A) As bad as forgetting any other element in your design. Not an auto-reject or disqualification situation, but not helping either. It just indicates you didn't do your homework...or you're lacking in your attention to detail when you're expected to put your best work forward.
B) No. You get one chance to submit a perfect entry, and that's it. If you don't make it through on the remaining awesomeness of your submission, try again next year.
It might not be a lack of doing homework or not paying attention to details. It might just be terror to make a mistake (thank you Clark :-P ) and he thought that repeating the name of the item twice in the entry was a mistake the judges would frown on.
Not that I would know anything about that...
A) As bad as forgetting any other element in your design. Not an auto-reject or disqualification situation, but not helping either. It just indicates you didn't do your homework...or you're lacking in your attention to detail when you're expected to put your best work forward.
Unless adding the title to your body of text would put you over the word limit... in that case it is an auto-rejection (hopefully you were not right up against the word-limit with out your title in the body text).
It might not be a lack of doing homework or not paying attention to details.
A quick look through any of the Top 32 items from prior years (or, at least the majority of them) would indicate that the title of the item is also included in the body text of a post. If folks are so new to the contest that they also haven't figured out how messageboard posting works on the site yet, they should spend time familiarizing themselves and asking for insight into that before submitting their item. In short, there are always opportunities for doing your homework and paying attention to detail on this particular topic. But that's just my opinion.
Unless adding the title to your body of text would put you over the word limit... in that case it is an auto-rejection....
That's true. In that event it would be an automatic disqualification.
How is someone supposed to know those weren't added after they were voted in the top 32?
All I want to say is that someone might be incline to think that just writing the item name in the title is what is intended of us.
Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8
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How is someone supposed to know those weren't added after they were voted in the top 32?
All I want to say is that someone might be incline to think that just writing the item name in the title is what is intended of us.
In the rules for round one, which can be found under the link, "Round 1: Open Call Rules", it has the rules for presentation. I've bolded the pertinent parts, but otherwise, it is as presented on the page.
PRESENTATION: Use the presentation for magic items found in the Wondrous Items section of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook (page 496). The subject line of the submission form should contain only the name of the item. The body of the form should include only the complete item text in the appropriate format (this means the item name will be included in the body as well). DO NOT INCLUDE ANY PERSONALLY IDENTIFYING INFORMATION SUCH AS NAME, AVATAR NAME, ADDRESS, PHONE NUMBER, AND SO ON IN THE SUBMISSION ITSELF. Your paizo.com account provides all of the information we need; repeating it in the submission may be grounds for disqualification.
It is in the written rules. The written rules are listed as the rules for round one. The link is on the right hand side, but it isn't small, and it is under all the other rules, also listed on the right hand side. It states in the rules how it should be formatted. They even give the template for the formatting.
The RPGSS team have tried very hard to present the information. People make mistakes; it happens. It's unfortunate, but please don't imply that the information wasn't made available.
I am not trying to but blame on other people for my actions. I am just trying to put things into perspective.
I am a grown up and can take all the blame for my actions, but I can also write the reasons why I engaged in such actions.
And this is just a game, no need to get dramatic about it. I just want to say how I saw it all. I hope I didn't offend anyone. If I offended judges I am sorry, I didn't mean it.
I hope this clears things up.
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I am not trying to but blame on other people for my actions. I am just trying to put things into perspective.
I am a grown up and can take all the blame for my actions, but I can also write the reasons why I engaged in such actions.
And this is just a game, no need to get dramatic about it. I just want to say how I saw it all. I hope I didn't offend anyone. If I offended judges I am sorry, I didn't mean it.
I hope this clears things up.
I certainly wasn’t offended and perhaps I stated my point a bit too strenuously. Obviously I can’t speak for the judges, though they seem made of pretty sturdy stuff.
This was entirely my fault, I didn't notice that particular rule until after posting. In my own rather meagerly defense it does seem silly to put the name twice. At least it's not instant disqualification. Well, here's hoping. Thanks for the imput everyone, some a little more harsh than I was expecting, but thanks anyway.
I am sorry if I seemed harsh, or dramatic, that was not my intention, though I realize it may have come off that way. I was really just responding to, “How is someone supposed to know those weren't added after they were voted in the top 32?” though even then apparently I over answered the question.
The good news is, next year, this will be seem like second nature for you. The bad news is, if you’re anything like me, you’ll second guess yourself anyway.
I wish you both all the best in the contest.
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Is there an Offence Scale, that judges use? maybe that is peeking behind the curtain in the Emerald City and I should refrain from such a bold act... but the temptation is there to draw it back just the same.
could we scale these offences?
Missing the title in the message body ... scale 1-10 ? vs. say .. bad item cost calculation....1-10?
or are there any distictions between the two .. where a mistake is a mistake and that is that?
I read an item submitted last year that was woefully miscalculated and discussed in length, but got a pass ... so i was just wondering?
I don't think there is any such scale. Remember, they're trying to find the best designers, not the best item. Something that has a lot of "mojo" or really cool "fluff" may well get the nod over something that has more technical proficiency.
I could put a perfect item together that, say, uses haste to give me one additional standard action every round but that's not exactly breaking new ground with the rules (and is in fact backtracking). Chances are my item isn't going to get in vs. something that may be more exciting even if there are some technical flaws.
Last year, at least one item, for example, had the name of the magic item in all caps, but it got in anyway.
Now, with the open voting, the question is even more up in the air, I think. Some people are going to focus more on the technical aspects of the formatting, some will focus on the writing itself, some will focus on the game mechanics... If you give me a really cool item, I'm probably willing to overlook the spells not being italicized, for example, or the title line being missing. In the end that causes problems for the designers and while that takes them away from working on other things, it's not something I personally see as a huge issue. If you can't tell "its" from "it's," though, you're going to have a very hard time getting my vote.
Also, while it may not be a big issue in this case(due to missing names not being uncommon), be careful about revealing ANY details about your submission, even ones unrelated to the actual item. Forgetting an element in your submission may be overlooked; breaking anonymity will not be.
I don't think there is any such scale. Remember, they're trying to find the best designers, not the best item. Something that has a lot of "mojo" or really cool "fluff" may well get the nod over something that has more technical proficiency.
I could put a perfect item together that, say, uses haste to give me one additional standard action every round but that's not exactly breaking new ground with the rules (and is in fact backtracking). Chances are my item isn't going to get in vs. something that may be more exciting even if there are some technical flaws.
Last year, at least one item, for example, had the name of the magic item in all caps, but it got in anyway.
Now, with the open voting, the question is even more up in the air, I think. Some people are going to focus more on the technical aspects of the formatting, some will focus on the writing itself, some will focus on the game mechanics... If you give me a really cool item, I'm probably willing to overlook the spells not being italicized, for example, or the title line being missing. In the end that causes problems for the designers and while that takes them away from working on other things, it's not something I personally see as a huge issue. If you can't tell "its" from "it's," though, you're going to have a very hard time getting my vote.
That's a bit of a relief to hear for my neurotic self, as far as the general attitude goes. I also made a formatting error around the same level as "forgetting to repeat the item name again in the body text", which I'm leaving vague for the sake of preserving anonymity, and as I spent a considerable amount of time working out the formatting religiously otherwise I feel like a bit of a heel for making such a rookie messageboard mistake.
I do not wish to break anonymity .... I was just curious as I am, in earnest, learning the ropes one painful lesson at a time. I shall withhold any further comment, that could be considered revealing, until the voting has ended.
Because, you never know .....
"I'm going to eat you little fishy..."
(Cat, Red Dwarf)It's almost feeding time!
So there's lots of talk about leaving the item name out of the body of the submission, and that's got me wondering: Has anybody made the opposite mistake? Could you forget to put the name of the item in the title field, or would the forum software stop you if you tried to submit it like that?
could we scale these offences?
Missing the title in the message body ... scale 1-10 ? vs. say .. bad item cost calculation....1-10?
If I were to scale them myself, I'd say missing the title in the message body is a 5-point offense. Bad, but not worth an immediate vote for the other item. A poor cost calculation would be more of a 1-point offense. Irritating, but not likely to come into play unless the items are otherwise really close. (of course, it depends on the scope of the error, too. An item priced at 200,000gp instead of 200gp is way different than an item priced at 2000gp instead of 5000gp)
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Sometimes I forget when I read this forum that Paizo is doing this as a means of finding Freelancers, not as an outlet for players to be creative in a system we enjoy.
To that end I want to respect the judges and their rule, and point out my own experiences as a writer for an Ad Agency. As the creative lead on several clients, I sometimes have to manage Freelance writers. Freelancers get held to a different standard, at least in my profession, than fulltime writers.
They don't get the benefit of the doubt on their creative, like I do. If you send me a portfolio to show off your chops as a freelance writer, it can't be filled with typos or missing elements. Freelancers have to be buttoned up, they have to dot their "i's" and cross their "t's".
Why? Because we're paying them to do things fast and professionally, because we don't have time or the resources to do it in house. Now in Advertising, freelancers get paid a premium because of those expectations, I don't know how Paizo treats their freelancers lol.
So when you see them picking nits at your submissions for typos or missing components, it's because they're trying to figure out if you've got what it takes to be a Freelancer for them.
If you don't care about being a freelancer for them, don't worry about getting your item torn apart for being over word count or misspelled. You're doing this for fun, pay attention to what they say about your item's creativity, usefulness and balance—that's what will be important to your home game you introduce it to. Just don't expect to advance, because you're not working toward the same end goal as the judges (to create a professional network).
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Nice points ...... Probably the best perspective I have seen. I have been a RPGer most of my life .... For longer than I would like to admit. I do this because I want to prove to myself that I know what it takes to create these things and I have interesting ideas that gamers will enjoy.
I am taking all criticism at face value and I will learn from it. I may have created many campaign ideas and hooks as a DM, but this contest sharpens my pencil on how to present those ideas.
I am doing it for fun, but there is a competitive demon in me as well that wants to do well and maybe get recognized for having interesting ideas.
I think this may be the case for the majority of us.
Precisely, Blunttusk.
It has been said many times that RPG Superstar is really an extended job interview. If you are not interested in the job, you can afford to be a little more laid back - but at the same time, realize that there are people out there who are in this to make the transition to a career as a professional rpg writer.
And make no mistake - this is one of the best ways to break into the industry, not just working for Paizo but also a lot of 3rd party publishers. Compare the list of former finalists to the credits of the rpg books on your shelf. Odds are, you'll find a lot of matches.
So there's lots of talk about leaving the item name out of the body of the submission, and that's got me wondering: Has anybody made the opposite mistake? Could you forget to put the name of the item in the title field, or would the forum software stop you if you tried to submit it like that?
Impossible. The title is a required field, so if it's blank the post won't submit. There has to be at least one character in the title field.
So there's lots of talk about leaving the item name out of the body of the submission, and that's got me wondering: Has anybody made the opposite mistake? Could you forget to put the name of the item in the title field, or would the forum software stop you if you tried to submit it like that?Impossible. The title is a required field, so if it's blank the post won't submit. There has to be at least one character in the title field.
Hmm... can you preview without a title? If so, that may actually be a good way to safely format, edit and preview what the final submission will look like safely, and only put in the title when you're ready to submit.
So there's lots of talk about leaving the item name out of the body of the submission, and that's got me wondering: Has anybody made the opposite mistake? Could you forget to put the name of the item in the title field, or would the forum software stop you if you tried to submit it like that?Impossible. The title is a required field, so if it's blank the post won't submit. There has to be at least one character in the title field.
Except the judges have entries like that every year.
Except the judges have entries like that every year.So there's lots of talk about leaving the item name out of the body of the submission, and that's got me wondering: Has anybody made the opposite mistake? Could you forget to put the name of the item in the title field, or would the forum software stop you if you tried to submit it like that?Impossible. The title is a required field, so if it's blank the post won't submit. There has to be at least one character in the title field.
No, they have entries where the name of the item isn't in the body of the post. You can't submit a post without anything in the title field.
Now I have a question, I am using word, when I copy and paste into Paizo all my bold words are no longer bolded, any fix?
[ b]-Tags!
Nothing else you can do Red-Assassin.
Darn,
thanks Franz
Now I have a question, I am using word, when I copy and paste into Paizo all my bold words are no longer bolded, any fix?
I know that if you save a word document as HTML, you can open it up with a text editor to get the <b></b> tags... but the forum code uses [ B][/B] tags, which are different. I guess you could do the HTML thing, then find + replace the <'s with ['s?
EDIT: Ninja'ed!
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If you want to make absolutely sure, copy/paste the official template and write directly in that.
If you go to the rules, it gives you a template with all the relevant forum code in.
You can type the tags into Word as you go, and then copy/paste to enter, or you can paste the template into Word and fill in as appropriate. Either works.
Good luck
Just took awhile, for me to have to [b][/b] everything
Thanks for the heads up.
Remember to italicise where needed too!
I made the same mistake (not putting the name in the body) because I assumed the Official Rules were the official rules. I don't post a lot on these forums, but I read the "Official Rules" very carefully and followed every link and made sure my submission followed the format in the Core Rulebook. I understand the argument that I should have read through every possible link on this page or I should be more familiar with how forum posting typically works, but I disagree. I don't think it fair that I and others will be punished or rejected for relying only on the official rules and not noticing a secondary rule set (which I didn't notice).
I don't know how much clearer they can make this. From the official round 1 rules:
The body of the form should include only the complete item text in the appropriate format (this means the item name will be included in the body as well).
Unless people are having a hard time understanding what is a title and what is the body of a submission.
Gah! I did this, too. I originally had it formatted correctly and then removed it at the last moment for some stupid reason. Well, guess it's another year down the drain.
Dagesk, Ben, and anyone else with that issue, remember: while it might be a mark against you, remember that it is only that. A single mark. An awesome item with one or two issues (such as the title only in the header) can still get through. Keep your chin up, there is still hope.
There are worse mistakes to have made.
Gah! I did this, too. I originally had it formatted correctly and then removed it at the last moment for some stupid reason. Well, guess it's another year down the drain.
No need to be that dramatic about it... It doesn't disqualify you (as long as you were under word count before you deleted it and didn't add enough words after deleting it that adding the title back in would take you over word count); and I would guess that if your item is otherwise solid (or dare I say superstar) the voting public will be willing to overlook your formatting error.
Exactly, it's not like it's the end of the world or anything....well at least not til Friday, anywho. ;)
Sometimes I forget ... item's creativity, usefulness and balance—that's what will be important to your home game you introduce it to. Just don't expect to advance, because you're not working toward the same end goal as the judges (to create a professional network).
Thanks for the professional insight, Blunttusk.
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I made the same mistake (not putting the name in the body) because I assumed the Official Rules were the official rules. I don't post a lot on these forums, but I read the "Official Rules" very carefully and followed every link and made sure my submission followed the format in the Core Rulebook. I understand the argument that I should have read through every possible link on this page or I should be more familiar with how forum posting typically works, but I disagree. I don't think it fair that I and others will be punished or rejected for relying only on the official rules and not noticing a secondary rule set (which I didn't notice).
Ben, you are not the first person to post something along those lines. But the thing is, if you want to be a professional writer, "I don't think it's fair" will get you absolutely nowhere. All that matters is hard work and accomplishing the task you have been given.
Paizo isn't having this contest to be fair - they are looking for people they can trust to get their assignments in on time, without error.
I suggest you scroll up this thread and read what Blunttusk posted. Alternatively, have a look at THIS THREAD and pay extra attention to the attitude that Ravening is displaying. Notice how Clark Peterson compliments him on it? There is a reason for that.
No, they have entries where the name of the item isn't in the body of the post. You can't submit a post without anything in the title field.Except the judges have entries like that every year.So there's lots of talk about leaving the item name out of the body of the submission, and that's got me wondering: Has anybody made the opposite mistake? Could you forget to put the name of the item in the title field, or would the forum software stop you if you tried to submit it like that?Impossible. The title is a required field, so if it's blank the post won't submit. There has to be at least one character in the title field.
Sorry. Had to turn my glasses right side up; everything was upside down. ;)
Translated -- I got confused. :)
On the subject of things to know as a freelancer, here's a great article I read this morning that I think would be worth a read for most of us:
http://critical-hits.com/2012/12/19/freelancer-chronicles-the-coast-wizards -and-i-some-lessons/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_camp aign=Feed%3A+CriticalHits+%28Critical+Hits%29&utm_content=FaceBook
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On the subject of things to know as a freelancer, here's a great article I read this morning that I think would be worth a read for most of us:
Thanks thunderspirit, I didn't even realize that didn't link itself.
On the subject of things to know as a freelancer, here's a great article I read this morning that I think would be worth a read for most of us:
That is an awesome article. It's amusing, too: I was just mulling over the Word issue this morning; I've always been a champion of OpenOffice and the like, but sometimes a commercial product is just the way to go.
That is an awesome article. It's amusing, too: I was just mulling over the Word issue this morning; I've always been a champion of OpenOffice and the like, but sometimes a commercial product is just the way to go.On the subject of things to know as a freelancer, here's a great article I read this morning that I think would be worth a read for most of us:
I don't think it's a matter of being a commercial product, but of being industry standard. Sure, Open Office can open word docs, but by the sheer nature of being a different program it can't maintain all of the features and formatting(likewise opening .odfs in Word). Point is, you want to use what the professionals use - not because it's better exactly, but because it's what the pros use, and you're trying to be a pro.
It's not just that, though. Even when using OpenOffice, I use Excel and Word format by default because they're the standard, so being a standard isn't the problem.
The problem is that some things become extremely difficult, either to do or figure out how to do. Like creating proper en and em dashes - that's a nightmare in OO. Or replacing paragraph ends with spaces to rejoin split lines (which is at least possible), or doing the reverse, which so far I have not been able to figure out in OO.
So, I think it's time to nut up and buy a copy of Word for my home computer (it comes standard at work, but that doesn't help me at home).
I've been using Open Office exclusively for the past several years while freelancing for Paizo. I haven't any trouble so far in adapting. The proper way to do an em-dash vs. an en-dash is fairly simple. Just type a word followed by a space and then a dash followed by another word and hit space again, it'll transform to an en-dash for you. Whereas, if you type a word followed by two dashes (and no spaces before, in between, or afterward) followed by another word and then a space, it'll transform to an em-dash.
I'm not sure what you mean about replacing paragraph ends with spaces to rejoin split lines. Creating paragraphs or backing up to bring an orphaned line back in alignment with it hasn't present a problem for me so far. Of course, some of this is probably made easier because I use the various styles that come as part of Paizo's templates. Perhaps all those elements are already prepared within the style itself. Either way, I've been using it for quite some time with no ill effects in word processing.
The one area where I do sometimes have concerns is with Excel files. The Open Office version of Excel doesn't always handle or interpret formulas all that effectively when it comes to translating null values. That said, I'm still able to use Paizo's stat-block spreadsheet with a fair amount of efficiency. I just have to recognize what pieces to overlook on some formula results when I'm transcribing the Excel data into my Word document in the form of a stat-block.
Just type a word followed by a space and then a dash followed by another word and hit space again, it'll transform to an en-dash for you. Whereas, if you type a word followed by two dashes (and no spaces before, in between, or afterward) followed by another word and then a space, it'll transform to an em-dash.
Cool. I'll have to try that, but it seems klunky when you want to just create the dash; instead of just inserting an en or em dash like I can in Word, I have to either bring up the "insert special character" dialog or type extra spaces and multiple dashes and go back and delete the extra spaces.
Sure, I know it sounds pedantic, but since I touch type at a reasonable speed, kludgey junk like that is a huge annoyance, as is breaking with the keyboard to use the mouse :)
I'm not sure what you mean about replacing paragraph ends with spaces to rejoin split lines. Creating paragraphs or backing up to bring an orphaned line back in alignment with it hasn't present a problem for me so far.
Virtually every monster I create is custom due to the kind of campaign I run, which means I'm bringing in text from either a PDF or a web page. In either event, there's quite often one of two problems: lots of extra lines due to double-spacing, or excess line breaks due to PDF formatting. In Word, I can just replace '^p' with ' ' (and in OpenOffice, just turn on regexp replacement and replace '$' with ' '), but I can't do the reverse - if I want to *create* line breaks, in Word I would just do a find/replace of ' ' with '^p' to add line breaks where I want, but OpenOffice has no similar facility I can find, since I have not been able to find an OpenOffice equivalent to the special characters.
That's what I mean :)
Writing from scratch, on the other hand, I've never found to be much of an issue, though I usually start with a text editor to avoid getting distracted by Premature Formatitis :)