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Dear Owen K. C. Stephens,
I have a few questions. Please forgive me if they have been asked before.
1. Will you be using archetypes?
2. Will we be seeing new and more modern skills?
3. Will the PSI system be a new one or one like the 3.5 one?
4. Will the gun rules look more like the ones in UC or Anachronistic Adventures?
5. Will I be able to play a mutant turtle?
Thanks in advance I look forward to this.
Alright, my interest is officially piqued, Science Fantasy Post Apocalypse is all you really had to say to get me to take notice. Working with DSP for psychic powers is another plus. Do some of us a favor and get talking to the folks over at Skortched Urf about their Fursona product as a possible addendum, and maybe shaking out some of the overtly sexual bits to make it more PG so as a GM I don't have to worry about offending players when I let them look at the book to help make mutant animal characters?
Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Dear Owen K. C. Stephens,
I have a few questions. Please forgive me if they have been asked before.
No problem, the answers may well change as the project develops, and if you have a question chances are someone else does as well.
1. Will you be using archetypes?
This isn't fully decided yet. Most likely the classes will be based on the Anachronistic Adventurers classes I am doing, and thus would include integral archetypes (though I may change the name of that element to something else)
2. Will we be seeing new and more modern skills?
This isn't fully decided yet. (I may be saying that a lot.)
My current plan to to have a set of rules on how the existing Skills function differently at different PLs, and tie that into the PL proficiency rules I developed for The Enforcer. I don't (at the moment) beelvie a whole new set of skills is required, or desirable.
3. Will the PSI system be a new one or one like the 3.5 one?
This isn't fully decided yet.
I hope to introduce a system of psychic rules which are different (in concept and execution) to psionics, while also showing how to use full-on psionics (Dreamscarred Press' psionics, to be specific) if you wish to add them.
4. Will the gun rules look more like the ones in UC or Anachronistic Adventures?
I'm strongly leaning towards the AA rules, with tweaks for death rays, plasma pistols, shardguns, lasers, heat rays, and micromissile gyrorifles.
5. Will I be able to play a mutant turtle?
Yes.
Thanks in advance I look forward to this.
Thanks for your interest!
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lots of interesting things... micromissile gyrorifles.
If i could post pictures on this forum there would be a picture of fry saying shut up and take my money...
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If i could post pictures on this forum there would be a picture of fry saying shut up and take my money...lots of interesting things... micromissile gyrorifles.
I fixed your post for you. ;)
I do like what I am hearing for this. I bought the D20 Modern version of Gamma World and rather liked it. Do keep the board informed please, Mr. Stephens, if there is even a chance I can use a modified version of Fursona to allow for "mutant animals" I would certainly be picking up a copy however I can in dead tree so I can run it locally for my fellow furs.
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Time for an update!
While we're still working on a timeline for releasing the book (we think we know how much work the book needs -- now we just need to figure out how and when we're going to get that work done, and by who) I have been working on sections as time allows (and to make sure my estimates of the time requires to bring them to completion are based in reality). While this is preliminary work, and subject to change, I wanted to share a tiny bit of that work with you.
Rather than just have a "mutations" section, which limits the type of apocalypse GMs can run and the kind of warlords players can make, I plan to have an "augmentations" section that presents abilities for cybernetics, mutation, and old world tech. Wherever possible augmentations will be based on (and cost a similar amount as) eidolon evolutions and racial abilities from the race builder. While a complete set of augmentations will be present in the book (giving you the full run-down of how they work in WotA and avoiding constantly refer you back to the Advanced Player's Guide or Ultimate Races), having the systems be linked allows future evolutions and racial build options to easily be converted to be augmentations by a GM who wishes to do so, and vice versa.
The following is an unedited, undeveloped, preliminary draft of what powers in the augmentations system may look like.
Augmentations: Cybernetics, Mutations, and Old Tech
Each augmentation is defined by a number of factors, which are defined in its statistics as outlined below.
Cost: The number of augmentation points (ap) required to purchase the augmentation.
Type: Augmentations may come from a number of different sources, which define how a character access them.
Cybernetics: The augmentation is a piece of technology integral to the character, either surgically implanted or developed as a result of nanotechnology.
Mutation: The augmentation is an innate biological ability of the character, but it not a normal feature developed through natural evolution. It may be a mutation the character was born with, or something that developed as a result of exposure to a mutagen.
Old Tech: The augmentation is part of a piece of equipment from the Old World, which may require constant maintenance and a knowledgeable operator
Visibility: How readily apparent the augmentation is.
Obvious: The augmentation (though not necessarily its exact function) is obvious at a glance.
Concealed: The augmentation has some signs of its existence, but requires a DC 20 Perception check to notice before it is used. Most concealed augmentations are obvious when put to use.
Hidden: The augmentation has no clear outward telltale signs, and is difficult to spot even when used. Recognizing that a character has this augmentation requires a DC 25 Perception check, which may only be made if the character is closely examined or the augmentation is used.
Prerequisites: Some augmentations can only be taken by characters that meet certain prerequisites, in which case they are listed here. Most often a creature’s type determines what augmentations it can take.
Effect: This defines the abilities granted by the augmentation.
Advancement: Some augmentations can be made more potent by spending additional ap. An advancement cannot be taken more than once unless it specifically says so.
Bite, Primary (Ex)
Cost: 1 ap
Type: cybernetic, mutation
Visibility: Obvious
Prerequisites: Any non-humanoid
Effect: The character’s maw is full of razor-sharp teeth, giving it a bite attack. This attack is a primary attack. The bite deals 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if Small, 1d8 if Large, 2d6 if Huge).
Advancement: For +1 ap the character can deal 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier on damage rolls made with its bite.
Advancement: For +2 ap the character deals bite damage as if it was one size category larger. This advancement may be taken more than once.
Bite, Secondary (Ex)
Cost: 1 ap
Type: cybernetic, mutation
Visibility: Concealed
Effect: The character’s teeth are unusually strong and sharp, giving it a bite attack. This attack is a secondary attack. The bite deals 1d4 points of damage (1d3 if Small, 1d6 if Large, 1d8 if Huge). A character cannot have both a primary and a secondary bite attack.
Claws (Ex)
Cost: 1 mp
Type: cybernetic, mutation, old tech
Visibility: Concealed
Prerequisites: Limbs
Effect: A character with this augmentation can extend a pair of vicious claws at the end of its limbs, giving it two claw attacks. These attacks are primary attacks. The claws deal 1d4 points of damage (1d3 if small, 1d6 if Large, 1d8 if Huge). A limb used for a claw attack cannot be used for anything else (such as holding a weapon, shield, or equipment) in the same round.
The character must have limbs to take this evolution.
Advancement: For +2 ap the characters claws become amazingly strong and sharp. The character gains a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls made with claws. This advancement may be taken more than once.
I had not thought of doing things this way, rather nice. Could you also work in a defects with negative augmentation points?
very cool, thanks for the update.
excellent. Excellent. Looking forward to this...
With the skill issue I for one do not think the the current Pathfinder skill list works to well for any thing above mid to late 19th century tech.
Have you looked at SGG's outstanding work with modern-day skills in their Anachronistic Adventurers series?
So basically you have kind of backed your way into doing a pathfinder modern/future with a post apocalyptic setting and may kickstart it to get the project moving?Yeah, that is high on the list of ways I see this coming together.
If you do kickstart this, would there be any correlation between the pathfinder modern kickstart and this one? Particularly around those first 6 backers for the iconics. Not insisting or anything I am just curious.I honestly don't know yet. I certainly want to give respect to the people who supported us in the failed p20 Modern Kickstarter, but I also want to treat the wotA pre-order folks well. so I do not know where I'll draw the "give extra treats" line. I hadn't even thought about it yet.
But when we start talking about a date for beginning a Kickstarter, I'll be sure to address the question. With luck, I think of a way to make all our biggest supporters feel valued. :D
Thanks!
A little late to this as I've been on a sabbatical from Paizo with the exception of links that direct me to something of interest (just like I saw off of your Facebook wall earlier). I thought the same thing as Kolokotroni because like him, I was one of the first six backers. And I also have pre-ordered for WotA.
All that I can say is that I'll simply watch with baited breath as to what you'll pin down for this project and hope for the best. I've said elsewhere, but I'll repeat here that I'm giddy with glee that you're helming this project. I hope it's good karma, Owen. :D
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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I thought about pre-ordering Warlords of the Apocalypse but wasn't really satisfied with Pathfinder. I felt it was going to have random mutations that didn't make balanced characters and therefore more work to GM.
There's absolutely going to be an optional random mutation chart. Because some people want that.
I think I can still make it balanced (in part because of ap points), and it'll be the GM who decides if its in use.
But the book's core assumption is that even if the mutations seem random to the characters, they are not random for the players.
Tying it into the Advanced Player's Guide/Ultimate Races sounds interesting.
It looks like it's going to work very nicely.
(I actually did a Mutant Future novel for National Novel Writing Month.)
Cool!
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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All that I can say is that I'll simply watch with baited breath as to what you'll pin down for this project and hope for the best. I've said elsewhere, but I'll repeat here that I'm giddy with glee that you're helming this project. I hope it's good karma, Owen. :D
Thanks, Urizen!
The augmentations system sounds awesome Owen! This project is in good hands.
The only thing I'm not liking so far is that I have to wait. I'm already crafting adventure outlines. You need to hurry. I should be nearly debt free by August and I want to be able to buy some stuff!
I like what I see so far, I am definitely interested in this project.
Hi Owen-Has there been any further thoughts or developments in terms of a Kickstarter for this project?
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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very cool, thanks for the update.
You're welcome. We also have a Google Groups mailing list you can join if you want the weekly updates. A lot of them are boring, but I'm trying to make sure we have open, regular communication on this project from here on out.
excellent. Excellent. Looking forward to this...
Me too!
If you do kickstart this, would there be any correlation between the pathfinder modern kickstart and this one? Particularly around those first 6 backers for the iconics. Not insisting or anything I am just curious.I thought the same thing as Kolokotroni because like him, I was one of the first six backers. And I also have pre-ordered for WotA.
I'm still pondering this one but as we move toward a Kickstarter (see below) I am absolutely going to work on how to reward the people who supported us on our earlier P20 Modern effort. But I can't do that at the cost of the people who already supported THIS project, and I'm not even sure we're going to have "Warlord of the Apocalypse Iconics," so I haven't decided what, if anything, we'll be doing.
But you are not forgotten!
This is sounding cooler and cooler!
Thanks for the feedback, Marc!
The augmentations system sounds awesome Owen! This project is in good hands.
I like what I see so far, I am definitely interested in this project.
I cannot wait to see what I can do with this book!
I'm glad so many people seem to like the direction we're taking it. :D
The only thing I'm not liking so far is that I have to wait. I'm already crafting adventure outlines. You need to hurry. I should be nearly debt free by August and I want to be able to buy some stuff!
And hurry I am... but it's still going to be a bit. I know a lot of people have waited a long time for this (and I'm one of them), but I really feel the need to take the time to do it right, instead of rushing to just get it done. (Not that I think anyone is really encouraging me to do a rush job -- but timeliness is a sensitive issue for some WotA backers and for good reason, so I do want to address it periodically).
Hi Owen-Has there been any further thoughts or developments in terms of a Kickstarter for this project?
There has, though we still aren't ready for an official announcement. I think it's safe to say "We're 99% sure we're going to do a Kickstarter," but that's the beginning of that process, not the end.
From a purely practical point of view, we need to do a budget, set a funding goal, set stretch goals, probably make a video... a lot of work goes into a well-produced Kickstarter campaign, above and beyond the work for the project you are raising funds for. That's neither free nor instant, and we need to balance proving we can look professional with not adding needless costs to our budget on this.
On top of that, in this case the book is going forward whether we fund a Kickstarter or not, because we owe our pre-order customers the book they paid for. So we need to look at what book we can do on our current budget, vs. what book we can do if we get the funding we want, and balance those considerations. Print quality is likely one area where a Kickstarter will be a big help. Art is another. For example, I don't particularly like the cover we have available right now as the iconic image of this project (though it's well done in its own right). But we do have it, and it's paid for. So a Kickstarter would help cover the costs of a new cover piece that better represents what SGG wants WotA to be.
But there are also writing and development costs, and that's another area where we need to decide for certain what we are doing before we ask anyone else for any more money. The Augmentation rules being more flexible and expansive than the original Mutation rules are a good example of this. I *could* just finish the rules chapter I was given, slap it into a draft, and call it done. I've decided I can make those rules better, more tied into the Pathfinder rules, and more flexible. But that takes time, and for a writer time is money.
Now for this exact section I'm pretty well committed to the expanded version at this point -- but there are lots of other rules sections and we'll need to decide what we are updating no matter what, and what we can only manage to take another pass on if we have a successful Kickstarter. It's the different between "a" WotA book, and "the" WotA book, from my point of view.
So those details are being worked on, and THAT takes time. We've more than doubled our number of planning calls and communications as we work on this, and I have to juggle that against my existing duties as a freelancer for other companies, as the person who writes or develops nearly all of our weekly content, and as the overseer of Dungeonaday.com. Both SGG and I have existing obligations, and I can't let those falter either.
So work has been done on planning a potential Kickstarter... but it's going to be a while yet.
For example, I don't particularly like the cover we have available right now as the iconic image of this project (though it's well done in its own right).
That's good to hear. I wasn't a fan of the original cover.
The Augmentation rules being more flexible and expansive than the original Mutation rules are a good example of this. I *could* just finish the rules chapter I was given, slap it into a draft, and call it done. I've decided I can make those rules better, more tied into the Pathfinder rules, and more flexible. But that takes time, and for a writer time is money.
Huzzah! That is great to hear Owen. I'd much rather you take your time and come out with a product that reflects SGG's long history of fun and imaginative products. I also appreciate you taking the time to post on the forums as much as you do. Thanks!
I'm digging the Augmentation rules so far. Can't wait to see the finished product :)
Hi Owen,
I never pre-ordered WotA ... but was always interested/curious about it ... it's very nice to see that it is in SGG's and your capable hands ... and having said all that, I am definitely interested in WotA and its eventual Kickstarter. (And like Dark Mistress I too should have some extra funds around March/April). ;)
PS: Owen, I'm going to send you an IM (so as not to threadjack this thread).
Regards,
Dean
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Hey folks, time for the weekly update!
It looks like we have a proposed timeline for getting WotA written, though we're going to see if we stick to the first section of it before we announce anything about when we hope to have a Kickstarter and/or go to press. I have been in contact with some potential freelancers (and will continue to contact them in the weeks ahead), and Hyrum Savage is working on a line to get cover art we feel better represents what we want this book to be.
Some early design element choices ARE getting pinned down now. The classes are definitely going to be based on the 6 Anachronistic Adventurer character classes (daredevil, enforcer, investigator, luminary, sensitive, tough) and a selection of built-in archetype-like options (which may be called archetypes, or since they work a little differently than normal archetypes in that every class gets one automatically, may be called backgrounds, criterion, occupations, paradigms, or even specializations. But essentially a class represents a broad set of abilities and abilities (enforcers are professional warriors who keep calm in the face of adversity, toughs are brutes who can take a licking and keep on ticking, investigators use their powerful intellects to solve problems, and so on) while a background is more closely related to what you have learned to do as an occupation (ruin raiders specialize in searching through and using relics of old world cities, ESPers develop psychic powers, medicos learn to heal the sick and most efficiently kill the living, and so on). Since any class can take any background, a wide number of combinations are possible (enforcer ruin raiders are guards and guides who take others in and out of old world ruins, investigator ruin raiders seek to find and understand lost technologies, tough ruin raiders are fearless mercenaries who plumb the lost world for whatever they can salvage and sell; while enforcer ESPers are combat psychics, investigator ESPers use their extra senses to learn more about the mysteries that interest them, and tough ESPers are near-madmen who have somehow survived seeing things human minds were not meant to comprehend).
We're also working on the setting. The core setting will likely be generations have the apocalypse, when savages have re-emerged, technology is largely indistinguishable by magic, a few cabals of civilization seek to rebuild the old world, mutants about, and travel is dangerous and difficult), with smaller sections discussing other apocalypse options (zombie outbreaks, Zero Hour campaigns, mystic conjunctions bringing demons out to shatter the world, and so on).
This is all going to take time, but we're getting really excited about how things are shaping up so far!
I'm liking where this is going. Go on...
@ Owen, thanks for the updates and please continue to keep us informed.
Also, please let us know how the people that were not around during the original pre-order can help make this project happen.
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Hey all, it's time for another update! Rather than a rules teaser or discussion of scheduling, this time I'm going to share the (unedited, undeveloped, subject to change) introduction to the Progress Level chapter. Progress Levels are going to help define which characters are familiar with what kinds of technology, as well as what sorts of topics their skills and backgrounds cover. Characters may gain proficiency in multiple PLs (though some campaigns may limit those options), allowing them to easily use different levels of technology and apply their skills to common issues of that level of civilization.
Progress Levels and Proficiencies
The world of Warlords of the Apocalypse is one where the most advanced weapons ever conceived by mortal minds may be found in use side-by-side with stone spears and wooden clubs. The few bunkers that survived the Endless Night and enclaves that continued advanced science occasionally have devices that can master lightning, create plasma, or even control gravity – while some cities are overrun by primitive tribes who barely remember how to make fire. Cultures run the gamut from Neolithic to Nuclear, and within those cultures characters have familiarity with different technologies, weapons, armor, and vehicles. These different levels of technological advancement are represented by Progress Levels (or PL), and range from PL 0 (Stone Age) to PL 8 (the far-futuristic Energy Age). Cultures, technology, and even skills and proficiencies are rated in PL, defining which characters are comfortable flint-napping, which know how to drive a stick-shift, and which recognize a gravity generator when they see one. Characters dealing with technology levels they are not familiar with (either above or below their own PL proficiency) suffer nonproficiency penalties, and sometimes must risk the Experimentations and Mishaps table (see Hazards for more information on PL, Experimentations and Mishaps).
Every character is assumed to be proficient with a single PL, representing the PL of their background experience. When a character gains simple weapons or martial weapons, check their PL to see what weapons are included in those categories at that PL. Additionally, basic familiarity with all common armor, vehicles, and gear common at that PL is included with proficiency in the PL, and exactly what a skill covers can be influenced by PL. For example, a character with PL 5 proficiency understands the basic use of an information-age modern computer, but can’t even put on a full suit of plate mail without some trial-and-error or instruction. Conversely, a character from a tribal group of lake-vikings familiar with PL 3 technology can use a block and tackle, light a hooded lantern, and use thieves’ tools with no special instruction, but won’t immediately recognize the function of a modern lighter. Similarly, a mutant savage from a herd that has forgotten all technology above making fire knows how to read which wolf is the alpha male of a pack by making a Knowledge (royalty) check, while a scientist from an enclave that has been kept safe and taught advanced lore by computers and machines knows how to use Knowledge (royalty) to navigate the politics of a democracy or even a university administration.
Very cool! Sounds great!
The idea of progress levels looks awesome Owen. "and sometimes must risk the Experimentations and Mishaps table" - as a long-time GM, I live for this kind of thing :) This product just keeps getting better and better. Thanks for the update! As an aside, I bought the Hellion class today and really like it. I don't know how you Geniuses keep doing it.
Hey,
Where are our updates? :)
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Hey folks!
Sorry the weekly update got away from me. It’s not that we don’t have anything to say, its just that in early Feb I enjoyed my 22nd wedding anniversary and two days later my wife’s birthday, and I didn’t manage my spare time well enough to get a note out by yesterday.
Two things have moved forward recently, though neither is particularly interesting from an observer’s point of view. The first is that we’ve had some of those internal discussions I’ve been mentioning would have to happen before the book got too far in the redesign, about what exactly we want Warlords of the Apocalypse to be. The end result is that while details are still being pounded out, we want this book to be a PA toolkit for running 100% Pathfinder compatible post-apocalypse campaigns.
If you want entirely human survivors fighting it out with gas-guzzlers in a parched wasteland of road wars, desperate communities coming together to fight off the risen dead zombies, barbarians and sorcerers battling it out with cyborgs and supercomputers hundreds of years after magic returned and destroyed the world, wandering mercenaries moving from bunkers to tradetowns to ruins in a world that ended just as the Atomic Age got started, or a single massive megaplex moaning under the weight of constant mutant uprisings and being the last bastion of civilization, we want to give you the rules you need. There are already numerous keywords in place in Pathfinder to help identify what kinds of powers are appropriate for what settings (extraordinary, spell-like, and supernatural abilities, as well as spells themselves and psionics if you use the excellent Dreamscarred Press material), and the addition of Progress Levels will make technology easy to pigeon-hole as well.
And of course if you want to throw in everything plus time rifts, nanotech swarms, orbital mind control lasers, and demons, we think we can handle that too!
The second bit of movement is work on a new logo, which we’re liking the direction of but not yet ready to reveal.
I’ll consider this LAST week’s update, and get you all another one alter on THIS week.
Congratulations Owen and thanks for the update. Having a PA toolkit for running 100% Pathfinder compatible post-apocalypse campaigns is something I've wanted since discovering Pathfinder.
If you want entirely human survivors fighting it out with gas-guzzlers in a parched wasteland of road wars, desperate communities coming together to fight off the risen dead zombies, barbarians and sorcerers battling it out with cyborgs and supercomputers hundreds of years after magic returned and destroyed the world, wandering mercenaries moving from bunkers to tradetowns to ruins in a world that ended just as the Atomic Age got started, or a single massive megaplex moaning under the weight of constant mutant uprisings and being the last bastion of civilization,
Will the materials give some examples of post-apocalyptic settings for GM's to play with? I really like the concepts you put forth in your last post. It would be be really cool (from a GM perspective) to have each one fleshed out a bit in the final product.
I see you mentioned that you'll be able to run a variety of different games with this book buti was under the impression that the original book was gonna include its own setting.
I think having just the ideas would be great, having both the ideas and the setting would be even better, having just the setting would be good but may leave people disappointed.
Will this book also include its own setting or will it just have the rules for how to run PA games? If I were to guess id guess just the rules.
... barbarians and sorcerers battling it out with cyborgs and supercomputers hundreds of years after magic returned and destroyed the world...
Add mutations, psionics, and ancient tech and you got my future campaign.
I have always loved the mix of old and new tech.
Thanks!
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Mutations and ancient tech will absolutely be included.
A native set of psychic powers rules will be included, that is designed to be totally separate from Dreamscarred Press's psionics (they don't do the same things), and can co-exist in a campaign with psionics. There will be some level of psionics support, but I don't know how much yet.
We're going to have a chapter that sets up some campaign settings. I'm voting for Pick Your Apocalypse as a working chapter title. It'll outline some background, adventure seeds, and rules appropriate for each apocalypse setting. So if you want to play in the Plan Z setting it'll talk about that setting, tell you which rules to use, and give you some adventure ideas.
Of course since the book is designed to be a toolkit, you can tweak each setting. Plan Z doesn't include psionics or magic, but YOURS certainly could.
Exactly what we are doing in terms of an "assumed setting" throughout the book is still being discussed. But unlike say the Pathfinder Core Rulebook (which has an assumed setting, but actually discusses it in very little details -- as those are quite rightly covered in the Golarion books), we will definitely have setting write-ups for more than one style of Post-Apocalypse play.
Obviously there is often overlap in these things. You can add psychic powers to a zombie apocalypse, or a Road Wars car-combat setting, or a Cyborgs and Sorcerers magic far-future. We'll talk a bit about how to do that, and why to do that, and give at least one setting outline that does include the rules.
At least, that's the plan.