Primary Attacks

[Azerkatil]

If you were to create a character with claws*, such as the Tiefling trait below and with a BAB of, For sake of example 3, and a strength of 18.
Can you make two attacks at +7 for 1d4+4 damage? Or suffer penalty for attacking with offhand?

Quote:

*Maw or Claw Some tieflings take on the more bestial aspects of their fiendish ancestors. These tieflings exhibit either powerful, toothy maws or dangerous claws. The tiefling can choose a bite attack that deals 1d6 points of damage or two claws that each deal 1d4 points of damage. These attacks are primary natural attacks. This racial trait replaces the spell-like ability racial trait.

[Heaggles]

if you only have claws there is no penalty for the off attack, but if you have an bite or use an weapon and a claw attacks you will need to use multiattack feat if you bite and use 2 claws and two weapon fighting feet if you use a weapon with a claw attack. This is how most monsters that have natural weapon attacks are made.

[Azerkatil]

So PCs also come under the same rules? :D

[Heaggles]

Yes. The same rules where used to make the monsters. That is how they balanced the monsters with the PCs

[mplindustries]

Heaggles wrote:

if you only have claws there is no penalty for the off attack, but if you have an bite or use an weapon and a claw attacks you will need to use multiattack feat if you bite and use 2 claws and two weapon fighting feet if you use a weapon with a claw attack. This is how most monsters that have natural weapon attacks are made.

No, this is not true.

When you make a full attack, you can attack with ALL of your Primary weapons (bites and claws are primary) with no penalty or feat requirement whatsoever. You can ALSO attack with all of your Secondary weapons, but they take a -5 penalty to hit and only add half your Strength modifier to damage.

If you want to make an attack with a normal weapon, you can also add any natural attacks that weren't taken up by the weapon (i.e. if you swing a sword in your right hand, you can't use the claw on your right hand), but they then take a -5 to hit and add only half your Strength modifier in damage.

In your example, you'd attack:

+7/+7 and deal 1d4+4/1d4+4 damage. If you also had a bite attack, it'd be +7/+7/+7 for 1d4+4/1d4+4/1d6+4 damage.

If you got a secondary attack, like say a tail slap, you're attack sequence would be +7/+7/+7/+2 for 1d4+4/1d4+4/1d6+4/1d6+2 damage.

If you then decided to make an attack with a longsword, you couldn't use one of your claws. Your attack sequence would then be +7/+2/+2/+2 for 1d8+4/1d4+2/1d6+2/1d6+2 damage.

[Satchmo]

Here is a link that helps explain that mplindustries is correct:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Natural-Attacks

[mplindustries]

Satchmo wrote:

Here is a link that helps explain that mplindustries is correct:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Natural-Attacks

Oops, I forgot to link that before. Let me do it now.

Natural Attacks

[Booksy]

Should also note, the Multiattack feat reduces your penalties on secondary attacks, so if you have a few its worth making them land more often.

[blackbloodtroll]

You would only need Multiattack if you planned on combining those natural attacks with a manufactured weapon attack, or unarmed strike.

Otherwise, you attack with all Primary Natural Attacks, all at Full BAB, all at full strength to damage.

[mplindustries]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

You would only need Multiattack if you planned on combining those natural attacks with a manufactured weapon attack, or unarmed strike.

No, you still don't need Multiattack for that. If you want to make natural attacks alongside manufactured weapon attacks or unarmed strikes, you simply take a -5 penalty to all the natural attacks and add only half your strength modifier to the damage.

Seriously, all Multiattack does is reduce the penalty from using Secondary weapons (or using natural weapons along with normal weapons, which makes them function as Secondaries) from a -5 to a -2. That's it. It offers no permissions of any sort.

[blackbloodtroll]

mplindustries wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

You would only need Multiattack if you planned on combining those natural attacks with a manufactured weapon attack, or unarmed strike.

No, you still don't need Multiattack for that.

By need, I didn't mean for it to be possible, but to reduce penalties when doing so.

I know the rest.

[Seranov]

That -3 is pretty painful. I'd say you have a pretty big need for it... maybe not a "I need to eat, drink and sleep to survive," but a "I need these tickets to my favorite band's concert."

[plober]

As far as I understand, if I have an Eilodon with the following evolutions:
* Limbs (arms)
* Claws (1d4 each)
* Bite (1d6)
* Sting (1d4)
* Slam (1d8)
* Gore (1d6)
Then the Eildon would have every attack (capped by the Max. Attacks per level) at full BAB + Str bonus (since all ar Primary attacks).
More if he gets Haste ;)

If the eilodon wields a weapon, he foregoes a claw attack (or both, if he is using a two-handed weapon), attacking with it at full BAB + Str (and possibly receiving additional attacks due to high BAB) but reducing every natural attack to secondary (usually -5 to BAB and 1/2 Str bonus).

You can also enhance all the natural Attacks at the same time with any amount of Energy Attacks; there's no limit besides Evolution points.

Note to minimaxers: focusing solely on offensive powers renders your Eilodon a Glass Cannon. Don't.

[Nefreet]

I believe you'd need another Limbs evolution in order to support that Slam, and a Tail evolution in order to support that Sting.

Though I just created a brand new Summoner for PFS, so my comprehension of Eidolons is far from complete right now.