[Character Creation] Magus: straight, Hexcrafter, or Kensai? Help, please.


Advice

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STR Based.


Most people will tell you to take Arcane Accuracy to off set the - from power attack. I do not agree at all. It is too costly. It cost an arcana, a feat (power attack) and the AP/Swift action each use.

But power attack's payoff is poor for a one handed weapon. I suggest just using arcane strike. Being a 3/4 BAB class your power attack would top out low. Arcane strike will end up being over half the damage for far less cost.

So it cost one feat and one swift action when used. Vs the cost I mentioned for Arcane Accuracy... It boggles my mind why people keep saying its a good option.


Arcane Strike is the better Option.


@Azaelas: why you go for a str based? In low levs the AC is a major issue (altough I could spell combat a +4 shield bonus in the 1st round, with a chainmail I'll go up to 20, good AC at low levs). Maybe you think it's not worth throw 2 feats for a dex based?

@Stome: nice analysis. You're right, and it save me up a good feat slot (extra arcana or arcane pool boost, or eve arcane strike - that's a feat with lower requirement for the magus than power attack). Do you think for a str build as Azaelas?


I in fact like both str and dex builds. STR does have the upper hand in being able to two hand the weapon when you don't need to use spell combat or want to save resources.

Dex has the upper hand in Ac at lower lvls but its nothing that can't be dealt with.


STR Build go for a nice weapon like the Falcata, Rhoka Sword, or Katana and use Arcane Strike with say Spell Combat with Burning Hands or Shocking Grasp or Spellstrike with it. Especially on a Katana with the Improved Critical or Keen Enchantment.

Urumi might be worth it...


Blackstorm wrote:
Pendagast wrote:

I'm not sure what you are getting at with the hexes.... the level 11 thing?

No, now I cleared my mind about that. Now, I would like to know if the hexcraft thing worth pospone spell Recall at 11th.

Yes. It should be noted that one daily use of Spell Recall (for a 1st level spell) can effectively be purchased here. Feel free to stock up on 'em!

Scarab Sages

The advantage of human with the dex build is you can still get arcane strike at level 1.

With the str build, race is less important.


Falcata is a pretty poor choice. Spellstrike does make the spell used with it crit but it is only ever X2 no matter the weapons crit modifier. Meaning the X3 on Falcata is largely waster.

In fact sadly none of the high crit range exotic weapons are really worth the feat. Unless of course you just did the flavor.

Scarab Sages

If a strength based kensai, there is little reason not to choose katana or rhoka.

Otherwise, scimitar is your best option for a standard melee build.

For a dex build, scimitar is the only viable choice.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Was wondering this morning...

Tiefling Kensai, no heritage so +2 int, +2 dex. Take your first level feat as armor of the pit, wear a haramaki. Assuming you keep your dex a modest 16, you're looking at an AC of 16 at first level (Dex, nat armor, haramaki) and keep adding your int as you go.

I hate heavy armor, the big slow guy likes to play nimble fast characters. :-)


With those stats you should tell ur rogue friend to play a ninja instead.. Their superior in everyway to a rogue save magic traps and summoned monsters via cleric or wizard can pop those easily, all thats needed is a percpetion check and detect magic to find them.. As far as ur character goes, i play a str based kensai magus(no bladeboud), in a high level campaign and hes a blast.. Can reach a 40 ac barechested and hits like a mac truck with his 5 attacks a round.. I use monstorous physique alot with him, as well as CC and other buffs and blasts.. I took the enduring blade arcana, as well as the bane one so for 3 aracane points my weapon gets +4 enhancement and a bane ability that lasts for 16mins not 1.. To be honest i dont miss spell recall that much and its probably because i dont depend on my spells to much.. I took the familiar arcana and improved familiar for a wand battery on my shoulder that does most of my buffing.. With that said the Hexcrafter seems to be really good as well.. Good luck with w/e u play!


@abyssion - I assume you tried to link to a Pearl of power`?

Dex based = More AC, less dam - an it stays that way.

AC:
Str based can end up with a +5 mithral Full plate and +3 dex = +17 Ac
Int + dex + 8 brachers of armor from a Kensei build can top that...
(All other Ac bonuses should be the same as far as i can see)

Dam
Dex build are 1 feats behind and don't get to 2hand those single attacks.
It's not much - but there's just a little more dam

Scarab Sages

Dex build is a 2 feat investment.

Weapon Finesse + Dervish Dance


My guy started with a 18str+4level+6belt+2inherent =28 and he gets an additional +6size when using monster phy.. With arcane strike/power attack/weapon spec and greater his damage is like 1d8+32 and his attacks are ard +35/+35/+30/+25 with just haste and greater heroism, with an additional attack via spell combat. 15/20 crit x2 or x3 with an pool point spent keeps his damage as good as a dancer build i think.. And he has great Ac still and some blaster spells to boot.. Now i think Dancer build is better at lower/mid levels i think it falls behind str at higher levels..


Artanthos wrote:

Dex build is a 2 feat investment.

Weapon Finesse + Dervish Dance

- I stand corrected...

At lvl 1-5 most magus build will have problems doing either respectable damage or having a respectable AC... Make a choise...

I dislike the kensie's loss of spells from a class that already have too few to spells. (what happend to the Duskblades amount of spells?)
So I favor str.

Dark Archive

As someone who went the dex based route on a hexcrafter I truly regret taking that option. The slight bump in AC was definitely not worth the loss in combat effectiveness. Also as soon as you start using the Prehensile hair hex (and every other hex you take) those points you put in Dex suddenly become wasted.

You change from being a frontline combatant to a mid-liner (10-20 ft range) using your hair like a whip to deliver your spells and doing automatic 2-hder damage on every swing (as a single primary natural attack it does 1.5x damage on each attack and gets the full benefit of power attack for -1/+3 if you can fit the feat into your choices). The hair hex also lets you benefit from an Amulet of Mighty Fists (spell storing) so you can actually affect your target with 2 spells per round, every round of combat. (I like keeping a shocking grasp in the amulet and start the fight with a spell combat'ed Frostbite spell so it will be in effect the whole fight).

As for stats keep Dexterity and Strength both at about 13-14 range and dump everything you can into your Int score, it's the only one that really matters for a Hexcrafter. It will determine the number and DC of all your spells, Hexes, skills AND THE DAMAGE OF YOUR PRIMARY WEAPON!!
Remember, your prehensile hair uses your Int bonus for your to hit and damage modifiers not your strength so every time you increase it by 1 point you increase your to-hit chance 1 and your damage per hit by 1.5 points. Focusing primarily on your Int is amazingly effective for a Hexcrafter and can make you almost as powerful a caster as a pure wizard while still being quite effective as a melee'er.

All this together lets you keep your distance from your opponent:
1. Threaten a massive area (2 squares in every direction) which benefits insanely from the enlarge spell + Lunge feat (control 4 squares in every direction)
2. Do crazy amounts of damage every round (at least TWO 2hd Power attack hits every round with twice your int bonus added to your hit chance)
3. Get off more then one spell effect every round (AoMF (spell Storing) + long duration touch spell (Frostbite, chill touch, etc) on top of the 2hd damage above.
4. More spells then any other magus-type in the game and with higher DC's then they could ever get WITH unlimited at will, non-interruptible powers/debuffs/direct damage abilities that ignore Spell resistance and can't be percieved by the target.

All of this at the low cost of delaying spell recall for a few levels, oh and not wasting any feats/stat points on Dexterity.

Now there are 2 noticeable downsides to going this route unfortunately.

First, you take a round or 2 to prepare for any real fight (activating your hair eats your standard action in the first round and for the big fights activating flight eats your standard in the second round).

Second, you have so many possible actions every round of combat you can be overwhelmed at times trying to decide what to do, but you'll get used to it.

edit: Also don't worry about Arcane pool points for Arcane Accuracy, burn em every chance you can till you only have 1 left you'll get more. Just buy a Wyroot kukri and spend that last point to keen it. Then go around stabbing everything you can after the fight. Every crit equals 1 arcane point returned to you and if you don't crit the target takes almost no damage. (I'm found of a bag of rats, you can refill your pool 3-4 times a day with them and never kill any of em).


Awesome guys, really awesome. I like this forum :P

Anyway, one note:
I'm not going to play a kensai, I'd like to play an Hexcrafter, so consider that in yours suggestion. I know, the kensai is more efficient in melee damage, but the hexes thing really made love the hexcrafter.

For the other things:

@Werepox47: the rougue player want to play the rogue, she like the rogue concept, so I don't see why I should turn her on to ninja. On top of that, ninja, samurai, and monk, as well as firearms (ergo gunslinger) are banned from this campaign. So, no point in that. We're discussing on my magus, not on how the rest of player should optimize their build :)

@Bigtuna:

Quote:

At lvl 1-5 most magus build will have problems doing either respectable damage or having a respectable AC... Make a choise...

I dislike the kensie's loss of spells from a class that already have too few to spells. (what happend to the Duskblades amount of spells?)
So I favor str.

You're catch the point. With a 13 con, I feel somewhat uncovered. I did some math this afternoon, and I think I'll take the str based. Maybe I'm going to suffer a little, but i think it's worth the pain if I survive.

So, suggestion for 1st lev feat? I'm thinking of arcane strike, But I'm open to any suggestion. A magus arcana that seems nice at low levs are Close Range (big deal with ray spells), obviously Accursed Strike, and I'm in doubt with Arcane accuracy, maybe redundant with Arcane strike?

@Mathwei: interesting, but I didn't get: aren't the hair a secondary attack? An can the hair fight with a weapon? Another question: it seems that I can do a full routine of attacks, like a 2h weapon spell combat+spellstrike and the secondary with hair, ending up with a -2/-2/-7, right?

--------------

One more question, that's not clear to me: can I spellstrike with 2handed? If I can, can I do spell combat+spelstrike 2h?


Arcane Accuracy adds int to hit not damage and i would suggest it as ur first arcana.. Feat wise for str based i would suggest power attack first, arcane strike for me isnt worth it till +3damage comes online..

Dark Archive

Blackstorm wrote:

Awesome guys, really awesome. I like this forum :P

Anyway, one note:
I'm not going to play a kensai, I'd like to play an Hexcrafter, so consider that in yours suggestion. I know, the kensai is more efficient in melee damage, but the hexes thing really made love the hexcrafter.

For the other things:

@Werepox47: the rougue player want to play the rogue, she like the rogue concept, so I don't see why I should turn her on to ninja. On top of that, ninja, samurai, and monk, as well as firearms (ergo gunslinger) are banned from this campaign. So, no point in that. We're discussing on my magus, not on how the rest of player should optimize their build :)

@Bigtuna:

Quote:

At lvl 1-5 most magus build will have problems doing either respectable damage or having a respectable AC... Make a choise...

I dislike the kensie's loss of spells from a class that already have too few to spells. (what happend to the Duskblades amount of spells?)
So I favor str.

You're catch the point. With a 13 con, I feel somewhat uncovered. I did some math this afternoon, and I think I'll take the str based. Maybe I'm going to suffer a little, but i think it's worth the pain if I survive.

So, suggestion for 1st lev feat? I'm thinking of arcane strike, But I'm open to any suggestion. A magus arcana that seems nice at low levs are Close Range (big deal with ray spells), obviously Accursed Strike, and I'm in doubt with Arcane accuracy, maybe redundant with Arcane strike?

@Mathwei: interesting, but I didn't get: aren't the hair a secondary attack? An can the hair fight with a weapon? Another question: it seems that I can do a full routine of attacks, like a 2h weapon spell combat+spellstrike and the secondary with hair, ending up with a -2/-2/-7, right?

--------------

One more question, that's not clear to me: can I spellstrike with 2handed? If I can, can I do spell combat+spelstrike 2h?

Ok, most everyone misses a few things with natural attacks so I'll clarify it for you. Yes the Prehensile Hair is flagged as secondary BUT according to the natural attack rules if the secondary attack is the only one that you use that round then it is automatically considered a primary attack AND if it's the only natural attack you have it benefits from 1.5x strength on it's damage.

Quote:

PRD:

Natural Attacks Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. Table: Natural Attacks by Size lists some of the most common types of natural attacks and their classifications.

Now as for mixing with iterative attacks I'd recommend against it. For the extra attack you'd get all your biggest attacks (the hair) will lose 5 to hit and only half your Int to damage, it's not worth it most of the time. Use your spell combat to make your hair attack twice for -2/-2 and use a swift action to use arcane accuracy to boost it up (my Magus is at a +8 int bonus at 10th lvl) to overcome the 3/4 Bab, Power Attack and Spell Combat penalty while also giving a good boost to your hit chance that stacks with the enhancement bonus from your arcane pool. At 10th level I'm usually rocking a +26-ish to hit and +15 damage. all of that before throwing on all the extra damage from frostbite (1D6+10 per hit) + shocking grasp damage as well (10D6) for about 13D6+70 every round of combat. Mix in the iterative attacks and that damage goes WAY down.

Arcane Strike is a BAD feat don't take it, you have much better things to do with your swift action every round (arcane accuracy, quickened spells, empowering your weapon, feather fall, Hasted assault arcana, etc).

Spellstrike, of course you can use it with a 2 handed weapon. You can use it with ANY weapon.

Spellstrike, PRD wrote:


At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack.

@WerePox47, You are correct but we're not talking about that. We're talking about the Prehensile Hair hex that defaults to using the characters Int bonus instead of their Str for melee attacks. THEN you use the arcane accuracy to add your int bonus to hit on top of that again. 2x/int ot hit & 1.5x/Int to damage on every attack.


Bigtuna wrote:
@abyssion - I assume you tried to link to a Pearl of power`?

Dang. I guess I should have tested my link before posting it. Yes, Pearl of Power.


Im not in the dex camp with magus either.

The human dual talent allows the hex crafter to get decent STR and INT.

Elf is another good race choice because you get bonus to dex and int so you can point buy up str higher.

A dex in the 13 range is plenty good

S 14-15
dex 12-13
con 12-14
Int 14-17
Wis 12-14
Cha 8-12

All in all, the magus can be a decent class and fun to play with a mediocre stat block.

In play testing almost all Dex based builders were vert displeased with their dex builds and complaining about damage and effectiveness and constantly dying.

Many DM's will not allow Dervish Dance. Since your DM wont allow things like samurai, ninja, and monk (or gunslinger) I would be surprised if he was going to allow dervish dance because it is also flavor/region based.

Now, If I were to be running an Orsirian Campaign, Or Legacy of Fire, I might even encourage a dervish dance build (there is an Elf Magus Arcana in the ARG that I would also think culturally almost requires the feat). So IF you have a good in game reason for it sure.

but on the basis of it "needs" to be part of this "build" no, it's not a main stream feat.

So I wouldn't bank on it.

IF I was going to try to push dervish dance at a table, I'd make two version of the same character. the Dervish Dancer, and The STR based magus. If the Dervish dance gets shot down, boom, the other version is already built.

However DD is a very bland build... you're not going to make a much different magus again and again, it's about the same.

With a Hexcrafter you're hexes are based off int too.

so with a 20 pt build, and if it were MY character:

S 14
Dex 12
Con 13
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 8

take human dual talent
S16 and int 18... done and done.

However, the elf magus dancer thing: page 24 of the ARG
Loses medium and heavy armor to pick up other things blah blah blah.

It's CRYING to be a dex build, AND (IMO) a DM that doesn't let you take Dervish Dancer, for the Spell DANCER archetype, is being a TOOL.

In that case be an elf:
S 12
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 8

Which as an Elf would be

S 12
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 8

Boom:

So you could be a Spell dancer/hexcrafter.

You lose two things by being a spell dancer, the level 5 bonus feat, and you cant spend arcane pool to boost your weapon.

If that's huge draw back for you: 1) go STR magus, 2) what about a a Bladebound/Spell Dancer/Hexcrafter?

That sounds cool and unique.

(Imo losing the magic sword boost isnt huge, because there are so many things to spend arcane points on and between spell dance and dervish dance you already have a huge bonus to hit, if you need to make your sword magic, use arcane strike)


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


Ok, most everyone misses a few things with natural attacks so I'll clarify it for you. Yes the Prehensile Hair is flagged as secondary BUT according to the natural attack rules if the secondary attack is the only one that you use that round then it is automatically considered a primary attack AND if it's the only natural attack you have it benefits from 1.5x strength on it's damage.

Gaaaah. True, you're right. For the rest, what I'm asking is that if I use a weapon 2H, and I want to spellstrike+spellcombat, can I?

Other thing: technically speaking, I'm not wielding a weapon if I'm using my natural attack, yup? So, in theory I cannot spellstrike/spell combat, or even boost the hair... I'm wrong (I hope that I'm wrong, but the text seems to refer only to manifactured weapons...)

@Pendagast: TY, but I think I'll play a straight Hexcrafter. I'm not know the magus so well, so I'd like to play nearly stright. As you see, I have some serious issue even witha straight hexcrafter... If you suggest a triple archetype, my brain will explode :D

Dark Archive

Blackstorm wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


Ok, most everyone misses a few things with natural attacks so I'll clarify it for you. Yes the Prehensile Hair is flagged as secondary BUT according to the natural attack rules if the secondary attack is the only one that you use that round then it is automatically considered a primary attack AND if it's the only natural attack you have it benefits from 1.5x strength on it's damage.

Gaaaah. True, you're right. For the rest, what I'm asking is that if I use a weapon 2H, and I want to spellstrike+spellcombat, can I?

Other thing: technically speaking, I'm not wielding a weapon if I'm using my natural attack, yup? So, in theory I cannot spellstrike/spell combat, or even boost the hair... I'm wrong (I hope that I'm wrong, but the text seems to refer only to manifactured weapons...)

@Pendagast: TY, but I think I'll play a straight Hexcrafter. I'm not know the magus so well, so I'd like to play nearly stright. As you see, I have some serious issue even witha straight hexcrafter... If you suggest a triple archetype, my brain will explode :D

Natural weapons are weapons, natural attacks are the rules designed for using those weapons.

Now then ALL weapons have 3 states they can be in in the rules as written.
A. Wielded, ready to be used in an attack
B. Held, in hand but not ready to attack or respond to an attack.
C. Sheathed (or disarmed, out of reach, etc), not in hand and can't be used until it is in one of the above two states.

Natural weapons are simply weapons that are always in the wielded state and can't go in the other choices. ust like a frying pan, chair leg or rock it's not made to be a weapon but it can still be wielded as one and the game has rules on using those two which are different then the rules for swords/axes.
Anyway ask yourself this question,
If it's a weapon how can it be used as a weapon if it's not wielded as a weapon?

As for the 2hder question, the spellstrike description tells you it doesn't care what weapon you are using and the spell combat description only states you need:

Quote:
To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand.

You keep one hand free and put a light or 1-handed melee weapon in the other and you have fulfilled all the requirements for it and can now cast that spell. THEN you use spellstrike to channel that spell through your hair attack and ignore that sword in your hand.

It's only purpose is if someone gets too close or you want to take advantage of it's superior threat range.


Hmmm. Can the hair deliver a touch spell (not with spellstrike)?

Scarab Sages

Blackstorm wrote:
Hmmm. Can the hair deliver a touch spell (not with spellstrike)?

Yes.

Just remember it is a secondary attack and suffers a -5 to-hit penalty.


@Pendagast: If you take Adoptive Parentage you can be a Human and be a Spell Dancer.

You can also be a Human Stonelord, Foehammer, or Forgemaster.

Falcata was just a suggestion on nice melee weapons for outside of Spellstrike or dealing extra critical damage.


I love spelldancer. Stacks with hexblade, I think, and will give you phenomenal mobility if you take flight hex.Never has flyby attack been more fun. Drive by shocking grasp scimitar and I'm 80ft away before you know it!


well I was thinking more along the lines of dodge mobility spring attack, but yea....


Fewer feats and harder to chase when you're going diagonally upward.


I might roll a bladebound spell dancer now.... It's not my style really (heavy armor, bastard sword spell combat is more mine) but it's worth a go.


Just caught up on this thread -

Feats - A STR built Magus can be crazy good with the Improved Disarm and Improved Trips feats when combined with a Wand of True Strike. You don't even really need the Improved feats if you cast enlarge on yourself and stay outside the threat range as you'll have a 10 feet reach.

STR Builds also have the bonus of being able to use your one handed weapon with both hands for the extra damage till you get the 2nd level ability Spell Strike or for charges.
Remember, if you are using Spell Strike the requirement is wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon with one hand and having the other hand empty for the full round.


Bigtuna wrote:
Artanthos wrote:

Dex build is a 2 feat investment.

Weapon Finesse + Dervish Dance

- I stand corrected...

At lvl 1-5 most magus build will have problems doing either respectable damage or having a respectable AC... Make a choise...

I dislike the kensie's loss of spells from a class that already have too few to spells. (what happend to the Duskblades amount of spells?)
So I favor str.

you can always play a Str & Dex based Kensai.. I posted my build a few weeks back... I know it sounds MAD but I was only 2 points of damage behind the pure Dex build and had (what I thought) better skills over all.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p9cy?The-way-of-the-blade-Kensai-bladebound#25

Power attack on a weapon you can go two-handed with evens the odds.. quick

I did take a 1 level dip into fighter (Cad) to get a feet and stealth as a class skill.. +25 to stealth by 12th level is baller for a non-armored Kensai


Matt2VK wrote:


Remember, if you are using Spell Strike the requirement is wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon with one hand and having the other hand empty for the full round.

was their an official clarification on that? seeing that swamping hands is a non-action you can two-handed attack on your first attack, let go.. cast and get your free strike as a one-handed attack.


Nunspa wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:


Remember, if you are using Spell Strike the requirement is wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon with one hand and having the other hand empty for the full round.
was their an official clarification on that? seeing that swamping hands is a non-action you can two-handed attack on your first attack, let go.. cast and get your free strike as a one-handed attack.

Buried in the spell strike is this sentence -

As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty).

While that is open to interpertation, the designer of the class has posted on the boards that the intent was the Magus needed his hand free for the whole round to use spell strike.
Sorry, I have no idea where it's posted or who posted it. I do know Grick has posted the link a couple of times.


Spellstrike wrote:

At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

You are thinking of Spell Combat.


Seems some people have a hard time keep the two apart. Spell strike can be used with anything regardless of handedness. I would love to make a two handed magus if only they would make an archetype that gave something even so-so for spell combat.


Well Skirnir looses spell combat (until much later) you could kinda do something there as long as you have a buckler.

The so-so part is... u get a buckler...lol


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Spellstrike wrote:

At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

You are thinking of Spell Combat.

Spell Strike allows you to make a attack with a weapon as part of a the free touch attack you get with normal touch spells. No where does it say you get the extra attack that you get with Spell Combat. Unless you use the Spell Combat class feature with it. Which requires a empty hand for the full round action.


Right. I wasn't arguing with that. It was you said Spellstrike instead of Spell Combat.

My post was saying you were thinking of Spell Combat. Spellstrike is independent. It means you cast the Spell as Normal but instead attack with the weapon instead of the Touch Attack.

One can cast the Spell & make a Two-Handed Attack with it. Especially with the Still Spell Feat.


Sorry, get those two mixed up all the time. (Plus it's late here and I should be in bed).

One can cast the Spell & make a Two-Handed Attack with it. Especially with the Still Spell Feat.

All I can say about this is check with your DM first if you want to do this.

I've never seen it allowed becouse of the empty hand/full round action in the description of spell combat.


Spell Combat and Spellstrike are seperate.

I am referring to Spellstrike.

If I Am Understanding It Correctly: A Magus can Quicken/Still a Shocking Grasp using Spellstrike 2-Handed as a Swift Action then Spell Combat as a Full Round Action using another spell such as Burning Hands.


I still don't get it. For how I read the spellstrike ability, it seems that's not work with the prenshile hair hex. Maybe I'm totally misreading the text, but... don't know, seems like I'm cheating on it. Someone can help me to rid off this feeling?


It depends on the Prehensile Hair Hex's wording.

Grand Lodge

Nunspa wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:


Remember, if you are using Spell Strike the requirement is wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon with one hand and having the other hand empty for the full round.
was their an official clarification on that? seeing that swamping hands is a non-action you can two-handed attack on your first attack, let go.. cast and get your free strike as a one-handed attack.

It's pretty clear as stated. Spell-Combat is a Full Round action, which means your hand has to be kept free for that entire action. The Magus is not the charcter to play if you're wedded to a greatsword. Take EWP for Bastard and you'll at least have the option to switch from a round to round basis.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
It depends on the Prehensile Hair Hex's wording.

Well, they're basically a natural weapon. It seems unclear if i can do spellstrike with them.

Scarab Sages

Blackstorm wrote:
I still don't get it. For how I read the spellstrike ability, it seems that's not work with the prenshile hair hex. Maybe I'm totally misreading the text, but... don't know, seems like I'm cheating on it. Someone can help me to rid off this feeling?

Prehensile hair is a natural weapon. You don't need spellstrike to deliver a touch attack with natural weapons.

Touch spells in combat wrote:
Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

Scarab Sages

LazarX wrote:
Nunspa wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:


Remember, if you are using Spell Strike the requirement is wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon with one hand and having the other hand empty for the full round.
was their an official clarification on that? seeing that swamping hands is a non-action you can two-handed attack on your first attack, let go.. cast and get your free strike as a one-handed attack.
It's pretty clear as stated. Spell-Combat is a Full Round action, which means your hand has to be kept free for that entire action. The Magus is not the charcter to play if you're wedded to a greatsword. Take EWP for Bastard and you'll at least have the option to switch from a round to round basis.

I would not bother with the bastard sword. Most 1-hand melee weapons can be used 2-handed.


Artanthos wrote:
Blackstorm wrote:
I still don't get it. For how I read the spellstrike ability, it seems that's not work with the prenshile hair hex. Maybe I'm totally misreading the text, but... don't know, seems like I'm cheating on it. Someone can help me to rid off this feeling?

Prehensile hair is a natural weapon. You don't need spellstrike to deliver a touch attack with natural weapons.

Ok, but the hexcrafter can take an arcana that allow him to deliver curse spells via spellstrike even if those spells aren't touch spells.


Someone mentioned white haired witch.
Just to make it clear.
Prehensile Hair Hex:
Standard action to activate, 1 minut pr lvl, replaces str with int for to hit/dam. It's a secondary attack.
Normal rules for natural attacks says 1 natural attack makes it a primary attack - some might argue the wording of the hex means it's always a secondary attack. - Tjek with your GM before taking the hex.

White haired witch:
ALWAYS active. replaces str with int for DAM and CMB (grapple - at lvl 4 trip) NO TO HIT!

Spellcombat with natural weapons? - I don't wanna start that again - ask your GM if he'll allow it great, if not just pick a differnt Hex (or just use it to wield a metamagic rod)

Arcane Strike a bad feat? I disagree - unless you have something better to do with your swift actions.
First round - arcane point into weapon.
Second round? There are magus arcanas that might spend swift action, but the magus have so few arcane points i would bother with them for the most part, and even if you did you would have arcane point to use them every round...
Quickend spells? - that's pretty high level an if a feat is great 2/3 of the time - it's still good.

Spell dancer? Arcane point to make your weapon better is In my humble opinion ESSSENTIAL for the magus. Without it he has problems hitting things. One of the major advantages of the magus is his ability to have a blade that overcomes DR. And if the target has a low AC the magus can make his attacks do all kind of energy damage... Don't overlook that.

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