My next pfs character is going to be a switch hitting ranger. When not using a bow, he will be using either a great sword or a Guisarme. With his dex mod and breastplate, his current ac is 19. Is this considered good for a first level melee character who generally uses a reach weapon?
I am temped to get a quick draw shield, but I am not sure if the extra ac is worth giving up damage or reach.
Check out the monster creation chart here.
1. Compare your AC to the low and high attacks of monsters in relation to your level.
2. Figure out how often you find being hit is reasonable.
3. Deduce your desired AC!
Note: It is easy to get a much higher AC than is fun (as in, a nearly unhittable one) at lower levels.
Excellent AC is generally considered level+20. Extremely good AC is level +23 or more. Fair AC is 18+level. poor to average AC is 15+level or lower.
Level can mean your level or the level of your foe. A CR 25 encounter, the highest you should ever face in the game, fairly demands a 45 AC, and you'll need 48 or higher to have a truly good AC against that powerful a threat (likely a unique dragon).
==Aelryinth
I hope to mainly use my reach weapon, so hopefully a 19 will be good enough. I still might get a shield and one handed weapon for times I am the only front liner. I just wasn't sure if 1 ac will make a big difference. Hopefully I will have good back up though...but pathfinders rarely have good luck.
I agree with Whale. 20+character level makes for a pretty decent tank.
Well after getting a mighty bow, cloak of resistance, and upgraded weapons, I plan on picking up ac improving items. at high levels, I would like mithril heavy armor, but it looks extremely expensive.
I have a sneaky feeling my low will save will cause me more grief though.
at high levels, I would like mithril heavy armor, but it looks extremely expensive.
Do note that unless you have heavy armor proficiency on your ranger for some reason, being made out of mithral does not make it count as medium in regards to proficiency. Not sure if it would mess with your combat style feats, but it at least causes a few problems.
Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations... This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty on all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving.
I generally set a target number of CR=APL+1 high attack +11, not including shield. So that theoretically a typical encounter has a 50% chance to hit with its best attack.
AC is basically a fools game after a certain point. Early game its an important part of how high BAB classes survive at all. But after you've reached a certain point where nothing can hit you...then nothing tries to hit you. There are other threats on the battle field too. You aren't a very good "tank" if nothing focuses on you because you're too hard to hit. To make matters worse at high levels, creatures don't care so much about you're AC anymore. The grim reaper has a death scythe and most of his feats are basically I-can-slice-and-dice feats and yet he's a chump every round he swings it. Balors don't start combat by swinging swords. They start combat by summoning a Vrolikai and then spamming dominate monster and greater dispel and other awesome abilities. He only uses his vorpal sword on you after the Vrolikai has used Mass Hold Monster on you or after he's uses power word stun or after his other balor buddy has used blasphemy on you.
I think the best way to put it is "High enough so you aren't hit often, but low enough that the GM thinks he can hit you if only he tries hard enough".
20+your level or thereabouts sounds reasonable.
Up to about 10th, AC is pretty damned useful. However figuring out what is a good one isn't that simple. The 20+ level is probably a bit on the low side(good to start, but will drop off really fast since things get better at hitting faster than their CR goes up). I think for a middling AC you should be shooting for making it around a 11 on the enemy die for the hit to land. This is around 50% mitigation. You can do this by checking things your CR (and up to CR+2) to get a picture of where you stand. This is if you aren't really trying to do AC. If you are, shoot for a 16+ to hit you. This can get pretty expensive towards the higher levels.
At level 10, a high to hit for a CR 10 monster is 18, low at 13. A level 10 fighter can easily hit a 31 AC without dumping every feat and red cent into buffing it (this is also before AC buffs from the party). A 31 AC means that the high to hit monsters will have to roll a 13 or better to hit. Or should it about 40% of the time, a low to-hit monster will have to roll an 18 or better, to hit or only a 15% chance to hit. I would consider this to be a good AC, not great but good. Anything much higher and the DM will start to focus on hitting you and things may get out of hand quick. Much lower and a full attack from a CR 12 monster will put in a bad spot.
That said there are other considerations other than AC for survivability. A 35+ AC is completely doable by level 10, but that doesn't help you any when you have to roll a 15 or better to make your will saves. If the monster can't hit your AC, your companions might have some trouble if you become dominated and start murdering them instead.
what are some of more cost effective ways to increase ac? ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, heavy armor?
The most cost effective is to use all possible slots to improve AC. Its better to have cheaper items in every slot than one expensive item.
a good ac is when the dm has to roll a 20, maybe a 19.
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Cost effective armor class buying in order (assuming upgrading is possible and assuming you've saturated your dex bonus, depends on if you're a fighter or not):
+1 armor
+1 shield
+1 ring of protection
+1 amulet of natural armor
+2 armor
+2 shield
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone
+3 armor
+3 shield
+2 ring of protection
+2 amulet of natural armor
+4 armor
+4 shield
+5 armor
+5 shield
+3 ring of protection
+3 amulet of natural armor
I like to take away the static +10 to ac for my PCs and give it to my mobs to hit. Players roll their ac and on a natural 20 they get a riposte attack, and suffer a crit on a 1 ( no confirmation). This keeps things lively.
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So, from what I read here it looks like most people consider level+20 as a good, but not the best ac per level. I was curious, where is this number coming from? I'm thinking my character needs higher ac and was wondering on the method to determine this is what number to shoot for to end up with a decent armor class at my level (level 9).
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@Malith: take a look at this. The advice of some people is to take the High Attack and add 11 to it to get your start-of-reasonable AC; that's the AC you need to be hit around 50% of the time.
Personally I'd go a bit higher than that. The listed number is the "normal" number, but some monsters deviate significantly from it, like Orcs at CR 1/3. High Attack + 16 may be a better number. That should mean you're hit only 25% of the time on a normal monster's good attacks.
If you think "why, that sounds like a lot of getting hit!", it is; it's a political move to keep the GM happy. Many GMs get a bit frustrated if they can never hit. If they only hit 1 in 4 times you can claim with a straight face that you're not OP well-protected or anything, but you're usually still standing after a fight.
methinks people have been playing wizards too much when I see all these comments about 'if it needs a nat 20 to hit you, you have enough ac'
Unless the monster does enough damage to kill you from full health in one or two shots, then a 50% or better miss chance should be enough I would think. And if it is, your party should be retreating, not fighting. Or you need to not be dumping Con. And that 50% is on the monster's best attack, meaning all its other attacks will be even worse off to hit.
Stop thinking like a casty and realize that "less than 100% negation" does not equal "opponent succeeds every time"
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I whipped up a table to reference, personally. It factors in high/low attacks & DCs and such based on the rules for custom monster building.
You can check it out HERE.
DISCLAIMER: it's not intended for a single character to meet the listed values in every column for their level. If you can, great.. congrats. But it's more for identifying where you could improve upon.