So I unfortunately forsee my wizard possibly needing to beat down a cleric. How would you do it?
So I unfortunately forsee my wizard possibly needing to beat down a cleric. How would you do it?
What level?
Tell us about your wizard.
Tell us about the cleric.
Is it a set playing field, or can we shape it?
What's our motivation here?
Hold person + Stick.
Exploit his poor reflex save with Create Pit, and then drop summoned monsters on him until he dies. Send in the summons first, so he's too occupied to throw spells at you.
==Aelryinth
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chess!
You will need to exploit a poor reflex save. But be wary. If he sees it coming then you'll basically be trying to puncha brick wall while it approaches you and stabs you to death with a pike.
The title of this thread is misleading! I was ready with the popcorn!
The first thing is to make sure he does not know you are coming. A cleric who knows you are coming and knows about your character, and has a chance to prepare is going to be a nightmare. Clerics have access to their whole spell list and have some of the best defensive spells in the book. If you are a fire mage and he has a chance to get his defenses up you are at a huge disadvantage.
Second thing is to chose the battle field and don't attack him in his temple. Lure him to a place that gives you an advantage. The spell fly has been suggested and while that is good advice attacking from the top of a cliff can be just as good. Also prepare some non magical surprises. I know that may seem like blasphemy to a wizard but use what every resource you can.
Third use a diversion to make him waste some of his spells. Hiring some thugs to attack him on his way to where you have lured him. Maybe even going so far to lure him to a spot and have your thugs attack him and let him waste his resources beating them. Attack him on the way back after the duration of his buffs and protections have worn off.
But the most important thing is to find out all you can about him. Does he have a ring of fire protection? Who are his allies and followers. What are his domains and what spells and abilities do they grant him?
Last thing to keep in mind is that clerics have all the summon monster spells you do so factor that in as well. If you are flying he can summon a flying creature to attack you.
chess!
Yes, definitely chess. A wizard will have the upper hand in a battle of intelligence.
Design Manager
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Just out of curiosity, what school do you specialize in? Just wondering where your character's natural strengths are. My general advice would be to kill his movement via pits or web, and then take advantage of his low reflex and the generally superior range of wizard spells and hammer him with blasty evocation type spells.
I was expecting something suitably amazing to come out of this, much like Baby vs. Rhino or Velociraptor vs. Me.
How serious are you about this? Are you in the middle of a campaign where you are engaging in encounters, or are you loligagging around in town wasting your time on wine, women and song?
If you, as a caster, want to take down another caster, it is best to tackle the other caster when your spells are fully available and his spells are mostly spent. It wouldn't hurt if he was also already down in hit points. This is easier to arrange if you are dealing with combat encounters. Of course this might put you at risk of other party members intervening too.
If your only option is a straight-up fight with both of your characters full of spells, then your best bet is probably greater invisibility, surprise attack, debuffing and then save or suck spells, or else exploiting a low reflex save.
Of course another option is to settle your differences like civilized folk.
We need more information. "Beat down a cleric" doesn't tell us nearly enough. Are you talking about an NPC cleric? A PC (illadvised, if so)? What god? Any friends or congregation? What level are you? What level is the cleric? Is the cleric preparing too? In other words, what's the deal?
Dot.
Wizard = Neutral, level 7 Transmuter (Enhancement) specialist focusing on buffing and battlefield control.
Cleric = Elven, Chaotic(?) Good, 8th level with one domain in Community second is unknown.
Everything else is up to you, books used are core, apg, um, uc.
Pick the battlefield. Establish control. These are the essentials of any Wizard's plan of attack on a powerful opponent. Realistically, it should be in EVERYONE's plan of attack.
Shattering the holy symbol is a good first step once you've established some kind of control. This can lock down a good number of the cleric's abilities.
Enervation. Repeatedly. There's no saving throw and it is -1 to -4 on all saves with every cast if you can hit with your ray. Hint: you almost always will hit with your ray.
Touch of Idiocy. Another no-save, brutal spell. This can remove the cleric's ability to cast entirely. Touch attack, so that's dangerous. If you have a Lesser Reach rod, so much the better.
Edit: Now that you've provided a little more info, make sure you have Protection from Good running.
Still don't know if the cleric is a PC or NPC
shatter doesn't work on magic objects. any cleric of 8th level or higher should have at least some sort of magical holy symbol. even if just casting continual flame on it.
Still don't know if the cleric is a PC or NPC
PC
Who's launching the attack? Basically, if you're going to ambush him, you win. If you need to be prepared for an attack at any time, you'll need a completely different strategy.
I agree with Serisan that "Enervate until dead" is a great option.
Also, Spiked Pit or Acid Pit are good spells to keep in mind. Clerics generally have very low reflex saves and aren't any good at climbing. Unless he has easy access to flight through at item, or Air Walk memorized, he may really suck in a pit. You may even want to stay completely out of his line of sight by dropping him into a pit, then summoning monsters (with flight or acid resistance, depending on which pit you chose) to kill him. It would negate most of his ability to attack you and, should he emerge, he'll be seriously beat up. You could also drop a Stinking Cloud in there, causing him to make a FORT save every round or be nauseated.
Hmmm, a Dretch is a summon monster III, immune to poison (stinking cloud), acid resist 10.
So here's one recipe:
- Cast Acid Pit.
- Summon Monster IV (1d3+1 augmented dretches).
- Stinking Cloud.
- Simmer until done.
- Add dretch to taste. (Summon Monster III)
- If prey escapes, garnish with Scorching Ray.
Still don't know if the cleric is a PC or NPCPC
So... how does the rest of the party feel about the situation? Will they intervene? Do they just want to watch? Do they care WHERE this showdown will happen? Like, for example, right after a big fight when the cleric's spells are exhausted and he might already be injured?
What does "beat down" even mean in this context? Killing the PC? Incapacitating the PC (who would probably never ever heal your PC again)?
Unless this is a situation in which you somehow foresee the cleric being dominated against the rest of the party, this would appear to be a planned prelude to one or more players leaving the gaming group with bad feelings all around.
How do you anticipate this ending in a good way?
Who's launching the attack? Basically, if you're going to ambush him, you win. If you need to be prepared for an attack at any time, you'll need a completely different strategy.
I agree with Serisan that "Enervate until dead" is a great option.
** spoiler omitted **
Also, Spiked Pit or Acid Pit are good spells to keep in mind. Clerics generally have very low reflex saves and aren't any good at climbing. Unless he has easy access to flight through at item, or Air Walk memorized, he may really suck in a pit. You may even want to stay completely out of his line of sight by dropping him into a pit, then summoning monsters (with flight or acid resistance, depending on which pit you chose) to kill him. It would negate most of his ability to attack you and, should he emerge, he'll be seriously beat up. You could also drop a Stinking Cloud in there, causing him to make a FORT save every round or be nauseated.
Hmmm, a Dretch is a summon monster III, immune to poison (stinking cloud), acid resist 10.
So here's one recipe:
...
- Cast Acid Pit.
- Summon Monster IV (1d3+1 augmented dretches).
- Stinking Cloud.
- Simmer until done.
- Add dretch to taste. (Summon
Softening with an Enervate is definitely going to be my go-to start for this sort of combat.
If you go the Pit route, another option is to Stone Shape over the top of it in a cheese-grater shape. This saves some cu ft of stone and leaves you with a nice mess. This is nice because it can't be dispelled. You'll have 17 cu ft to work with, which you can basically say is a 3 inch thick semi-porous cover for the pit. Cast again for another 3 inches. If you prefer the long and drawn out solution, make it large enough for the cleric to fit once the pit expires, but fill in the holes so he suffocates. Oh no, the pit spell expired and the floor is rising...
Summon Monster for Lantern Archons. Deathlasers, HO!
Leave a nice letter in his pack with multiple castings of Explosive Runes before you decide to throw down. Also, prep yourself with False Life. The extra HP will be a great boon in case of one of the few nukes that will genuinely hurt you from the cleric list.