This sonds so cool, Owen. Looking forward to it.
While I enjoy fanatsy, SF has always been my first love and apocalyptic is a lovely mix.
PA SF has been a favorite of mine for years. Combining it with horror and fantasy just adds fuel to the fire. Although one idea I have for running this might be to make it a high psionics campaign and either lessen the roles of the traditional magic users or eliminate them entirely. Or some combination of the two like allow bards, paladins, rangers, alchemists, inquisitors and magi but not full casters like wizards and clerics. Just some random thoughts of mine on the subject.
Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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It'll certainly be possible to play Warlords of the Apocalypse with clerics, druids, and sorcerers -- it's 100% Pathfinder compatible after all, for both rules and power level -- but we'll be providing new character classes as well to help support campaigns based on no magic, no psionics, so supernatural powers settings too.
I intend to make magic and similar powers a dial, and let you turn it down to 0, or all the way up to 10. (Probably not up to 11...)
Hi Owen,
Here go a few questions...
How will you balance mutations? with defects? providing 'non-mutants' additional 'powers'?
Will mental mutations (psionics) be handled similar to physical mutations?
Will mutations scale up in power as the character gains levels?
I'm in mood for PA. I pulled out my old Gamma World books (more than one edition) and Darwin's World and am just about ready to set some guidelines to start a PA game but then I stop because it's a lot of work to pick and choose, let alone to make it PF compatible.
Bottom line is... hurry up with your book! :)
I intend to make magic and similar powers a dial, and let you turn it down to 0, or all the way up to 10. (Probably not up to 11...)
To be fair, the default assumption for magic in pathfinder is probably already 11.
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Hi Owen,
Here go a few questions...
I may actually be ready to answer them now.
How will you balance mutations? with defects? providing 'non-mutants' additional 'powers'?
Honestly it varies.
I plan to have a mutant player race. (Maybe more than one -- it may be mutant humanoid, mutant animal, and mutant plant as three separate species). That race obviously gets starting mutations as racial abilities. For those characters, drawbacks will be an option at character creation.
I also plan to have an "evolutionary" archetype, as all the classes will gain 1 archetype (though they may be called backgrounds, paradigms, or callings, so distinguish them from APG-style archetypes). That allows characters to gain additional mutations as class powers as characters gain levels.
I also plan to have a system for power-boosts other than from magic items, so a game of hardscrabble survival where a plastic canteen is a major possession can stay at the same power-level as Pathfinder fantasy characters decked out with magic items. One option in that system (though NOT the only option) will be gaining additional mutations instead of getting magic items. This system will be something a GM decided to use for a given campaign or not, rather than a system players choose to take.
Will mental mutations (psionics) be handled similar to physical mutations?
Basically yes, although psionics are also getting a sidebar, and most mental mutations are likely to be handled as specific powers rather than access to the whole psionic power system.
Will mutations scale up in power as the character gains levels?
Yes... and no. Powers with things based on character level (such as ranges and save DCs) automatically scale up some. Others will have options to increase the power of the mutation by spending more augmentation points, so making them more powerful is an option but doesn't happen automatically. For example, if you get claws they do a set amount of damage. As your BAB and feats increase you have more ways to use that damage and get more out of it -- but the claws don't themselves become more dangerous unless you put more points into them.
Bottom line is... hurry up with your book! :)
Sorry to keep folks waiting. It's just a HUGE undertaking, and we're trying to make sure we do it RIGHT, instead of doing it FAST.
Thanks for the prompt response; I was actually hoping for some of the answers you provided.
I plan to have a mutant player race. (Maybe more than one -- it may be mutant humanoid, mutant animal, and mutant plant as three separate species). That race obviously gets starting mutations as racial abilities. For those characters, drawbacks will be an option at character creation.
This is really good news as it will allow us to play 'mutant fighters' and 'mutant rogues' and NOT just mutants. I'm glad you will include mutant animals; I don't particularly care for plants but I can see that others may so the option is always good.
Yes... and no. Powers with things based on character level (such as ranges and save DCs) automatically scale up some. Others will have options to increase the power of the mutation by spending more augmentation points, so making them more powerful is an option but...
I'm not sure how this is going to work but it sounds good. I'm assuming for balance sake that every PC will get these 'augmentation points' as they go up in levels and a 'non mutant' PC will have other ways to spend them.
Thanks again.
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Yes... and no. Powers with things based on character level (such as ranges and save DCs) automatically scale up some. Others will have options to increase the power of the mutation by spending more augmentation points, so making them more powerful is an option but...I'm not sure how this is going to work but it sounds good. I'm assuming for balance sake that every PC will get these 'augmentation points' as they go up in levels and a 'non mutant' PC will have other ways to spend them.
Augmentation Points are how you get mutations -- or build ancient tech, or gain cybernetics or nanoaugmentations, bioimplants, symbiotic demon viruses, or anything else that's basically a power you tack onto a character.
The main ways to gain more such points (to buy up powers) are taking feats or having an augmentation-based archetype. So if you play a mutant animal enforcer (a class) with the evolutionary archetype, you'll gain new augmentation points as you go up in level. A player who runs a human enforcer with the ruin raider archetype won't get any augmentation points, but he'll have other class abilities as he gains level and thus be on par with your mutant.
If the alternate-power-boost options are in place, then yes people not playing mutants (or nonocyborgs, or other augmentation-point-based characters) would have other options for gaining power without getting magic items.
Augmentation Points are how you get mutations -- or build ancient tech, or gain cybernetics or nanoaugmentations, bioimplants, symbiotic demon viruses, or anything else that's basically a power you tack onto a character.
The main ways to gain more such points (to buy up powers) are taking feats or having an augmentation-based archetype. So if you play a mutant animal enforcer (a class) with the evolutionary archetype, you'll gain new augmentation points as you go up in level. A player who runs a human enforcer with the ruin raider archetype won't get any augmentation points, but he'll have other class abilities as he gains level and thus be on par with your mutant.
If the alternate-power-boost options are in place, then yes people not playing mutants (or nonocyborgs, or other augmentation-point-based characters) would have other options for gaining power without getting magic items.
So, in the above example, if I'm playing a mutant animal enforcer with the ruin raider archetype (NOT the evolutionary archetype), I won't be able to 'augment' my mutations (or gain new ones) as I advance in level. If any improvement is to be made to my mutations, it would have to come from some other source (feats, for example. or 'wealth', see below).
With regards to the magic items (or wealth), will you include some sort of table that states that a 4th level character, which currently has on average 6,000 gp, is entitled to X amount of 'augmentation points'?
And I don't want to sound repetitive but thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Your example of the mutant animal enforcer is correct -- within the limits of my plans as I am not done yet.
IF a GM decides to use the Alternate-Power-Boost rules, then yes there would be a chart that showed what the (new) wealth-by-level is, and how much power boost you get when using the lower totals. More augmentation points is only one option for Alternate Power Boosts.
Sorry to keep folks waiting. It's just a HUGE undertaking, and we're trying to make sure we do it RIGHT, instead of doing it FAST.
I can only speak for myself (thought judging from the recently completed Kickstarter for another long-delayed RPG project, it seems there are others who agree with me), but I would MUCH rather be presented with the former of those two options than the latter. Take whatever time you need; I trust you guys to bring on the awesome!
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Personally I would balance the non-mutants (at least the pure humans) with some human-only gear. Powered armor - from low level lifter suits, to mid and high level assault armors is one way to go. Bio-interface gear and weapons (not cybernetics) that only function for pure humans over other races/types - since the gear was designed for them. Sort of a human gear expectation based on class and level - enforcers get the armor and weapons, brainy humans get the human only gizmo's cool gear, etc.
Anyway, I will be curious to see the final result - will probably pick this up when it comes out.
Personally I would balance the non-mutants (at least the pure humans) with some human-only gear. Powered armor - from low level lifter suits, to mid and high level assault armors is one way to go. Bio-interface gear and weapons (not cybernetics) that only function for pure humans over other races/types - since the gear was designed for them. Sort of a human gear expectation based on class and level - enforcers get the armor and weapons, brainy humans get the human only gizmo's cool gear, etc.
Yes, you are right. I had forgotten about the 'DNA-locked' equipment, an excellent way to balance out 'non mutants'.
And with regards to balancing things out in general, one could take the magic item creation rules to get a rough idea. For example if your mutant gets the 'burning hand power', figure out how much that would be worth (spell level, caster level, uses per day, etc.) and balance that out by giving your other PCs something comparable in worth (tech item, augmentation points, etc.). Yeah, I think it would work just fine.
Looking forward to this.
I'm really looking forward to this. Is there a ballpark guesstimate as to when the KickStarter will begin?
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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I'm really looking forward to this. Is there a ballpark guesstimate as to when the KickStarter will begin?
No, not yet there isn't. Not in the next 30 days for certain, and quite possibly not in the next 60 or 90. I'd HOPE to have it up by June sometime, but that's a hope, not even a guesstimate.
And it COULD be sooner, depending on how fast some things come together.
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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We sent out an update by the mailing list yesterday... a WIP logo. Anyone who wants to see it should sign up and check out yesterday's post.
Love the idea! Any idea when the kickstarter begins for this? And maybe this was answered, but is it a setting-specific thing? Like Earth or maybe some fantasy world?
Hello, I know I'm a little late to the discussion, and it may be far too early at this stage to answer this, but it sounds as though you might be considering introducing new races and if you are, will they be generated with the racial points system introduced in Advanced Races Guide?
I have been rabid with anticipation for this since I heard about it, and when the Kickstarter is a reality, I would be delighted to support it!
Thank you for resurrecting what was looking to be a tragic end to a very exciting sourcebook! Best of luck, and with the desires voiced on the boards, together we can make this an epic book!
Thanks for the renewed hope and the info so far! Hope to hear more soon!
The Pale :)
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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There will definitely be at least a few new races. I have human, mutant humanoid, mutant animal, mutant plant, and android all on the drawing board and a few other possibilities as well. I'll certainly be giving information about the ARG in relation to these races, though in what form or level of detail I do not yet know.
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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I sent out an update to the mailing list today... an example of a riot shield (modern equipment in Pathfinder game terms). There is also a #1 With a Bullet Point for anachronistic armor coming out soon if you want to pay $1 and see more of the direction we are going.
Anyone who wants to see this week's preview should sign up and check out today's post!
Oooooh I will so buy that bullet point
I sent out an update to the mailing list today... an example of a riot shield (modern equipment in Pathfinder game terms).
I have a question about the riot shield, shouldn't it give +2 AC (large shield) rather than +1 (small shield) base?
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Nonballistic riot shields simply can't stand up to direct hits from serious weapons with the rigidity of hardened and reinforced leather or iron. As a result even though they cover a fairly big area, they are only +1 AC. Which is okay given how light and easy to maneuver they are compared to lower technology options. That's also why they give +2 AC vs improvised weapons, they CAN bounce a fairly large area of things less likely to focus their damage to penetrate or smash the plastic.
I was actually a little surprised how much research it took to develop numbers I was satisfied with on these things. :)
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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No, there is no "built in" bonus to AC, since I feel that makes the classes too different from their Pathfinder cousins. I want a 9th level tough (master of arms) to be able to stand back-to-back with a 9th level fighter and both players feel like they have characters using the same rules in the same world.
However, their is an Avoidance feat tree in Anachronistic Adventurers; The Enforcer that simulates the defense bonus, and it's open to any character. It's designed to allow light and no-armor character concepts work (and has a full page of behind-the-scenes on how we built it and why). So you can have combat-effective main fighters without armor when using the AA rules, but those fighters can be of any class (Pf classes included).
Will actual armor be prevalent in the system then? If you have to take a line of feats just to have a relavent AC that represents significantly more investment then said fighter wearing heavy armor, which would disadvantage the tough in said back to back encounter.
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Actual armor is a viable option. Obviously having a high defense without depending on armor is an advantage (since it can't be damaged, stolen, or made irrelevant by attacking you when you sleep or shower), so a feat tree is an appropriate option. And since the tree boosts you effective Dex bonus to AC, it possible for a character to take just one feat and decide to wear light armor (with its higher max Dex) and not take the rest of the tree... or take more and go with no armor at all IF that's the direction they want to go.
The core feat was in Anachronistic Adventurers: The Enforcer, so it's had a couple of years of playtesting so far and most people seem pretty happy with it.
Actual armor is a viable option. Obviously having a high defense without depending on armor is an advantage (since it can't be damaged, stolen, or made irrelevant by attacking you when you sleep or shower), so a feat tree is an appropriate option. And since the tree boosts you effective Dex bonus to AC, it possible for a character to take just one feat and decide to wear light armor (with its higher max Dex) and not take the rest of the tree... or take more and go with no armor at all IF that's the direction they want to go.
The core feat was in Anachronistic Adventurers: The Enforcer, so it's had a couple of years of playtesting so far and most people seem pretty happy with it.
As long as armor is a viable option, i dont see it as an issue. Its only if it wasnt an option in the ruleset that I think it would be an issue.
The truth is there are already a few options to go armorless floating around in the Super Genius Uninverse. Web of Steel is a scaling feat from feats of battle, and the yuxia archetype is another possible path (which works with the anachronistic adventures classes) with the Iron Skin ki talent, or if you happen to be a Kobold, the Apocalypse fighter Archetype from the Kobold Kings has the armored scales ability at first level. So I am not overly worried about having to use avoidance, I just think it should not be the only or even the primary path to a descent ac. It should be a luxary as you say for AC that cant be taken away or made irrelevant.
Kolokotroni raised an interesting point. Warlords is supposed to be 100% Pathfinder compatible. Is it also going to be 100% Super Genius compatible?
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Kolokotroni raised an interesting point. Warlords is supposed to be 100% Pathfinder compatible. Is it also going to be 100% Super Genius compatible?
That's certainly the plan, though since this is its own rulebook and setting, if I find at some point I have to decide between compatibility between an obscure SGG pdf and the best possible WotA rule, I'll pick the latter.
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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I sent out an update to the mailing list today... an example of a psychic ability (mesmerism) as a teaser of the psychic rules we'll be using. There will also be a version of these rules in Anachronistic Adventurers: The Sensitive, the last of the AA classes, coming out later this week, if you want to pay $1 and see more of the direction we are going.
Anyone who wants to see this week's preview should sign up and check out today's post!
Nonballistic riot shields simply can't stand up to direct hits from serious weapons with the rigidity of hardened and reinforced leather or iron. As a result even though they cover a fairly big area, they are only +1 AC.
Yeah, I was actually thinking after posting that it may be related to the material of construction rather than the surface area. I originally thought, for some reason, that the material would be as hard/harder than ancient shields, but the more I reflected on it, the more I realised that probably wasn't right.
Thanks for clarifying!
I sent out an update to the mailing list today... an example of a psychic ability (mesmerism) as a teaser of the psychic rules we'll be using. There will also be a version of these rules in Anachronistic Adventurers: The Sensitive, the last of the AA classes, coming out later this week, if you want to pay $1 and see more of the direction we are going.
Anyone who wants to see this week's preview should sign up and check out today's post!
Huzzah this has been on my list for a while :)and while I still have money left...BONUS!
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Nonballistic riot shields simply can't stand up to direct hits from serious weapons with the rigidity of hardened and reinforced leather or iron. As a result even though they cover a fairly big area, they are only +1 AC.Yeah, I was actually thinking after posting that it may be related to the material of construction rather than the surface area. I originally thought, for some reason, that the material would be as hard/harder than ancient shields, but the more I reflected on it, the more I realised that probably wasn't right.
Honestly my original start8ing assumption was pretty much the same as yours. It was only after doing some research I discovered clear riot shields weren't designed to stand up to firearms, or even serious melee weapons. But they seem to be very popular for avoiding rocks and bottles. The +1 AC, +1 more vs improvised weapons seemed the best way to model that once I wrapped my head around it.
Thanks for clarifying!
My pleasure! That's part of the whole point of teasers, after all. :)
My pleasure! That's part of the whole point of teasers, after all. :)
Indeed, alas that more game designers/producers don't share the same philosophy.
I've been looking forward to this game for some time now, and the more I read about it (including browsing the catalogue/reviews of the various Anachronistic Adventurers releases), the more excited I get! Can't wait for the kickstarter...
:)
Any new thoughts you can share here?
Sorry to hear that. Hope you are feeling better.
I'm still pondering this one but as we move toward a Kickstarter (see below) I am absolutely going to work on how to reward the people who supported us on our earlier P20 Modern effort. But I can't do that at the cost of the people who already supported THIS project, and I'm not even sure we're going to have "Warlord of the Apocalypse Iconics," so I haven't decided what, if anything, we'll be doing.
But you are not forgotten!
Like Urizen, I've been on Paizo/RPG sabbatical, so I just learned of this project (SGG taking over WotA, and a possible Kickstarter).
Glad to hear you've taken this on! My interest in the product has completely reversed itself, and SGG is sole reason for this!
I think I share the same feelings as Kolokotroni/Urizen: As one of the P20-six, it's totally awesome that we've not been forgotten, but completely understood, regarding your comments above.
Just applied for the Google Group, can't wait to see what develops, and, speaking as one that's starting to get a bit burnt out on Kickstarters, I'm actually looking forward to the potential of this one!
Hope you feel better soon, sir!
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Hey Folks!
Normally I just note here that a new update is at the Google group, but since I missed a few weeks due to illness, I thought I'd repost the racial sneak peek over here this time!
This is a rough draft of one of the races we'll be presenting. There will be some mutant races and synthetic races as well, but this one is a more standard racial write up for a pretty common PA trope -- the Morlock!
Morlock
Morlocks are an off-shoot of humanity that has adapted to life in complete darkness. They may have evolved from beneficial and stable mutations that enabled them to better survive the Dark Years that followed the Apocalypse. When the sun returned the morlocks discovered that the world above was no longer for them, at least not while it shined. During the day morlocks prefer to remain underground or deep within caves and ruins. Only during the night do they feel comfortable moving across the land. While most races in the world have indulged in cannibalism, morlocks have a particular reputation for eating the flesh of other races.
Physical Description: Morlocks are identical to their human cousins in height, although morlocks tend to be slimmer creatures. A morlock’s hair and skin lack pigmentation, giving them an almost ghostly appearance. They also have sharper teeth, indicative of their carnivorous diet. Morlock eyes appear to be jet-black in light (their pupils are so wide that even the iris is difficult to see beneath their eyelids) and glow dull red in the dark. Most morlocks wear special goggles that mute the glow as well as allow them to see better in the daylight.
Society: Morlocks were one of the first races to really organize themselves during the Dark Years – or at least they are descended from groups who held on to rules and traditions leftover from the Age of Light. As a result, morlock societies tend to echo philosophies, laws, and even religions from the Old Times, adapted and twisted for their current situation. However what elements from the Age of Light have been retained, and exactly how its been perverted by centuries of living in the darkness and surviving through organized cannibalism and the worship of ancient technologies, varies widely between different morlock tribes.
Morlocks have problems trusting others, including their own kind, so morlock societies tend to be small and utterly devoted to a single leader, often an elder with psychic abilities. Morlock tribes are generally only stable while their leader is strong and vibrant – when a leader grows weak or timid, the tribe turns on itself until a new leader emerges (often cementing his or her command by publicly eating the heart of the previous leader).
Relations: Morlocks blame humans for the fall of the Age of Light, so their attitudes towards humanity borders on arrogance. Morlocks get along well with skitters and have no strong feelings towards other races. Most races are wary of morlocks, as morlock tribes generally indulge in cannibalism.
Alignment: A morlock’s philosophy is generally shaped by the society of his birth. Adventuring morlocks tend to be rugged individualists with little use for strict laws and rigid society, but there are some morlock communities that place the good of the whole over the wishes of the individual. Most morlocks have little use for non-morlock societies as a whole as long as such societies leave them alone.
Adventurers: Morlock adventurers are actually quite common, as competent mercenaries that can see in the dark are always in high demand. Some are outcasts (in many cases those who backed the wrong side in a struggle to determine a new tribal leader), while others are raised from birth knowing they will be “sent out” when they reach maturity to ensure the tribe doesn’t outgrow its resources.
Morlocks are wicked warriors, using their short weapons to slash enemies apart piece by piece. Though rarely trusted by outsiders and often standoffish when first working with a group of non-morlocks, a morlock that adopts a group as its new tribe is often fiercely loyal to its companions -- though it would strive not to let its allies discover how deep its feelings went.
Morlock Racial Traits
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Morlocks are fast and perceptive, but their appearance and reputation often unsettle others.
Medium: Morlocks are medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Fast Speed: Morlocks have a base speed of 40 feet.
Darkvision: Morlocks can see in the dark up to 60 feet.Keen Senses: Morlocks receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks.
Light Sensitivity: Morlocks are dazzled in areas of bright sunlight.
Psychic Affinity: Morlock minds are naturally predisposed toward psychic abilities. A morlock receives a +2 bonus to all skill checks made to use or resist psychic abilities.
Weapon Familiarity: Morlocks are proficient with all light melee weapons, and treat any weapon with the word “morlock” in its name as a martial weapon.
Languages: Morlocks begin play speaking Tradespeak. Morlocks with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic). See Linguistics in Skills of the Apocalypse for more information about these languages.
Thanks for the update, but... there's a Google group?
Morlocks!? This project just keeps getting better and better.
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Thanks for the update, but... there's a Google group?
Yep! Mentioned in post #7 of this thread, back in December.
"In addition to being visible and responding to folks here, I have set up a Google Group mailing list for anyone who wants to opt-in to weekly updates: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/warlords-of-the-apocalyp se"
Everything posted there is archived, so you haven't missed anything!
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Actually, neither of those suppositions is correct. We're just more complicated than that. :)
Warlords of the Apocalypse will have nods to psionics, and likely a few psionic mutations, and definitely notes on how to add all of the psionics material from DSP to your apocalypse of choice. I am a huge fan of their psionics and wouldn't want to create a competing system, but I also don't want to copy huge sections of their rulebook. So it'll be covered, and I'll include the rules needed to use it in WotA, but mostly we'll send you to DSP for wholesale implementation.
Our psychic rules are designed to be different from psionics (you can use both in a campaign -- they do different things and work from different concepts much as magic and psionics are different), and they are new rules we are designing for this purpose. They'll be expanded from the short version that appeared in Anachronistic Adventurers: The Sensitive.
Actually, neither of those suppositions is correct. We're just more complicated than that. :)
Warlords of the Apocalypse will have nods to psionics, and likely a few psionic mutations, and definitely notes on how to add all of the psionics material from DSP to your apocalypse of choice. I am a huge fan of their psionics and wouldn't want to create a competing system, but I also don't want to copy huge sections of their rulebook. So it'll be covered, and I'll include the rules needed to use it in WotA, but mostly we'll send you to DSP for wholesale implementation.
Our psychic rules are designed to be different from psionics (you can use both in a campaign -- they do different things and work from different concepts much as magic and psionics are different), and they are new rules we are designing for this purpose. They'll be expanded from the short version that appeared in Anachronistic Adventurers: The Sensitive.
I totally get that. Working on my own project, I decided the best course for handling traditional psionics was to include a minimum and sufficient chunk of the DSP rules and referring people out to the DSP products for the whole enchilada.
The psychic thing sounds interesting and I am not up to date on that AnAdv, so I will need to check that out.
Hi Owen,
Has interest in this project waned because of other commitments?
Are you guys still on schedule (whatever it is)?
Thanks!