Haven't read the whole thread, but Kelsey, are you using the actual d20 Modern Rules for damage, where you have a Massive Damage Threshhold (MAS) equal to your Constitution? Whenever your MAS is exceeded, you have to make a Fortitude save or die (I'd suggest save or dying to be a little less brutal), or save or be unconscious if you are dealing non-lethal damage.
If you want the same effect, without the Insta-kill, have the MAS check failure result in -1 Hp, Unconscious and Dying. This means both Hero's and Mooks can be dropped by a good hit, just like the base system, and without help, they are likely dead. The winning side in an engagement gets a chance to save their wounded after the battle.
My group really liked this change, It kept things dangerous and fast paced, without having the need to roll up new characters every 3 weeks. Also, it provides good RP opportunities.
What about a wound/vitality system where a MAS check indicates a round that hit despite not being critical, and the effect here being for if you fail a save upon taking a wound?
Fire arms rule the day on the wide open battle field, but in any city or jungle, there will be ample areas where encounter distances and lines of sight will be less than the initial move distances. One thing that doesn't seem to be represented by the rules is that it is very hard to shoot someone who is closer than five feet away from you, and relatively easy to get shot with your own gun in a grappling struggle, unless you have special training. (It's why cops don't like people to get within 20 feet of them if they have their guns drawn.)Those are already represented in the rules. Unless you're a Gunslinger, you provoke an AoO for using a firearm when you're in melee range of an enemy (that's 5 feet). Using a rifle against an adjacent target inflicts a -4 penalty to hit (unless they're prone, IIRC).
Handguns are small, so you could easily grapple and force someone to shoot themselves, but it rarely happens because people who don't have Improved Grapple are scared of provoking AoOs ... from pistol-whips. (Also, forcing someone to shoot themselves might provoke an AoO if they have Combat Martial Arts...)
IME, massive damage actually made melee stronger, because it's much easier to boost melee damage than firearm damage, even though firearm damage starts higher (in Modern).
Well, the way I was planning to work it is that ranged characters can AOO, but there is a 20 ft range in which a melee character can charge without provoking one unless the guy with the gun has a readied action.
IME, massive damage actually made melee stronger, because it's much easier to boost melee damage than firearm damage, even though firearm damage starts higher (in Modern).
It does make melee stronger, and in particular makes nonlethal damage dealing stronger. It makes all damage dealt more potentially more brutal.
It's not that MAS makes firearms stronger, it's that getting rid of MAS makes firearms weaker, because that base damage that is higher is more meaningless in a system without it, indeed especially because you can add fewer bonuses to it.
Alternately, you can try to use rules like in Paizo's firearms rules, where firearms hit touch AC at close range, but then you have to figure out, in a modern-based world, how anti-ballistic armor like kevlar bodysuits fits in.
Alternately, you can try to use rules like in Paizo's firearms rules, where firearms hit touch AC at close range, but then you have to figure out, in a modern-based world, how anti-ballistic armor like kevlar bodysuits fits in.
This works if using a gun on an adjacent enemy is still hard.
For armor, I'd say go with armor as damage reduction. Seeing as how absorption is how modern armor works, this makes perfect sense. It also meshes well with a wound/vitality system.
Well, I do suppose that would make everything a touch attack.
Dex to firearm damage. I reckon it has to happen.
What about firearm damage hitting flatfooted instead?
Might work if defense bonuses are in use.
Well, I've come to a decision on this project. The D20 system is not the best system for it. The system I'm imagining doesn't emphasize collecting magic items or iterative attacks, and combat is fast paced and brutal. There isn't so much math inherent with leveling up, and magic is more Skyrim than Golarion. To turn D20 into this would be a lot harder than starting from scratch, so I believe that is what I'll do. Now is not the time for something that ambitious, however. I'll be taking down ideas as they come to mind, but it'll be a long time before I compile them.
That's a tough decision to make. I admired your interest in trying to do something like this, but some systems just work better than others in this respect.
Hope you still share your progress.
I tried to make my own system back when I was playing advanced/2nd edition. I could not stand the negative AC mess anymore. As soon as 3rd edition came out, there was no need for my reinvention of the wheel. Good luck, you need it.
Maybe look into adding in the Saga Systems features?
What about a wound/vitality system where a MAS check indicates a round that hit despite not being critical, and the effect here being for if you fail a save upon taking a wound?
I think that would be too much book-keeping in the middle of battle. Use one system or the other, not both. I run my E6 Pathfinder Home-brew with W&V, and I can't Imagine making the game even more deadly by lowering MAS to you're CON score.
Honestly, I really liked the Con=MAS score with a failed save dropping you too -1 and bleeding out. Its super easy for both players and DM, but keeps firearms (and ranged weapons in general) a threat. One thing to keep in mind is that it worked well in d20 Modern because it was a Low-Magic Setting. (You couldn't even cast a 1st Level Spell until 4th Level).
If you use this rule with base Pathfinder Classes, a 4th level Dragon Sorcerer is going to be forcing MAS checks with Burning hands and Scorching Ray. At 6th Level he would be doing the same to entire squads of troops with Fireball (So if you want to give Blasting a HUGE buff, this does it).
Well, I've come to a decision on this project. The D20 system is not the best system for it. The system I'm imagining doesn't emphasize collecting magic items or iterative attacks, and combat is fast paced and brutal. There isn't so much math inherent with leveling up, and magic is more Skyrim than Golarion. To turn D20 into this would be a lot harder than starting from scratch, so I believe that is what I'll do. Now is not the time for something that ambitious, however. I'll be taking down ideas as they come to mind, but it'll be a long time before I compile them.
We managed to kinda do this by playing an E6 Pathfinder Game (In a Homebrew, Post-Apoc Setting), with Wounds&Vigor and Words of Power for the magic system. With that many Home-Rules and Alternate Systems in play, the game hardly plays like Pathfinder any more (which was what we wanted).
If you want to avoid magic item reliance, perhaps try to add an inherent bonus system like the ones of the Forums, later 4e D&D, and the Modern path. That's how I'm trying to get around the D&D "magic item christmas tree effect"
And to enforce magic a bit more, make each spell level all the more exhausting. All spells risk fatigue, then exhaustion. Higher spells cause non-lethal damage as well. Again, thank Modern Path for the idea.
As for more Skyrim approach, I suppose Spell Points (a la kit bashing the psionics system) might work a little bit. As for dual magics, not too sure. I believe that are feats for that in 3.5, dunno if they transferred to Pathfinder (balance reasons?) Personally, I prefer a more simplistic approach (like Vigors/Plasmids from BioShock. As well as ways of augmenting the plasmids via Tonics. In fact, one of the posters at GitP made a BioShock splicer style class for a contest a couple months back. It's sweet!)
Also, there are so many alt./house rules in the publications alone! For example, refined tech/war machine rules and group soldier rules in Rasputin Must Die, Environment Destruction in the Twice-Damned Prince, Kingdom Building (River Run Red), Mass Combat (War of the Riving Kings), Harrow Deck (Carrion Crown), Jade Regent for Romance and Caravans, Wake of the Watcher for Lovecraftian horror, and presumably gun duel rules in the Alkenstar module for potential apocalyptic-war and weird west themed games.
Hope this adds a little bit.
I dunno. I think something similar to Storyteller, but with better combat mechanics and without rolling handfuls of dice, might work better. No, I'm not reverse engineering Storyteller. I'm building from scratch. Still, Storyteller stands as an example of what I'm imagining.
I'm going to give a modified Pathfinder one more chance for familiarity's sake. The archetype system should come in handy in highlighting how different units train soldiers, cops, and special agents. I promise an update soon. I will not sleep until you have something.
If any of you saw the Thyressa thread over in Giantitp, those races and a few cultural details will be ported over, though I do plan to add emphasis to the positive aspects of the races so they seem less negative, and reinforce that elves have a relatively massive risk of having some degree of mental imbalance, not a virtual guarantee of having crippling mental issues.
Also, I think I need to change how I build cultures. I need to mash up more of my real world stuff, and make more stuff up. For example, over in Thyressa, I have the French, Spanish, and Italians all as separate ethnic groups in Brielle, German and Norse/Norwegian/Danish/Swedish as separate ethnic groups in Markklund, and Welsh/Briton and Scottish/Irish as separate ethnic groups in Markklund. I was also planning on having the Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese in the Pacific, alongside Hawaiians, Maori, Samoans, and a few other Polynesian groups. I also want to use Greek, Aztec, Iroquois, Slavic, West African, Caribbean/African Louisiana, and Chinook/Salish. I'm starting to think this should all be condensed into a dozen cultures, with each one having some stuff I added in. I need less real world cultural divisions, and more work on what I do have.
Okay, this update is just copied and posted data from the thread over at Giantitp, though I did redo the elves a bit, because it's morning, I've been up all night, I've had more to drink than I should have, and I want to go read a book. I'll do clever stuff after I sleep, get sober, and then drink a more appropriate amount of alcohol for creative writing.
All playable races are considered to be humans. There is no catch all race that mimics real life humans, though magni look pretty much the same as we do. Any race can crossbreed with another race. Humans of this setting age at the same rate as humans do in real life, regardless of race.
The races live together, not apart, so races from the same region tend to share a culture. I don't like giving races ability score modifiers. I feel it punishes players for creating characters who are different from the rest of their race and rewards them for creating characters who are similar to others of their race. I also feel they can encourage players to choose a race for mechanical instead of flavor reasons. Adventurers are highly likely to be outliers, so I don't see why ability scores should have modifiers to reflect racial averages when player characters are not average members of their race. For this setting, I don't think I want to use racial stats at all. I will leave race as a decisions whose only rule effect is what traits and archetypes you can take, and give everyone what the core rules offer to humans. This is especially important when it comes to elves, because I do not want to translate that race's issues into rule terms, or force players to take them on if they want to be an elf.
The redacted areas refer to specific areas of the world, and will be updated later on when I finish with the groups mentioned above.
Magni are known for having very good memories, which makes them very good at scholarly pursuits. This ability to retain knowledge is most likely the quality that allowed them to spread all over the world. They do tend to be more susceptible to poisons and diseases than other humans, which has limited the size of their population and kept them from becoming the dominant race, at least in terms of numbers.
Dragons have a deep magical lineage, with over half the race having at least one level of dragonblood sorcerer. Like magni, they don't have a high population, generally being less than 1% of the population of any given region, do to the fact that their race came later than the other human races, and began with a much smaller number of individuals. You'll find them almost anywhere, but only a few of them. The dragons of old tended to rely on their scaly hides and magic for protection more so than a efficient internal healing system, and, while today's dragons lack those scales and have weaker magic the tendency is sometimes the same.
Elves tend to have an artistic bent, though it is as likely to be towards literature, song, performing, or the like as to be towards painting, carving, sculpting, or the like. Then lean towards creativity in general, and are known for being very passionate in whatever they do. They lean towards a natural cleverness that makes many of them skilled in strategy, whether military, economic, or political. A very large number of elves have some degree of mental disorder, most often bipolar disorder, depression, sociopathy, or paranoid schizophrenia. They form addictions very easily, with alcoholism being highly common and caffeine addiction almost expected of them, and a statistically large number have a higher than average disposition towards narcissistic, hyperactive, attention seeking, or self destructive behavior. Essentially, elves have a keen but fragile mind.
A fair number of dwarves have an instinctive grasp of mechanics and the laws of science and magic, and are very good at engineering new forms of technology and spellcasting or improving upon existing ones. However, dwarves often have a tendency to develop specific interests in a few fields, and many have a hard time focusing on or retaining information about something outside those fields. Though science, mechanics, and magic are the most common disciplines for dwarves, the race produces experts in almost much every field.
Dragon history:
I'll have something up soon, but not tonight. I don't feel well, and I'm in San Jose, which is an hour bus ride and an hour walk from home. All I'll have energy for tonight is reading to form ideas for the setting. Articulation must wait for tomorrow.
I do currently have stuff to articulate when I feel better, such as a political system that makes the military a bastion of liberal attitudes, and a chaotic situation to the East that breeds heavily armed mercenaries.
Update later tonight. I know it's been several days, but I have been sitting on something.
Right now, I'm working on the Far West. Specifically, that Asian mashup I mentioned earlier (I decided to emphasize Japanese materiel, and leave the rest of the continent open if I decide I want to play with it later) and the Polynesian mashup. The Far West, a region more commonly called Minoka, is a massive collection of individual islands and archipelagos, all under the rule of the Republic of Minoka. The native culture is the Polynesian one, and the dominant culture is Japanese. There is also a sizeable Latin population.
I do have some thoughts on my Japanese culture. First off, IRL Japanese culture values rank, group harmony, and outward appearance very highly, and is rather rigid compared to, say, American culture. I went with the same general idea, with the idea that the ruling dynasty is very quick to mark those that do not conform as disgraced (in fact, they could get rather overzealous here). This marking is done by having them place their personal name before their family name (normally the family name comes first, as in IRL Japanese tradition), which indicates that one places their own selfish desires over their family's aspirations.
Minoka was eventually colonized by these people. Soon after the colony was founded, someone came up with the idea of getting rid of all those non-traditionalists over there to keep their homeland pure of those who do not follow the correct ways. This exile culture is the only Japanese inspired culture I currently plan to use. Don't expect something highly traditional. People who abided by the strict system of social ranks and behavior weren't the ones shipped off to Minoka en-mass, after all.
So the PC monks would be from these refugees. This would also explain Ninja PCs.
So the PC monks would be from these refugees. This would also explain Ninja PCs.
I was thinking of using the Ninja as a culture-neutral Special Agent class. Minoka has never had the need for a specific group of highly trained assassins. Assassinations happen, but not anywhere near that often. For Monks, the concept fits, but the class is too melee focused.
You know, I just can't get past using real world nations, cultures, and languages. It's a direction I keep gravitating towards naturally, even when I intentionally distance myself from it. I'm not even going by my stated goal of evolving a medieval setting into a modern setting, I'm going by "That looks cool, I want it". I need to abandon the facade and just make what I want to make, which is going to include the real Earth. It's also going to include a very deep decade dissonance, because I'm going to pick and choose what I like, not pick a decade and stick to it.
Minoka is still going to happen, just under a more real world name. The idea of a Japanese culture made to fit the desires of the discontented is too cool to abandon, and I think it has a place in my setting.
I am keeping the elves I wrote up, and the idea that Magni is a word for our kind of human.
I'm going to make a new thread in a few days when I have more stuff typed up, and discontinue this one. I've deviated so far from the OP that this project needs a more relevant one.
I've come to call any race that can be played as
PCs, People. Humans, elves, half orcs, and fey ponies, are all people.
I like tagging them all as human, because it explains why everybody can interbreed with so little trouble. Also, because there is no reason Homo Sapien needs to be alone.
I'm dumping a reminder here for something I plan to do rules wise. If I forget about it, I'll see it here when I pull all useable setting info out of this thread later. I'm likewise attaching two threads filled with relevant details on the magic system.
Giving spellcasters an ability score that governs their spellcasting is a practice that I would love to see go. It lets Wizards pour resources into Int while keeping everything else average, while Fighters have to keep Str, Con, and maybe Dex or Wiz high in order to be effective. Simply removing the governing ability scores from spellcasters (increasing spells per day to offset the loss of bonus spells from ability score), then attaching Int to some spell schools, Wiz to some spell schools, and Cha to some spell schools would be a positive change.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q5y2?Folding-the-divine-spells-into-arcane-mag ic
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q69o?Lets-say-a-Wizard-couldnt-create-a-magic- item
Moar notes for Kelsey
Salem very important. Witch trials led to all teh magic stuffs. Also, VERY powerful area in general (then again, so is almost all of Massachusetts), with the strongest Haunt in the world.
The Headless Horseman exists.
Scarecrow golem. Gotta happen.
New England is a federation style nation. Lost the Revolutionary War, stayed British. The colonies were eventually cut loose with trade arrangements favorable to Britain do to the problem of the colonies becoming bigger than Britain itself (with the 13 colonies under British rule and Britain later getting into it with Spain and winning Cuba and a good chunk of western North America, things got a little crazy). The other colonies also have federations.
San Francisco is even weirder than IRL. You can blame elves and/or the British.
New Orleans voodoo must be incorporated at all costs. Perfect Witch archetype.
Halloween has actual magical significance.
If you have a big enough Str bonus, your base speed will increase.
You really only need one iterative attack. It's not like the other two do much.
Full attacking should be a move action.
If magic works, those who work magic win. New Orleans would be a city state that slaves escaped to. After enough slave hunters were killed and reanimated, they stopped coming there. The same with British troops.
If magic works, those who work magic win. New Orleans would be a city state that slaves escaped to. After enough slave hunters were killed and reanimated, they stopped coming there. The same with British troops.
France is the country in charge of this one, not Britain, though either country can field it's own witches if need be. The American Revolution being defeated means France isn't putting a ton of money into the war, which means the circumstances leading to the French Revolution do not exist, which means no Napoleon. No United States and no Napoleon means the territory doesn't get sold. That said, I don't see a problem with Louisiana's colonial magistrate banning slavery, leading to an influx of escaped slaves from other colonies. I could see slave hunters trying to bring them back, getting owned badly, and the French Army deciding to just let them handle this issue themselves, since they seem to be doing so rather well.
Slavery is done for by the mid-nineteenth century. The southern American colonies are, at this point, still British, and the British are going to ban it just like IRL. I could see an insurgency resulting from this, but New England and the rest of the northern colonies aren't going to fight to preserve slavery, they are going to send their militias south alongside the British Army as soon as Parliament asks them to. With the Louisiana Territory still French and Texas still Spanish (the chunk of North America Britain took from Spain was California), the south does not have the capacity to fight the northern colonies, much less the entire British Empire. They will not win.
Yet more notes:
The current date is 2013 in setting, but magic has slowed technology growth as people focus time and money on magic and technology both instead of just technology. Science is still advanced, as most mages are Wizards, and Wizards use scientific principles.
The biggest city in the world is currently London. If you include the Metropolitan area, one fifth of the island resides there.
The portion of the Columbia District between British Columbia and California is British territory, is called Cascadia, and is a province of Canada.
Do to Britain having acted less dickish in Ireland during the 19th century than in IRL, the home rule movement was much smaller, and did not meet with success. Ireland is still a part of the United Kingdom.
The most relevant world powers are Britain, France, Germany, Russia, Arabia, Mexico, Brazil, and Japan. There are very few neutral countries, with most countries allying either together or with a world power. Britain's alliances are:
Great Britain - New England, Columbia (mid-atlantic states), Virginia (includes Kentucky), Carolina (includes Tennessee), Georgia, Canada, California, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, many small former colonies (Britain has many former colonies that are trading partners but not allies)
I'll have the other powers' allies later.
Britain's relations with the other powers are thus:
France: Things are very tense do to conflicting economic interests in the Middle East, but historically we have been allies and the government is trying to keep relations good. It doesn't really seem to be going well, however.
Germany: Fought two major and inconclusive wars with them during the Third Reich era (this era had nothing to do with Hitler), but after the Kaiser was overthrown and Germany made overtures of cooperation relations became very warm, and remain so to this day. Our biggest economic partner.
Russia: Russia's totalitarian leaders are a threat to the entire region, with their bluster of a "Unified Slavic Nation" and need to cover up a deeply divided political climate with a cause everyone can rally behind.
Arabia: Another close economic partner. The only foreign power more popular with the average citizen is Germany. Seen as liberal and progressive, and a positive stabilizing influence on the region.
Mexico: Mexico's view that they should rule as much of the Americas as possible in the name of anti-colonialism could become a major problem for our allies in the region. We fear the risk of a violent confrontation.
Brazil: We have a fairly good relationship here, and seek to improve it. They are a useful trading partner, they are politically compatible with our beliefs, and they are as worried about Mexican aggression as we are.
Japan: Has been a threat ever since the military took over. They are making overtures towards their former Pacific colonies that they are going to reacquire them one way or another, and we doubt they would stop there.
I'm trying to create a situation with potential conflicts instead of active ones, so that individual groups can decide who and where they want to fight, and who they want to preserve peace with. Personally, I'm going to say that anything I write that happens after January 1st, 2013 is non-canon, and events from one campaign do not carry over into another campaign. That way, I can start a war with France and fight it out in one campaign, then be friends with France and fight Russia in the next campaign.
I do consider the situation with France one that could turn violent. France is in a dire economic crisis and has a fairly powerful military. If the economy doesn't turn around, a fight over those conflicting economic interests with Britain could erupt. On the other hand, if the upcoming elections bring in someone more competent, Anglo-French relations could warm up again.
Clerical magic works. Hitler was smashed by an improved Clay Golem at his first hate rally.
Dotted and squeed.
Dotted
The new thread will be up Sunday evening. Promise. After that, I'll put all into it that I can, but I start college Monday.
best of luck
Snake. Hopefully I get that thread up, but I just woke up and my head hurts.
Snake. Hopefully I get that thread up, but I just woke up and my head hurts.
umm...cow? looking forward to it.
I'll get it done. Coffee and Aspirin make a everything better.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
make sure to drink plenty of water, use a cool compress, and massage your scalp, neck, and earlobes. Sometimes rubbing the bridge of your nose, and the spot between your thumb and index finger helps as well.
Thanks. I'll be fine. Typing up the new thread now.
Thread ready to be posted. Here it is.