I was wondering if a person adds in power attack damage to their two weapon rend. It doesn't say anything about doing so, so my basic logic says no, but you do add 1 and 1/2 strength as if using a two handed weapon.
Two-Weapon Rend (Combat): "If you hit an opponent with both your primary hand and your off-hand weapon, you deal an additional 1d10 points of damage plus 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier. You can only deal this additional damage once each round."
Power Attack (Combat): "You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. (Etc.)"
It seems reasonable that the extra damage from Two-Weapon Rend should be considered melee damage. If so, then as long as you were using power attack before the attack roll that triggered it, it would gain a bonus from power attack.
However, you're not using a two-handed weapon, nor a one-handed weapon using two hands, nor a primary natural weapon, so the rend doesn't get the extra +50% damage from power attack.
I think I'm going to have to take a middle ground between Grick and Booksy.
While the rend effect does not require a third attack roll, it is melee damage. Since you are attacking with an offhand weapon, I think the -50% would apply.
I'm also tempted to rule that you can't add sneak attack damage to a rend, but I haven't checked the text.
Power Attack is applied to melee attacks that have a 'to hit roll'.
"You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls."
Is it a melee attack roll or combat maneuver check? Then it has a penalty.
Is it a melee damage roll? Then it has a bonus.
The penalty applies to melee attacks that don't deal damage, the damage bonus applies to melee damage rolls that don't have attack rolls.
Just because the damage occurs in melee, doesn't mean its 'melee damage' the game term.
"Melee damage" isn't really defined, but we can assume it means damage caused by hitting someone with a melee weapon. The rend damage is presumably caused by hitting someone in melee with a weapon, so it makes sense that the rend damage roll is a melee damage roll.
The Rend (Ex) monster ability (which the feat kind of simulates) is an extra attack. It doesn't have an attack roll, but it's an attack, so PA damage should apply to it independently of the attacks that triggered it.
Also, if you were going to rule the damage gains the PA bonus, it's triggered by a successful off-hand attack, and PA cleary states off-hand attacks gain get -50% bonus damage.
No, it says the damage is halved if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon. While it's true that at some point during that action you made an attack with an off-hand weapon, the PA rule is referring specifically to the attack that caused that specific damage roll. Meaning, if you're just a normal guy using two-weapon fighting, you don't take -50% PA damage on all your attacks that turn, just the attacks made with the off-hand weapon.
The rend damage is triggered by hitting with both weapons, the main hand weapon and the off-hand weapon. The damage doesn't come from the off-hand itself any more than it comes from the main hand.
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And in the other corner:
Rend adds damage to an attack; it's not an attack in and of itself. Just as power attack won't increase sneak attack damage or constrict damage, it won't increase rend damage (although it DOES increase the damage inflicted by the attacks that are necessary to trigger rend in the first place).
-edit- He's probably talking specifically about the Rend monster ability (since he mentions how often it leads to PC deaths), but it should still hold true for Two-Weapon Rend.
what DR applies to rend?
I would have said that since it's a new attack, DR (+fire shield, etc) would apply separately.
James also says DR applies, but when pressed, he got frustrated at people for making things complicated.
Do you have a choice to rend or not even?
I would say you have the option to not use the feat, but you would decide that before the last attack that triggers it.
-edit- I see you asked what DR applies, I guess I would say the same as whatever the last attack was that triggered it, or have it be typeless and thus all DR applies fully... Bleh.
yeah, the Rend damage is basically 'tacked on' to the attack that triggers it.
not separate DR, no separate power attack (which already applied to the 2 attacks)
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Rend is basically, "I hit you with one weapon and leave the blade sticking in your flesh, then hit you with another, and pull them both out of you forcibly" causing extra damage. I don't see it as a separate attack or action, and I wouldn't apply PA to it.
DR can get harry since Rend is essentially coming from both weapons. I'm not sure I'd allow DR to count against it, just as I also wouldn't be adding magical weapon properties to it either. I think that Two-Weapon Rend is pretty explicit about what it does--you deal 1d10+1 and a half Str. No mention of anything else. The Rend special monster ability is problematic, since it's possible to have an effect on one claw, but not another, than adds to the claw's damage, and the ability is worded in a way that one could argue that extra damage should apply.
If one were to do so, do you count the DR-breaking properties from the primary or secondary weapon? If you're using a slashing weapon and a bludgeoning weapon against a target with DR/bludgeoning, would you have it reduce the damage?
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is either Rend ever presented as a distinct attack?
i think that effectively, it should be tacked onto the SECOND attack, since that is the attack that really triggers it,
the first attack is just a pre-req for the second attack to be able to trigger it.
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hmm... i wouldn't even really count the first reference, it should really state 'the rend special ability', because that's what rend is, same as grab (which does grant an attack). the second bolding does seem more direct, but i'm still dubious...
how do we know it's a melee attack? it doesn't say that. there is no melee attack roll. the whole point of power attack is that it's boosting damage on melee damage rolls while REDUCING the attack roll on those same attacks. if there is no attack roll for this 'attack' (even theoretically, e.g. Coup de Grace says you automatically hit/Crit, but the attack roll still abstractly exists even if nobody bothers to roll it), then i don't see why Power Attack should apply to it.
if a certain situation (making 2 natural attacks) let you apply some magical effect, or some effect that is usually a touch attack, would power attack apply then? i don't think so, and i don't see the difference here just because rend is merely doing normal hp damage. 'attack' doesn't just mean melee/ranged attack (which Power Attack/Deadly Aim apply to), it can also apply to offensive spells for instance (breaking Invisibility).
the usage (particularly the second bolded reference) of 'attack' definitely DOES give some hints otherwise though, and apparently even some Paizo staff have been convinced by that... i think that the abilty should either be clarified to more concretely state that it is a melee attack, OR have that language cleaned up so it isn't confusing.
I also don't think 2 weapon rend would do increased (+50%) STR damage if you are using a 2-handed weapon (double weapon or using two separate 2-handed weapons if you have 4 arms). It's already doing 1.5xSTR dmg, but presumably it could be increased somehow if that did work. I don't see why Power Attack should apply but increased 2handed STR damage wouldn't. They both apply to melee attacks... but Rend isn't one, it's just like a (conditional) Flaming enhancement on your sword, even though it happens to reference your STR bonus.
Melee Attacks also have a chance to Crit. This doesn't.
...Please DO hit FAQ on my last post though, I really do think it could use cleaning up, either way...
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umm... OK:
[Trample] works just like the overrun combat maneuver, but the trampling creature does not need to make a check, it merely has to move over opponents in its path. Targets of a trample take an amount of damage equal to the trampling creature's slam damage + 1-1/2 times its Str modifier.
I see this as a bit different from Rend, because it's saying it is basically like making an Over-Run attack, except you don't need to roll... i.e. akin to Coup-de-Grace auto-hitting/Critting. That means it is still a melee attack like Over-Run is, even if you don't need to roll to succeed. Power Attack applies to all melee attacks that do damage, including Sunder CMB, and in this case Trample-Overrun CMB (even if you don't roll the attack, like CdG).
Question: Is Trample meant to do damage to ALL opponents you can move thru, or only one target? I always thought it was multiple opponents, which makes sense with the last line saying you cant affect one target more than once, but reading it, it never actually says that, and the first line says you 'overrun any creaturE' in the singular tense, not plural. Errata?