With Sony giving SWG the boot, and SWGEMU stuck in the mud, I wonder if they could get the code to SWG's creature handler system? I loved the complexity and options their system allowed. Would have to change it over from technology based to magic based though.
Ah we'll, hopefully they will allow us to breed mounts at least.
Goblin Squad Member
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I think they mentioned somewhere that animal companions are going to be slotted abilities, so I expect you animal companions to respawn with you, when you respawn. Otherwise calling new animals every time (and training them) would be a chore, maybe if the pet classes get a raise companion spell...
But yeah I don't know either.
I doubt it will be like WoW's pet system. PFO doesn't have any classes (not in the traditional sense). But I wouldn't doubt it if there will be certain skill trees (ex: ranger,druid path) that will give you skills to tame wild, young creatures
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sebastian, you wouldn't always have to tame a new animal when you lost it if there was a stable system like Ultima Online. I think it allowed a tamer to store five animals at a time for a fee. When/if you lost an animal whilst adventuring you could claim another at the stable if you had one stored.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sebastian, you wouldn't always have to tame a new animal when you lost it if there was a stable system like Ultima Online. I think it allowed a tamer to store five animals at a time for a fee. When/if you lost an animal whilst adventuring you could claim another at the stable if you had one stored.
Interesting, I see the subject from the view of a longtime D&D and Pathfinder player. In the RPG it is usually a valid option to lose your animal companion (set him free in the wild) and replace him with another, This option (while used not that often) is quite useful when the campaign changes location (e.g. from the sea into the desert).
The disadvantage about this is, that animals (even those empowered by the connection with a ranger or druid) are pretty stupid, and have to learn the various tricks like “attack” “guard” and “stop eating that gnome”. So exchanging an animal companion does have a downside.That said, I see no reason not to give the player access to a spell the raise his furry buddy. I am not sure how other players feel about this, but my latest mmo character (a hunter in wow) would not part with his beloved spirit beast (that took his player every night for about three weeks to catch).
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Of course, in Pathfinder, there is a large distinction between an animal companion, a familiar, and a pet. Summoned Creatures would probably fit in this mix too. There are also animal allies.
For animal companions and familiars, you can only have one each. They are a result of a special mystical bond. They're loyal and grow in power along side your character. When one dies, you can get another, after performing a lengthy ritual. Similarly, you can dismiss them for another, but it isn't supposed to be a simple thing, these creatures are supposed to be life long friends with which you have a deep connection.
Then there are pets, pets are tamed animals, either reared from birth by a player or bought from a store that sells pets. These can be mundane dogs and pack animals, but they can even be some unintelligent magical beasts. They can be trained to follow commands and often serve loyally, however, they can be easily killed or even scared off, and if that happens they're pretty much gone for good. In theory, you can have as many of these pets as you can afford to feed and take care of.
Animal allies are similar, but are generally wild animals that a druid or the like as befriended with Animal Empathy. These animals are generally just creatures that have decided they like you, and so they help you out a bit. You have no direct control over them, though if you have the means to communicate you can request their help with specific tasks. However, if things get rough they'll probably have no qualms with abandoning you to look after themselves. In theory, the number of animal allies you can have is limitless.
Summoned monsters are creatures conjured from other planes of reality to aid you in battle. They'll defend you to the death, but will act independently unless you have a means to communicate with them. Dying is of little consequence to them as it simply causes them to be sent back where they came from. I think generally you can only have one active summoning spell at a time, but I could be wrong. Higher level summing spells such as Gate can bring forth some incredibly powerful creatures, even gods. However, you often don't have any control over their actions and they may very well decide to destroy you, or the whole world...
These are the main different types of 'pets' available in pathfinder, with some minor variations (like a paladin's mount, or a witches familar). What Goblinworks will actually manage to include in the game I can only imagine, but I remain hopeful that each type will be represented in-game (I expect that animal allies will be hardest to implement, while tamed pets will probably have a cap on how many you can have).
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Goblin Squad Member
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For animal companions and familiars, you can only have one each.
Is this true? So, if I play a Paladin until I get my mount, and then take a level of Druid, are you saying I cannot have two animal companions?
I don't have near enough experience to know for sure, but that doesn't seem right intuitively.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For animal companions and familiars, you can only have one each.Is this true? So, if I play a Paladin until I get my mount, and then take a level of Druid, are you saying I cannot have two animal companions?
I don't have near enough experience to know for sure, but that doesn't seem right intuitively.
Well, I did mention a paladin's mount as a variation. The paladin's class feature doesn't actually mention this matter of having a animal companion from another class, however, the druid class feature does.
According to the druid's class feature, if you have more then one class that grants an animal companion, then the class levels stack for determining the level of your animal companion. So if a level 5 paladin takes 1 level in druid then they'll have a level 6 animal companion mount, but if they take a level in fighter then their mount will be stuck at level 5.So in short, no, you cannot gain more then one animal companion, but multiclassing into another class that grants one is more beneficial then multiclassing into a class that doesn't.
Familiars work pretty much the same way.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For animal companions and familiars, you can only have one each.Is this true? So, if I play a Paladin until I get my mount, and then take a level of Druid, are you saying I cannot have two animal companions?
I don't have near enough experience to know for sure, but that doesn't seem right intuitively.
It is not correct. A Druid/Wizard could have both - and with the right feats even have two familiars.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is not correct. A Druid/Wizard could have both - and with the right feats even have two familiars.For animal companions and familiars, you can only have one each.Is this true? So, if I play a Paladin until I get my mount, and then take a level of Druid, are you saying I cannot have two animal companions?
I don't have near enough experience to know for sure, but that doesn't seem right intuitively.
A familiar is not the same as an animal companion. Any combination of classes that grant animal companions and familiars will allow you to have both. That's why I said one each.
I'm not familiar (ha) with any feats that grant extra familiars, but I don't claim to know everything. Sounds third party to me though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Summoned monsters are creatures conjured from other planes of reality to aid you in battle. They'll defend you to the death, but will act independently unless you have a means to communicate with them. Dying is of little consequence to them as it simply causes them to be sent back where they came from. I think generally you can only have one active summoning spell at a time, but I could be wrong....
And while you explained very well how summoned creatures work, I would like to extend your list with called creatures. Those creatures are not summoned, but called to your location from their home plane. They don't have to serve you without compensation (of course a skilled summoner can lower the cost of the service considerably) and once they are killed, they are dead. These spells do have the advantage, that they don't have a duration, so a powerful Druid could call and bind a powerful earth elemental to guard his sanctum for a predetermined amount of time ( lets say a year)or until certain conditions are met.
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Goblin Squad Member
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An animal companion is a typically mundane animal that your character seeks out (or is given in the case of a paladin) that you then form a mystical bond with, this bond allows the animal to grow in power along with your character, but it still a mostly normal animal (paladin's mounts become celestial, exceptions to every rule, etc.). An animal companion is mostly used as an ally to complement you in battle.
A familiar is a much more magical creature, no matter what animal it was it is treated as a magical beast. It increases in intelligence as well as power along side you. It's health and power is directly tied into yours but is generally a lot smaller and weaker then an animal companion. Familiars are meant to act as servants/assistants and are less prone to helping in battle.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is not correct. A Druid/Wizard could have both - and with the right feats even have two familiars.For animal companions and familiars, you can only have one each.Is this true? So, if I play a Paladin until I get my mount, and then take a level of Druid, are you saying I cannot have two animal companions?
I don't have near enough experience to know for sure, but that doesn't seem right intuitively.
A familiar is not the same as an animal companion. Any combination of classes that grant animal companions and familiars will allow you to have both. That's why I said one each.
I'm not familiar (ha) with any feats that grant extra familiars, but I don't claim to know everything. Sounds third party to me though.
I apologize, I didn't read your answer carefully enough, concerning the feat, yes it is actually third party (damn you d20pfsrd and your convenient search) . But apparently there are some obscure ways to get two with paizo material (just searched in the forum, I really though I had seen this somewhere in a paizo source). If it helps, there are usually archetypes that mess with abilties like these: there is an paizo Summoner archetype that gets several weaker eidolons (Broodmaster) and a Druid archetype that can split his animal companion ability (Pack Lord) – both archetypes are from Ultimate Magic .But don't ask me how this would work with a Druid(Pack Lord)/Paladin ^^
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Goblin Squad Member
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Interesting thought there with the Pack Lord Paladin. Also, ooh, I forgot about eidolons, there's a mechanical nightmare if ever there was one. I suspect summoners will be one of the last base classes to be implemented, if they get that far into the non-core classes, simply because of the eidolons.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Blah blah blah, called creatures. Blah, not summoned, blah blah. Blah blah blah, killed, blah blah, dead. Blah blah blah, duration, blah blah blah, conditions, blah.Yep.
(heheh, no offense meant, just having fun saving space.)
^^ Pathfinder Online is going to be fun with such a community. ^^
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Goblin Squad Member
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Interesting thought there with the Pack Lord Paladin. Also, ooh, I forgot about eidolons, there's a mechanical nightmare if ever there was one. I suspect summoners will be one of the last base classes to be implemented, if they get that far into the non-core classes, simply because of the eidolons.
Actually not even such a huge nightmare, of course slotting they eidolon ability should be quite taxing. Appearance customization might be the toughest part, how to you create a system that allows me to create a mix of between Kerrigan queen of blades, Jenova (back when she was behind glass) and a shogoth..... or you know some more sane options?
Yeah I think summoners will have to wait.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Some alchemist discoveries present similar problems, like the tumor familiar, you gain a familiar by growing it out of your own body, and it can separate and re-merge with you at any time. The vestigial arm discovery lets you grow an extra arm, and you can take it twice for two extra arms, which can wield weapons and use items and such. There is also one for growing tentacles, and one for growing wings. Be interesting to see them implement that, might make a good test run for the eidolons.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What i would like to see for the pet system since there is no classes is a skill that isnt tied to a class that allows you to have an animal companion and to bring it out you would need to slot it as a passive ability or utility skill which would make it basically a vanity pet it doesnt help you just follows you around and if you want it to actually engage in combat with you you would need to slot a seperate ability in place of one of you attack abilities so that when i am not delving into some forgotten ruins with a party or part of an expedition to clean out a lizardman encampment my fighter can explore the world with a pet wolf that could lend a hand in whatever i find in the wold. and by using those slots that would normally be used for important skills it in my opnion would help balance out damage output or even survivabilty by choosing to forgo a skill that say would increase my defense or attack power in a last ditch effort to survive like last stand and retaliation in WoW for a pet and going one less attack ability so that it actually helps you and doesnt look pretty. also by having the pet use up a important skil slot to just be vanity it would help keep down the amount of vanity pets people have out when you are in a big battle...so it wouldnt be like a raid where everyone has there pets out (from WoW experience again) and create unecassary lag
Seems like there are a few issues - Here's my 2 cents and I hope it's in the realm of what I've been reading.
Vanity pets - buy 'em in the store. Or from someone that's bored with their penguin. They should have no effect in the game. And they shouldn't be allowed outside of settled areas. They are window dressing and fluff and have no place on the battlefield. They shouldn't be allowed as a distraction or intimidation when I'm fighting to survive.
As for pets in general, like horses and dogs, and maybe (pretty please?) even some monster types...those should be gotten from chars
that have put skill time into animal handling and have spent time,effort and money (puppychow, oats, or dragonfodder) to find and raise a pet. Those chars should be able to use the pet and sell the pet if they want to. (creates a commodity that is desired and is destructible) That pet should follow basic commands, (stay, follow and attack for ex.) although knowing more tricks might command a higher price (guard, track,?). GUIwise they might get a minibar to control their actions.
If someone wants to bring a pet rabbit into the battlefield and it dies, well, I guess my orc will eat well tonight. If they bring their pet pitbull to the battlefield, well, my orc might be dogfood. But if my orc kills that pitbull, that pitbull should be gone. No automatic respawning. If the guy that brought the pitbull to the battle wants another pitbull, by all means let him leave and go buy/raise another. But for right now, that badboy is gone, and if the char wants to keep going he goes without his pet. Same thing for mounts, cart oxen, etc.(Unless a cleric wants to do a raise dead, or if you had insurance?)This keeps the market for new and replacement pets open just like there is a market for arrows, armor and other stuff.It's a way of enforcing the mechanic that if you aren't willing to lose it, don't bring it. Maybe there could be a command to "go home" (another "trick")that would send a pet back home via fast travel(and maybe they'd get waylaid on the way).
If the owner dies and the pet doesn't, well, the owner could go looking for the lost doggie, or buy another, or start skilling up in animal training/handling.
As for limits on the number of game affecting pets a player might have, I'd set the number according to how much capability the char had in animal handling and/or HD. If you are untrained in animal handling I don't think you should be able to get a pet at all, especially if its one that might have a bearing on combat. If you have a minimal skill, then maybe one guard dog (guard only not a trained dog of war with spiked barding). A little more skill might get you 2 poodles or one wardog. A little more might get you a warhorse. A little more might get you a dire bear. A little more might get you 2 war dogs or one giant venomous snake. This would continue all the way on up to a small dragon, wyvern, etc or maybe 5 worgs. The skill (animal handling)should reflect the amount of training and the training should translate into the quantity of HD of "pets" someone could train. For ex 1 small dragon or 5 worgs)Someone with a couple skill points in animal handling should be able to handle common domestic and barnyard animals, while special, unique and exotic animals (lions, elephants, worgs, nightmares, hellhounds, etc) might require more points in the skill. This might be a way to incorporate a pack lord or beastmaster into the game. And it creates a use for the animal handling skill and provides another way for some chars to earn money.
As for paladin mounts, familiars, animal companions, things with a spiritual bond that may be iconic to the class? Since Pathfinder (the game) makes those replaceable, that should be the mechanic.
The paladin should be able to call his mount once/game day (just like in the rules)The druid should have to do a ritual (like in the PF rpg rulebook) to gain/replace an animal companion, as should a mage who loses their familiar. A ranger might need to track or find a suitable companion.
As for summoned pets and crafted constructs - like bats, undead, elementals, devils/demons and golems, hopefully those will be in the game and follow the same rules. They need to cost something - time, money, skill advancement (knowledge) etc. When those pets die, I'd say they are dead. And if the summoner or artificer dies before them, they do whatever they do naturally; standing guard, whatever. Summoned animals might run off, the undead may lurk about, the elementals might return to their plane while the devils/demons might gate in more devils/demons and try to start their own hex colonization, golems might guard the area or wander around. That's in line with a persistent world.
I'd like to avoid seeing everyone with a pet. Pets should be used judiciously and not seen as an unlimited resource. There should be a cost. The paladin that keeps getting his mount killed might have to atone, the wizard, ranger and druid have to put some time and/or money in,the teamster has to purchase horses or oxen, the beast-whisperer has to find and raise/train suitable pets, the summoner and artificers have to find rare ingredients, gems, the necro might have to find a grave, etc. This adds to self generated content.
Also, there might be an alignment cost - if you keep bringing pets to the battlefield to be slaughtered your alignment might change to chaotic, neutral or evil. Think of how Drizzt treated/felt about Gwen...
And final thought, game balance. If, down the road, chars can make golems or summon liches, elementals, devils,/demons,planar beings, etc,it doesn't seem inappropriate that a Beastmaster couldn't raise and train some awesome monster like a kraken or dragon. Biggest hurdle for me there is upkeep - Joe NPC is going to demand a fortune to muck out that dragon stall.:)
Edit: Sorry for the wall of text.Next time I'll limit my thoughts to a penny.
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I've never liked the vanity pets that have become popular in MMOs. They are an annoying distraction, and worse they take away from the value of classes that get companions as a unique class feature, even though that have zero use in combat. Every animal in pathfinder online should have abilities and a mechanical purpose. If they really must include vanity pets in PFO then they should be restricted as decorations for a player's personal home and never leave the house (if we have personal homes, I'm not quite clear on that).
@Richter, Yes, one man armies are actually a thing you can do in table top pathfinder, most DMs and players won't like you if you do that though, as you hog all the combat rounds and have a thousand stats to track.
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One of my favorite parts of UO. That was inspired.
Yep I still remember buying a dragon that someone had tamed in UO. Kept him in the stables and when the PK's started hanging out outside of town out he came. Loved how he always seemed to follow a couple screens behind me and the PK's didnt know what hit them when the fireball would come from off screen and take them down lol.
PK's: Hah get him
ME: Smaug Attack!
PK's: Smaug Attack???
Fireball comes from off screen and dead PK.....was one of my best memories in UO.
