i really wish goblin wasnt a pc choice... too many goblin builds...its getting old like dervish dance magus'sMiss the Drow Rangers?
Well I think Drow has been taken over by Dhampir....
I was, however, ecstatic when the 2nd Darkness AP came out with the NO DROW PCs thing.... now that it's retconned Drow Paladins everywhere, really??? sheeesh.
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...its getting old like dervish dance magus's
Are you also going to complain about all the fighters and barbarians with 2-hand weapon builds? They are far more common than the magus dervish dancer.
Magus builds tend to favor dervish dance for one reason. The style meshes perfectly with the classes limitations.
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All the dervish dance crying is getting pathetic. Its like complaining classes with on hit damage (SA, Smite evil and so on) favor builds that have many hits. High STR builds favor 2handers.
Of course someone that must fight with a free hand will favor what works well with it.
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I love using this quote for tabletop "tanks" who try to draw "aggro".
"Kill The Finger Wagglers!"
Ironically enough, it's from Everquest 2. Anyone who treats my table like an MMO is going to be surprised. My monsters aren't MOB's and they certainly won't line up to die in a way you feel is appropriate.
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i really wish goblin wasnt a pc choice... too many goblin builds...its getting old like dervish dance magus'sMiss the Drow Rangers?Well I think Drow has been taken over by Dhampir....
I was, however, ecstatic when the 2nd Darkness AP came out with the NO DROW PCs thing.... now that it's retconned Drow Paladins everywhere, really??? sheeesh.
Yes, because there are SOOOO many Drow Paladins everywhere now. >.>
I thought this was always "rush to smash the squishies first" tactical game?
Strategy works both ways. I'm just saying those MMO terms might not apply to a tabletop game. They certainly won't be observed at any game I've ever played or run. There's no "Pathfinder Taunt Hotkey" that I've ever seen.
Earthdawn had a taunt ability to one of their classes... I always kinda liked that mechanic.
But I see what you are saying with the mob/aggro thing.... it's a dumb AI mechanic.
Usually, when attacking, I choose the easiest targets to drop first, trying to use mobility and positioning to avoid the heavy hitters until we can swarm him.
Maybe having the spell caster use movement/battle field control to slow him down.
That would be the opposite of "mob aggro"
I've done that...but only because I can never roll over a 4.....EVER. I used to have this dude's five year old roll for me. But one time he started lying about 20s (the fifth one gave it away) he was going so many cheers and positive feed back about rolling 20s, every time he threw the dice he just said "20" so he could be the hero again.... it was really sad telling him he couldn't roll the dice anymore.... he was heart broken.
Except now you have to stand in the enemy's square to attack.tiny? goblins are small not tiny.Reduce person.
It does for a dex build what enlarge person does for a strength build.
+2 AC, +2 to-hit, no change in average damage.
and dance
yea im a big inquisitor fan.... but i love magus too.... ack... ugh.... I cant choose... what do you call a gamer that cant choose a character? a PolyGAMist?
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From having played both, I would suggest this form of comparison instead:
The Magus can enhance his To Hit, Nova (uber damage boosts), and AC all on the fly with a much faster and action economical system. He adjusts better on the fly, deciding on which actions to spend doing what, to when, and how he needs it. Does he need to cast and do Spell Combat, plus enhance his AC with his Arcane Pool? Yes, and he can change it from one combat round to the next with very little difficulty.
On the other hand, the Inquisitor can take time to prep, and enhance his AC, his To Hit, his Damage, add Bane, add a Judgement, etc and do a redonkulous amount of damage per hit and be tough as nails doing it. He can lay down some serious beat stick, heal himself, and keep going far better than the Magus (in my opinion.) What he really lacks though, is the ability to swap out most buffs and boosts quickly and efficiently.
Both tank well, sometimes so well that you don't really NEED a full BAB fighter/tank.
I prefer the Inquisitor.
That opinion is jaded because of being able to cast divine spells without prep. That is just sexy as hell.
I'm not sure how the Kensai will handle the fight after the 8 or so rounds of using up all his nova spells (at level 5)...
That's the trick.. don't nova all the time!
There are times I simply attack and use Arcane Mark t get my "touch spell" attack in. Yes I not dealing OMFG damage but remember that switching grips on a weapon is a non action. (and being able to send a message to your enemies.. much like Zorro is kind of sweet)
Using power attack and furious focus you only suffer a -2 to hit with your first attack and then suffer a -3 (or more at later levels) with your spell strike attack.
Use a Katana Two-Handed attack, then cast Arcane Mark and your spellstrike attack in
Now I have never had an issue with GM's but if I did play with a GM who was restricting the switching of grips on a weapon, you can always take the Trait Magical Lineage with Arcane Mark and take the still spell feat.
Yes I know it sounds like a TOTAL waste but it allows you, regardless of the GM, to go two-handed grip on a weapon, cast you 0 level spell, and get your spellstrike attack in.
Heck it makes taking only 2 levels of Magus worth something
Thanks guys. From my own character creation attempts, at level 5 with a 20-point buy a Kensai has about equal AC as a buffed up Inquisitor.....
Now let me help you get frustrated and bash your head on a table...
a half-orc city raised Inquisitor... who follows Erastil and takes the Feather sub-domain.
Not only do get 1/2 your level to Perception you get an animal companion. with the 1/2 level added to Intimidate and monster lore from your race.
now add Boon Companion, Power Attack, and Cornugon Smash
A tank with the ability to demoralize anyone they power attack as a free action, in heavy armor, backed up by a pouncing large cat or tripling large wolf is NOTHING to laugh at.
and yes that ^^^^ is my secondary character.
Except now you have to stand in the enemy's square to attack.tiny? goblins are small not tiny.Reduce person.
It does for a dex build what enlarge person does for a strength build.
+2 AC, +2 to-hit, no change in average damage.
And your armor and shield bonuses to AC (aside from the enhancement part) are now halved. Which may or may not wipe out that +2 AC gain.
tiny? goblins are small not tiny.
Never said they were - but reduce (preferably permanent) makes them so.
Except now you have to stand in the enemy's square to attack.tiny? goblins are small not tiny.Reduce person.
It does for a dex build what enlarge person does for a strength build.
+2 AC, +2 to-hit, no change in average damage.
Which works perfectly well with the goblins ability to leave a flame trail and spring attack = ).
Well, you could see the Magus as a Soviet BT Tank, whilst an Inquisitor as a German Tiger II Tank.
BT? referring to which tank?
Tiger was both heavily armored and had a big gun.... soviets were known to be small fast and agile (at least in the Tiger II era) I'm not sure I understand the comparison?
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i really wish goblin wasnt a pc choice... too many goblin builds...its getting old like dervish dance magus'sYou won't be happy unless everyone's playing a Human Fighter, will you?
...But that is how you can run a Fighter with 30 AC at level 1, 31 if they are taller than you, and give +1 to all the party rolls, as well as +3 AC (Luck) to adjacent party members....
...But that is how you can run a Fighter with 30 AC at level 1, 31 if they are taller than you, and give +1 to all the party rolls, as well as +3 AC (Luck) to adjacent party members....i really wish goblin wasnt a pc choice... too many goblin builds...its getting old like dervish dance magus'sYou won't be happy unless everyone's playing a Human Fighter, will you?
Ok step away from the keyboard.. it's ok...
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Ok step away from the keyboard.. it's ok......But that is how you can run a Fighter with 30 AC at level 1, 31 if they are taller than you, and give +1 to all the party rolls, as well as +3 AC (Luck) to adjacent party members....i really wish goblin wasnt a pc choice... too many goblin builds...its getting old like dervish dance magus'sYou won't be happy unless everyone's playing a Human Fighter, will you?
But... Its like a tank... You run up, take all attacks of opportunities, and yell, "I'm helpful, I'm helpful!"
Magi gets the heavy armro down the line, but Inquisitors get the Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Bluff skills. They can taunt, feint, and goad enemies into attacking them. Consider this:
You are a BBEG up against a bunch of adventurers. You have this heavily armored, hard hitting Magus in front of you and a bunch of weaker support character surrounding him. Your natural instinct is to run away from the heavy hitter who you can barely hit anyway and to instead cut down all the weaker adventurers that are making him stronger. In fact, the harder he hits you, the LESS likely you are to face him head on.
No one in there right mind would sit and take hits from the strongest looking guy in the group when they can take out all the weaker guys first. A "tank" character needs to be smart and lead the enemy on, otherwise the bad guy is just going to stop attacking him and go for an easier target.
It comes up much later (level 15, iirc), but a Magus can actually add bane as part of his arcana buff. And Holy (or other alignment) as well.
And spell combat means the magus not only can pump out more offense, he can also, say.... give himself mirror image while still full attacking.
And your armor and shield bonuses to AC (aside from the enhancement part) are now halved. Which may or may not wipe out that +2 AC gain.Except now you have to stand in the enemy's square to attack.tiny? goblins are small not tiny.Reduce person.
It does for a dex build what enlarge person does for a strength build.
+2 AC, +2 to-hit, no change in average damage.
I was not aware of this effect. Where is it in the rules? I'd like to read about it. Does this include armour and shield bonuses from spells or magic items? If not then a kensai goblin shouldn't have much to worry about
I prefer a kensai magus to an inquisitor, but one thing seems to be escaping everyone's attention. While a kensai has no armor prof, the only penalty is if the armor has an ACP it get's applied to the attack roll. So, a darkleaf cloth studded armor +1 has NO ACP, 5% SF, and the same AC as mage armor, except it's always on (not as good vs incorporeal, however). Your AC gets that much better as you increase the enchantment.
Edit: Yeah, still have 5% SF, but worth it IMO since you save a spell slot.
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I prefer a kensai magus to an inquisitor, but one thing seems to be escaping everyone's attention. While a kensai has no armor prof, the only penalty is if the armor has an ACP it get's applied to the attack roll. So, a darkleaf cloth studded armor +1 has NO ACP, NO SF, and the same AC as mage armor, except it's always on (not as good vs incorporeal, however). Your AC gets that much better as you increase the enchantment.
Dark leaf will not drop ASF below 5%. If you are willing to accept spell failure on 1in20, go for it.
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Here's an interesting thought - would a high perception and initiative make a difference in the effectiveness of a tank? I bring this up because I play an inquisitor with high perception and initiative, meaning I'm rarely surprised, and usually go first. This allows me to get in the bad guy's face before he moves, thus restricting his movements, and often forcing him to deal with me instead of immediately attacking the squishier members of the party.
Not sure if a magus could pull this off or not - don't think they have perception as a class skill (though they could get it via a trait), and they don't have the built in initiative potential of an inquisitor.
Thoughts?
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I think he's confusing the "size modifiers" to armor cost with the bonus they provide.And your armor and shield bonuses to AC (aside from the enhancement part) are now halved. Which may or may not wipe out that +2 AC gain.I was not aware of this effect. Where is it in the rules? I'd like to read about it. Does this include armour and shield bonuses from spells or magic items? If not then a kensai goblin shouldn't have much to worry about
He's not. Armor bonuses from equipment are halved for creatures that are Tiny or smaller. It is, among other things, noted in the asterisk on the same table that lists the cost differences for armor for various sizes of creatures.
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He's not. Armor bonuses from equipment are halved for creatures that are Tiny or smaller. It is, among other things, noted in the asterisk on the same table that lists the cost differences for armor for various sizes of creatures.I think he's confusing the "size modifiers" to armor cost with the bonus they provide.And your armor and shield bonuses to AC (aside from the enhancement part) are now halved. Which may or may not wipe out that +2 AC gain.I was not aware of this effect. Where is it in the rules? I'd like to read about it. Does this include armour and shield bonuses from spells or magic items? If not then a kensai goblin shouldn't have much to worry about
So, it would not affect a Kensai.