OK, here's page 3. Five left, but I think I've got to take a break...
Isn’t there already an archetype similar to this? The beastmorph. I guess this goes farther down that path.
I think others have already given you better feedback than I could -- Cheapy already delved into it -- but I'm inclined to agree with them. This feels really overpowered.
As you note, this is a crowded area. I think it's a good lesson for Superstar (or a freelancer, I suppose) -- and this is coming from someone who did some serious parallel construction with another contestant in last year's monster round -- to be careful about doing something too obvious. All the builds on the Six Freedoms start to get lost among each other.
It all feels fairly well balanced, but I have to admit there's nothing there that really *excites* me. I don't feel like I can look at this and just sum up what's being changed in a quick sentence.
To use the parlance of Round 1, this feels like something that could certainly fit in a book of magic items/archetypes, but it just doesn't feel Superstar to me. I don't feel like you really introduced any new elements or gave me anything new to make me want to say "ooh, I really want to try this."
Not sure I love the name, though I can see where it came from. I like some of your intro text ("miasmic River Kingdoms") but it did also start to feel repetitive.
Whoa. Divine blessing seems really powerful. I could see players taking a dip into this just for that, especially since it doesn't replace any other ability.
Fervor also feels pretty powerful to me (and I don't think you need to note its retroactive). Solo tactics is pretty good too, so maybe it's not too much, but it feels like it's treading close to the line for me.
I like where you're going with rally, though I don't know if I feel like it quite fits the theme -- if she's trying to find those who are already strong, why is she helping them? Though I can see what the argument could be, so not a major issue.
However, I think the power needs some work. Does the ally get the bonus for any and every roll for the duration? Because at level 20, that could be really powerful. You're probably going to have at least a +5 bonus, so that would mean I could give a fighter ally +5 to every attack roll (i.e. four or five a round!) for 20 rounds! And what kind of bonus is it? What does it stack with? As is, it seems broken.
Divine Rush: Eh. Giving a feat instead of a class feature doesn't really excite me. Not a huge issue, since rally is your touchstone ability, but just a thought.
Paragon: I assume you meant this to replace true judgment?
Love the name. Your power names are also strong.
What kind of bonus is reckless gunslinger? This seems like it might be a touch powerful -- after all, you're presumably staying at range so AC isn't as important -- but I think it's a good swap with nimble. It does mean I might try to throw myself into heavy armor to make up for it (granted, I'd have to use a feat to get proficient in it) to make up for it.
Return fire feels good to me. Give you an extra attack, but you have to make the attack roll and means you're not leaving the enemy flat-footed, which can be really powerful.
Shoot 'em up feels really powerful to me. I think I'd make it cost grit points; it's easy for me to hold on to at least one, so I don't see that as a huge drawback. Arguably this could give her 10 attacks in a round if there are enough targets and that's just too much. I think there's got to be a limit somehow (maybe up to Dex modifier? or usual base attack + Dex modifier?).
Luck of the bold again feels like too much to me. From the way I read it, the gunslinger basically has concealment constantly, since they never have to get rid of that last grit point.
Domain: So they're forced to pick a domain and then get a subdomain in addition? Generally, forcing a choice is considered a bad design decision, as it takes away players' choices.
Inspired tactics: Interesting design choice. Would this stack with other abilities? Could I have a bard/cleric give out defensive bonuses with inspire courage? I'm not sure that's a bad thing, either way. I think I like this one.
Battle cry: Hmm, this one could make bookkeeping a bit tricky. I'm also not sure it's that big a help. Chances are as a player, I'm going to be using this on my fellow PCs, who are likely to be the same level. If I do that, I'm getting nothing out of it. Now, if I have a handful of lower-level followers, or summoned creatures, this could be useful, but as part of the payment for diminished spellcasting, I'm not sure it's worth it.
Conflict channel also doesn't quite seem worth it to me, especially since it's also got a drawback in addition to the diminished spellcasting. Sure, at face value it's useful, but I'd guess most clerics take Selective Channeling well before 8th level.
Improved Inspiring Command seems fine.
Oooh, you use spellblights, which means I like this. I really like spellblights.
I like that you're going for something different than so many of the other archetypes, which I think speaks to good design sense. I think your description text needs some polishing, but I'm going to assume that's because it's still an early draft
My first reaction was it feels very niche, but I'm not sure that it's any moreso than some of the aquatic -- or even locality -- archetypes that we saw. However, I think if you took off the limit of dealing fire damage just to trolls -- which is pretty arbitrary -- it wouldn't really be niche at all. It certainly may not be for everyone, but it could be something you could certainly see being useful in any adventuring situation. It might still be best against trolls and hags, but there are plenty of other monsters that fire damage or hampering their spellcasting would work against. The two abilities -- fire and spellblights -- feel a bit disparate, which might work against this in a voting situation, but I think they do make sense.
I'm not sure you need focused skill set. The other powers all have a clear replacement, and I don't think the powers you've introduced are so powerful that the class needs some other disadvantage to balance them out. (Though I am tired, so maybe I'm being obtuse.)
My other concern if it were being voted on is I don't know if everyone else shares my fascination with spellblights. They are a niche rule set, but then again so are haunts, so that might be a moot point. I also wonder if it might slow down combat a bit if I've got to be looking the spellblights up constantly as a GM and applying their affects in combat, but I suppose that's no more an issue than poison, and the poison magus was obviously really popular in Round 2.
This might be one of my favorites I've seen in this thread.
I like the first sentence of your description, but I thought it got clunky after that. " Creatures summoned by him" is awkward. I'd just do "creatures he summons..."
Gorgas slayer: Seems risky to tie a power to a monster that (to my knowledge) isn't actually statted out anywhere (if I'd gotten into the competition, I actually thought about making this my Superstar monster, though I think I'd probably have decided it was too risky). I dinged the mechanist for including a template in his archetype, but I think doing it this way works better. It at least feels more intrinsic to the archetype design, though I think it's probably still a bit risky. Having it work against elves also feels a bit odd. IIRC, they Seven Arches doesn't have a problem with elves; they're basically trying to protect the species as a whole by keeping them out.
I think you make some interesting swaps. It seems like it's really focusing on improving my summons, but my feeling (and I've never actually gotten to play a summoner) is I'd be focusing on my eidolon. Instead, you make my eidolon weaker by taking away some of its abilities/functionality while not really addressing what its role is. I think mechanically it feels OK to me, but just a bit odd. That's the key ability of the summoner but I feel like this archetype is indicating I shouldn't be using it as much. I feel like it would be more likely my eidolon would become the light creature/gorgas fighter.
Wow. Interesting. Truthfully, I haven't done enough with oracles to really comment on balance, though my gut instinct is it works (though I could see it also being simply called a different oracle's curse instead of an archetype). Maybe it feels a bit weaker than other curses, though? I can't quite decide.
I'm not sure I think the name quite works. I don't have any better ideas at the moment, but it's not quite right.
I think the other big consideration is it feels very plot dependant. If my adventure doesn't call for someone to be specifically hunting the PC as part of the plot, it's kind of a non-limitation limitation. He's being hunted and thus gets access to all his powers, but he's not really in any danger, because I've got other things planned. Or I can simply say he's not being hunted, but then the PC loses all his powers. I'd probably only allow it in a campaign where I knew my players were going to be targeted by the BBEG over the course of the entire campaign.
I think I agree with Oceansshieldwolf. I like the idea of the remnant, but I want to see more from it. Give it the powers instead of throwing in a couple new hexes my witch could (or could not) take.
OK, wall of fatigue is hitting me, so I think I'm calling it a night. I know I've got at least one more to do.
Still love any reviews of my uncrowned king. I may also repost a revised Branthlend Witch though mostly it'd just be clearing up a little bit of the wording (and probably making the bonuses come every four levels instead of three, so I think it may have gotten too much ahead of the 3/4 BAB even though it does have fewer hit points).
Thanks for the critique of Doombreaker. I agree it's tailored to a campaign with a specific type of plot, and thus not something I would be happy submitting in this contest, but I still find people's opinions on it interesting and valuable. :)
I still stand by my opinion that Luck of the Bold lacks flavor and granting a generally unconditional partial concealment is too strong.
And curse you, Jacob! You won the race!
Uncrowned King (Paladin)
Good: Lots of good flavor here. The mechanics support it very well. Symbol of Authority intrigues me, but I personally would have just made the paladin be able to select one domain and keep it, rather than switch domains at will.
Bad: On the alignment debate, I'm in the "don't alter the class's alignment" side. At the very least, require a Lawful alignment. I personally think this would suit a cleric better because it treats the character's relationship with his god like that of a cleric. Make it a cleric, give it a divine bond, and replace the channel positive energy with something more kingly. While the planar auras are intriguing, Aura of Influence could be very detrimental to himself and allies depending on what alignment he has. Maybe replace it with some other alignment-based effect?
There's also a few style errors, like the capitalization of ability names.
Would I use this?: Yes, I think I would use this in a Kingmaker game.
Freeman (Ranger)
Good: Another River Freedoms archetype. Okay, I like Oathbreakers die, but I'm surprised it has nothing to do with an enemy using Bluff on you.
Bad: Say What You Will strikes me as too situational for all of the many abilities you trade, but very powerful when it comes into play. Slavery is an Abomination is definitely too strong -- being able to end any compulsion effect immediately.
Would I use this?: No, unfortunately. Like I said with other Six Freedoms archetypes, using all freedoms makes the archetype feel less focused and lack a wow factor. You're better off just picking one or two freedoms and making an archetype all around that.
Mistwalker (Ranger)
Good: Very invocative theme here. I like it. Many of the abilities don't immediately grab me but make sense and could be useful. Nice RK tie-in.
Bad: Waterfall Surge confuses me. What does it mean he can takes the form of water instead of gas? You mean when he uses gaseous form? Water Vapors seems a bit strong.
Would I use this?: A little niche, but I would take this if I wanted to be a ranger in a place with lots of water.
War Range Wrangler (Gunslinger)
Good: I like many of the abilities. They have interesting mechanics and invoke imagery fitting of the archetype. Break Bronco seems fine with me. It's powerful enough to replace Gunslinger's Dodge and offers the gunslinger a way to gain a mount without copying the cavalier, a problem many mount-based archetypes suffer from.
Bad: Unmounting Shot is too situational. I would have condensed roping by saying the gunslinger can use a rope as a whip.
Would I use this?: If I wanted my gunslinger to be more westerny, I'd take it.
The Marked Guardian (Monk)
Good: Searing Mark makes me think of 4th edition's marking system. I really like the idea that at later levels, you can increase your allies' saves against the marked enemy. Mark of the Heavens is a cool idea: cast a spell on an ally and have it activate at a crucial moment. Bane of Worlds has a cool name.
Bad: I'm concerned about Searing Mark because many other similar abilities in this game are very limited. See the inquistor and cavalier's abilities. This seems like the monk can mark all enemies and grant his team a massive advantage.
I have mixed feelings about Divine Disciple. Not only do I not really like giving spells to non-spellcasters, but also it defeats the entire theme of the monk. The monk throws off his reliances in order to achieve personal perfection. A god giving him powers kind of deats that.
How does Spellbound Monk work? What does it mean he can mark a target imbued with a spell? That he can subject someone as the target of a spell when he makes unarmed attack? This ability isn't clear at all.
Bane of Worlds seems too strong to me.
Lots of style errors. Don't capitalize the archetype name in ability descriptions. Some abilities don't have a label on their type (Ex, Su, Sp). Some abilities don't indicate when the monk gains them.
Would I use this?: Erm...not sure. This archetype feels pretty messy, but I do like the idea of a monk that marks people.
Mechanist (Summoner)
Good: Okay, a summoner that creates mechanical beasts is pretty cool. And you accomplish this by placing a new template on them. I like this idea.
Bad: Like others said, it feels like the template is the entire archetype and making clockwork things doesn't mesh thematically. To help keep it fantasy, I would have made the summoner create mechanical things out of whatever is near him. For example, summoning a mechanical wolf in the forest creates a wolf construct with parts made out of wood, dirt, and leaves. The template itself isn't very exciting to me. The RK tie-in is a little iffy. This ties more with Numeria than River Kingdoms.
Would I use this?: I'm on the fence for this. Maybe for flavor.
Unknown Knight (Cavalier)
Good: Robber Knight is pretty cool, as is Trial-Claimer.
Bad: Robber Knight's name doesn't really match its function. The archetype's mechanics don't really invoke the feeling an unknown warrior. Covered Escutheon needs a complete rewrite. It's so confusing and the fact that you can trade it for banner again kind of makes it pointless.
Would I use this?: No, it does not really excite me.
Backwater Builder (Universalist)
Good: I always wanted an archetype that were all about building things, like an arcane engineer. I really hoped this archetype would fill that.
Bad: Unfortunately, I feel like it doesn't. This archetype mostly just getting discounts on crafting, which are a bit overpowered without adding any gameplay. Being a universalist as a requirement isn't good as it forces a player's decision, as Sean suggested. It also makes it too niche and would be better off as a subschool than an archetype. The heart of the archetype is Crackerjack Creator. However, the Golem Constructor discovery pretty much does the same thing sans the discount. Finally, there's little to no connection to RK and the archetype has many style errors.
Would I use this?: No.
Outsea Aquanaut (Alchemist)
Good: Hard water is pretty fascinating. I wish there was more information about it. What happens to creatures inside of the water when it hardens? How does it actually help sea dwellers trek on land?
Bad: I have to agree with you. This is more of an aqua transmuter. A whole archetype could have been made for hard water. The mutagen replacement isn't as powerful or useful, especially when it has a drawback. I personally would have made the mutagen come at the price of reduced movement speed on land.
Would I use this?: Sadly, no. As written, there's no wow-factor.
Uringen Warmuse (Bard)
Good: Faux Flank is pretty interesting -- fooling the enemy into thinking they're being flanked. I wish there was more powers in this archetype with this kind of trickery. I kind of like the theme of a bard eschews magic as a displine.
Bad: Taking away spells from a class featured as a spellcaster is a really bad idea. Not only is it a bad idea to take away core aspects of a class, but also many parts of classes are balanced around their ability to cast spells. HD, BAB, proficiencies, etc are based on the class's spellcasting. Take a bard's spellcasting away and he's basically a crappy fighter with performances.
Faux Flank is really powerful as it basically gives constant free Sneak Attacks to your party's rogue. It's also significantly more powerful than what you trade for it. You also don't say how often it can be invoked, nor do you say what action is required. It should have something like "as a standard action, you can target an enemy perceiving your performance." The enemy should be granted a bonus against repeated attempts. This power, overall, would probably done better as some variant of the Feint rules.
Would I use this?: Definitely no. I would only take this to abuse Faux Flank. Casting spells is a core part of the bard experience. I think your theme would have been better as a rogue archetype with some performance-like abilities, saying he used to be a bard. Anyone looking to play a bard will be instantly turned off when reading your archetype. That's not Superstar material.
Uringen Chronologist (Wizard)
Good: Time mechanics are difficult to pull off and the Wizard is a hard class to make archetypes for. But there's quite a lot of mojo here without the powers being too blatantly overpowered. I also like the design of the drawbacks, which invoke flavor and roleplay potential. Lend Time is pretty neat with a significant drawback that can be mitigated by summons.
Bad: I think the powers you traded are more powerful than bonus feats. Are you aware that Borrow Time basically grants you a free Quicken Spell? Staggered makes sense but it means a wizard can Quicken spells with no level increase. I'm also not sure why it's an immediate action. Other-Time Aspect's replacement is really awkward. I'm definitely not feeling the River Kingdoms tie-in. Even the tie-in to Uringen is very weak.
Would I use this?: Yes, I'd love to take this, even if the abilities were toned down. Not only is it flavorful, useful, and fun. I'd like to take this as a summon-specialist. However, I wouldn't take it for a River Kingdoms campaign.
Wyvern Tamer (Cavalier)
Good: A cavalier that rides dragons? You put gaining a wyvern at a higher level, which is more balanced than I'd expect from many archetype writers. Whip bonuses are a nice touch. I got excited but then...
Bad: Disappointment right off the bat. Spot and Search are not Pathfinder RPG skills. This could have been used as grounds for disqualification. I might sound harsh, but it hurts your credibility when you make Pathfinder content but refer to non-Pathfinder material.
Aerial Combatant is a neat idea, but these DCs are very high and many of these manuevers feel clumsy. I would have looked at monster feats for inspiration for what you can do with your wyvern.
Would I use this?: Sadly no.
Uringen Sentinel (Paladin)
Good: Unstuck Resolve is a neat and powerful ability that fits the theme perfectly well.
Bad: Unstuck Resolve is way too powerful for what you trade. You're trading an ability that temporarily heals a target of a condition for an effect that mimics a powerful 2nd level spell, grants you from +6 to +24 to your CMD (which I assume what you mean by 'against combat manuevers'), and saves against mind-altering effects. I think a fairer trade would be a blur effect that lasts X + Charisma modifier rounds. Even that seems strong.
Another problem is that this single ability is the entire archetype. Because you added too many effects, you had no room for other abilities aside from that 20th level ability. I really hate archetypes that tack on 20th level abilities because no one's going to get that ability and it makes it incompatible with other archetypes that also replace the 20th level ability.
Would I use this?: Yes, but because Unstuck Resolve is really broken. If it were more balanced, then still yes because conditions seem to come rarely for my games, so a partial concealment bonus is practical than curing conditions.
Aldori Rascal (Rogue)
Good: This is a solid, flavorful archetype. Not only is it appropriately hilarious (and vulnerable to Monkey Island references), but also the mechanics are good enough to make it appealing to play. This is also a pretty good archetype for a bard to multiclass with.
Bad: The biggest problem is that this has no tie-in to River Kingdoms at all. I'm surprised because this sounds like a perfect archetype for Pitax, ruled by a king that likes hiring bards to insult his enemies.
I always have mixed feelings about any non-mage class having resource points. It makes sense for mages to have energy reserves, but mockery points is a little too meta. I would add some flavor to this to explain why mockery is a resource like this (maybe he runs out of critical steam?). You also have a couple of style errors. Charisma should be capitalized in craven strike. Antagonize needs an ability type. Class abilities that grant bonus feats are usually labeled as Extraordinary abilities.
Would I use this?: Yes, I wouldn't mind taking this as a rogue. Heck, one of my players would probably absolutely love this archetype, and he doesn't even like rogues or Pathfinder. If you can make a class flavorfully appealing to someone who otherwise doesn't fancy the class at all, that's a good measure of an archetype with a lot of mojo.
I'm continually amazed by the people who are critiquing every archetype here.
Awesome job Cyrad, motteditor, nate lange, and others.
Thanks everyone for the reviews of the Marked Guardian. I'm working on a final version as we speak.
No problem, Orcus. And thank you, Cheapy. You give awesome critiques yourself.
Speaking of revisions, I'm considering ideas on what to give the kings remnant for Witch of the Ruined King. My current idea is allow the witch to use Intelligence for social skills when in possession of her kings remnant. Thus, a chief advantage of the kings remnant is allowing the witch to be the face of the party, which makes sense because it's encouraging her to act like a king. I'm not sure if this is the place for discussing revisions, though.
I paid close attention to the Everbloom archetypes that were submitted during round 2. This would've been my take on it:
The monastery to Milani in Artume occasionally sees the need to oust tyranny and oppression. Monks trained there emphasize covert and mobile strategies that aid in the evasion of ruling authorities. Such monks always worship Milani. They embrace strict discipline and reconcile the chaotic and rebellious nature of Milani in their motivations.
Alignment: Lawful good.
Aspect of Milani: At 1st level an Everbloom thorn chooses one of Milani's domains: Chaos, Good, Healing, Liberation or Protection. He gains that domain's powers and domain spell slots in which he can prepare and cast domain spells as a cleric of his monk level. This ability replaces all bonus feats.
Focused Blow (Ex): At 1st level an Everbloom thorn gains the feat Vital Strike. At 8th level he gains Improved Vital Strike and at 15th level he gains Greater Vital Strike. When using these feats the monk determines his base attack bonus using his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus. These feats can only be used with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons. This ability replaces flurry of blows.
Ki Pool (Su): In addition to the normal benefits of a monk's ki pool, an Everbloom thorn may spend a ki point as a swift action to use the feats gained through his Focussed Blow class ability as a move action instead of a standard action for 1 round.
Subtle Bloom (Ex): At 4th level an Everbloom thorn gains a +2 bonus on Stealth checks. At 8th level and every four levels thereafter this bonus increases by +1 to a maximum of +6 at 20th level. This ability replaces slow fall.
Crimson Rose (Ex): At 15th level, when an Everbloom thorn uses Stunning Fist and the target fails its Fortitude save, then in addition to the normal effects of Stunning Fist the monk does not roll damage dice but instead deals damage as if he had rolled the maximum possible on his damage dice. This ability replaces quivering palm.
From the Cobblestones (Su): At 20th level, an Everbloom thorn can rouse the oppressed. As a full-round action he may spend 8 ki points to grant all allies within 60 feet the ability to wield anything proficiently as if they had the feats Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything. Furthermore each ally's base speed is increased by 20 feet and they receive a +4 dodge bonus to AC. These benefits last for 1 hour. This ability replaces perfect self.
Ex-Monk
An Everbloom thorn who ceases to be lawful good loses all supernatural class abilities and cannot progress any further in monk levels until he atones.
What's this? A new archetype has slipped through my reviewing? *Wildshapes and pounces!*
Everbloom Thorn (Monk)
Good: You immediately make it clear what this archetype is all about -- both mechanically and flavor-wise (I'm surprised more archetypes weren't like this). It's a Milani monk that favors mobility. Vital Strike replaces flurry of blows so the monk doesn't have to full attack to deal his damage. This invokes Milani's liberation domain by allowing the monk not be so locked down in battle. Very clever. I also really like you address the alignment differences by saying the monk is reconciling Milani's chaotic nature but still upholding her motivations. Subtle Bloom is a nice touch.
Bad: Wouldn't Ki Pool enable the monk to Vital Strike twice in one round? I think that would make Vital Strike much stronger than Flurry of Blows until level 6.
Though this is personal taste, I really dislike the idea of the monk gaining spells. The theme of the monk is deriving power from one's self to strive for a greater cause. Deriving power from a god defeats that in a way. It's especially strange that a monk is gaining power from a god that opposes his alignment. I personally would have made the spells be considered spell-like abilities, indicating that the monk utilizing his own techniques to emulate Milani's domain. The mechanics could otherwise be the same.
I'm not crazy about Crimson Rose since it replaces a rather fun and cool ability with just pure damage. From the Cobblestones is a pretty fun idea for an ability. In some ways, I wish you toned it down enough to make it a lower level ability. I'm not fond of archetypes granting 20th level ability replacements since it causes compatibility issues with other archetypes.
I would have liked to see many one more ability about mobility instead of From the Cobblestones or Crimson Rose.
Some minor errors; you misspelled Focused Blow in Ki Pool and "Ex-Monk" isn't bold. I'm just pointing that out if you decide to revise.
Would I use this?: Yes. In fact, this is probably my favorite take on the Everbloom Monk. You went in with clear flavor and mechanical design goals and accomplished them. The end result is a fun and useful archetype with a strong tie-in to River Kingdoms.
Cheapy, your reviews are a lot more in-depth than mine, however...
Nice clear explanation of what this archetype does, which is nice.
Seems like a smart swap of class skills.
Ooh, I like stealthy start, though it's probably a power-up. The flavor's perfect, but considering you're going to get class ranks in Stealth, that's a big boost right off the bat. Even if you only took a one-level dip in this, you're probably looking at +4 Initiative and it will likely get better every round, while not needing to spend a spot on a feat.
Swamp step seems good, though maybe another slight powerup.
I was liking overcome quagmire until the line about holding your breath. Just didn't seem thematically linked to the other powers. Still, this one's probably a slight power decrease. I think I'd be hard-pressed to want this ability over Uncanny Dodge.
I feel a bit similar with improved overcome quagmire. The power level doesn't bother me -- in fact, I assume that's why you're stacking all these things on -- but it just seems like you've added a lot of items for a single power. Usually I think they tend to be more streamlined.
Nice name. I like the choice of thorn with Everbloom.
Domain instead of bonus feats. I think that's probably balanced. Definitely something I could see liking if I were playing a monk and makes sense for monks of Milani.
I think Garrick's probably right about Vital Strike being more powerful. That said, I think if you took out the change to Ki pool -- or limited it until later -- it would work.
Subtle Bloom seems a bit dull, though I think thematically it makes sense. I'm trying to decide on power levels. You're going to use Stealth more, but slow fall can prevent damage.
Can I use Crimson Rose in conjunction with the Vital Strike? I would think so, but that means we're looking at 48 points of damage at 15th level. Granted, that means you only are attacking once instead of three times, but I think anyone would take that. (Though I suppose that's still less than what a high-level spell can do at 15th level, so maybe that's OK.)
From the Cobblestones seems neat. I think it'd make sense that these monks could have a power like that and it's a nice way to present that power.
Good: Lots of good flavor here. The mechanics support it very well. Symbol of Authority intrigues me, but I personally would have just made the paladin be able to select one domain and keep it, rather than switch domains at will.
Bad: On the alignment debate, I'm in the "don't alter the class's alignment" side. At the very least, require a Lawful alignment. I personally think this would suit a cleric better because it treats the character's relationship with his god like that of a cleric. Make it a cleric, give it a divine bond, and replace the channel positive energy with something more kingly. While the planar auras are intriguing, Aura of Influence could be very detrimental to himself and allies depending on what alignment he has. Maybe replace it with some other alignment-based effect?
There's also a few style errors, like the capitalization of ability names.
Would I use this?: Yes, I think I would use this in a Kingmaker game.
Thanks for the feedback. I think I decided just giving him a domain was a little boring, but certainly a valid choice.
As for it being more of a cleric choice, I can see that. I think the problem is the concept behind the archetype doesn't really need to go with anything specific. But I felt like it was easier to make a paladin a chosen type of character vs. a cleric, who I feel like really needs to be someone who goes out and advocated for his god. And, yeah, Aura of Influence could certainly be detrimental. I guess I was assuming most parties have at least some commonalities in alignment, though you could certainly have an LN character with a CG one.
Style errors? Gah! Unforgiveable. That's going to bug me.
And now I think I'm caught up here!
Star Voter Season 6
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@Garrick
I toyed with a few different wordings on the Uringen Sentinel. My thought process was that having to expend Lay on Hands (instead of using the heal from it, you got Unstuck Resolve's effect instead) and giving up the abilityntomrestore conditions would even things out. I think now that I should've had it replace both abilities to even things out. The inclusion of the Lvl 20 capstone was the idea that the Sentinel basically became one with time and space itself. Anyways, thank you very much for your feedback. I'll take it to heart and use it to improve my creative processes.
Thanks again to everyone taking time out of their busy schedules to give all of us prospective designers feedback.
Thank you Garrick Williams and Jacob W Michaels :)
@Garrick Williams:
Bad: Wouldn't Ki Pool enable the monk to Vital Strike twice in one round? I think that would make Vital Strike much stronger than Flurry of Blows until level 6.
Yes, you can spend ki to get 2 Vital Strikes in a round (or Vital Strike and a combat maneuver, or some similar combination). It costs ki, which balances out the power considerably. Consider a normal 18 Str monk vs a 18 Str Everbloom thorn.
Normal: +6/+6/(+6) (1d8+4 x2); (4 str + 4 bab - 2 flurry)
Expected DPR against AC 17 without ki: 2 * 0.5 * 8.5 * 1.05 = 8.925
Expected DPR against AC 17 with ki: 3 * 0.5 * 8.5 * 1.05 = 13.3875
Thorn: +8/(+8) (2d8+4 x2); (4 str + 4 bab)
Expected DPR against AC 17 without ki: 0.6 * 13 * 1.05 = 8.19
Expected DPR against AC 17 with ki: 2 * 0.6 * 13 * 1.05 = 16.38
It is important to stress that ki is a very limited resource, and there are many uses for ki (my preferred use is +4 dodge AC). The normal monk typically does more damage than the Everbloom thorn; the exception is when they use ki for extra attacks - in which case the thorn does a bit more damage. This is perfectly in line with expectation of the archetype: the overall damage goes down a little (a normal monk is better at DPR) - but the Everbloom thorn can occasionally do significant damage, though generally simply relies on improved maneuverability.
Though this is personal taste, I really dislike the idea of the monk gaining spells. The theme of the monk is deriving power from one's self to strive for a greater cause. Deriving power from a god defeats that in a way. It's especially strange that a monk is gaining power from a god that opposes his alignment. I personally would have made the spells be considered spell-like abilities, indicating that the monk utilizing his own techniques to emulate Milani's domain. The mechanics could otherwise be the same.
I tend to agree with you here - but at the same time, I had a very hard time satisfying the word-count limitation (I had to cut a lot of text). In the light of that, I decided to keep abilities as clear and concise as possible - creating a wordy special spell-like ability mechanic would ultimately not make any meaningful difference but consume valuable word-real-estate.
I'm not crazy about Crimson Rose since it replaces a rather fun and cool ability with just pure damage
I wanted to make the archetype strictly less lethal than a pure monk. That said, Crimson Rose combos very well with the Vital Strike mechanic - since at level 15 you'd have Greater Vital Strike and with a monk's robe would be dealing 8d10 (or +80) damage when Crimson Rose triggers. Sure a simple "you die" effect like Quivering Palm is more lethal - but there's also something very cool about occasionally doing obscene damage with one attack. Additionally, unlike Quivering Palm, Crimson Rose is not once-a-day but Stunning-Fist-uses-a-day. On the whole I like this ability quite a bit.
From the Cobblestones is a pretty fun idea for an ability. In some ways, I wish you toned it down enough to make it a lower level ability. I'm not fond of archetypes granting 20th level ability replacements since it causes compatibility issues with other archetypes.
I made this ability specifically a capstone because of the awesome visuals it conjures in my head (akin to the original Quivering Palm) - there is just something cool about the idea of the Everbloom thorn channeling Milani in the form of ki into a whole town square full of 200 oppressed peasants and have them filled with the power and ability to take on the tyrant masters. Charge the Bastille!
I would have liked to see many one more ability about mobility instead of From the Cobblestones or Crimson Rose.
The way I see it, From the Cobblestone >is< a mobility ability (everybody gets +20 to movement afterall); some of the Aspects of Milani are mobility orientated (such as Liberation); Focused Blow, Subtle Bloom and even the Ki Pool modification all grant additional mobility based boons. Only Crimson Rose is an obvious ability that doesn't add to mobility - though it does enhance one of the other mobility enhancing abilities. I think I'm quite happy with the overall balance. :)
@Jacob W Michaels:
I think Garrick's probably right about Vital Strike being more powerful. That said, I think if you took out the change to Ki pool -- or limited it until later -- it would work.
Flurry of Blows is better than the Vital Strike chain; the exception happens when the monk can use ki to do more than one Vital Strike in a round - but that is a very limited-use resource; on average getting 3-or-so double uses of Vital Strike in a day is more than adequate.
That said, the mobility enhancing aspect of the modification to the Ki Pool should not be underestimated: since a Vital Strike only costs a move action - that means there is a whole standard action left for a complex action (combat maneuvers, spell casting, item-use, ability-use, etc). I think the real boon of the modification lies in that change.
Subtle Bloom seems a bit dull, though I think thematically it makes sense. I'm trying to decide on power levels. You're going to use Stealth more, but slow fall can prevent damage.
Subtle Bloom is not very exciting, but fits well - it is one of the few ability swaps that I consider "stronger" than the original monk. The removal of Flurry of Blows noticeably dampens the damage output and maneuver-versatility of the class; in that light I felt okay with Subtle Bloom.
Can I use Crimson Rose in conjunction with the Vital Strike? I would think so, but that means we're looking at 48 points of damage at 15th level.
Actually you're looking at 8d8 or 8d10 (i.e. 64 or 80) points of damage at 15th level - this sounds like a lot, but its a once-off entry in a round. And it replaces a "you die" ability. Taking 80 damage instead of dying, at level 15, seems an okay trade to me.
Flurry of Blows is better than the Vital Strike chain; the exception happens when the monk can use ki to do more than one Vital Strike in a round - but that is a very limited-use resource; on average getting 3-or-so double uses of Vital Strike in a day is more than adequate.
That said, the mobility enhancing aspect of the modification to the Ki Pool should not be underestimated: since a Vital Strike only costs a move action - that means there is a whole standard action left for a complex action (combat maneuvers, spell casting, item-use, ability-use, etc). I think the real boon of the modification lies in that change.
I agree that Flurry of Blows is better than Vital Strike, but that ki pool usage is part of what I meant that it makes Vital Strike more powerful. Not only does it enable Vital Strike to do more damage than Flurry of Blows at earlier levels, but the action economy bonus it grants a significant edge. You could simply say Vital Strike can only be used once per round and this would still be considered potent.
I do believe the ki pool needed something. It's a pet peeve of mine when archetypes take away flurry but don't give a new ki pool option. Flurry is already a big loss. Taking away the best usage of Ki Pool is overkill.
No problem, Orcus. And thank you, Cheapy. You give awesome critiques yourself.
Speaking of revisions, I'm considering ideas on what to give the kings remnant for Witch of the Ruined King. My current idea is allow the witch to use Intelligence for social skills when in possession of her kings remnant. Thus, a chief advantage of the kings remnant is allowing the witch to be the face of the party, which makes sense because it's encouraging her to act like a king. I'm not sure if this is the place for discussing revisions, though.
You could always post any versions/tweaks/edits in the Suggestions/Homebrew forums...
@Garrick Williams:
hmmm, I'm okay with 2 Vital Strikes a round - sometimes even an Everbloom thorn needs to make a stand. At higher levels, as the flurry progresses and more attacks are added, the Focused Blow loses a lot of steam compared to core monks and martial classes. This is offset nicely with the ki mechanic, and Crimson Bloom also helps put on damage highlights for the archetype. It doesn't compare with a smite, challenge or similar mechanic, but a couple of rounds of respectable damage go a long way to make the archetype well-rounded and enjoyable for everybody.
Warlord
Description - Actually, from reading the River Kingdom guide, a warlord as you describe it is a perfect fit for some of the regions. Kudos on that!
Weapon and Armor Proficiency - Little bone here, but I'm not sure why you say four specific martial weapons...wouldn't it be best to just say four martial weapons and one siege weapons of her choice? I'm not getting (at this point) why they do have 4 specific martial weapons they are proficient. They are a Warlord afterall...
Class Skills - OK I can see this :)
Warlord's March - I get what you are doing here, I just don't like that it is limited to those specific items. I would say something like any non weapon or non armor. Seems like it fits thematically, but something named March would suggest an ability that affects forced march endurance.
Ambush Sense - She gets a +6 (eventually) of a dodge bonus...but she doesn't get Acrobatics as a class skill? Could be weird to just me. But I like the flavor and what it's doing.
Siege Commander - Thematically it fits, but it seems a little boring to just get a feat at 6th. Especially since I'm losing a rage power...Not sold on this ability.
Inspiring Warrior - This is your bread and butter ability of the class and I feel like it should have come sooner. '
Overall - An interesting archetype to the Barbarian, definitely encourages more cerebral play from a traditionally less cerebral class. I like it, and the flavor, but like you said it's rough and needs some fine tuning. Maybe a reshuffle of when the powers come.
Warlord
Description - Actually, from reading the River Kingdom guide, a warlord as you describe it is a perfect fit for some of the regions. Kudos on that!
Weapon and Armor Proficiency - Little bone here, but I'm not sure why you say four specific martial weapons...wouldn't it be best to just say four martial weapons and one siege weapons of her choice? I'm not getting (at this point) why they do have 4 specific martial weapons they are proficient. They are a Warlord afterall...
Class Skills - OK I can see this :)
Warlord's March - I get what you are doing here, I just don't like that it is limited to those specific items. I would say something like any non weapon or non armor. Seems like it fits thematically, but something named March would suggest an ability that affects forced march endurance.
Ambush Sense - She gets a +6 (eventually) of a dodge bonus...but she doesn't get Acrobatics as a class skill? Could be weird to just me. But I like the flavor and what it's doing.
Siege Commander - Thematically it fits, but it seems a little boring to just get a feat at 6th. Especially since I'm losing a rage power...Not sold on this ability.
Inspiring Warrior - This is your bread and butter ability of the class and I feel like it should have come sooner. '
Overall - An interesting archetype to the Barbarian, definitely encourages more cerebral play from a traditionally less cerebral class. I like it, and the flavor, but like you said it's rough and needs some fine tuning. Maybe a reshuffle of when the powers come.
Thanks! I do want to do a revision (time has gotten away from me) and I will probably refocus it on the inspiring/marshal-esqueness and remove the siege stuff -- so other leadery things can be added at earlier levels as well. (A siege-themed barbarian could probably be a separate archetype.)
I'll rethink the class skills with that change in mind but I don't see jump/balance/tumble tied to dodging, per se. You get the dodge bonus because you're really good at sensing when someone's about to attack you, not because you're good at backflips. (But I like having Acrobatics as a class skill so if I can think of another way to balance things I will be sure I can do it.)
Another poster earlier on commented on the proficiencies and I think when removing the siege engineer stuff I will also revert them to just the normal barbarian proficiencies.
Avid Skeptic
A non-divine Inquisitor...hmm could be interesting. I'll admit first that I'm not overly familiar with Inquisitors but I've always wanted to play one.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: I get what you are doing here and I like it thematically. But gaining proficiency in ALL martial weapons instead of just the deity's favored weapon is a bit of an unfair trade. Maybe saying the Avid Skeptic can choose 1 martial weapon to be favored would be better.
Secular Authority - I like the theme but I'm not 100% on the name. I dunno what it is but it just doesn't click with me. This could be totally a personal taste thing, in which case feel free to disregard. Quibble on the formatting on this ability, Don't tack on the levels where you gain new spells to defend against in parenthesis. Make them a new sentence. When she extends this ability out, is it a radius? Straight line? etc. Kudos on making it only work on consciousness.
Divine-less Reprobation - Again, like the theme but not sold on the name. Now, this ability has LARGE ramifications for a divine caster. And I think gamebreakingly large. This should only be in effect for a number of rounds instead of "until they change religion". Like 1d4 rounds. And the recharge for this ability should be a constant number of times per day, or more balanced, 1x per day.
I want to like this archetype as the idea is cool. It definitely needs some re-tooling. Maybe your capstone ability should start at an earlier level and parts of the divine spellcaster's stuff can be broken based on level. I'd be worried about gamebalance as there are lots of evil cleric types as BBEG's and what if someone decides to do it on a party member?
Also, the reason for breaking up that capstone into levels...I'd get kinda bored waiting for that power to come with not much else in between.
Boastful Champion
So far I like it based on the description. A charismatic barbarian leader. Also subtly implies this is a smarter barbarian than normal.
Weapon and Armor - Ooooo not proficient in Medium? Interesting...not sure what to make of it until I read the whole thing...
Class Skills - I like these swaps. Very thematic. Maybe Knowledge Nobility would fit well as well.
Boasts - +1 and DR 1/- until encounter ends or Boastful Champ is unable to back up her boast. Should explicitly state what "back it up" means, although I understand that it probably means unconscious or killed.
Whoa...a whole list of boasts. This is cool but I think you are treading dangerously close to an alternate or whole new class. Cool that it is not just rage powers.
"If she succeeds her boast, she doubles her remaining rage rounds. If she fails, she is shaken for the rest of the day." This line bothered me and I think it was mainly because of its placement. It should be after the line of boasts.
Also, shaken for the whole day??!?!
Now I get the medium armor swap :) Also, I was going to make a comment about leveling the +1 and DR, but you handled that (albeit at the end). Maybe move that up before the line of boasts.
Hmmm, Improved Init over Uncanny Dodge...I don't think it's a balanced trade, especially as it's something of a power down, but it does fit thematically.
Behold My Conquest - Now this is interesting. An Int check for a Charisma type ability. I can't decide if this is smart and bold design or if it was an oversight. An argument could be made either way, although personally I would have made this Charisma based check.
Overall, interesting concept, but I don't know if is an Archetype or an alternate class that wasn't fully fleshed out. You've got some good ideas here but pay attention to the placement of your sentences. If we saw a final version of this against some of the winning Archetypes from R2, would I have voted for it? Not sure. Right now, no, a final version, MAYBE.
Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7
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Thanks, theheadkase. I've been caught in revision hell at work and haven't had a chance to step back in and comment as much as I'd like to have in this thread.
Maybe I did design an alt class, thought it was never my intention. I think the big thing is that I started writing the boasts and they got so fun that I couldn't stop writing them.
The whole archetype could use a couple rounds of revisions (which, I would have done had my wondrous item been wondrous :D ).
Here were some of my solves that I thought up afterwards.
Class Skills: I think Knowledge Nobility was going to eventually make it's way in, that said I didn't want to put too many class skills in a traditional Barbarian Dump stat.
Boasts: Yeah lol, I would have changed the wording to something like:
"Completes her boast or fails due to being fleeing the battle, being knocked unconscious or being killed. If the boasts target flees in defeat from the battle, the boast is considered successful."
That last part to stop those particularly sadistic GMs who like to use cheap outs to force a PC to burn a class ability haha.
Shaken for the whole day. Yeah, I want the penalty to be a rest of the day thing and
Shaken seemed like a good solve. My very first draft was that she lost her remaining rage rounds, but that seemed ripe for abuse with a PC boasting with no rages left or 1 rage left and taking advantage of the boast powers to supplement her rage.
Uncanny and Improved: Yep, I meant for it to be a bit of a balance to the DR and offensive bonuses.
Finally Behold my Conquest. This was a real tricky idea for me as I don't know enough about the crunch of the game yet to figure out how to do it right or if I was making things too complicated. Originally, I thought of letting you make a Knowledge History or Nobility check, and treating it like a Monster check, but instead of answers to questions, you get bonuses to an intimidate check. But my worry was you were going to have to roll twice, and I was going to make this a full-round action. So you activate "Behold My Conquests." You roll a Knowledge check DC 20, for every point over 20 you get you get a +1 to the intimidate check that followed immediately (maximum of +5) but this seemed super convoluted and that's why I tried to simplify. If I ever take the time to create a final draft of this Archetype, this is where I'll spend the majority of my time.
Thanks so much .
PJL
Outsea Seeker
First, the name. You already mentioned you weren't sold on it so I won't harp on it :)
Description - I like it, but it seems at odds with the name. He is called a Seeker, but the first sentence of the description mentions him being a defender. Just doesn't match up while I read. Piercing weapons bit is cool and flavorful.
Powerful Swimmer - Makes sense thematically. Mechanically, it reads that by taking a standard or full-round action then he doesn't lose any of his remaining rounds to hold his breath. So by taking a standard or full-action, I can never drown. A little overpowered, albeit only useful when there's water around. Maybe level stepping it starting at full-round, then standard, then move, then swift. That way it can allow for what I think you are envisioning but making it take a full-round at level 1 - ?(3 or 4 maybe) and so on.
Favored Terrain - You are taking away all other choices for a +1 every 5 levels. Shouldn't it be +2?
Hunter's Bond - Hmm, you are again forcing a choice. Not sure if I'm underwhelmed but I'm definitely not whelmed by this.
Underwater Freedom - Makes sense mechanically and thematically.
Watery Ambush - Thematically cool, but a little underwhelming mechanically, excepting the flat-footed thing. Again, some level stepping might be good, so he can get improved then total cover in later levels.
Overall, I just don't know that I would ever play this. There is no ability that screams cool and must play. Maybe a little more risk-taking in ability design would help. Also, the archetype just seems like it dies at 8th level and becomes a Water Ranger from then on. Not quite distinct enough for me, and if it was in the same round as the Water Snake this wouldn't have stood a chance. Good solid base, just don't be scared to get a little wild.
Anarchist
I guessed your description just from reading the name. Could be good or bad...but after reading the description this seems like an extension of the Spy.
Alignment - Yep.
Deceitful Purpose - At first glance it looked like you were just restricting knowledges, but the bluff and diplomacy checks are a good addition. After thinking about it, I like it.
Bardic Performances - OK, so at first glance I thought, "Great, just more bardic performances." But they are extremely flavorful and (I think) solid mechanically. Instill Treachery, does this control include releasing the creature back to its plane?
Chaotic Nature - This is cool and flavorful, but I would have liked to see +2 at 2nd level and for every X levels (like every 4 levels) up to a +10 at level 18.
Overall - I like this Bard. I'm not exactly sold on the name as it is a little more generic than I like, or maybe its just the description is a little light in distinguishing the archetype. You've got some good skill at making abilities (in this case Performances). You recognized it, but you really could have used more word count, so simplifying the Performances or cutting one of them would have helped you tremendously.
Master Thrower
At first glance from the description and name I thought this was going to be another knife throwing build. Its not and I like that its more expansive than that.
Class Skills - Yep.
Weapon and Armor - I could almost see a case being made for not being proficient with Medium armors as well.
Quick Draw - Level 1 quick draw, I'm assuming this is in addition to any feat gained at level 1. Not sure it's necessary because Fighters are so feat rich, but flavorwise it's spot on.
Hilt First - So, the first real ability for a throwing archetype is a non-lethal close range strike? Seems odd. Looking over the rest of the archetype quickly shows there is no actual ability that is specifically for throwing weapons. It almost seems like you wanted to build a ranged weapon defender specialist. Also, why wouldn't this ability negate the -4? The ability to change piercing or slashing to bludgeon isn't quite that big of a deal, but taking away the -4 to hit for non-lethal would have been.
Shield Catch - Bucklers should be able to catch a weapon, and step up the amount from there. A Tower shield should be able to catch at least 3. They are huge shields.
Actually, my comments will apply to the rest, so....
Overall - It looks like you wanted to build a ranged weapon defender. Which is cool and fine, but you called it a Master Thrower, and this is not that. If you changed this to be a Master Catcher (or some such) then this would be cool and fitting. As it stands it is totally at odds with itself. If you work on making the class name and description fit with the abilities then you would have a solid thing.
Upstart Aesthete
I love Alchemists! Let's see...
I like the description, even though I'm not familiar with the area or school you are talking about.
Alchemist's Vermillion - I like the name. He sheds light as a sunrod...yet gains concealment? I know what you are trying to do, but I think that's the wrong choice of words. Concealment is a game term and is thusly defined in the rules, a sunrod also does not increase past normal light. Perhaps anyone attacking should make a Fort save or be dazzled for this effect. And then in the next sentence you do the Dazzled thing...so I'm thinking a revision here about how or why shedding light 1 step up (up to normal light) causes concealment. Maybe its against creatures with low-light or darkvision? Faerie fire effect is cool.
Scornful Blast - Not sold on the name. A ranged Sunder? Cool. -4 to CMB...not so cool, especially as this won't scale well later on. I like that a direct hit causes full damage before hardness. Also, you are swapping in a feat for this ability as well (Agile Maneuvers), even though it does say it is only for this maneuver.
Entrancing Bomb - Fascinate 40HD of creatures at level 20? Cool! Oh wait, fascinate, so as soon as anyone attacks anyone else or casts a spell or whatnot, then the effect is broken. Boo. Maybe make this a tad more powerful by saying only direct actions against the fascinated creature that succeed automatically breaks the effect.
Overall - A cool idea you have. An artist (jealous artist at that) who uses alchemy to achieve some cool idea things. A few revisions and overall tightening of concept would do this well. Pay particular attention to game terms and how you are describing how certain abilities get around or extend those terms. Also be aware of the minor things in conditions, like fascination ending when a sword is drawn against the fascinated creature ending the effect. These little things can negate an otherwise cool idea.
Aldori Rascal
Description - This gives off the impression that its a Cha based Rogue who'll be flinging insults and maybe Dirty Tricks. I like the ties and the fluff so far.
Craven Strike - Hmm, cool modification of Sneak Attack. Flavorful and fits. Althought it does take a little bit of choice away from the player. They have to focus on Intimidate (Cha) or grab the Antagonize feat.
Nuisance - Hmm...a pool of points and an augment to how a specific talent is used. All this for trapfinding. Not sure yet how I feel.
Antagonize - Antagonize for evasion. I definitely see a concise vision, still not sure how I feel about it.
Harrassment - Not sure that I like that it has to be used before you make the check.
Frsutrate - Again, not sure about spending the point before making the check. Also, this is starting to become almost too focused on Antagonize...
Talents - Yep makes sense.
Overall - I like what I see as far as clearness of vision and tying fluff to concrete. I just don't think it appeals to me personally, and probably would be a divisive archetype amongst players. Not only tackling Antagonize, but making it the focus is a bold choice but can be really divisive.
Uringen Sentinel
I'll admit firstly that I'm not overly familiar with Uringen, so a lot of the descriptive text is lost on me. BUT I like the writing so far.
Unstuck Resolve - Hm. This is a doozy and I don't think I'm a good enough RPG Number Cruncher to fully stat out the implications of this ability. There's some concern I have about power here, and I also have some concern about how you are apportioning the ability in the levels. It takes 5 levels to be able to only expend 1 addt'l use of Lay on Hands to pass the effects on to adacent allies, but 5 levels later you are increasing the Sentinel's ability and the miss chance for allies (although reverting back to 2 addt'l uses). Seems like that's a long time to get the increase. Also, at 18th level you are basically reflecting back at the caster and the target is flat-footed, etc. Almost feels like it should be the 20th level capstone versus the one you currently have.
Ageless Sentry - Age effects don't normally come into play (generalizing here) and the capstone abilities surrounding age effects are pretty boring. This is pretty boring too. But fits thematically.
Overall - I think you take a big risk focusing on basically 1 ability, the Unstuck Resolve. I also don't think it pays off as written. In conjunction with Ageless Resolve, which is kind of boring, I don't think this one is up to snuff. From what I've read about Uringen and the archetypes from there, there are quite a few awesome potentialities with that place, so don't be scared to break 1 huge ability into several smaller abilities that add up to being cooler than the 1.
Wyvern Tamer
Wyvern Tamer is a cool idea on the face of it. That means it has a lot to live up to.
Description - " two things the folk of the River Kingdoms have in spades." I would say: " two things the Wyvern Tamer has in spades." Otherwise, YES!
Class Skills - They gain but don't lose any? Not that its a HUGE deal...but it seems a little indicative at this point that this archetype could lean towards the overpowered camp.
Weapon and Armor - See Class Skills.
Ambush Charge - The ability seems cool, but what does it have to do with taming Wyverns? Also, its ONLY against flatfooted, which I assume means this archetype will be sneaky, which in turn means that I would want to see them lose proficiency with Heavy and possibly Medium armors (although Medium might be needed if you are taming wyverns).
Dragonlore - Seems right, but I'd almost think they would need some kind of bonus to your ride skill with wyverns (or dragons).
Ruthless Whip - Starting to be a rodeo guy :) I like this though, but again...where's my wyverns? Thanks for linking to the feat thought :)
Wyvern Mount - Ahhhh finally. 8 levels to get my wyvern mount...as a wyvern tamer. Nice fluff touch with feeding your old mount to it. Wow though, -7 effective druid level. Seems steep, but maybe I don't know enough about it (entirely possible). I would be put off playing this archetype by that.
Aerial Combatant - Cool idea. You've got the highest DC listed first, and that is kind of off putting. The DC's get pretty steep, like DC 40 for Flutter to basically make an AoO as an immediate action. It shouldn't need that high of a DC since you can only make X number of AoO's a round. And you can get a maximum of 4 of these 5 gambits, which would almost guarantee the DC 50 Bolt from the Blue is never taken, especially as it HAS to end in concealment or cover.
Overall - You've got a cool idea...taming wyverns and riding them. That's what a Dragoon should be. But the archetype is kind of written all over the place, with abilities that don't seem to be related to the class, or DC's that are too high, and some strange choices in adding or dropping proficiencies/abilities/etc. I think you need to narrow the focus and tie everything together a little better. But again, with a name like wyvern tamer...that's a lot of expectation to live up to.
Uringen Chronologist
You don't lose points with me for making it about time travel (other than the bag of cats that time travel already is) since I don't know that much specifically about Uringen.
Arcane School - Good move. Even though it directly goes against Sean's thing about not taking away choices...it is too fluffy good NOT to have it here.
Lend Time - Whoa...cool idea. Shouldn't this take up a spell slot though? I mean...they aren't sacrificing anything other than giving themselves slow. Also, it just seems weird to be replacing a bonus feat. I dunno...maybe its not, but it feels like a weird replacement to me.
Borrow Time - Again, cool idea, but it really feels weird that this only replaces a feat. I really think it should be taking up a spell slot. Also, the way you take nonlethal damage doesn't quite jive with the description of borrowing time from your own future. Perhaps giving yourself slow or just being staggered the next round would be more appropriate.
Other-Time Aspect - First...NAME. I don't like it, just reading the name. You hit the spell slot this time and it feels a lot more appropriate.
Overall - You already know its a generic chronomancer, but there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that. If the other abilities took up a spell slot and the description and effect jived better in the level 10 ability, then this would be a little more solid. But even then, I don't think it quite lives up to the standard of the other Uringen inspired archetypes in the top 32. Good seed, just coax it to grow and add in some twisty fun, and you'd be superstar.
Warmuse of Uringen
I'm not overly fond of the name, and still not quite there with your description. I think this is a trap for the Bard archetypes in general, you end up spending a lot of wordcount on describing new Performances...almost to the detriment of your fluff.
Class Skills - I can see this. Although taking away Spellcraft and UMD fits thematically...it almost doesn't. Even though they've turned their backs on magic it doesn't mean they wouldn't study it. It fits more than it doesn't though.
Bonus Feat - Hmm. I'm not familiar enough with the Masterpieces ability to know whether or not specific bonus feats replacing spells is a good idea mechanically. Thematically, it again fits, but mechanically I'm worried about underpowering.
Poet Warrior - I would almost like to see the ability to choose more Perform skills with this as well...losing cantrips is a big enough deal that I'd say it would warrant adding more choices to the list.
Bardic Performance:
Faux Flank - Not a fan of the name...but I can't figure out why. Better than Fake Flank but still just can't get myself to like the name. I like this ability. I can't say much else about it. Good job.
Teamwork - I don't like the name because of the possible confusion with the Teamwork feats and the Battle Herald ability of the same name...etc. You are stepping on the toes of other classes/archetypes that do this but it is a good thematic fit. A trifle uninspired though.
Versatile Performance - OK.
Overall - I'm not wowed by the archetype as is. It feels like a rough draft (which it might be after the R2 announcement). I think if you revised to get some better ability names and spice up the abilities you've written you'd have a solid class. Unfortunately I think you are going to run into the problem of the Battle Herald already existing.
Outsea Aquanaut
Another Outsea Alchemist? Let's see if it stacks up to the Top 32 version...
So the description leads me to believe these are Alchemists who live on land in the Outsea and are jealous of their water living neighbors? Or that they live underwater and despise the segragation ideas they see from their fellow underwater livers? Cool idea either way!
Class Skill - Yep.
Steam Bomb - The name doesn't quite fit with the ability. At first I was thinking that it would be a bomb that used steam to deal damage and possibly make a cloud to obscure vision, but it is an ability that allows bombs to be used underwater. I'm not sure about reducing the range to 5 ft. Maybe half of its remaining so that if you threw it 10 ft above water it would have 20ft remaining for the 30 ft, but could only travel 10 ft more underwater. Also not sure why the damage would be reduced. The range penalty is stiff enough as written to not need damage reduction.
Outsea Mutagen - Its a risky proposal taking away Ability score modifying and natural armor. I'm not sure that its an equivalent exchange but its flavorful and thematic. I think if you would have included that they get shark's teeth (bite attack) or some kind of strangle ability (like an eel) then it would be perfect.
Hard Water - This is a quirky ability and I think I know what you are going for. I like the idea of it. I have some mechanical questions though...for example what happens if they try to use this ability on raging white waters? Wouldn't REALLY make sense for that section to become hard without being swept away or broken by the surrounding waters. Also, 5ft x 5ft x 1in isn't that much...basically you can create a 10 ft bridge at level 2 and a 100 ft bridge by 20th level. This will get outshined quickly by about level 6 or 7.
Walking Tide - Aha, you also thought of later levels with Hard Water...But he can only move the area 10ft forever? Why not more at later levels?
Marching Tide - Aha! You did it again :) I think you are splitting up abilities a litte too much. Walking Tide and Marching Tide could be 1 ability with level staggering.
You already know this is a rough draft and you already mention you wanted to work on the name so I won't harp on that. Aquamancer doesn't seem like the right choice though :) Overall you've got some cool ideas they just need to have their balance worked out. You don't have quite the archetype to get past R2, but with a couple of revisions I have no doubts you could have.
Backwater Builder
I'm on board at the moment...I actually had family that lived near moonshiners in NC when I was young. I would always ask what that white smoke was coming from 'round the mountain...
At first glance it feels like it should be an alchemist as opposed to a wizard.
Brew Potion - Yeah I can see you'd need this. And most backwaters wouldn't need scribe scroll.
Class Skills - Yes and flavorful.
Jury-rigged/Scrounger - I think you missed a fluff opportunity by not saying something about this being because they are so adept at using the materials at hand. Other than that...the 20% and Knowledge(Dungeoneering) parts are kind of unrelated to each other which leads me to believe this should be 2 separate abilities.
Crackerjack Creator - This is your bread and butter...and I really feel like you don't go enough in depth on this. Or have enough support abilities that go with this. This could definitely be at an earlier level and could benefit from level stepping different abilities within it.
Overall - It is rough and you knew it. There needs to be more in support of the bread and butter ability. More support abilities and more to the ability. Also, I dunno...it just feels like it should be Alchemist based. More fluffish stuff. Also, it goes Ability Name (Ex,Su or Sp) not (Ex, Su, or Sp) then Ability Name. I like the idea, I'm a big crafting fan and constructs are potential for fun on a bun.
@ theheadkase
Shine on your crazy diamond!
Agreed, this is cool that you are keeping up with this.
I am still lurking this thread so your analysis is being noticed. Nice job theheadkase. :)
Agreed. I'd still love more feedback on my Uncrowned King.
Whew! Thanks all, another 1 or 2 should be coming up soon today.
Wildstrider Monk
I had a Monk archetype in mind for my OTHER (and I think now should have been my main) R2 entry (that I also didn't get to put into the contest). I'm curious to see where you take this Monk.
You mention the lawless fringes...but don't really mention why there would be a sect of monks there...just seems a little odd.
I like the description about using the settler's tools.
Class Skills - I'd imagine that Sense Motive would actually probably be pretty well developed in these kinds of areas...but Knowledge(Geography) and Survival I can definitely see!
Bonus Feats - My only complaint is that Shot On The Run is really for a ranged type, taking away a little bit of choice...but then again it kind of adds choice since the Monk is overly focused on melee to begin with. Flavor wise I like it...not sure yet how I feel.
Weapon Proficiency - Cool and flavorful. I like this decision.
Weapons of the Frontier - You are accounting for Flurry...and doing so with flavor.
Unbroken Stride - Wow...there's a lot here. At its base...it allows for a kind of spring attack. You move...attack...then move. I assume this is a Full Round Action? I'm going to harp on this in two places...I find it odd that you reference Stream of Strikes in this ability, since when reading it you have no idea what Stream of Strikes IS yet. At 4th level your first opponent cannot make an AoO against the Wildstrider until the end...who's turn? It is oddly phrased and can cause some confusion on who's turn needs to end for the AoO to be enabled again. I like the ability...as it reeks of cool. But there's some questions that a couple of edits would likely iron out.
Force of the Current - Cool and builds on Unbroken Stride.
Stream of Strikes - Here is a cool ability that I feel like should have been before Unbroken Stride. Basically, this would allow you to move 10ft or more and make a Flurry, and if you switched places with Unbroken Stride then it would be a natural progression to allow movement after attacking.
Overall - I like this monk, but I think this version suffers what a lot of ours that posted here did...once you found that you did not progress to R2 then the edits stopped. I think another couple of edits and you would have had a super cool monk idea that was far different than a lot of the other ideas that made the Top 32.
Unknown Knight
Right off the bat, with the name, I've got a high expectation. Classically, knights were generally rich enough to afford armor and the like, so unless there was some horrible event that brought them down in ignomity then there's no way they would be unknown. Color me intrigued!
Aha! You already knew that and wrote your description to reflect that. Cool. But yeah...that first sentence...doozy. And not a good doozy :)
Class Skills - Fitting and thematic.
Robber Knight - Well...the name of this ability doesn't quite jive with the theme of this knight. They'd have a hard time redeeming themselves if they keep robbing. I didn't actually know Appraise could identify magical properties...cool use. But, you can only do 3 items by end level play. Its cool and flavorful but a little underwhelming in how many times it can be used.
Trail-Claimer - Oooo messing with charge mechanics! Would this work with a readied action? I can see this being very useful move out of the way of those pesky crates or tables or whatever. Could be a little pesky for GM's and a party consisting of these could charge down an encounter.
Covered Escutcheon - I see what you're going for and I like the idea. This ability frankly lost me on the 3rd or 4th ability. You are running into a Wondrous Item problem...the Swiss Army Knife...although these separate things are a little more related than most SAK's.
Ford-Holder - I just want to make sure that this is ONLY through water or mud...and not when it is just difficult terrain?
Overall you have a cool idea with a lot of flavor in it. You need to work on tightening up and cutting where things grow a little too long. Also make sure you think through what each of these abilities effects can have on the GM AND the players.
Mechanist
I don't know about the history you provided...as in I literally did not know about this bit of lore. Cool. I get it from the later levels...but the name doesn't have what class this is an archetype for. Mechanist(Summoner) is what it should have been.
Class Skills - Disable Device makes sense.
Mechanical Genius - Yep makes sense and is thematic.
Mecha Eidolon - Whoa...mechanized template...is it still an outsider and can it still be banished? Is it mechanized when its summoned? I think maybe this should be a skill to BUILD your Eidolon as opposed to just templating the Eidolon class ability. Also, losing Evasion AND improved evasion...that's heart wrenching but I get it.
Automaton Summoner - Makes sense and cool but...Aren't beings that would normally get the celestial or fiendish templates already outsiders? Wouldn't they be excluded from being summoned because of the wording in the next sentence? Otherwise this is a pretty cool ability.
Annihilator Class Allies - Methinks you had a different name for the Archetype...Seems cool
Mechanized - Ok with the template you invented here I understand some of the choices in the previous abilities. Cool that you did this...but I think you could have used the word count to tighten up other things.
Overall - I'll start by saying I love the idea. But a lot of people will hate it. When you mix steampunk or scifi with fantasy...well...people get heated. Add to that, you are archetyping a class that is already prone to being overpowered and is already divisive. I think this archetype is in danger of being overpowered by a crafty player. And at high levels it will get a little ridiculous with the ginormous automaton summons. Super bold swing and it is something that I like...but I just don't think this would fly with the crowd...nor the judges...in general.
The Ravagers.
I can't read this...if you'd like a review from me please submit something edited down and at least a rough draft for RPGSS.
The Marked Guardian
No fluffy description! Bold! I miss it though.
Searing Mark - I'm assuming these abilities don't stack...right? Its a divine mark...but it does with ink or dirt or just by holding two fingers together and dragging them across the opponent's skin?
Divine Disciple - Paladin Spell list in exchange for Ki...and by extension ALL ki based abilities. Cool...because a Monk SHOULD have some sort of spell list :)
Sliding Step - Hmm...cool.
Spellbound Mark - I'm not sure exactly what this means. What happens if they use Bless on an opponent...how does this actually work. Is it like one of the symbol spells? And I can see how delaying it would be useful on an ally...but I just don't think its mechanically sound enough.
Mark of the Heavens - This wouldn't work if they got hit hard enough to kill them...right?
Bane of Worlds - Cool and makes sense...although I'm not getting a CLEAR idea of what this Archetype is.
Overall - It is very rough and I think you know that. This could use a few or more edits to tighten up the vision of what this archetype is supposed to be. I like what I think this is...but its not ready for primetime.
Range War Wrangler
Not sold on the name...perhaps just Ranged Wrangler. Why does it have to be War?
Ahhh maybe if I'd been a little more patient in reading the description :) I like the name now.
Deeds - OK...I don't know much about Gunslingers since I've never played one and don't own the book yet. But...This strikes me as odd that you are focusing the archetype on essentially just replacing deeds. Kind of against SKR's advice like just doing Rage Powers for a Barbarian.
Break Broncs - I think you should have them choose if the +4 goes to Str OR Dex...as opposed to granting both. This gives more flexibility so it can work with Roping later but still allows for it to NOT work as well with it if the player doesn't see themselves using it as much.
Unmounting Shot - I think you should make it 2 grit points...feels like you are getting a lot for just 1.
Roping - It is a cool idea. But I don't think it's quite there. I think the damage should be equated to falling damage, since a lariat doesn't actually cause damage itself...rather falling off the mount would or getting dragged on the ground while lassoed would cause the damage. I like the special abilities on the lariat.
Barrelling Turn - Again...a good idea.
Overall take my words with a grain of salt since I don't know much at all about the class. I think you are giving a little bit too much in each deed for what you are spending in grit points. It doesn't wow me or make me want to play a Gunslinger, but I do like it.
Mistwalker
Hmm...the description leads me to believe this isn't so much a party member as a beneficiary aid in a certain area. Could be good...or bad.
Class Skills - Agreed.
River Pirates' Bane - So hopefully the pirate band includes a favored enemy! What if the favored enemy is Goblinoid...but the pirates are Elves (for some reason). Other than that...COOL! I like this ability flavorwise and the mechanical bonus is good. The wording is a bit wonky near the end but that's a general area you already know you have to work on.
Water is Life - Ooo...I didn't see this ability coming. Fresh water breathing starting at 3rd level. And the ability to detect fresh water streams and rivers within 200 ft...pretty flavorfully cool. I'm not certain if it is too useful to always have indefinite breathing under fresh water at that level...
Misty Vapors - ...I love this ability. Seriously. It conjures up images in my head of fog rolling over the lake I used to go to as a kid.
Water Top Dancer - The name doesn't sell me. And (sorry for this) it could be a little dicey for the Christians as this basically makes the Mistwalker a bit of a Jesus Christ figure here. But I like the ability and I love the must move 10 ft every round or sink restriction.
Waterfall Surge - This is a super cool idea, but I'm automatically leary of anything that grants automatic success. Maybe a +10 or whatever to his Stealth roll. But it is fluffily cool.
One with the Flow - This is seriously cool and you've led up to it in a cool way. What happens, though, if they DO try to go into a briney area where the river meets the ocean? Do they reform automatically? This is a good imagery...basically a watery teleport. You wisely made the choice that it is restricted to water that the original body entered is connected to.
Overall you've got some pretty sweet ideas for a water based ranger. I'd be willing to say you have the fluff of the Top 32 entries, but you left some questions in the mechanical parts and just a couple other minor niggles that don't quite solidify it for me. But...as awesome as I thought the Top 32 Water Snake was...This one is close to being as awesome. Well done and make sure to revise some of the wonkiness in phrasing while working through the bit of mechanical stuff that has some lingering questions.
Dude, you are an ironman.
Overall take my words with a grain of salt since I don't know much at all about the class. I think you are giving a little bit too much in each deed for what you are spending in grit points.
Thanks for the critique, though it is fairly obvious that you are not familiar with the gunslinger class. I don't blame you. It is not a very popular class and the western elements don't mesh well with the average player's idea of fantasy. And my Range War Wrangler takes this up another notch. This is the reason I submitted a different archetype for round 2, which was likely a mistake. I'd have probably made it through with this one.
First, deeds are not selectable options like rage powers or rogue talents and all of the existing gunslinger archetypes replace deeds in this way. Break Broncs needs work which I pointed out in my introduction and some of the other critiques helped me come up with a good fix for it. Having it cost a grit point and lasting an amount of time based on gunslinger level both balances it and restricts its usefulness for cavaliers who take a dip in gunslinger to get this archetype or take the Amateur Gunslinger feat. With Unmounting Shot, there are a few deeds that cost 2 grit points, but most of these have other options costing a single grit. Unmounting Shot is very situational so I didn't want to over price it. I even made it more powerful because it is fairly rare to face mounted foes and is useless against monsters. In fact, this odd and there is no reason it should not be able to trip an equine that does not have a rider. As for Roping, the damage is not falling or dragging damage because that is not a function of the weapon and I let that sort thing be covered ad hoc by the GM based on existing rules. Actually, there is a built in mechanism for "dragging" damage, or maybe "constricting" damage as it allows you to deal damage with the grapple ability and lets you use your mount's Str bonus for this damage. The lasso itself deals damage on a throw as a whip (non-lethal), which I think is reasonable. Maybe I should allow it to "move" and "damage" in a grapple at the same time to represent dragging?
Ahhh that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for the clarifications. I think my next purchase will be this book so I can finally learn all about the gunslinger.
You can just look on the PRD, headkase. It's in there.
Very true Jacob...number...um...I forget which number Jacob :)
There's something to having the book, though, that contributes to me being able to understand something better :)
I've not got anything against Western themed fantasy...I just haven't had experience with it. In fact...I may now look on the PRD over the next couple of days because this exercise has me interested to learn the ins and outs of the class.
Heads up Nickolas...I may do a revised review once I look over the class.
And Jacob...The Uncrowned King is coming sometime soon!
Range War Wrangler (Revised)
OK! Now I've read through the class a couple of times and I think I understand a little better how it works, so here's a revision!
Break Broncs - I still feel like there is a more elegant solution than restricting to time based on Gunslinger level and costing a grit point (although that is a good idea!). This ability makes me think of any number of westerns but the story that pops up in my head is Pecos Bill and when he broke Widowmaker. Was it because he was strong or was it because he was nimble enough to not get thrown and outlast the horse till it got tired? I think the choice should lie with the player. And after he broke Widowmaker, that was one fine horse, but would it have gottena bonus to Str AND Dex? I don't know for sure. At first level, the 3 1st level Deeds are missing a "at least 1 grit point" type Deed, so I think you actually chose well to have that in this space. Maybe if you say they can spend an additional grit point to give the +4 to both Str and Dex, then it would be more in line with the power level of the other 1st level Deeds.
Unmounting Shot - On second read through (and after studying up on the class) this does feel in line at 1 grit point. My question is why doesn't it provoke an AoO on the trip attempt from some other enemy that is within range? Maybe wording it that the gunslinger may make a trip attempt as a free action as though using the Improved Trip feat would be clearer...and I didn't know you could trip in return? You are right that this is very situational so 1 grit point is a good choice, but you are already giving a +4 on top of any CMB they already have for trip...and what happens if the mounted enemy's steed is something that is immune to trip? Maybe an option to spend an extra grit to bypass those kinds of immunities.
Roping - Yeah I guess I can see the whip for when you tighten the lasso around the thing...that could be damage. I like the "move" and "damage" on grapple though, because really, what else are you going to do with a lasso beside drag something and then hog tie it :)
Overall, I think my lack of understanding the class is something that is shared by many, and it is definitely something to consider when creating an Archetype for a class that is prone to that. People will not know (or don't want to know) the ramifications of what each replacement means. That said, I like this better on a 2nd review with expanded knowledge...It is thematic and flavorful and the above things are truly nitpicks as you already have builtin allowing the GM to arbitrate most of those questions. I still like Barreling Turn a lot. I didn't count your words, but I am just curious if you had any other abilities in mind to add to the Archetype? The Deeds not being a selectable thing does make the class in general focused on those but I feel there's a design space open for more abilities and one or two less deeds. I do like this archetype now and it is probably the one that I'd want to play if I ever get the chance to play a Gunslinger.
Freeman
I'm curious to see what this ranger will bring...one who's soooooo invested into the Six River Freedoms that it shapes their powers.
Say What You Will - Doesn't feel like its a fair trade. You give up a lot of what a ranger is and does to get 1/2 level bonus to saving throws that are language dependent AND mind affecting. That narrows down quite a bit as spells could be spoken in any language and intimidate type abilities usually aren't language dependent.
Oathbreakers Must Die - Hmmm...I get what you are doing here. And I like the flavor and idea of it. In execution though...I just feel like this is going to create headaches for players AND GMs. At 1st level...does the Freeman have to witness this oath being broken? What constitues willing...what if someone signs it but you failed a Sense Motive check to check for forgery or something like that? Same types of questions for reliable evidence at 10th level. Favored Enemy is so much more flexible because it is a type as opposed to a specific opponent.
Walk Any Road - Ooo this makes flavorful sense!
Courts Are For Kings - Not sure yet how I feel about this. I think it makes sense but will this shut down a lot of AP BBEG encounters?
Slavery Is An Abomination - Cool and flavorful...Ouch for Evasion but it makes some sense.
You Have What You Hold - Again makes sense and again ouch for Improved Evasion.
Overall - I think I like this more than other Six Freedoms based classes, but it falls into the same traps. The Six Freedoms were an understandable and expected area for development when the River Kingdoms twist was announced. I wanted to do something with them as well, but I found that they were a little too limiting in the abilities they could produce and still be true to what each freedom was. You do a good job on working with them and making the theme and flavor work with the abilities you came up with, but you almost made something that's not a Ranger at all. There's some questions I outlined above but you've got a fantastic idea that may be better served to not be too tied to the twist that was announced.