to death while sleeping in a U-Haul parking lot.
You probably made the right choice.
If you're talking about someone already established in a career going back to school that's a different story than someone just starting out. If you've got 4 years in a skilled unionized trade, ditching that to go to school full time might not be a good plan. If you're fresh out of high school without an in to a career like that, then your choice is likely between dead end retail and full time school if you can swing it. That's an entirely different story.
By the time I was 20 years old and in my fourth year of college, I had been working in various construction jobs for four years. I had early on decided that retail wasn't a great option for making money and had instead applied for hard physical labor jobs that required an actual skill. Glazing is where I happened to end up, but it could well have been ironworking, sheetrocking (which is what my brother did), bricklaying or any of a dozen other construction careers that then, as now, had trouble finding people willing to take the jobs because you get dirty, sweaty and might lose a finger or two (my boss literally had only five fingers, distributed across two hands).
As my son is finding, that is true today. While my daughter continues to struggle in a series of retail jobs, my son is pursuing plumbing and is finding that there are companies searching for qualified plumber apprentices. That's what he is currently studying in a local junior college.
I will grant you that it is harder to find retail jobs today, and that in general wages have not scaled with inflation, while school costs have grown several times the rate of inflation, which squeezes college students at both ends. And to make matters even worse, getting a college degree is no longer any sort of guarantee that you can find a job. My daughter graduated over a year ago and still hasn't found a job in her chosen career so she works as an unpaid intern to get experience.
It is definitely harder today to do what I did in the late 70s. No doubt about it. But doing what I did then would cut your student debt by probably 2/3 or more if you did it. Which might make it manageable.
By the time I was 20 years old and in my fourth year of college, I had been working in various construction jobs for four years. I had early on decided that retail wasn't a great option for making money and had instead applied for hard physical labor jobs that required an actual skill. Glazing is where I happened to end up, but it could well have been ironworking, sheetrocking (which is what my brother did), bricklaying or any of a dozen other construction careers that then, as now, had trouble finding people willing to take the jobs because you get dirty, sweaty and might lose a finger or two (my boss literally had only five fingers, distributed across two hands).
Maybe construction firms are having a hard time finding applicants, but I thought that these days they were having a harder time finding work.
Also, as far as union construction jobs go--those are notorious for being the kind of corrupt job trusts that anti-union people love to talk about. Did you just get the gig or did you know somebody? I remember taking the test to become an apprentice in the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers and it was a joke--after studying a huge book on the subject, I went there and it was just basic math so that even someone's dumbest nephew could get in. I knew nobody and, despite scoring a 97% or something, never got called back. :(
Maybe construction firms are having a hard time finding applicants, but I thought that these days they were having a harder time finding work.
Also, as far as union construction jobs go--those are notorious for being the kind of corrupt job trusts that anti-union people love to talk about. Did you just get the gig or did you know somebody? I remember taking the test to become an apprentice in the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers and it was a joke--after studying a huge book on the subject, I went there and it was just basic math so that even someone's dumbest nephew could get in. I knew nobody and, despite scoring a 97% or something, never got called back. :(
Well, I'm probably boring the heck out of everyone, but since you asked...
Construction is down now but residential plumbing, electrical, home repair and many, many other trade jobs are currently looking for people to hire. I had to hire an electrician lately and the guy I hired was well past retirement age and was still working because there just weren't enough young people in the field, otherwise he would happily have been playing golf. Or that's what he told me. I'm sure he was glad to get the money.
How did I get a job as an apprentice glazer? Well, that's a tale in itself. And it is pretty much similar to how I got every job I've ever had. Basically I made the boss decide it was easier to hire me than not to hire me.
To illustrate: Back in 1977 or so I was actually working as an editor on the classified page of the local newspaper. I got that job because I had been working with the newspaper as part of a high school job internship program where I was the sports editor of the HS student newspaper. Working with the newspaper staff they liked my grammar and editing skills and when a part time position opened up in the classified, they offered me the job. I was 16 I think. So I did that while going to school and also working as a busboy/waiter at a local hotel.
Anyway... when I graduated High School and was heading off to college I decided that the busboy/waiter job was not paying nearly enough and found an ad for a part time delivery driver for a local auto glass company. So I applied for that job and soon was driving a delivery van all over town.
Well, between deliveries I had "nothing do to" at the glass shop. So I started bugging people for things to do. One of the guys there made custom dual and triple pane windows, and he was always needing someone to help him hold something or measure something, so I just started automatically going over and helping him between deliveries. Then I started asking him to teach me how to do it, and soon I was making my own custom double pane windows.
So when summer came and the company got a huge contract to do the glass for a downtown skyscraper, I was offered the job.
That simple. So I quit my editing job and started cutting glass, making windows and installing glass in high-rise buildings.
More data for the hive mind: I started finally pursuing my bachelor's degree last year—fourteen years after graduating high school (I'll probably finish it by 2018). Community college is $1100 per quarter for me for two classes, plus textbooks (Chegg is my friend).
It is definitely harder today to do what I did in the late 70s. No doubt about it. But doing what I did then would cut your student debt by probably 2/3 or more if you did it. Which might make it manageable."Definitely harder"? No. It's an entirely different world. We've have 30 years of union busting since the late 70s.
So, I was actually hired as non-union. Which created lots of fun experiences with the union folks when they went on strike and I had to cross the picket lines to keep from getting kicked out of my apartment.
Good times...
You know those old cartoons about the non-union workers getting tossed in the garbage cans?
I can assure you that it happens.
By the time I was 20 years old and in my fourth year of college, I had been working in various construction jobs for four years. I had early on decided that retail wasn't a great option for making money and had instead applied for hard physical labor jobs that required an actual skill. Glazing is where I happened to end up, but it could well have been ironworking, sheetrocking (which is what my brother did), bricklaying or any of a dozen other construction careers that then, as now, had trouble finding people willing to take the jobs because you get dirty, sweaty and might lose a finger or two (my boss literally had only five fingers, distributed across two hands).
Maybe construction firms are having a hard time finding applicants, but I thought that these days they were having a harder time finding work.
Also, as far as union construction jobs go--those are notorious for being the kind of corrupt job trusts that anti-union people love to talk about. Did you just get the gig or did you know somebody? I remember taking the test to become an apprentice in the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers and it was a joke--after studying a huge book on the subject, I went there and it was just basic math so that even someone's dumbest nephew could get in. I knew nobody and, despite scoring a 97% or something, never got called back. :(
A friend and gaming buddy of mine is an electrician and he commiserates with this. Hisuuncle got him in I believe, but if it helps, he's frighteningly intelligent.
Well, I'm probably boring the heck out of everyone, but since you asked...
Well, you're not boring me.
Anyway, journalist, deliveryman, glazier...physicist was it? Sounds pretty cool to me. Like Jack London or Mark Twain or something.
It is definitely harder today to do what I did in the late 70s. No doubt about it. But doing what I did then would cut your student debt by probably 2/3 or more if you did it. Which might make it manageable."Definitely harder"? No. It's an entirely different world. We've have 30 years of union busting since the late 70s.So, I was actually hired as non-union. Which created lots of fun experiences with the union folks when they went on strike and I had to cross the picket lines to keep from getting kicked out of my apartment.
Good times...
You know those old cartoons about the non-union workers getting tossed in the garbage cans?
I can assure you that it happens.
Ah, well, it was nice to talking to you, scab.
A friend and gaming buddy of mine is an electrician and he commiserates with this. Hisuuncle got him in I believe, but if it helps, he's frighteningly intelligent.By the time I was 20 years old and in my fourth year of college, I had been working in various construction jobs for four years. I had early on decided that retail wasn't a great option for making money and had instead applied for hard physical labor jobs that required an actual skill. Glazing is where I happened to end up, but it could well have been ironworking, sheetrocking (which is what my brother did), bricklaying or any of a dozen other construction careers that then, as now, had trouble finding people willing to take the jobs because you get dirty, sweaty and might lose a finger or two (my boss literally had only five fingers, distributed across two hands).
Maybe construction firms are having a hard time finding applicants, but I thought that these days they were having a harder time finding work.
Also, as far as union construction jobs go--those are notorious for being the kind of corrupt job trusts that anti-union people love to talk about. Did you just get the gig or did you know somebody? I remember taking the test to become an apprentice in the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers and it was a joke--after studying a huge book on the subject, I went there and it was just basic math so that even someone's dumbest nephew could get in. I knew nobody and, despite scoring a 97% or something, never got called back. :(
My brother was in the carpenter's union out in Phoenix for a while. He cited the experience as being universally unpleasant all around. The people he worked with were vulgar, crude, and lazy, and he had to fight for weeks to get called in to jobs sometimes. He eventually just stopped showing up and went looking for a different job.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well, I'm probably boring the heck out of everyone, but since you asked...
Construction is down now but residential plumbing, electrical, home repair and many, many other trade jobs are currently looking for people to hire. I had to hire an electrician lately and the guy I hired was well past retirement age and was still working because there just weren't enough young people in the field, otherwise he would happily have been playing golf. Or that's what he told me. I'm sure he was glad to get the money.
This I can attest to. Indeed, hiring talented amatures is also gaining steam. (My step brother's done work around the Hermitage).
Ironically it also pairs with downturn in construction. MY home is almost 40 years old, and the entire complex is showing signs of it. (yeah, I suck at home buying skills) so as people live in buildings longer, because they can't afford new ones, those skills become more in demand.
More data for the hive mind: I started finally pursuing my bachelor's degree last year—fourteen years after graduating high school (I'll probably finish it by 2018). Community college is $1100 per quarter for me for two classes, plus textbooks (Chegg is my friend).
Do eet Liz!!!
Well, I'm probably boring the heck out of everyone, but since you asked...Well, you're not boring me.
Anyway, journalist, deliveryman, glazier...physicist was it? Sounds pretty cool to me. Like Jack London or Mark Twain or something.
LOL, I wish my life was like that. Or maybe not, many of those guys in those stories had a pretty rough time.
Still, here's a short list of the jobs I remember that I've done in my life:
Newspaper delivery boy
Parking lot cleanup
Busboy/restaurant waiter
Newspaper editor
Computer room technician
Physics lab instructor
Glazer (apprentice officially, but I did the full job)
Bank teller
Auditor
Fortran/Assembler programmer
Cobol programmer
Managing editor of a monthly magazine
Publisher of a family of monthly magazines
C/C++/Java programmer
Game designer (board games, although I never made any actual money at this...)
Writer (published articles on hiking, astronomy, gaming, programming and the computer industry)
Project Manager
Program Manager
I know I'm leaving some fun ones out...
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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So, I was actually hired as non-union. Which created lots of fun experiences with the union folks when they went on strike and I had to cross the picket lines to keep from getting kicked out of my apartment.
Good times...
You know those old cartoons about the non-union workers getting tossed in the garbage cans?
I can assure you that it happens.
If you were a bus driver, you might have been shot at.
My experiences with Unions was universally negative. My dad is a tried and true union man and he got disillusioned about the AFL-CIO and Teamsters.
He once asked me why I didn't support unions in my workplace. I said "I get paid (at that time) 30+K a year to sit on my aft and answer the phones. I get 4 (5 next year!) weeks of vacation, and a good health plan. Why would I want a union to come in and screw that up?"