Is the use of a bow with zen archer count as an unarmed attack? The race Oread get a +1/3 crit confirm on unarmed attacks. Not sure if that would count towards a bow user.
Absolutely not. A bow is a weapon. An unarmed attack is an unarmed attack.
Eventually Zen Archers can use their unarmed attack damage instead of base arrow damage, but even that is still not an actual unarmed attack.
Cool thanks. 1 more question. A lvl 3 they can use wisdom bonus to hit. Is there a feat somewhere that would allow for damage to be dealt with anything other than the strength stat? Im trying to group into 3 main stats vs 4 is possible. Thanks!
I doubt it.
You really only need Wisdom on a Zen Archer. 14 Str is probably the most you'd ever need before magical items and such.
but still your bow damage come from strength correct? even as a zen archer?
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Your bonus damage does, yes.
But there's also Weapon Specialization (which you get for free), enhancement bonuses on your bow, and the fact that you're shooting like a bazillion arrows a round.
Having a decent strength is nice, but you don't really need more than 14, especially when pretty much everything you can do is focused around Wisdom.
im building wifes toon and play saturday in a home brewed game. she rolled good and the stat cap is nice. she rolled 19,18,18,,16,16,15. plus you can go -2 to one stat to get +1 in another. stat cap is 24. so with that what u think I should start with? plus i get to choose from imp init or toughness as a free feat.
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18 Str
16 Dex
18 Con
16 Int
19 Wis
15 Cha
If you want, you could probably take points out of Int and Cha to boost Wisdom. Sorta wish I could play a game with stats like that, too. ;)
Grab Imp Init, as going first helps you get into a good position to pepper things with arrows. Toughness isn't bad, but she won't want to spend too much time in melee (though staying at ~30 feet to use Point Blank Shot doesn't hurt).
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WIS>STR/CON/DEX>INT>CHA
That is how I would allocate stats with highest in WIS and lowest in CHA.
Give. Your stats and system I'd get WIS to 24 and the rest really doesn't matter.
I'd probably take Toughness regardless at level 1 so you may as well pick up improved initiative for free.
Here's the thing, most character classes have to dedicate all of their feats to Archery. Zen archers don't. You get most of them for free or as class abilities. Heck, you don't even need Point Blank Shot so you can save a feat there.
Play a race with Darkvision as ZAM make good scouts too.
I was playing around with:
24+2(race)26 wis
20+2 (race) Str
16 con
16 dex
11 int
8-2 (race)6 cha
Is that too over the top? LOL
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I was playing around with:
24+2(race)26 wis
20+2 (race) Str
16 con
16 dex
11 int
8-2 (race)6 chaIs that too over the top? LOL
Your starting stats are so over the top I can't even grasp what it would be like to play with them.
But that's close to how I'd arrange them. I may actually sacrifice some STR to have higher INT and get more skills. I like skills. Having 6 skill point to distribute each level makes me happy.
It all depends on what you & the wife have in mind for this character. Just know this - with your stats you can build any character you want and be effective.
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Pretty much exactly what Krodjin said.
At this point, you're so far beyond the normal that it's hard to even really say what you should do.
I mean, most of the games I play are 20 or 25 PB, but you're talking like... Super Epic High Fantasy level characters. It's just so far outside the experience of most of us that we don't really know what to tell you.
It's just a wee bit riduculous.
And by "a wee bit" I mean "oh god what are you doing".
I almost peed my pants when I read this! Yea u can see why I want to get this right! I made a gunslinger for myself....can't tell you how awesome he is! also forgot to say we start at lvl 3 lol. Dont think my wife is the skills type person, she wants to do uber damage and leave the roleplay up to others lol
Pretty much exactly what Krodjin said.
At this point, you're so far beyond the normal that it's hard to even really say what you should do.
I mean, most of the games I play are 20 or 25 PB, but you're talking like... Super Epic High Fantasy level characters. It's just so far outside the experience of most of us that we don't really know what to tell you.
Yea ive been playing pathfinders society where there were ton of rules that limited you in all kinds of ways! So im happy to try this!
To top it off, I also had the GM convinced in letting me make a 20 point custom race LOL, can you imagine that!!!
Im really excited about playing it though!
I need to pick 2 traits now. I took Reactionary for the +2 init. What would be a good 2nd monk trait? Thanks
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I like Wisdom in the Flesh for high WIS Monks. Lets you use WIS for any STR/DEX/CON skill and makes it a class skill.
I usually choose Acrobatics, but if I am playing a character with skill points to spare ill take Disable Device.
I also like the Honored Fist of the Society trait that gives a boost to Ki Pool.
Hunters Eye (Faction trait: Andoran) is good for Archers.
Any trait that makes a skill you want a class skill or gives a bonus to a skill you want maxed is a good choice too.
Play a race with Darkvision as ZAM make good scouts too.
Dwarf with Minesight gets 90 ft. of darkvision. There's also a feat Deep Sight that extends darkvision to 120 ft--just outside the first range increment of a composite longbow.
I don't see the point in having Wis over Dex on the Zen Archer. We're starting a lvl one game soon, and our zen archer will have +2 to hit starting out. Sure, he'll even out at level 3, but still. The dex archer is faster and more resitant to combat manouvers, and all he's giving up is 2 ki points, which he gets more and more of as he levels. And instead of wisdom of the flesh, he could take something that makes him better instead of something that puts him on par. He just accused me of being a min/maxer, when I've never actually ran a min/maxed character. Switching am 18 with a 14 insn't min/maxing.
Plus, I don't know how I'm going to react in character when he finally learns how to actually hit something out of nowhere. It'd be like something out of an after school special. "The kids at school said I'd never be a great archer, but I stuck with it and showed them :D".
I fail to see how it's better. It's more like... the same, except you trade ki points for initiative, dex based skills (except one), and the trait that you could have used instead.
It does seem a lot more minor though, now that I know that wisdom goes into CMD. So that's cool. It's almost splitting hairs.
I'm just worried that it's gonna be a long couple months for my buddy. We'll probaby get to lvl 2, switch to our 4e game for several sessions, then switch back, have a couple sessions before we get to lvl 3, then switch again. That's a long time to be a dedicated archer that can barely shoot, when we're lucky to get in one session a week (and with 10 strength, so when he does hit... d8. The scorpion whip kensai magus will be doing more damage, and he gets 1 spell per day).
I think you should go Wis >> Dex = Str > Con > Int >> Cha.
Dex is still buffing Reflex, Initiative, AC, and skills, and archery feats you may want that you can't just ignore pre-reqs via monk bonus feats (like Deadly Aim) will have dexterity requirements. So I would not dump it by any stretch. It just takes a large back seat to wisdom, as do the other stats.
Oread is a great Zen Archer race, be sure to grab the crystalline form, ferrous growth, and granite skin variant racial features.
For boosting damage, note there is also the Noble Scion feat (*not* to be confused with THIS Noble Scion feat which is completely different!) to get +2 damage by being from the noble house Narikopolus....whatever that is. You can only take it at 1st level, but since you (technically; flurry makes things weird) don't have the BAB +1 to qualify for Deadly Aim at level 1 and begin the game with Flurry and Precise Shot, starting feats are pretty open for whatever.
If you don't want to wait for things to come to fruitiion, you do NOT want to make a Sohei. Sohei is better than zen archer late game, when he has flurry + rapid shot + manyshot running. But he can't flurry with a bow at all till level 6 and he gets absolutely no bonus feat support to help archery, which requires a large glut of upfront feats to be good. And you'll also be more MAD, as you will still be using dex for bow attacks. With a Sohei, the early levels will be tough as an archer, it's the late game where you surpass the zen archer.
You could also consider a Fighter or Ranger archer. They and Zen Archer and Sohei all have their merits and drawbacks, none is noticeably stronger or weaker than the others.
- Zen Archer and Sohei rely on full attacking even more than normal archers (because it buffs their BAB) and have no fancy combat tricks or spells and thus can be kind of boring to play in combat, though they get some skills.
- Fighter can be archer archetype to get some ranged maneuvers of questionable use (until level 11 when they get good, which is also about the time monster CMDs explode....) and is the best suited to grab Imp. Snap Shot for battlefield control, making him the most tactically interesting choice and highest damage per shot, but you'll have no skills and will lose on damage per round to the monks slightly (maybe....they'll have a large attack bonus advantage, which might nullify the extra attacks the monks get when used with deadly aim, on top of gloves of dueling and weapon training).
- Ranger has the most trouble getting feats early on (besides Sohei) and will lose out on damage per round when not fighting a favored enemy / using Instant Enemy spell.... and even then may still lose out on DPR to the others. But! You get the most skills of the 4, you get SPELLS, and you get a free meat shield (the animal companion), making ranger the most varied and interesting of the 4, IMO.
It's also worth noting: Zen Archer and Ranger can get Improved Precise Shot at 6. Fighter has to wait till 11, Sohei has to wait till 15. I don't know about you, but I <3 IPS forever and always. Five levels early is awesome.
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Imp. Precise Shot at 6th level takes on even greater importance in Society play. Eating that additional -4 penalty (+4 to AC technically) for basically you entire career just hurts too much IMO.
Another thing that I just thought of is that Clustered Shots is probably more valuable to the Monk then it would for the Ranger & Fighter. As StreamoftheSky pointed out above, the Fighter & Ranger are pretty much guaranteed to do more damage per arrow then the Monk is (who relies more on volume).