Handling horses - what to do with them then going into the dungeon?

[Tierre]

Hi all.

I am not sure if this is the right subforum but it seems so:)

So the question is - how people usually handle horses? We have a dungeon and taking 5 horses there is a bad idea. Leaving them up without protection - not good as well. I think of hiring an unskilled hireling to stay with the horses - 1 sp/day (will pay 3 for danger though he will need his own horse). It is not applicable in every region - so what people use to ensure their horses survival and well-being?

Maybe there is some cool spell for that? Or an item? Or hireling is my only good choice?

[Ciaran Barnes]

A hireling or three would be a great choice. My group's actual practice is to leave them unattended. Its easier for us, and the DM, so I guess we collectively ignore factors like theft, starvation, and wandering monsters

[blackbloodtroll]

Hosteling Armor.

[Saganen Hellheart]

Hirelings. Make the playing much more realistic. Buy people to follow you on trips. Guard the camp. Make the food. Carry the tents and food. For hunting and fishing. For guiding.

Once the PC's go into the dungeon.. The hirelings make a well hidden camp close to it.. maybe a day or so..

It also makes roleplaying more active while dungeon crawling.

[LazarX]

Ciaran Barnes wrote:

A hireling or three would be a great choice. My group's actual practice is to leave them unattended. Its easier for us, and the DM, so I guess we collectively ignore factors like theft, starvation, and wandering monsters

Well they shouldn't starve unless you're spending actual days and weeks there. On most occasions you're not going to be there for an entire day.

On the other hand sometimes the most practical option is to walk.

[blackbloodtroll]

What does the party consist of?

What level?

Is this an AP, or custom campaign?

[Eric Mason 37]

A combat trained mount can be told to guard. You can leave them fodder, and water, and the herd will do its best to protect itself. You can also have other trained animals too. Back in 3.5 I had trained dogs that also stayed with the horses, and helped out with watches. A large group of war trained creatures is fairly good at deterring low level threats.

[blackbloodtroll]

Get together, put some time and money in, and build a Leshy to watch the horses.

[danielc]

We always went with a couple of hirelings. We would pay them well and even gave them a small token "reward" when we returned to camp. Later, when the one character took leadership we had some of the followers watch the camp.

[Touc]

At low levels, a hireling. Otherwise, you risk any number of predators, bandits, or in our case, vengeful bad guys when the party flushed out a base of mites who, upon exiting their home, saw unguarded tied up horses and vengefully made short work of the poor beasts.

[Booksy]

Our wizard used a designated bag of holding, with a hose sticking out the top of the bag for air. Then we'd take the horses out and walk them in bigger rooms, brush, feed, etc. Cleaning out the 'stalls' was easier too, 1) take out all horses, 2) invert bag, 3) shake. Our GM ruled you could 'not' use quick draw to pull out horses XD and that they needed time to re-adjust to normal space before riding them. We felt it was better then 'tie them to that tree, we won't be long'.

[Javaed]

Alternatively, use your horse as traps. Paint or tattoo "Don't Steal Me" onto the side of your mounts in the common languages of the region. Cast Explosive Runes on the horse. Cover the words with a blanket / saddle when you're riding the mount, reveal the words when you head into a dungeon.

[Orthos]

Won't that just blow off the back half of the horse?

[Lamontius]

A Druid can have the "Hide Campsite" or "Campfire Wall" spells, and there are some arcane spells in Knights of the Inner Sea for shrinking down mounts and turning them into a little statues/figurines that you can put into your bag/backpack for safekeeping, stuff like that.

Also, small characters, medium-sized mounts. This is why you go with a Halfling Cavalier, because then you ride your mount IN the dungeon.

Other than that, yeah, buy a couple of trained dogs with Guard or use some runes to keep your mount-staked area guarded.

[Shalafi2412]

If a definition of dingeon were given people might be able to explain how a horse might be able to enter one.

[Orthos]

Lamontius wrote:

Also, small characters, medium-sized mounts. This is why you go with a Halfling Cavalier, because then you ride your mount IN the dungeon.

I've had an idea for a Kobold Cavalier with a Spider mount for some time.

[Javaed]

Orthos wrote:

Won't that just blow off the back half of the horse?

Not if you use some kind of energy protection on the horse. You'd also want to make sure the words are small enough that the reader would have to be close to the horse to make out what they say but of some bright color so that they catch a person's attention.

If somebody is sharp eyed enough to read the text at a distance, I'd imagine a horse that randomly explodes and remains unharmed would be disconcerting enough to cause them to leave the animals alone. And if not, dealing with people brave enough to steal such an animal should make for a fun side quest =).

[Lamontius]

Orthos wrote:

I've had an idea for a Kobold Cavalier with a Spider mount for some time.

Mounted Fury Barbarian!

AM KOBOLD

[thistledown]

BTW, there's a reason mules were used in mines instead of horses - when a horse gets interested in something (or spooked), it jerks its head up and bashes the ceiling. A mule or donkey will instead drop its head down.

A wartrained mount, maybe not so much an issue?

[Booksy]

Kobold Mounted on Spider Fury Barbarian!!! This must be done!!!

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Hirelings or cohorts watch them at camp.

[Tierre]

Well it's for Rise if the Runelords AP and characters are level 1. 5 of them actually - Human fighter, half elf ranger, elf wizard, also aasimar Desna cleric and tiefling rogue with Desna birthmark - they make funny conversations:). So i am going to shove them into ancient mine from the beginner box with a modification - this was a dwarven gold mine up until 5 years ago , then in the time of Late Unpleasantries mine collapsed and only 1 dwarf survived to tell that collpsing killed all of them - dwarf was a cleric and couldn't sense any life beyond the rock debries. (Of course it was caused by the Kourzug awakening and there is actually a troglodyte infestation now). Now dwarves sent 2 scouts there and they never returned. So PCs will save 2 scouts and will find that debries are partially cleared and will be able to see a part of the mine with some trogs there:) I am not really sure yet if i am better to use kobolds there actually.
But regarding horses - we have no druid and ranger can't do anything yet. Also they don't have money to buy war-trained mounts. So a hireling will do. But for the future - i guess without manoured bag of holding (Greenpeace won't be pleased ;) ) i will have to stick with few follovers. Fighter is going to take leadership at 7th level - and i think he will become a master of fort Rannock... if he survives:).
Thanks for all your advice.

[lemeres]

Shalafi2412 wrote:

If a definition of dingeon were given people might be able to explain how a horse might be able to enter one.

With enough ranks in escape artist and cheese, you can fit anything anywhere. Oh the horror/romance stories I have read on forums like this.

May I say, having a person walk around with a horse head sticking out of their bag is a hilarious image. Maybe toss the bag into someone's sleeping bag and recreate a scene from the Godfather.

In all seriousness, hirelings are cheap for a reason. For 7 gold, you can hire ten for a week. Otherwise, well, there are about a dozen different spells and different abilities that summon some kind of steed, to avoid worrying about them completely. Not practical for many parties, but open the possibility for hiring a magic user to handle everything and just hang out outside of the dungeon. Might be a better option for those places where "no man fears to tread" and that measly 1 sp per day does not cover it.

[LazarX]

thistledown wrote:

BTW, there's a reason mules were used in mines instead of horses - when a horse gets interested in something (or spooked), it jerks its head up and bashes the ceiling. A mule or donkey will instead drop its head down.

A wartrained mount, maybe not so much an issue?

Mules weren't used for riding in mines, just strictly portage. In fact, they're not generally used for riding at all.

[Grimmy]

Is it really possible to fit a horse in a bag of holding? I always imagined you are still constrained by the size of the opening, extra-dimensional space inside notwithstanding.

[Umbranus]

For my huge cat (mammoth rider) my GM allowed me to buy a ring of sustenance reflavored for using a slot a cat can have. Haven't decided yet which slot to take.
Everything except the armor and amulet slot if still free.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Umbranus wrote:

For my huge cat (mammoth rider) my GM allowed me to buy a ring of sustenance reflavored for using a slot a cat can have. Haven't decided yet which slot to take.

Everything except the armor and amulet slot if still free.

Paw cuff (bracelet) or pay double and make it an unslotted ear piercing.

[Umbranus]

I think a cute bracelet, perhaps with some rose gemstone, is a cool idea for a huge pouncing combat monster.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Umbranus wrote:

I think a cute bracelet, perhaps with some rose gemstone, is a cool idea for a huge pouncing combat monster.

Even hulking combat monsters want to feel pretty.

[vuron]

Personally until mid to high level I just pretty much assume that the PCs are going to actually mount an expedition to the dungeon of choice with a whole host of hirelings and cohorts that are basically there to provide a secure base of operations. Being able to retreat back to somewhat protected campsite where a few soldiers, guard dogs, etc are defending the gear, horses, provisions, etc is quite nice.

That way you can go into the dungeon with a light pack with basic exploration tools (rope, torches, etc) and not be weighed down with a couple of weeks of rations.

Yeah Haversacks remove most of the encumbrance concerns but it's still nice to have a nice warm tent and a hot meal waiting for you after emerging from the dungeons of doom with liberated treasure.

[thejeff]

OTOH, the pile of hirelings and cohorts vastly complicate the logistics if you're going more than a day or so from civilization. There's also the responsibility of protecting them while traveling and if your chosen dungeon has intelligent occupants there's still a decent chance they'll be found by patrols and slaughtered. Anything that provides a decent threat to PCs after the first few levels will massacre a few guard dogs and soldiers.

[Saganen Hellheart]

What vuron said.

It's also far more realistic than 5 men traveling for weeks and into a giant dungeon with all their stuff.

My group in Legacy of Fire has 18 people with them on their way into the mountains to search for dungeons.

[Mark Hoover]

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Umbranus wrote:

I think a cute bracelet, perhaps with some rose gemstone, is a cool idea for a huge pouncing combat monster.

Even hulking combat monsters want to feel pretty.

Rhinestone collar?

[Lamontius]

Mark Hoover wrote:

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Umbranus wrote:

I think a cute bracelet, perhaps with some rose gemstone, is a cool idea for a huge pouncing combat monster.

Even hulking combat monsters want to feel pretty.

Rhinestone collar?

seriously, someone put a bell on that thing

[Michael Sayre]

My GM allowed the metagame artifact from the Artifacts and Legends splat book that lets you store your horse magically inside a clay statue while you're inside dungeons or areas where its implausible to bring a horse. So that worked.

[Kthulhu]

It's going to depend on the dungeon. If you're going to the five room dungeon, you can just tie them up outside and be back before they realize you we're gone. If you're going to Rappan Athuk, you should bring along a few hirelings to take the horses and the news of your death to your surviving relatives.

[Adamantine Dragon]

Horses can be trained, and that would include training them to guard or to wait.

It is not a bad idea for a group of adventurers to hire someone to manage their mounts and beasts of burden.

Right now my active PCs don't have to worry about horses because they either have a special mount or else they don't need a mount. But my PCs who have relied on mounts typically hired someone to manage their horses while they were dungeon crawling or in town. This is where spells like "message" or cheap magical trinkets like the bird token are very useful.

"Hey, we're done! Quit drinking beer in the tavern and bring the horses!"