quick question. I know in early editions of dnd 3 classes were the max for multiclassing and classes such as bard couldnt mix with pally or barb couldnt mix with monk. What are the rules now, i thought i saw a post of someone w 4 classes. Is there a link to multiclassing rules? thanks!
well, I'm pretty sure bard can't mix with paladin and barbarian can't mix with monk in Pathfinder, simply because of the alignment incompatibility. Other than that I don't think there's any restrictions.
I've seen nothing to suggest any limit on multiclassing in PF. You can take a single level of every class if you want to (not necessarily a good plan, but hey).
As for mixing classes, some may not work based on alignment restrictions, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're always worthless either.
As an example, monks need to be lawful and barbs need to be nonlawful, but if a monk becomes nonlawful after gaining levels of monk, they don't lose anything they've gained, they just can't advance any further levels in monk.
You would just want to take care on the classes that do lose their actual class features if they go to a prohibited alignment (Paladins, Clerics, and Druids being the most obvious ones to look out for).
Edit @ Katz: Why can't a bard go into Paladin?
Because a Barbarian loses Rage if he goes Lawful, which kind of negates the whole purpose of the class.
That was Bard with a Dee :P
And my example was for a monk going nonlawful in order to level as a Barb. Hopefully having gotten all they want from Monk before doing so.
Oh fwoops, my bad.
I thought bards were nonlawful, for some reason...but turns out I was mistaken. Not sure where I got that idea from. My apologies for the error.
I thought bards were nonlawful, for some reason...but turns out I was mistaken. Not sure where I got that idea from. My apologies for the error.
Truthfully, I had to check to make sure their alignment didn't specify that. I wouldn't have been surprised if they were.
so for example if all i want out of 2 lvl's of monk is evasion and 2 bonus feats, then i can go any other class i want as long as i never go back to monk? or is it sheerly about alignment?
so for example if all i want out of 2 lvl's of monk is evasion and 2 bonus feats, then i can go any other class i want as long as i never go back to monk? or is it sheerly about alignment?
yes, you can be a monk for 2 levels(as long as you are lawful, or the martial artist archetype) then switch to another class. if you are not a martial artist and you become nonlawful you will not lose anything you have gained, you just cannot take any monk levels ever again.
yes, you can be a monk for 2 levels(as long as you are lawful, or the martial artist archetype) then switch to another class. if you are not a martial artist and you become nonlawful you will not lose anything you have gained, you just cannot take any monk levels ever again.
i assume at that point my alignment must change also, to something acceptable for the new class?
example could u take 2 monk(lawful), then take 2 barb(chaotic), then 2 pally( back to lawful good)??? or is this dipping back into the 1st alignment? sorry just a bit confused.
It's just about alignment. If you take 2 levels of monk, and then 3 levels of, say, sorcerer, you're free to hop back to Monk whenever you like if you do still have a lawful alignment, as that's the restriction for monks.
Otherwise though, you don't lose anything that you gained from the Monk class if you go nonlawful, unlike, as Rynjin pointed out, the way a Barbarian will lose their ability to Rage if they go Lawful.
Side note: If a Barbarian later goes back to being nonlawful though, I think they'd regain the ability to Rage. Divine caster classes usually need an atonement spell if something like that happens though.
If you went Barb and then swapped to Lawful you'd lose the ability to Rage.
And I dunno of any GM who'd just let you skip over the alignment lines so willy nilly like that.
Basically: No limits on multiclassing except how many alignment shifts you can get away with, but Monk can't progress as Non-lawful, and Barbarian and Paladin lose their main class features for being Lawful/Non-Lawful.
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In 3rd ed there was a special multi-classing rule that only applied to monks and paladins; if you had levels in either class, as soon as you took a level in any other class, you couldn't take any more levels in your (monk or paladin) class. There were certain PrCs which let you go back, and some feats which let you freely multi-class between the two classes specified by the specific feat.
In PF, all that has gone (good!). The only thing that still may be a limiting factor is alignment. Best to check. If your alignment changes so that it is no longer compatible with a class in which you have levels, then for some classes this means nothing more than being unable to take a new level in it. For others, you lose access to some or all of that classes abilities, and this varies by class so you'll have to check.
For example, if a barbarian becomes lawful then he cannot rage until he's non-lawful again, but if a paladin ever loses his lawful good alignment then he loses all class abilities until he regains his alignment and atones.
i assume at that point my alignment must change also, to something acceptable for the new class?
example could u take 2 monk(lawful), then take 2 barb(chaotic), then 2 pally( back to lawful good)??? or is this dipping back into the 1st alignment? sorry just a bit confused.
Most classes don't actually have alignment restrictions, so you generally only need to worry about them in weird scenarios (mixing Monk/Barb/Paladin for example would be... tricky, to say the least).
So if you want to multiclass Monk and something else, as long as that other class doesn't require being Nonlawful, like a barbarian, you can choose levels of either without a problem, and just keep a Lawful alignment between the two.
last question, if i have an arcane caster, say bard lvl 7 and i change/add 2 pally. at that point can i use my arcane spells up to level 7 as well as say lay hands or cure lights from pally? thanks alot guys for all the replies, very helpful!
Just be careful about what armor you wear. There is a Bard archtype that allows for heavier armor at high levels. Some feats may do this as well, but normally bards are subject to arcane spell failure if they are in medium or heavy armor.
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last question, if i have an arcane caster, say bard lvl 7 and i change/add 2 pally. at that point can i use my arcane spells up to level 7 as well as say lay hands or cure lights from pally? thanks alot guys for all the replies, very helpful!
You don't get cure light til level 4...but yes you can cast all your bard spells (assuming your still in light armor...otherwise arcane failure may apply) and LoH and smite to your hearts content.
Just a word of warning however that a LOT of MC options in PF is weaker then single classing it and if you have a MCing idea, archetypes maybe the better way to go about things. That isn't to say you can NEVER MC in PF...you just need more system mastery to make it work then single classed characters with archetypes.
last question, if i have an arcane caster, say bard lvl 7 and i change/add 2 pally. at that point can i use my arcane spells up to level 7 as well as say lay hands or cure lights from pally? thanks alot guys for all the replies, very helpful!You don't get cure light til level 4...but yes you can cast all your bard spells (assuming your still in light armor...otherwise arcane failure may apply) and LoH and smite to your hearts content.
Just a word of warning however that a LOT of MC options in PF is weaker then single classing it and if you have a MCing idea, archetypes maybe the better way to go about things. That isn't to say you can NEVER MC in PF...you just need more system mastery to make it work then single classed characters with archetypes.
yea i was just using those as an example, i actually felt in past dnd experiences that multiclass always took away something that seemed to be really important. example would be the lvl 20 fighter feat that takes ur weapon crit multiplier up one notch. i mean at level 20 ur already hitting like a truck, if u up a 15-20X2(from imp crit) and make it 15-20x3. that is just a massive amount of damage, worth multiple levels and multiple feats in my opinion.
In PF, bards can be any alignment, so they can multi-class freely with paladins, and it's not a bad fit since both need Cha.
Try a Dawnflower Dervish bard/paladin!
In 3rd ed bards couldn't be LG (IIRC), that's why they couldn't multi-class with paladins.
I believe that in 3.0, bards had to be chaotic, and in 3.5 they had to be non-lawful, but I don't have my reference material with me at the moment.
One reason it changed was to support the bard-as-lorekeeper role, which is often a very lawful one. The "chaotic" bard (IIRC) was derived from the "wandering minstrel" idea, which was by no means universal.