I checked on ebay, and I found that Elves, Gnomes, Halflings, and Dwarves of Golarion books are quite hard to find. The Elves books was freakishly priced at over a hundred bucks, and the Dwarves book simply is not to be found.
Where the heck do I get these booklets at a more reasonable price? I already have the aasimar, tiefling, orc, and goblin books. I read the humans booklet kinda sucks, and besides I am using a different campaign setting than the standard Golarion stuff (3.5's Forgotten Realms).
Also, why hasn't Paizo simply created a splatbook of the racial booklets? I already have the Advanced Race Guide, and that info is different from the booklets.
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They do give the option to purchase the pdf form of the books at a cheaper price and then you can print the booklets out from your printer. Saves them money, saves you money.
Moreover, its the concept of supply and demand. They are at the start of the cycle. They have to determine how much to supply so that they do not lose their gains. If they overshoot their expectations, it might set up where they have 2000 copies of Biclops and no buyers. That or a single unit of the Lisa Simpson Doll.
The ARG is just a General Resource. The X of Golarion books are setting specific.
Most of the Fluff is on pathfinderwiki.com.
Most of the Crunch can be found on d20pfsrd.com.
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A collection in a "Races of Golarion" or "Humanoids of Golarion" might be interesting.
I checked on ebay, and I found that Elves, Gnomes, Halflings, and Dwarves of Golarion books are quite hard to find. The Elves books was freakishly priced at over a hundred bucks, and the Dwarves book simply is not to be found.
Where the heck do I get these booklets at a more reasonable price?
Amazon.com has 16 copies of Halflings of Golarion left, for $9.35. Link.
Noble Knight Games (nobleknight.com) has Gnomes of Golarion for $8.50 and Halflings of Golarion in mint for $9.95 and in Very Good + for $8.00
And paizo.com itself still sells Halflings of Golarion for $10.99.
For Elves and Dwarves, though, yes, you may have to settle for the PDF, unless you're prepared to pay $23 or more.
Overpowered options? like what? I have the orcs book, and I didn't see anything too bad, especially considering orcs are underpowered as a race.
The problem with hunting down the material just to read online is that its scattered about, and I can't read all of it.
Well, it looks like I can go after some pdfs then. I am basically interested in the crunch more than anything.
As for the Golarion books being setting specific, I haven't really found that to be the case with the ones I have. Same sort of flavor they had in the older 3.5 stuff.
The Golarion Books expand on the Races as they are in Golarion. ARG just gives general information.
There are some overpowered options though they are rare and build specific.
The orc sorcerer bloodline is a standard for blaster sorcs. But those characters aren't actually orcs. In fact, most of the time, their race is munchkin.
Never heard of that before. As a race, they are very underpowered. Ever looked at their racial adjustments? They don't even get the +2 to Intimidate that a half orc does. They have a net -2 to their attributes, a crappy weapon proficiency or two, the Orc language (big whoop), Darkvision 60', and that ability to remain conscious while in negative hp, but are staggered. Oh, and they are dazzled by bright light.
If anything, Orcs are UNDERpowered, not munchkin. So are Goblins, but not quite as badly. I have no trouble with them having a few feats that are slightly more potent. Besides, its not like orcs could ever approach what the aasimar and tiefling books do!
I dunno. I shall keep a watch out for the elf, dwarf, halfling, and gnome books. I have my reservations about how valuable the elf book is, though. Might skip that one.
What he meant was they choose a Race to Munchkin the Class.
Munchkin a class? What, like taking the elemental fire sorcerer bloodline and maxing out one's Charisma?
The only race I know of likely to be used by PC's that could be munchkin are tieflings and aasimar, especially with those race booklets.
No, what he is saying is that the Orc Bloodline for Sorcerers is highly overpowered for a Blaster Sorcerer & almost never is found on an Orc Sorcerer character.
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Yeah, something like a crossblooded orc/draconic tattooed sorcerer with spell specialization. That's +3 CL and +2 damage per die on blasting spells. Picture a level 4 sorcerer doing 8d6+16 damage from a single casting of Scorching Ray, or a level 6 tossing a 9d6+18 fireball.
The PC's race doesn't matter, but it's an option used to make overpowered characters that comes from the Orc book.
That's because Orcs have a penalty to Charisma. Realistically, they should never have been given a Sorcerer bloodline in the first place. Sounds like it was made for Half Orcs, which is one of the more boring ideas for a race in the game, along with Half Elves.
I dunno, I compare that to a Invoker Wizard with all the Spell Penetration etc feats, doesn't seem a lot different. Plus, the Orc bloodline has some crappy bonuses, like Strength for a frickin' Sorcerer?! Get real. Any Sorcerer that actually wants to go toe to toe with a beastie in every combat is not going to live for long. They don't have the BAB, or the hp to pull it off. Or even the AC. You have to spend a lot of feats just to get to wear armor.
Oh, I don't know about them being a boring race. We've got a half-orc wizard/barbarian locally in Society play that's a lot of fun. His first level was as wizard and his bonded object was a greataxe. Now he's running around casting enlarge person on himself and wreaking all kinds of havoc.
They just don't feel enough like an orc or much different from a standard human. Only real difference imo is the darkvision. But then, I feel the same way about half elves, too.
I don't like Enlarge Person. All you end up with is +1 to melee damage, since the Strength bonus and size penalty cancel each other out.
They just don't feel enough like an orc or much different from a standard human. Only real difference imo is the darkvision. But then, I feel the same way about half elves, too.
I don't like Enlarge Person. All you end up with is +1 to melee damage, since the Strength bonus and size penalty cancel each other out.
Eh, all depends on how the character is played, I guess.
As for enlarge person, don't forget that the damage dice on the weapon wielded also go up.
Tell that to my Enlarged Fighter wielding a +2 Impact Earthbreaker. (It deals damage as a Huge Earthbreaker.)
EDIT: Pseudo-Ninja'd
Damage dice go up, but on average that's only a point better of damage. A d8 upped to d10 only means 1 more point on average, not two.
Oh well. I suppose it's nice to goof off with. Still, I would rather have straight up Orcs getting better stuff. Maybe a +4 to Intimidate, since a full Orc is a lot more scary than a simple half Orc! And given they only get a -2 net to their Attributes, I'd give them the Endurance feat for free as well.
I have a Homebrewed Civilized Orc Race.
They get +2STR, +2WIS, -2CHA. Lose the Light Weakness. & Gain Skill Bonuses to Intimidate.
Hmm. Based on the descriptions of Orcs as a race, I wouldn't give them a bonus to Wisdom, but I do think that perhaps a +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom would work well. The Orcs booklet talks about their endurance for pain a lot, as well as their short fuses (poor Will saves).
The light weakness kinda makes sense, since they are based off Tolkein's orcs, as is much of the game.
I like the Darkvision and perhaps a +4 to Intimidate, but they really don't refer to a lot of native skill bonuses or features much. Maybe the solution would be to give them two extra traits from the Orc or half Orc sections?
This is a separate sub-race....
It is more for PC use rather than NPC and those Stat Mods just make the Orc even more Power Gaming.
I was using the ARG Race Builder as the Basis for the changes I made.
I think I made them into a 11 or 12 RP Race.
Including a Bite to reflect their Tusks being larger do to being Herbivores rather than opportunistic eaters like their Savage Brethren.
Do you have the full race build available? Sounds interesting.
Haven't finished digitizing it.
Basically.
Normal Orc with the following changes.
+2STR, +2WIS, -2CHA instead of +4STR, -2 INT/WIS/CHA
A Bite Attack (I think 1d3)
Bonus to Intimidate. The same bonus Half-Orcs get IIRC.
Loses Light Blindness/Sensitivity.
VEGETARIAN ORCS?! Are you bonkers? What do they do, fart at their opponents mercilessly until they surrender?!
whoa....brain is frying....
You do realize that Tusks are an Herbivore trait right? Fangs are the Carnivore equivalent.
Also you wouldn't want to read Dominic Deegan. Though I was glad I wasn't the only one who thought of Herbivore Orcs.
You do realize that Tusks are an Herbivore trait right? Fangs are the Carnivore equivalent.
Sabertooth Tiger.
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Haven't finished digitizing it.
Basically.
Normal Orc with the following changes.
+2STR, +2WIS, -2CHA instead of +4STR, -2 INT/WIS/CHA
A Bite Attack (I think 1d3)
Bonus to Intimidate. The same bonus Half-Orcs get IIRC.
Loses Light Blindness/Sensitivity.
Sounds sensible. Since 'Wisdom' as a mechanical game stat generally just means 'keen senses and bull-headed/strong willed' and not 'wise' as we tend to think if it, a Wisdom bonus fits Orcs pretty well.
I tend to frown at Charisma penalties, since they feel munchkinish to me. Orcs, as I see them, have *no* problems at all with self-image or expressing themselves or asserting their personalities. (I could see a Half Orc, feeling like an outsider with no culture of its own, having a Charisma penalty, or a race that perceives itself as an underdog, such as Kobolds.)
An Intelligence penalty would better fit the nature of the race / culture, I think.
I definitely love the idea of the bite attack. A ton of fantasy races have awesome teeth, like Orcs, Goblins, Kobolds, Ogres, Gnolls, etc. and definitely could benefit from a bite attack.
@Piccolo: You are proving my point. A Smilodon is Fanged not Tusked.
@Set: The idea behind the penalty is they are more Isolationist, tend to be gruff, not up to the Human/Elf Manner Code, and generally seem savage compared to the other races but no where near the "Savage" Orcs.
Dunno hombre, those look EXACTLY like tusks to me. Call them what you will, they do the same damn thing: murder prey easily.
Charisma is also the "pretty factor". Personally I think a negative Cha bonus should be applied to INCREASING Intimidate instead of lessening it. Or at least allow Strength to be applied to Intimidation instead of Charisma, without having to use up a feat.
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Charisma is also the "pretty factor". Personally I think a negative Cha bonus should be applied to INCREASING Intimidate instead of lessening it. Or at least allow Strength to be applied to Intimidation instead of Charisma, without having to use up a feat.
Charisma has nothing to do with physical appearance. It is based on the character's ability to project their personality. How does it apply to Intimidate? Imagine being in a room with your favourite high-profile celebrity pop star / politician / business mogul / what-have-you. They are in the room exuding charisma and have captured everyone's attention. Now imagine that celebrity is pissed off. They ignore everyone else and concentrate their wrath on you. That twisted, sinking feeling in your gut? That's Intimidate.
@The_Diplomat: What skill opposes Intimidate? As I think I would need every Feat, Rank, and bonus for that skill. Especially since I was in a situation like that and just got in the Celeb's Face and said "So?" to this day he runs away from me.
@The_Diplomat: What skill opposes Intimidate? As I think I would need every Feat, Rank, and bonus for that skill. Especially since I was in a situation like that and just got in the Celeb's Face and said "So?" to this day he runs away from me.
The only skill that opposes Intimidate is Sense Motive. Sounds to me more like you made your Will save, mate.
I can see Sense Motive... I am normally able to detect a Face-To-Face Bluff. Though I might only have moderate Diplomacy...
Gotta Love being a Fighter/Cavalier/Ranger Triple Gestalt in Real-Life...
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@The_Diplomat: What skill opposes Intimidate? As I think I would need every Feat, Rank, and bonus for that skill. Especially since I was in a situation like that and just got in the Celeb's Face and said "So?" to this day he runs away from me.
According to Core Rulebook p99, Intimidate is opposed by a DC of 10 + HD + WIS modifier. There is no opposing skill check or save. If used in combat and the Intimidate check makes the DC, the target is shaken for one round. For every 5 points the check exceeds the DC by, the target is shaken for an additional round.
My Half-Orc Inquisitor has Intimidate maxed out and uses this feature a lot.
Unfortunately, Charisma is THE social manipulation stat in Pathfinder. As such, it tends to represent what White Wolf used to split into Appearance, Manipulation, and Charisma.
What do you think reaction checks are supposed to represent? Check out Diplomacy and NPC reaction checks if you don't believe me. It's basically a generalized social attribute. Thus, it HAS to represent a PC's "pretty".
Also, at this point you are getting a mite picky over the definition. Either way, they are long, pointy protrusions representing extended teeth, and they are quite lethal. Same difference.
Heck, I always had a problem with Wisdom being named just that. It has nothing to DO with being wise, dammit! Wisdom in Pathfinder/D&D has everything to do with willpower and senses. That's it.
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Wisdom is about prudence and affective maturity. It effects perception because perception isn't just about your ability to notice things, but also about your ability to judge whether something is worth noticing or not. And it effects Will saves because your affective maturity is a factor in being able to withstand mental assault.
Anyway, game abilities aren't supposed to be a direct correlation to real life - they are supposed to make a game that is fun to play. And I think we've gone way of thread with this discussion.
True that.
That in mind, we already have Aasimar, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Goblins, Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Halflings, Humans, and Teiflings. We know we're gonna get Kobolds. These are all part of the Player Companion line. What do you guys think would be other races to tackle as part of said line?
For obvious reasons, I would be interested in Hobs & Bugbears but what do you guys think?
More I think about it, Changelings are also on my list of ones I would like to see, but then I get started & realize the Vanara & Charau-Ka also interest me.
Well, I'm kinda interested in Dhampirs, but there was a sort of book put out for them that amounted to purely fluff. I bought it, just out of interest. Would prefer a whole racial book.
Ratfolk society sounds interesting, and I like Hobgoblins if only for their stats.
But the one standout race I saw was Gillmen. That whole bit surrounding their creation, that really perked my interest. So did Wayangs with their supposedly odd philosophy, as I am interested in magic that varies in strength based on the amount of light in the area (actual Shadow magic as presented in the old 2nd ed stuff).
As for Wisdom, that would imply one's senses actually improve as we get older, and that simply is not the case. It's the exact opposite. Our hearing, eyesight, etc degenerates slowly.