Drow - help to chose a class


Advice


I have to play a drow in an underdark campaing and I really have no idea what to play, nothings really excite me about the race, so lets the forum do its magic.

Definitely a NO: Barbarian, alchemist, wizards,Druid ,cleric, paladin, gunslinger, inquisitor, summoner, ninja, samurai,.

What I have thought about the other classes:

Bard: I could consider to play a bard if somebody can show me a build that do not rely in buffing others party members. I would like a melee bard that can overcome the enemies by his own power.

Cavalier: Is there a way to have some kind of lizard as a mount?something that can travel underground without much problem?

Fighter: I would play a fighter if I do not like the other option. Some exotic fighting style would be the best.

Monk: maybe a sohei with a dip into unarmed fighter for the style feat and the proficiency in the temple sword.

Ranger: This class is solid but I do not really like it, I could give it a try just for the a mount of skill points. It have to be a non caster, non archery based ranger without a bounded animal (unless a lizard mount). Preferible with some exotic fighting style.

Magus: Maybe a kensai or a bladebound. Is there another good option for a dex based magus without the dervish dance feat?

Oracle: If I play an oracle It have to be a non battle oracle. Maybe a save or die based oracle or a blaster, I would like to crush enemies b y own not to buff/BFC so others party members can win the fight. Some mistery related with drows, evil or madnes would be better.

Sorcerer: as the oracle. something that can destroy enemies without rely in his party member. The most direct method posible.

So, what the forum reccomends?


Well arcane duelist archetype bards are somewhat good at melee. They get arcane strike as a free feat, which adds scaling damage (1 to 5) to your melee attacks with a swift action. They also get access to heavy armor at higher levels in the same way as the magus class. The interesting thing is that they can also use shields without it interfering with their spell casting, so they can have the best AC of any spell caster. They can also get higher AC for cheaper, since a set of +2 armor and +2 shield are cheaper than +3 armor. While some view sword and board unfavorably, you seem to be in an evil campaign. The fact that the enemies will target others rather than you is a bonus. A set of bonus feats designed for combat casting, messing up spell casters in melee, and getting around DR. The changes to their performance list adds in a performance that lets you add enhancements to weapons or special qualities, which can be useful if you need ghost touch in a hurry for example. That bonus could go to other party members, so they might still try asking your for the buff, and they will have excuses for targeting you when you deny them.

The dawnflower dervish archetype(or dervish of the dawn... srd is getting weird) also can fit your desire for a bit of a selfish bard. Three of their boosting performances do not work on other players, but in return their bonuses to you is doubled. Many take the archetype to get Dervish Dance at first level, and that obviously good well with your racial modifiers. Also, during your performance, you can speed up a healing spell from a standard action to... a move and swift action. So you can heal yourself and still get a hit in, I suppose. The only problem is that you would need to worship a NG goddess of the Sun... which is problematic for drow. Could be good role playing though, but your GM will call you out for it due to Dervish Dawn.


Bard: They don't have to buff the party, though every bard style has ample capacity to do so. I'd suggest looking at the Arcane Duelist archetype. Focus on strength, Inspire Courage or Bladethirst at the beginning of the fight, and then kick ass. Plenty of skills and spells are a bonus.

Cavalier: I'm playing one right now, and getting into it. Order of the Cockatrice is the go-to for characters who want to be awesome by themselves. (Their code states that they have to be out for themselves!) As far as a lizard goes, talk to your DM. If he doesn't allow the mount for the base class, he might allow it for the Beast Rider archetype.

Monk or Fighter: I love the Style Feats. Maybe pick one and go with it. (Or be a Master of Many Styles and pick more.) Unarmed Fighter has always struck me as interesting, and it seems viable.

Ranger: Don't do it. Nothing wrong with the class, it may be my favorite. The world just doesn't need more drow rangers with exotic fighting styles.

No advice for a magus. I don't think any non-Dervish Dance options are great for a dex build, but I don't know the class.

Oracle or Sorcerer sound like they would play similarly. A Save-or-die build has some fun potential, but might be frustrating to you if they keep saving. Or frustrating to everybody else if they don't.


Nicos wrote:
Bard: I could consider to play a bard if somebody can show me a build that do not rely in buffing others party members. I would like a melee bard that can overcome the enemies by his own power.

Dawnflower Dervish gets performances that give double the benefit but only affect themselves.

Nicos wrote:
Ranger: This class is solid but I do not really like it, I could give it a try just for the a mount of skill points. It have to be a non caster, non archery based ranger without a bounded animal (unless a lizard mount). Preferible with some exotic fighting style.

What is with you and a lizard mount?

Nicos wrote:
Magus: Maybe a kensai or a bladebound. Is there another good option for a dex based magus without the dervish dance feat?

Without Dervish Dance, you need an Agile weapon, but it's fine otherwise.

Nicos wrote:
Oracle: If I play an oracle It have to be a non battle oracle. Maybe a save or die based oracle or a blaster, I would like to crush enemies b y own not to buff/BFC so others party members can win the fight. Some mistery related with drows, evil or madnes would be better.

A Heaven's Oracle with Awesome Display is the king of CC with Color Spray.

Nicos wrote:
Sorcerer: as the oracle. something that can destroy enemies without rely in his party member. The most direct method posible.

If you want to blast, Sorcerers are a good choice. There are guides around here that should help with that.


Ah, no mention of witch in this? I saw that you were considering save or suck for oracle, and witches are the masters of that with hexes. Thematically appropriate

For a monk, I always want to go to snake style when I have the chance with evil characters. I turns your unarmed strikes into piercing damage, which just brings up the nice image of you stabbing someone. With your first. Ok, fingers probably, but still nice.

On a related note, I also think hamatula strike is an interesting move for evil melee types. It is a feat that works on melee weapons, and allows you to, on a hit, make a grapple check. Succeed, and you IMPALE the target on your weapon, and you both get into a fairly standard grapple after that. Synergizes well with snake style (the feat was originally paired with a similar feat for unarmed strikes, but it is not a prereq) image wise at least. You can still take it for any character though, which is nice.

Grand Lodge

Antipaladin?


If the campaign was going to be an evil campaign and took place in the Underdark, I don't think Antipaladin would be a good choice; it would most likely be evil vs evil, so Smite Good would be worthless.

You could also take a look at Sandman or Dervish Dancer for Bard. Sandman is more sneaky (and gets slow progression sneak attack and bonuses to sneaky skills), can steal spells from other casters, and gets a no HD limit sleep effect like the Witch. Dervish Dancer just buffs you and gets some cool stuff, though some of it seems cool but would never get used over other options (looking at you Razor's Kiss - why would you use this over Inspire or a scaling Haste that you get earlier >_<).


Sorcerer into Dragon disciple, shadow/umbral dragon bloodline?

Bard: Sandman bard, steal spells booyah.

Magus. Dont go dex based.

20 pt buy with a Drow:

Str 14 Dex 14 Con 12 int 16 wis 8 cha 12 after racial

Dont go kensai. Go Skirnir (shield magus) and use a scorpion whip.

eventually at higher levels a normal whip plenty of reach and a shield with which to bash and spell combat will be quite handy.

If spell combat is a must at lower levels go bladebound.

Hexcrafter could be amusing as well.

I would take the parklands stalker racial trait, your dex would give you nimble moves as a bonus feat.

IF cavalier is your fancy, the ARG has a riding gecko in it specifically under the Drow heading.

IF you want to get funky with a fighter, take mobile fighter archetype,
Str 13 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 13 wis 14 ch 11
Use two weapon fighting
take darklands stalker with nimble moves as your bonus feat
you will want dodge and mobility and combat expertise combat reflexes and improved unarmed strike ( a dip into monk might be helpful)
get panther style and panther claw (possibly panther parry)

The end effect will be at 11th level you will be close to full attacking while moving, and causing AoOs (which you will be harder to be hit by) while answering back with even more attacks and will be able to run all over difficult terrain at a full move.

A very nasty full attacking, mobile, AoO master.

1st level fighter : Dodge, nimble moves (free) mobility
2nd level fighter: Two weapon fighting
3rd level monk :agile moves, combat reflexes, improved unarmed strike
4th level fighter: Panther style and bump wis to 15
5th level fighter: Panther Claw
6th level fighter: Panther parry, combat expertise.

there are a lot of options to this build, no armored no shield, (no need for TWF because of flurry) fighting with temple swords
Or an armored (take advantage of armor training the fighter gets) shielded TWF, maybe fighting with a longsword or rapier
Feats could also be taken in slightly different order with a 2nd level of monk, if you werent going to wear any armor you might get more mileage out of evasion too.

either way you are all over the place causing all sorts of damage and tons of attacks. at 8th level Id probably bump my str to 14.


For ranger, how about a natural attack style? As a drow in a presumably evil campaign, you can even take that one trait that gives you a weak bite attack since you can worship Lamashtu . Normally I would not recommend a 1d2 secondary natural attack, but since we are talking about ranger, and weak attacks are made favorable in the system by bonuses to damage, such as sneak attack or the Ranger's favored enemy feature. So it depends on how easily you can get groups of enemies with one type for favored enemy. Favored enemy: Humanoid (drow) might not be a bad idea... especially for infighting.

With aspect of the beast at level 2, you can even take multiattack at level 3. This makes your bite more functional, and it allows you to more effectively mix in a manufactured weapon in. With a one handed weapon, you have one claw and a bite along with the weapon's iteratives, which can net you up to 6 attacks at level 20, which is comparable to TWF. The weapon attack would never get any penalties while the natural attacks would only get a -2 penalty after multi attack.

Hunter's bond would be problematic though. You either bond with an animal, or with your team mates. Both sound a bit hard for selfish evil characters. Spirit rangers can trade this in for a bond with spirits, which can give you 1 spontaneously cast spell per 4 levels per day, as well as Augury once per day. You just have to say that they are not particularly nice spirits of nature though. It is the underdark after all. All take and no give, sounds like a good deal.

Grand Lodge

Too bad about Druid.

A Cave Druid, with the Darkness Domain would be perfect.

Is this Golarion, or another Campaign Setting?


Hexcrafter magus is also nice since they both gain the standard Magus features as well as the ability to use witch's hexes. Powerful combination obviously.

Besides the standard use of Save of Suck hexes, you also get more incentive to use the prehensile hair hex since magus actually has a half decent BAB and using your casting stat for hit and damage at a range of 10 feet is awesome, especially when you have the armor and health to make it better when something gets in close. It would not interfere with a normal weapon routine, although you'd obviously take a -5 penalty to the natural attack. It would still be worth it though.

Even alone, a hecrafter actually has enough tricks to get in three attacks with a natural attack though (spell combat, spell strike, and haste arcana), so depending on your starting level, I might actually suggest going with hair as your sole weapon. Since it would be your only natural attack, you actually would be doing 1.5 INT damage on your attacks, so it might be a good deal if you do not want to go the dervish dance/agile weapon route.


Thanks you all for the input. Let see the suggestions so far

Bard: Danwflower dervish do not really fit, afther all I will be an evil drwo in an underdark campain.
the arcane duelist is a good choise, the dervish dancer is good too. May be I could go str based and use a longsword with two hands.

Cavalier: The gecko idea sadly do not work since the gecko is too small. looking at the beast rider I do not see anything that suggest underdark in it.

Fighter/Monk: definitely I would go sohei/unarmed fighter two handing a temple sword, but only as a last resort if I do not go with another class.

Ranger: I prefer to use slashing manufactered weapons. It is the spirit ranger the only good choise to trade animal companion?

Magus: I prefer to use salshing weapons so no skirnir with whips. How effective is a stregh based magus? don´tthey have like a really low AC?

Oracle: heaves seems like and odd choise, this is a guy who has spended almost all his life without seen the sky.


Cavern sniper from the advanced race guide. Maximun flavor.


Archaeologist Bard perhaps? He has self-buffing ability and can be made into a decent fighter, especially if he picks rogue talents that grant additional combat feats.


For the ranger, besides the vanilla ranger's choice of bonding with allies (which you will do right before backstabbing them no?), the other archetypes have various helpful but similarly "socially constructive" choices. You can see for yourself by seeing which archetypes replace hunter's bond. I suggested spirit ranger since you can play it as you preferring to talk to the voices only you hear instead of other people.

About a heaven's oracle: I remember seeing this one weird fantasy setting. A webcomic, so take it with a grain of salt, that tried to mix fantasy into a contemporary setting. The drow had little changed thematically though. The important part was that despite the fact that they had been banished to the underdark for thousands of years and no one had seen the sky, the drow had meticulously kept track of the movements of the stars through the use of highly accurate clocks and astrological data. This served two purposes: it was used in the deeply held belief in astrology and its influence on the individual, and it helped to highlight the deep wounds of their banishment through their obsession with the sky. Just an interesting thought. Even if they do not have access to the sky, there can be various practices revolving around it. An oracle might even be more important for this practice since they would be the ones with such vital information stuffed into their heads by otherworldly beings. The Star chart revelation would be thematically appropriate in this vein.

Also, since we are talking about an evil campaign, you can always have the oracle influenced the the Great Old Ones and the Outer Gods. They are the things that lay beyond the stars after all. You could easily base a cult around that. The underdark has always seemed the place for H.P. Lovecraft inspired creatures. Dweller in the darkness revelation seems like a prime example, since it is Phantasmal Killer using some terrible monster not of this world.


Gnoll Coward wrote:
Nicos wrote:


Monk: maybe a sohei with a dip into unarmed fighter for the style feat and the proficiency in the temple sword.
Monks are proficient with the temple sword.

My bad ^^


Nicos wrote:
Gnoll Coward wrote:
Nicos wrote:


Monk: maybe a sohei with a dip into unarmed fighter for the style feat and the proficiency in the temple sword.
Monks are proficient with the temple sword.
My bad ^^

Mine actually, I think you were correct. Sohei gets all martial and simple weapons. I assume this replaces the standard monk weapon proficiencies. Temple sword is exotic.


Gnoll Coward wrote:
Nicos wrote:
Gnoll Coward wrote:
Nicos wrote:


Monk: maybe a sohei with a dip into unarmed fighter for the style feat and the proficiency in the temple sword.
Monks are proficient with the temple sword.
My bad ^^
Mine actually, I think you were correct. Sohei gets all martial and simple weapons. I assume this replaces the standard monk weapon proficiencies. Temple sword is exotic.

u.u

Grand Lodge

There is a trait that gives you proficiency with one Monk weapon.


Hmmm... I realized that we do not know much about where you are starting off and how far your campaign will go. So I might as well suggest this: The Paintaster PrC might be an interesting choice if you get far enough.

They immediately get a routine that for a starting cost of 2,000 GP, they can increase a stat of their choice by +2. It takes an hour a day, but no cost after that first investment. You can change the stat you want to boost by paying another 2,000. Later, you can get another +2 to throw around, either into another stat or making one +4, but it does not increase the time needed for the practice routine. At second level they get a type of sneak attack that applies only to slashing weapons, and I think that this "cruelty" damage might also apply to whips at all times. The Paintaster PrC also gets DR.

Short class over all, with only 5 levels, but it might be an interesting option. I suggest it since it is a PrC largely only found in Drow societies.

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