Greetings,
I'm looking for information on how Samurai are treated in the dragon empire. the only previous RPG I had with Samurai was LR5 where anyone not of a equal to higher cast then you treated you with respect and a little bit of fear.
I started playing some of the new Dragon empire games and wanted to point my GM to the right place (as well as read it my self)
Anyone?
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The Dragon Empire booklets (both the 64 and 32 page ones) have some interesting descriptions of samurai, though not very detailed. The Jade Regent adventure path also has a few minor explanations, though that'd be for GM only I suppose. Also, from what I could tell, samurai are treated similarly on Golarion as they are in actual Japanese folklore and history.
The Dragon Empire booklets (both the 64 and 32 page ones) have some interesting descriptions of samurai, though not very detailed. The Jade Regent adventure path also has a few minor explanations, though that'd be for GM only I suppose. Also, from what I could tell, samurai are treated similarly on Golarion as they are in actual Japanese folklore and history.
Just wish there was a better description for GMs.
I had a long discussion in the middle of a mod when someone attempted to rob my Samurai when we where playing one of the Dragon Empire mods.
I asked if he was a commoner.. I was told yes... at which point I said "I kill him" which as a LN Samurai it was 100% within his right (and protected by law) he stated that I would be arrested.
It was a LONG discussion.. I would like to show him something on paper to give him a good idea of what is expected and what, legally, he can and can not do.
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This may also be a case where you the player know more about feudal japan then the GM.
As you mentioned you had a long discussion.
Perhaps it would be a good idea for both you and your GM to lay out what your expectations are,
and how you would like things to play out in your game.
Now, i guess it would be important to point out that Tien Xia and the dragon empires are
inspired by various asian cultures.
There is quite a range of countries in Tian xia. I believe one is ruled by Naga, another by a Kracken, a third by Hob goblins......There are also the "12 successor states" of Lung Wa...a continent spanning empire that broke up 100 years ago When Aroden died. Lung Wa and its successor states have been inspired by chinese movies mythology and culture.
There is also a country called Armandar. Armandar is populated by Taldan settlers. Armandar i believe for those who wanted to play an "Inner Sea" character or race in Tian Xia"
Jin is settled by elves, who run around in "samurai" armor and wield Katannas.
Minkai has been inspired by Feudal Japan.
So a Samurai in Minkai may or may not have the rights of a Samurai in Feudal Japan....it
depends on how the GM wants to run things.
Unfortunately things are not very defined yet. Hopefully if they eventually put out a hard back on Tian Xia, they will provide more detail.
So I would suggest talk to your GM, (as you have), and hopefully you both can figure out what elements you want in your game, and what elements you don't.
Check out Rite publishing's Way of the Samurai (Kaidan setting). It explains the Samurai class providing much background info and nice archetypes.
Check out Rite publishing's Way of the Samurai (Kaidan setting). It explains the Samurai class providing much background info and nice archetypes.
My GM is like "if it's not in a pathfinder book.."
I'm playing this character in PFS.. it seems that the dragon empire books lack a good discussion on the culture.
LR5 has down as the best cultural section I have ever read.. I really wish they would have done something like that for the dragon empire.
alas.. ::sighs::
Check out Rite publishing's Way of the Samurai (Kaidan setting). It explains the Samurai class providing much background info and nice archetypes.My GM is like "if it's not in a pathfinder book.."
I'm playing this character in PFS.. it seems that the dragon empire books lack a good discussion on the culture.
LR5 has down as the best cultural section I have ever read.. I really wish they would have done something like that for the dragon empire.
alas.. ::sighs::
We get that you or your GM aren't pro 3PP, the point of Thanael's post is that the first 11 pages of Way of the Samurai has a better cultural section than even L5R (considering I am familiar with both L5R, and I had help in writing the cultural section, among others in Way of the Samurai). I am the concept creator of Kaidan (setting of Japanese horror for PFRPG), which what the Way of the Samurai is ported.
Truly, samurai house codes (later defined as Bushido) isn't a hard coded activity. In pre-Edo Period of Japan, the house codes weren't inflexible. Sometimes small clans and individual samurai would switch from one noble lord to another, even the opposition in a conflict at the end of a battle - it happened consistently throughout the Sengoku Period.
Even if your GM does not allow the included traits, archetypes, and feats from Way of the Samurai, the cultural section is not game mechanics, rather a very thorough explanation of the formation of samurai, the concept of Bushido, when seppukku was appropriate, etc.
Plus there's a very cool section that aids GM's in designing custom samurai clans that in no way replaces PF rules regarding such. It comes with included kammon (house crests), 36 of them to choose from all based on actual Japanese samurai houses.
I am half Japanese and have spent a lifetime (I'm 50 years old today!) researching Japanese culture, history, and folklore, even visited Japan twice. I am the concept creator for Rite Publishing's Kaidan setting (I own the IP). I was also hired by Paizo to help write the gazetteer for the City of Kasai, in Jade Regent #6: The Empty Throne. I am listed as one of the authors (Michael Tumey). I also designed the hand-drawn version of the City of Kasai map in The Empty Throne - so Paizo thinks I have some expertise on this subject as well.
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Yes, Michael's Kaidan stuff is well researched. Way of the Samurai is a must read if you want to delve into Samurai culture.
Many of the rules are available on d20pfsrd.com (Samurai archetypes,Creating a Samurai Clan), but the 11 pages fluff is not. You might find some stuff in Honor as a Mechanic. But then again if your GM doesn't want read it, bad luck.
The scene you described fit very well for a Samurai on a Japan analogue. But the Dragon Empires are much larger and also encompass China anaolgues iirc. I don't know if a Japanese Samurai would/should behave like that if travelling through China. Or if he would be entitled to killing chinese commoners. In 2E the Oriental Adventures book had a Samurai class too. This was adapted for the China analogue states with a different fluff/background with probably different customs and rights.
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We get that you or your GM aren't pro 3PP....Check out Rite publishing's Way of the Samurai (Kaidan setting). It explains the Samurai class providing much background info and nice archetypes.My GM is like "if it's not in a pathfinder book.."
I'm playing this character in PFS.. it seems that the dragon empire books lack a good discussion on the culture.
LR5 has down as the best cultural section I have ever read.. I really wish they would have done something like that for the dragon empire.
alas.. ::sighs::
Dude Happy Birthday!
also when is Kaidan coming out? I missed the kick starter
Contributor
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Check out Rite publishing's Way of the Samurai (Kaidan setting). It explains the Samurai class providing much background info and nice archetypes.My GM is like "if it's not in a pathfinder book.."
I'm playing this character in PFS.. it seems that the dragon empire books lack a good discussion on the culture.
LR5 has down as the best cultural section I have ever read.. I really wish they would have done something like that for the dragon empire.
alas.. ::sighs::
We get that you or your GM aren't pro 3PP, the point of Thanael's post is that the first 11 pages of Way of the Samurai has a better cultural section than even L5R (considering I am familiar with both L5R, and I had help in writing the cultural section, among others in Way of the Samurai). I am the concept creator of Kaidan (setting of Japanese horror for PFRPG), which what the Way of the Samurai is ported.
Truly, samurai house codes (later defined as Bushido) isn't a hard coded activity. In pre-Edo Period of Japan, the house codes weren't inflexible. Sometimes small clans and individual samurai would switch from one noble lord to another, even the opposition in a conflict at the end of a battle - it happened consistently throughout the Sengoku Period.
Even if your GM does not allow the included traits, archetypes, and feats from Way of the Samurai, the cultural section is not game mechanics, rather a very thorough explanation of the formation of samurai, the concept of Bushido, when seppukku was appropriate, etc.
Plus there's a very cool section that aids GM's in designing custom samurai clans that in no way replaces PF rules regarding such. It comes with included kammon (house crests), 36 of them to choose from all based on actual Japanese samurai houses.
I am half Japanese and have spent a lifetime (I'm 50 years old today!) researching Japanese culture, history, and folklore, even visited Japan...
Happy birthday, Michael!
Dude Happy Birthday!
also when is Kaidan coming out? I missed the kick starter
Thank you, I just feel old though... :p
Kaidan's GM and Player guides are due for release in October 2013, after a very successful Kickstarter last summer. It is currently in the rough draft/editing part of development, now 3 chapters into the GM's guide. There are plans to fold in Way of the Samurai, Way of the Yakuza, In the Company of Kappa, In the Company of Hengeyokai and In the Company of Tengu into the players guide for a larger book.
We have a one-shot 3rd level adventure being released on Jan 25, after having already released the PDF to participating patrons of the Kickstarter.
Also in editing is a line of Kaidan products - Haiku of Horror series, which consist of detailed, hand-drawn mapped locations of iconic Japanese (Kaidanese) locations, the first being a Bath House. These are detailed encounter locations with a pre-built complex encounter included (haunts, a ghost and a curse), with fully statted NPCs of varying CR, and plenty of extra details to use it for other purposes. This should be released in February, currently in editing stage.
Kaidan, is Japanese for Ghost Story - a major concept for the setting.
I get a kick out of DMs who want run OA campaigns/adventures, but don't do their homework.
What, a noble/Knight/Samurai just kill someone without a trial? LOL... guess the guy (DM) never watched history channel or picked up a book.
I had a D&D character die because he accosted another PC, who happened to be a knight. He and I got into an argument and we fought, and I won... and then I was sentenced to death (because I was a commoner). Thats how my very first D&D character died. That was back in 1979, so I'd like to think I've learned just a tiny bit since then. ;)
There's a bit of relativity that needs to be applied here. Yes, a samurai in Minkai would/should have significant social standing and potentially be a law onto himself. But that same samurai traveling through Varisia would run into significant trouble trying that.
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Nunspa...you mentioned that your character is playing in Pathfinder Society Organized Play?
A PFS GM doesn't have the freedom to choose what he does and does not let into the campaign. That is handled by Michael Brook, the campaign coordinator. Also a GM's hands are a bit more tied. In a PFS game, often you have a finite time say 4-5 hours to run the adventure. You are also supposed to run the scenarios as written. He may have had to keep moving things along.
You have much more flexibility in a home game. But still talk to the GM.
Nunspa...you mentioned that your character is playing in Pathfinder Society Organized Play?
A PFS GM doesn't have the freedom to choose what he does and does not let into the campaign. That is handled by Michael Brook, the campaign coordinator. Also a GM's hands are a bit more tied. In a PFS game, often you have a finite time say 4-5 hours to run the adventure. You are also supposed to run the scenarios as written. He may have had to keep moving things along.
You have much more flexibility in a home game. But still talk to the GM.
Oh we play most of our PFS adventures at home.. and they always run over 4 hours.. :oP
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There is an aspect of your question that bears consideration. Tien Xia isn't just one empire. It's a whole bunch of countries that each have their own sovereignty. I imagine that not all of them would react the same way to samarai. Some, I imagine, would treat them as anyone else with arms and armor. Some nations, such as Bauchuan, may be actively opposed to a Samurai that thinks he's better then a commoner.
Moreover, it's unlikely that they would think of a foreign samurai of deserving preferential treatment over their own citizens, especially if they're from a nation with relatively little clout.
My point is, your GM is probably going to have to work out the specifics of the situation his own as there really /isn't/ that detailed of information as to point out how all Samurai are treated everywhere.
If you're doing PFS then it doesn't really matter as the plot is just gonna go on one way or another.