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Ok, here is an idea:
Within Pathfinder Society, I am able to deal Colossal Damage to an enemy.
I am aware that there are some Current State/Revised by Jason Nelson issue with how large a weapon a person can carry, so I will go by how it is written because the FAQ has not impletmented Jason's intention.
Starting out with a Titan Mauler (Mainly for decreased size penalty), the barbarian is currently carring a Large Bastard Sword.
Large Damage.
The Barbarian drinks a Potion of Enlarge Person.
Large Damage goes to Huge Damage.
The barbarian decides to enchant the weapon to a +1 Impact Large Bastard Sword.
Huge Damage goes to Gargantuan Damage.
Then the barbarian decides to purchase a Belt of Thunderous Charging.
The belt magnifies the wearer's momentum whenever she charges, granting a +2 to Bull Rush and Overrun maneuvers. Furthermore, when the wearer makes a charge attack, her Melee Weapons and Natural Weapons deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are.
When on the charge, Gargantuan Damage to Colossal Damage.
Taking the damage information from a srd site, here is what we get:
Bastard Sword Damage
Medium - 1d10
Large - 2d8
Huge - 3d8
Gargantuan - 4d8
Colossal - 6d8
The main cap in not obtaining this earlier is the enchant to the weapon, which is basically a +3 (16,000 gp). If a person perfects all their missions and faction missions, it takes 31 Fame to reach past the cap. 31 Fame divide by 6(2 Fame per mission x 3 Exp per Level) results in 5 Levels and 1 Mission, so the person has to be 6th level and a Mission at minimum, to recieve the +3 enchant.
Ideas, opinions, comments are encouraged.
Impact property and Belt of Thunderous Charging don't stack, because they both cause the weapon to be treated as one size bigger than it actually is, without actually changing the weapon size. So, your large Bastard Sword (that is currently Huge due to the potion) is treated as Gargantuan because of the impact property, but doesn't actually become gargantuan. Then when you charge with it, the belt causes it to be treated as one size larger than it actually is. One size larger than Huge is still gargantuan, even if the weapon is already treated as gargantuan.
Edit: blasted ninjas
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Yeah, this was an idea that was out there. Clarification of the belt/enchant was nice. Thanks.
As for the testubo, it is alread a 2-handed weapon at the start, so a Large Testubo is out because it would technically require 4 hands to carry it. Moreover, if enchant the Impact, it only applies to Slashing and Piercing weaponry, much like Keen.
Can I say first, that the extra damage you get from using a large Bastard Sword is almost certainly not worth the -2 penalty to hit that results from it?
Stacking up weapon size is probably one of the weakest ways to get more damage--the actual dice your roll are an insignificant part of your total damage by midlevel.
Can I say first, that the extra damage you get from using a large Bastard Sword is almost certainly not worth the -2 penalty to hit that results from it?
Stacking up weapon size is probably one of the weakest ways to get more damage--the actual dice your roll are an insignificant part of your total damage by midlevel.
And the damage dice continue to dwindle even moreso after the fact, unfortunately. That's why you don't see CR 20 T-Rexes; they'd all be obsolete and ultimately dead before they can even reach that CR. It's also the reason why Blaster Casters are garbage at around the same level; their damage dice has a limit, and while they can enhance that limit, that too has a limit which becomes obsolete, whether by spell level and Save DCs, or by lack of dice (and above-average dice results).
While it's a neat flavor thing (plus fairly powerful in the lower levels) and it is one that I would enjoy over the whole "Sweet, I hit, I deal X damage and now the guy is dead," the results are what's really important, and quite frankly the damage dice prove inferior as it cannot scale to a similar (or even superior) level compared to that of static bonuses.
Anyway; as others have mentioned, the Impact weapon property and the Belt effect does not stack. You could obtain an item or have a party caster provide you with a Giant Form (or similar) spell and put you at a Large/Huge size base, and then you could apply Enlarge Person as well as the Impact weapon, and you'll be sitting at Gargantuan/Colossal for a good period of time. (On an optimization note, why not just have a Belt of Physical Superiority?)
Of course, that's assuming you want to go that route. I personally wouldn't recommend it. It'd be a cool flavor thing, and probably fun to roll all those dice, but in the end, you're not going to be better than that puny Medium-sized guy who's beating you out with his "+30 Damage/Swing" compared to your "+12 Damage/Swing", even if you roll really good (or maximum damage, both of which are quite unlikely).
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That is where the barbarian comes in. Seeing that most likely that the barbarian would stack thier Strength to have a really high modifier, in comes into effect when the damage is set as a 2-Handed weapon, which the Large Bastard Sword is. Taking Feats like Power Attack, Barbarian raging to increase the Strength Modifier to much higher levels, all can attribute to the static damage that is applied afterwards.
Lets take a 20 Str Barbarian for example.
A +4 Belt of Giant Strength replaces the Belt of Furious Charging, increasing the Current Strength to 24.
The barbarian rages at level 6, increasing the Strenth to 28, which is a +9 Modifier. The +9 is then multiplied (rounded down) with a 2-Handed weapon, the Large Bastard Sword. The result is 9*1.5=13.5, round down to 13.
The weapon is already magically effected with a +1 bonus, so the state damage is now 14.
Add Power Attack, which is now, -2/+4(*1.5 due to 2-handed), so the power attack is an extra +6, resulting in a static +20 Damage.
So with rage, power attack, the first swing is a 4d8+20. And remember the person is Class level 6, so that second swing will be a 4d8+20. And all this is without extra circumstances, like a bard, other feats or traits.
...It'd be a cool flavor thing, and probably fun to roll all those dice, but in the end, you're not going to be better than that puny Medium-sized guy who's beating you out with his "+30 Damage/Swing" compared to your "+12 Damage/Swing", even if you roll really good (or maximum damage,...
Which I consider a pretty big flaw in game design, by the way. Getting hit by a freaking GARGANTUAN bastard sword should MESS. YOU. UP. Like, get-out-the-dental-records-and-DNA-testing-kits-to-identify-you kind of mess you up. If we assume that a weapon doubles in weight, as given in the CRB (pg 143), that gives us a 48 lb sharpened piece of magically enchanted steel (effectively) making a solid enough impact to cause slashing damage. That's game over, man. If a medium fighter with medium weapons can out do that then that's the game designers' bad. But that's just my own opinion. If I REALLY had game design figured out so well, I'd be writing for Paizo.
While it's solid damage, it also makes you vulnerable to hit, and very unlikely for you to hit as well; even with your high strength, your power attack penalties and your size increases reduce what bonus you get from enchantments and class features, meaning you're going to be hitting significantly less.
In addition, if you want to prevent getting hit (commonly with Dazing Assault), you're going to have to take even bigger penalties to hit, and when you face that guy with huge AC and CMD, you'll take the whole entire building you're in down sooner than you would hit and kill that guy; and that's assuming he just stands there picking his nose.
...It'd be a cool flavor thing, and probably fun to roll all those dice, but in the end, you're not going to be better than that puny Medium-sized guy who's beating you out with his "+30 Damage/Swing" compared to your "+12 Damage/Swing", even if you roll really good (or maximum damage,...Which I consider a pretty big flaw in game design, by the way. Getting hit by a freaking GARGANTUAN bastard sword should MESS. YOU. UP. Like, get-out-the-dental-records-and-DNA-testing-kits-to-identify-you kind of mess you up. If we assume that a weapon doubles in weight, as given in the CRB (pg 143), that gives us a 48 lb sharpened piece of magically enchanted steel (effectively) making a solid enough impact to cause slashing damage. That's game over, man. If a medium fighter with medium weapons can out do that then that's the game designers' bad. But that's just my own opinion. If I REALLY had game design figured out so well, I'd be writing for Paizo.
I do agree from a realistic physical perspective; huge sword cleaving building in half = tin can humanoid becomes small blood droplet. The issue is that the scale for damage dice is significantly limited and difficult to breach, whereas static bonuses not so much. And since the static bonuses have a higher limit than the damage dice, and also do not vary from roll to roll, the choice is clear.
Unfortunately, the numbers don't always fall in line with the concepts of real life (or even an adequate semblance of real life). Of course, this game is supposed to be a fantasy world, where puny humans are actually capable of defeating huge giants.
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While it's solid damage, it also makes you vulnerable to hit, and very unlikely for you to hit as well; even with your high strength, your power attack penalties and your size increases reduce what bonus you get from enchantments and class features, meaning you're going to be hitting significantly less.
In addition, if you want to prevent getting hit (commonly with Dazing Assault), you're going to have to take even bigger penalties to hit, and when you face that guy with huge AC and CMD, you'll take the whole entire building you're in down sooner than you would hit and kill that guy; and that's assuming he just stands there picking his nose.
Well, if you put in all the calculations, the Titan Mauler only has the penalty to its Attack Modifier with just the Power Attack, which is -2.
Let me explain. At third level, the Titan Mauler recieves Massive Weapons
Simply put, by Level 6, which this is the base of, the Titan Mauler will reduce the Penalty to Attack from Wielding a Large Weapon (-2 for being oversized) to 0.
As for Enlarge Person, let me place the full text, bolding penalties and such:
So with Enlarge Person, the overall benefits and penalties to attributes are the -2 to AC for an increased reach of 10, since the -1 to Attack is counterbalanced by the +2 Strength (a +1 Attack Modifier).
Other than that, you are looking at this:
6 BAB + 1 (+1 Weapon) + 9 STR Mod + 2 (+4 Belt of Giant Strenth) - 1 (Enlarge Person) + 1 (+2 STR Enlarge Person) - 2 (Oversized Weapon) + 2 (Massive Weapons Feat at Level 6) - 2 (Power Attack)
= +16 to Attack #1, +11 to Attack #2
This does not include extra feats and other stuff like Weapon Focus or a Bard singing.
And yes, I know, I know. This is not the most "optimized" build for a Barbarian aiming to do the most damage per round or whatever, but creativity sparks interest. =)
Which I consider a pretty big flaw in game design, by the way. Getting hit by a freaking GARGANTUAN bastard sword should MESS. YOU. UP. Like, get-out-the-dental-records-and-DNA-testing-kits-to-identify-you kind of mess you up. If we assume that a weapon doubles in weight, as given in the CRB (pg 143), that gives us a 48 lb sharpened piece of magically enchanted steel (effectively) making a solid enough impact to cause slashing damage. That's game over, man. If a medium fighter with medium weapons can out do that then that's the game designers' bad. But that's just my own opinion. If I REALLY had game design figured out so well, I'd be writing for Paizo.
Getting hit by a big weapon does mess you up. But getting hit by a smaller weapon repeatedly that's being swung by a stronger guy hurts a lot more overall.
Tieflings have an alternate racial that lets them get the powerful build ability. You give up your spell like ability for it. Pretty nice.
"You have over-sized limbs, allowing you to use Large weapons without penalty."
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Yeah, this was an idea that was out there. Clarification of the belt/enchant was nice. Thanks.
As for the testubo, it is alread a 2-handed weapon at the start, so a Large Testubo is out because it would technically require 4 hands to carry it. Moreover, if enchant the Impact, it only applies to Slashing and Piercing weaponry, much like Keen.
No it's not like Keen at all.
IMPACT
Price +2 bonus; Aura moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Weight —
This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons that are not light weapons. An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger. In addition, any bull rush combat maneuver the wielder attempts while wielding the weapon gains a bonus equal to the weapon's enhancement bonus; this includes all bull rush attempts, not only those in which a weapon is used, such as Bull Rush Strike, Shield Slam, or Unseat.
The only restriction is that the weapon is not light (in earlier versions of this enchantment in DnD it was basically Keen for bludgeoning weapons.
I think they seen the Typo where impact is marked with a 3 not a 4.
Don't you mean Two-Handed Fighter?
I'd like to add a ditto to the vital strike proposition.
This would work, but is also very feat-intensive. You're asking the character to give up at minimum 3 feats (actually, make it 5, for Devastating Strike and its Improved version), which can be better spent with helping that + to hit or other areas they are weak in *cough* Will and Reflex Saves *cough*. After all, if you're dealing that nasty 4D8 per swing, that gives the Bad Guys all the more reason to charm you and use you against your own party, and you're no good when you're incinerated by a giant Fireball.
In addition, the 4D8 can do as much as 32, which is painful, but as low as 4, which is quite weak.
The reason why you shouldn't put all of your emphasis on your damage dice is because the variant results you get from it can lead you to your death.
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Yeah, the "wheeeeeeeeee DICE!" builds usually don't compare to those who stack static damage.
This revelation is one that always seems to depress newer Rogue players.
That's why you do both.
Consider a 10th level Human Ninja with a 22 strength (16 base, +2 race, +1 4th level, +1 8th level, +2 enhancement). He will have 6 feats and 5 Ninja Tricks, one of which can grant him an extra feat, and one of which can give him Weapon Focus for free. At 10th level he can use Greater invisibility by spending a Ki point, so everything is flat footed unless it can see him. So, Exotic Weapon Prof (Tetsubo), Weapon Focus (Tetsubo), Power Attack, Furious Focus, Sap Adept, Sap Master, Bludgeoner, and you have one feat to spare. Your 5d6 sneak attack damage turns into 10d6+20, and with Powerful Sneak your 1's count as 2's for a minimum flat bonus of +40 on every attack, and an average of +58. That's on top of the d10+18 you are dealing just from your weapon (not including enhancement bonus). Of course, all of this is non-lethal so it goes right out the window when fighting undead, elementals and golems, but against anything living it's basically a 1-shot if they are equal challenge rating, and god help them if you crit with that x4 weapon.
There are more feats/abilities that can be combined to make this worse, but in the mid level range it gets pretty broken pretty fast.
Unfortunately, your belt and your weapon property don't stack. If both cause the weapon to deal damage as if it was one size larger, the weapon deals damage as if it was one size larger.
Impact property and Belt of Thunderous Charging don't stack, because they both cause the weapon to be treated as one size bigger than it actually is, without actually changing the weapon size. So, your large Bastard Sword (that is currently Huge due to the potion) is treated as Gargantuan because of the impact property, but doesn't actually become gargantuan. Then when you charge with it, the belt causes it to be treated as one size larger than it actually is. One size larger than Huge is still gargantuan, even if the weapon is already treated as gargantuan.
Edit: blasted ninjas
Where does it say that two different items/enchants do not stack if they give the ability to have a weapon act as one size bigger? To my knowledge, there is no ruling that simply states "If you have two sources of +1 to size increase they do not stack". This is a miscellaneous bonus that does stack with everything if it is not specifically named so.
To re-iterate, please cite your sources.
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My sources are the description of the effect of the spells themselves.
To re-iterate. These spells do NOT increase the ACTUAL size of the weapon (unlike enlarge person). They both do exactly the same thing, that is, cause the weapon to be treated as one size larger than it ACTUALLY is.
If the weapon starts as large and then gets enlarged to huge by enlarge person, it's actually huge.
An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger.
The weapon is not actually made larger. It deals damage as if it were one category larger.
... when the wearer makes a charge attack, her Melee Weapons and Natural Weapons deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are.
The weapons is not actually made larger. It deals damage as if it were one category larger than it actually is.
Now, if both powers didn't make reference to the actual size of the weapon, then they MIGHT stack depending on the wording. If they said something like "increase the damage the weapon does by one step" with no reference to the actual size of the weapon, then they might stack.
EDIT: See also this thread for magical size increases not stacking.
EDIT2: See also this thread for "as if one size category larger" discussion, especially the second post.
My sources are the description of the effect of the spells themselves.
To re-iterate. These spells do NOT increase the ACTUAL size of the weapon (unlike enlarge person). They both do exactly the same thing, that is, cause the weapon to be treated as one size larger than it ACTUALLY is.
If the weapon starts as large and then gets enlarged to huge by enlarge person, it's actually huge.
An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger.The weapon is not actually made larger. It deals damage as if it were one category larger.
... when the wearer makes a charge attack, her Melee Weapons and Natural Weapons deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are.The weapons is not actually made larger. It deals damage as if it were one category larger than it actually is.
Now, if both powers didn't make reference to the actual size of the weapon, then they MIGHT stack depending on the wording. If they said something like "increase the damage the weapon does by one step" with no reference to the actual size of the weapon, then they might stack.
Doing "exactly the same thing" doesn't matter, what matters if is there a rule explicitly stating that size bonuses do not stack. If there is a ruling that you can link (saying that they both virtually increase the size by one is not a ruling), then I'd gladly accept it, if not, then the OP is correct, it would stack and he would gain all of those bonuses.
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Ed-zero, each effect states that the weapon deals damage as if it were one size category larger than it physically is.
So a medium longsword would deal damage as a large longsword under one effect.
And that same medium longsword would deal damage as a large longsword under the other effect.
There is nothing to "stack".
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Ed-zero, each effect states that the weapon deals damage as if it were one size category larger than it physically is.
So a medium longsword would deal damage as a large longsword under one effect.
And that same medium longsword would deal damage as a large longsword under the other effect.
There is nothing to "stack".
Exactly this. Both the belt and the weapon enchant are allowing the Huge weapon to act as though it is Gargantuan. There's nothing to "stack" because both abilities are doing the exact same thing.
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to assist, here are the wordings cited as you requested.
Impact Magic Effect:
This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons that are not light weapons. An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger. In addition, any bull rush combat maneuver the wielder attempts while wielding the weapon gains a bonus equal to the weapon's enhancement bonus; this includes all bull rush attempts, not only those in which a weapon is used, such as Bull Rush Strike, Shield Slam, or Unseat.
Belt of Thunderous Charging:
An engraving of a charging rhinocerous decorates this thick leather belt. The belt grants its wearer a +2 Enhacnement bonus to Strength. Treat this as a Temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the belt is worn.
The belt magnifies the wearer's momentum whenever she charges, granting a +2 to Bull Rush and Overrun maneuvers. Furthermore, when the wearer makes a charge attack, her Melee Weapons and Natural Weapons deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are.
They both treat it as if it is one size larger than it actually is. Its actual size is not change by either effect, so the net result is +1 size higher since they are redundant effects to one another.
to assist, here are the wordings cited as you requested.
Impact Magic Effect:
This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons that are not light weapons. An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger. In addition, any bull rush combat maneuver the wielder attempts while wielding the weapon gains a bonus equal to the weapon's enhancement bonus; this includes all bull rush attempts, not only those in which a weapon is used, such as Bull Rush Strike, Shield Slam, or Unseat.Belt of Thunderous Charging:
An engraving of a charging rhinocerous decorates this thick leather belt. The belt grants its wearer a +2 Enhacnement bonus to Strength. Treat this as a Temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the belt is worn.
The belt magnifies the wearer's momentum whenever she charges, granting a +2 to Bull Rush and Overrun maneuvers. Furthermore, when the wearer makes a charge attack, her Melee Weapons and Natural Weapons deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are.They both treat it as if it is one size larger than it actually is. Its actual size is not change by either effect, so the net result is +1 size higher since they are redundant effects to one another.
While that is a valid interpretation, the opposing view that +1 size and +1 size equals +2 size is equally valid.
The rules does not provide us with anything suggesting which of the interpretations is the correct one.As such it will depend on GM adjudication, unless we get any official word on it.
Where does it say that two different items/enchants do not stack if they give the ability to have a weapon act as one size bigger? To my knowledge, there is no ruling that simply states "If you have two sources of +1 to size increase they do not stack". This is a miscellaneous bonus that does stack with everything if it is not specifically named so.
To re-iterate, please cite your sources.
It is in the details of the rule
From Impact:This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons that are not light weapons. An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger.
From
It is important to note, that "as if the weapon were one size category larger" is not that same as "+1 weapon size".
So if you have 2 things that treat your weapon as it were one size larger, they do not stack. If you had 2 things that increase weapon size by 1, they would stack.
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While that is a valid interpretation, the opposing view that +1 size and +1 size equals +2 size is equally valid.
The rules does not provide us with anything suggesting which of the interpretations is the correct one.
As such it will depend on GM adjudication, unless we get any official word on it.
They're not giving you +1 size and +1 size though. Each one allows you to treat the weapon as one size larger. Both abilities allow you to treat your huge weapon as garagntuan.
If you wanted a rules precedent for size stacking though, you're out of luck again since all references of size stacking spells (like Enlarge Person) state that Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.
I think that we have re-iterated the logic behind non-stacking enough. If someone still doesn't see why they don't stack then it is probably because they want it to stack and are trying to find a way for it to work. They don't stack....move on.
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If you have one apple, and then I increase the number of apples you have to two, how many apples do you have?
What if I then increase the number of apples you have to two? How many apples do you have?
If you have a medium longsword, and I tell you it now functions as though it's one size larger than it really is, it's still a medium longsword. If I give you two items that both cause it to strike as though it's one size larger than it is, all you're doing is increasing the medium longsword by one size.
@ Nefreet, Ssalarn
That is what I've been saying, the size increase is virtual, not physical, and thus stacks with everything, even itself. If it was physical, then I could see it going under the Enlarge Person ruling.
@ Shar Tahl
There's nothing you pointed out that I haven't addressed... I already know the size increase is virtual, that's why it stacks. The size increase is not redundant, it's additive.
@ HaraldKlak
Thank you for at least saying that it is equally valid, I appreciate it as everyone seems to be against the very idea that 2 miscellaneous bonuses do not stack.
@Charender
What you've quoted and bolded shows me nothing.. I already know that it's a virtual increase (as stated multiple times before). Virtual size increases stack while physical ones do not. If the sword was actually growing in size twice, then I would absolutely agree with you that the size increases do not stack (as per Enlarge Person), but they do not, they are growing virtually.
Ssalarn's 2nd post stating that size increases do not stack is correct... for physically changing your size. There is no rule stating that virtual size increases do not stack.
@Lab Rat
Apparently we have not gone over it enough because there's multiple people arguing against without providing ruling, just quoting text that states the weapon size is increased virtually and not physically. If someone cannot understand that there is a difference between physically and virtually, then please see the Enlarge Person ruling that Ssalarn pointed out. If said person still does not understand that they stack because they're virtual, then there is still a point to go over it.
@ Mergy
Thank you for adding simple math to this. I agree with you. If 1 + 1 = 2, does it or does it not equal 2?
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@ Mergy
Thank you for adding simple math to this. I agree with you. If 1 + 1 = 2, does it or does it not equal 2?
The point he was making is that you are not adding 1+1. Each ability allows you to treat a weapon of a specific size as though it were one size larger. One size larger than medium will always be large, no matter how many times something allows you to treat your medium weapon as one size larger.
If something said "add one size category to the weapon's total effective size" then you might have something to go off of.Also this business about "It's a virtual size increase so it doesn't follow the rules for size increases" is spun totally whole cloth from the depths of your mind, with no rules support anywhere.
Let's say your weapon's actual size is X.
If you had an effect that increased your weapon's effective size by 1, you'd express that as X+1. If you had two such effects, it would be X+2.
However, what we actually have are two effects that each set your weapon's size as one larger than it actually is--i.e. as X+1.
So item one makes your weapon X+1, and item two sets your weapon at X+1. There's no further addition. They do not add size, they set size.
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One and one indeed equal two.
However, what the weapon enhancement and belt both say isn't addition. They bring the value up to one higher than normal. If normal is one, they bring it up to two. It doesn't matter how many of those you stack, because if normal is one, and all of them bring the value up one above normal, you're going to end up with two. Not three. Not four.
The point he was making is that you are not adding 1+1. Each ability allows you to treat a weapon of a specific size as though it were one size larger. One size larger than medium will always be large, no matter how many times something allows you to treat your medium weapon as one size larger.
If something said "add one size category to the weapon's total effective size" then you might have something to go off of.
Also this business about "It's a virtual size increase so it doesn't follow the rules for size increases" is spun totally whole cloth from the depths of your mind, with no rules support anywhere.
Yet it does not stop being a matter of differing interpretations, since the rules provide little to go on.
You guys choose a reading the letter of the text very closely, which can be a decent enough approach to interprete unclear rules.The reality is that these types of spells and effects haven't been multiple in the core rules (I for one can only recollect Shillelaigh). As such, whether they stack or not is a subject that might just not have had specific designer consideration behind it. If the is the case, there is no one interpretation that are absolutely right.
This is as close as you will get to an official answer. JJ answered that bashing enchantment and lead blades - two abilities that use the phrase "damage as if X size category larger" - DO NOT stack.
Ask James Jacobs thread
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Yet it does not stop being a matter of differing interpretations, since the rules provide little to go on.
You guys choose a reading the letter of the text very closely, which can be a decent enough approach to interprete unclear rules.The reality is that these types of spells and effects haven't been multiple in the core rules (I for one can only recollect Shillelaigh). As such, whether they stack or not is a subject that might just not have had specific designer consideration behind it. If the is the case, there is no one interpretation that are absolutely right.
There are existing rules for effects that increase size, namely, they don't stack. The properties themselves are worded in such a way that they do one thing, treat a weapon as one size category larger. The opinion that has no support in the rules is the one that assumes they stack.
To get us back on track.
I swear I remember there being a spell that was similar to the impact ability, and you could use that to make an oil that could be applied to your weapon. I may be thinking of something from 3.5 though.
At level 6, Enlarged Barbarian with large bastard sword.
With point buy, 18 strength, +2 racial, +2 belt, +4 rage, +2 enlarge = 28 strength
+1 magic large bastard sword of impact
1d10 -> 2d8 base damage
Enlarge
2d8 -> 3d8 base damage
Impact
3d8 -> 4d8?6d6 (the table I am looking at doesn't explicity spell this one out)
To hit: +6 BAB, +9 strength, +1 magic, -2 to hit due to oversized weapon, -1 to hit for being large
Required 1 feat, +13 to hit 4d8 + 14
So, 2 feats used so far.
A level 6 barbarian has 4 feats. Throw in Vital strike and Weapon Focus, and you get 8d8 + 14 with a +14 to hit.
A quick semi random sample of CR 7 monsters...
Dire Bear AC 18
Remorhaz AC 20
Shadow Demon AC 18
Young Black Dragon AC 21
So you are hitting most foes on a 4-7 and hitting for an average of 50 damage and you can move and still hit for full damage. I am sure a properly optimized fighter could beat you on a full attack, but not by much. This character also makes a mockery of most DR you come across, where a DW fighter would struggle.
This seems like a great e6 build. I have a feeling it starts out pretty strong, then peaks out between level 6-8, then other builds will surpass it.
The point he was making is that you are not adding 1+1. Each ability allows you to treat a weapon of a specific size as though it were one size larger. One size larger than medium will always be large, no matter how many times something allows you to treat your medium weapon as one size larger.
If something said "add one size category to the weapon's total effective size" then you might have something to go off of.
Also this business about "It's a virtual size increase so it doesn't follow the rules for size increases" is spun totally whole cloth from the depths of your mind, with no rules support anywhere.
There actually is a limit, the size cannot increase past colossal as that's the largest size there is (I guess Colossal+ and +++ exist as I remember seeing reference to it somewhere, maybe a optional rule).
To try and state this a different way, let's take the monk. The monk naturally deals more damage with his fists via his class. A 1st level medium monk deals 1d6 unarmed damage (STR not stated) because of his class, otherwise it would deal 1d3 non-lethal. Now give him a monks robe. The monks robe increases the size virtually 5 levels (proving that "this business about "It's a virtual size increase so it doesn't follow the rules for size increases" is spun totally whole cloth from the depths of your mind, with no rules support anywhere." does actually exist and has rules precedent). Likewise, there are also items that increase a paladins smite multiple levels virtually as well.
@mplindustries
From what I see when something checks the item, it says "Okay, lets look at the current size, if it size X then let's give it a increase of 1. That changes it to that current number. Then another bonus comes along and says "Let's look at the size and give a increase of 1 to it". So it looks at the current modified size and gives a +1 to it because it has already been changed.
@ Mergy
Impact:
dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger.
Belt of Thunderous Charging:
deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are.
These are the bolded parts pulled from HaraldKlaks post above. In the case of "They bring the value up to one higher than normal" as you state, only the Belt of Thunderous Charging is affected as "normal" would be medium bringing it up to large. When that happens, Impact would affect the item and give it an additional increase as it checks the largest current size, not the base.
Now, would the "base" be increased to Large after the potion of Enlarge Person was used? I would believe so, if not, then the belt of thunderous charge could not work with a enlarged character. If it does, then there would be 2 size increases on top of that, if not, then it would only be Impact that affects it.
@mplindustries
From what I see when something checks the item, it says "Okay, lets look at the current size, if it size X then let's give it a increase of 1. That changes it to that current number. Then another bonus comes along and says "Let's look at the size and give a increase of 1 to it". So it looks at the current modified size and gives a +1 to it because it has already been changed.
It doesn't say it works that way, though. It never gives an increase of 1. It specifically sets the size to the current size plus 1.
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To try and state this a different way, let's take the monk. The monk naturally deals more damage with his fists via his class. A 1st level medium monk deals 1d6 unarmed damage (STR not stated) because of his class, otherwise it would deal 1d3 non-lethal. Now give him a monks robe. The monks robe increases the size virtually 5 levels (proving that "this business about "It's a virtual size increase so it doesn't follow the rules for size increases" is spun totally whole cloth from the depths of your mind, with no rules support anywhere." does actually exist and has rules precedent). Likewise, there are also items that increase a paladins smite multiple levels virtually as well.
The robe isn't increasing size, it is increasing the base damage of a monk's unarmed strike. The monk's fists aren't getting bigger, they're becoming more effective. Effective level increases have absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. There isn't even a corollary.
@mplindustries
From what I see when something checks the item, it says "Okay, lets look at the current size, if it size X then let's give it a increase of 1. That changes it to that current number. Then another bonus comes along and says "Let's look at the size and give a increase of 1 to it". So it looks at the current modified size and gives a +1 to it because it has already been changed.
This is you making up how things work because that's how you want it to work. The belt says "when the wearer makes a charge attack, her Melee Weapons and Natural Weapons deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are." It's not checking some metaphysical property of the weapon's size it's checking THE WEAPON'S ACTUAL SIZE and allowing it to deal damage as though it were one size category larger than that.
The creative director of Paizo has stated that effects like this shouldn't stack. The properties themselves are written in such a way as to provide a flat static benefit, not a scaling bonus. Getting them to stack is just wishful munchkinism with no basis in the rules, generally or specifically.
Everyone is aware that, as it's currently worded, the impact quality doesn't appear to reference the size something actually is, right?
This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons that are not light weapons. An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger. In addition, any bull rush combat maneuver the wielder attempts while wielding the weapon gains a bonus equal to the weapon's enhancement bonus; this includes all bull rush attempts, not only those in which a weapon is used, such as Bull Rush Strike, Shield Slam, or Unseat.
It seems as if all the other size enhance effects (lead blades, strong jaw, Belt of Thunderous Charging) all mention actual size, but Impact doesn't. So treating it the same, as far as it's worded now, may be incorrect.