Just curious really. I am playing a Wizard in a Kingmaker campaign and plan to get, Create Wondrous Items, Create Magical Arms & Armor and Create Construct (Still level 1, just a heavy planner). I know I want to take these, but are other magical item creation feats worth it?
Like Create Wand, Create Ring (I have an arcane bonded ring) and Create Staff; are they worth getting later on?
Scribe Scroll, but you already have that.
Craft Wondrous Item is a bag full of pure win. Even if you don't get fancy and just save cash with it, plus I hear Kingmaker has lots of crafting time available.
Craft Wand is basically just a cash saver, not sure if it's worth the feat, but if you don't know what else to take then maybe this.
Rings, Staves, Rods in my experience are not worth the feats, but YMMV.
Just curious really. I am playing a Wizard in a Kingmaker campaign and plan to get, Create Wondrous Items, Create Magical Arms & Armor and Create Construct (Still level 1, just a heavy planner). I know I want to take these, but are other magical item creation feats worth it?
Like Create Wand, Create Ring (I have an arcane bonded ring) and Create Staff; are they worth getting later on?
In the campaign I am in we have found Craft Arms and Armour and Craft Wonderous item to be very useful. Given the way the campaign is structured you should have plenty of time for crafting. Though I'd be careful about getting too many crafting feats for a single character as you can only be using one at a time and if the GM ups the tempo you will find that at some stages you will be pushed for time.
If possible see if other party members are prepared to take a craft feat or two.
As for your second question.... wands would be useful to give you more utility. As for staffs - how many would a party ever have compared to things like wands or potions.
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I find Magic Arms & Armour and Wondrous Item are the two best feats for most casters and even non-casters.
Seconded.
Just look at where the vast majority of your PC's money is going to be. It's going to be on magic weapons, armor, and tons of wondrous items. This is even more true for a wizard.
Plus, you don't need the Item Creation feat to enspell your arcane item.
==Aelryinth
Craft Wondrous Item totally replaces brew potion. Make Candies of Haste.
Brew Potion is implied to sub for any 1 shot consumable item like that, regardless of form, so no, that won't work.
You use CWI to craft elixirs. if it's a 'spell in a bottle', regardless of bottle, it's a potion.
==Aelryinth
Brew Potion is implied to sub for any 1 shot consumable item like that, regardless of form, so no, that won't work.
You use CWI to craft elixirs. if it's a 'spell in a bottle', regardless of bottle, it's a potion.
==Aelryinth
Yup. gotta make it a CLW X/d item instead. Then its wondrous.
A Ring of Infernal Healing or even Greater Infernal Healing where the spell effect is continuous could be handy.
One reason why I love Cohorts. I can play the Fighter I want and have a Wizard who equips the party for combat.
Craft ring is great, but I never take it. Everyone can only wear two. Instead I just have a ring as a bonded object and use that.
Craft Wondrous is... very wondrous. For a Wizard, you will hardly need arms/armor anyways.
I would get Arms/Armor if I was a Martial type using the Feat to allow magical crafting without being a Caster... or Wondrous Item. Cuz it's that good for everybody.
A Ring of Infernal Healing or even Greater Infernal Healing where the spell effect is continuous could be handy.
One reason why I love Cohorts. I can play the Fighter I want and have a Wizard who equips the party for combat.
That would be a fast healing/1 effect, which I believe is priced at 90k or 45k, I forget which.
==Aelryinth
Brew Potion is implied to sub for any 1 shot consumable item like that, regardless of form, so no, that won't work.
You use CWI to craft elixirs. if it's a 'spell in a bottle', regardless of bottle, it's a potion.
Isn't 'spell in a bottle' exactly what many elixirs and other Wondrous Items ARE?,
e.g. Elixir of Love, Philter of Love, Elixir of Fire Breath, Dust of Illusion, War Paint of Terrible Visage, Flying Ointment, Necklace of Fireballs...?Believe me, I'd love it if Brew Potion was used for ALL consumable items, but Wondrous seems to encroach pretty broadly into that territory.
Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I guess I'll just stick with the Craft Wondrous, Craft Arms & Armor and Craft Construct feats and leave out the rest. If I can't figure out anything better to do, I may pick up wands later.
It will be interesting though, none of the party has UMD, though I'm not sure where that comes into play. I would think that if you made the item, you should already know how to use it. Items like Armors and Weapons I would think wouldn't really need UMD unless it has a command word, but if that's the case, I could just tell the party member I'm giving it to, what the word was.
Would picking up Leadership and having my cohort being a cleric then having them pick up brew potion be a good idea? I was already going to pick up Leadership, but originally I was thinking a body guard type or perhaps a bard with plenty of craft and skills. I was just thinking that since Clerics and other divine casters tend to have access to cure light wounds and other healing spells as such (we don't have a party healer) that would probably make potions for healing easier to make for the party, but a personal bodyguard or item creation helper sounds good too.
Thanks again.
Before investing in any item creation feats, I strongly advice you to talk to your GM about how wealth and magic item availability will work in your campaign.
A Ring of Infernal Healing or even Greater Infernal Healing where the spell effect is continuous could be handy.
One reason why I love Cohorts. I can play the Fighter I want and have a Wizard who equips the party for combat.
That would be a fast healing/1 effect, which I believe is priced at 90k or 45k, I forget which.
==Aelryinth
I am thinking using the Spell Effect line of the Item Creation Table. It is surprisingly cheap if I remember the Pricing correctly.
Master Craftsman actually allows both Magic Arms/Armour and Wondrous Item.
@Third_Mind: Witch or Alchemist actually have some of the better ways to make potions if I remember correctly.
Craft Rod : you do not need to know the metamagic feat to create a metamagic rod, the crafting DC is just increased by +5.
It lets you make "feat advantage". A solid choice after Craft Wondrous Item, IMHO.
@Blueluck - This is very true. I shall do so for certain when he returns from his trip. I talked with him about making constructs though, and he seemed quite fine with me doing it. Not sure about all the other possible things though.
@Azaleas - Also very true. A witch would definitely help the party, but I could actually go both bodyguard and useful potion maker with alchemist using a mr. hyde type build. Thanks for reminding me of those options.
@Azaleas - Also very true. A witch would definitely help the party, but I could actually go both bodyguard and useful potion maker with alchemist using a mr. hyde type build. Thanks for reminding me of those options.
A Samsaren Magus using Mystic Past Life can be a Good Bodyguard as they can pull Cure Spells from the Bard/Witch/Alchemist(?).
Which begs the question... What type of Caster is the Alchemist Class!?
@Azaleas - Also very true. A witch would definitely help the party, but I could actually go both bodyguard and useful potion maker with alchemist using a mr. hyde type build. Thanks for reminding me of those options.A Samsaren Magus using Mystic Past Life can be a Good Bodyguard as they can pull Cure Spells from the Bard/Witch/Alchemist(?).
Which begs the question... What type of Caster is the Alchemist Class!?
It's not.
Despite the weird blur between casting and extracts, the alchemist is not a casting class. It just fakes it really well.
And yet it can use Pearls of Power and maybe even Rings of Wizardry?
A Ring of Infernal Healing or even Greater Infernal Healing where the spell effect is continuous could be handy.
One reason why I love Cohorts. I can play the Fighter I want and have a Wizard who equips the party for combat.
That would be a fast healing/1 effect, which I believe is priced at 90k or 45k, I forget which.
==Aelryinth
I am thinking using the Spell Effect line of the Item Creation Table. It is surprisingly cheap if I remember the Pricing correctly.
Master Craftsman actually allows both Magic Arms/Armour and Wondrous Item.
@Third_Mind: Witch or Alchemist actually have some of the better ways to make potions if I remember correctly.
You're conveniently ignoring the #1 pricing guideline...look for a similar item.
#2 is follow the formula, and get GM approval.
You don't pick up fast healing for cheap. Please don't stat up a CLW-self 1/rd item and proclaim you've found the healing nadir. It would be a fast healing/5 item and worth hundreds of thousands of gold.
The elixirs that are not spells in a bottle are wondrous items. A necklace is not something you drink or cast on yourself. An effect that specifically happens to someone else will not be found in a potion...see Feather Tokens, etc.
Wondrous Items has consumables, just not spells in a bottle for the user.
==Aelryinth
And yet it can use Pearls of Power and maybe even Rings of Wizardry?
you mean boro beads. also, i had no idea aobut rings of wizardry working for them.
You're conveniently ignoring the #1 pricing guideline...look for a similar item.
#2 is follow the formula, and get GM approval.
You don't pick up fast healing for cheap. Please don't stat up a CLW-self 1/rd item and proclaim you've found the healing nadir. It would be a fast healing/5 item and worth hundreds of thousands of gold.==Aelryinth
I can't find anything that gives just Fast Healing or at least Fast Healing not as a Secondary Ability.
From what I figure:
Infernal Healing: 2000GP
Greater Infernal Healing: 56000GP
Not to overpowered giving how easy it is to negate. especially around level 3+ where you would be able to afford the ring.
And yet it can use Pearls of Power and maybe even Rings of Wizardry?you mean boro beads. also, i had no idea aobut rings of wizardry working for them.
Boro Beads? And appearently they are a Psuedo-Caster...
The elixirs that are not spells in a bottle are wondrous items. A necklace is not something you drink or cast on yourself. An effect that specifically happens to someone else will not be found in a potion...see Feather Tokens, etc.
yes, there are potion-specific rules, but that doesn't affect the fact that 'spells in a bottle[item]' are commonly available via wondrous item. potions have specific rules, but that is largely based on the fact that you are simply allowed to make a potion of ANY eligible spell. the rest of the wondrous items are dependent on specific allowance by paizo, or gm if home-brewing an item. but there definitely is overlap between specific wondrous items and elixirs, and potions of the same spells.
i really would prefer if brew potions (perhaps re-named) covered potions, elixirs, dusts, and all other one-usage consumable wondrous items, regardless of physical consistency. that wouldn't change the rules for what spells can be made into a potion, all the items would stay the same (albeit some have independent balance issues, e.g. dust of disappearance). they would just use the same feat. a different one from the one for permanent wondrous items.
My general take is if the Spell is 3rd level or lower it is a potion.
If it is 4th or higher it is an Elixir and is a Wondrous Item.
That said I will be redoing the Item Crafting feats for most of my settings.
Elixir of Love: Charm Person @1st, Elixir of Fire Breath: Scorching Ray @2nd, Dust of Illusion: Disguise Self@1st (the dust lasts 2x as long, and is really like 2 potions with durations chain-extended, at twice the cost), War Paint of Terrible Visage: Cause Fear @1st (not Potion comptable due to target)
By Level 3+ that low of a FH is horribly insufficient to keep one alive as a Melee Fighter.
A Ranged/Caster could potentially gain an advantage but when you look at it a Wand of Infernal Healing is even cheaper and useful.
It's not about keeping you alive.
It's about having free healing, forever.
Getting healed in combat is an emergency. It's getting healed out of combat that uses resources the most.
Someone with fast healing/1 never needs to get healed out of combat, it's that simple.
How long have you been around? The pseudo '1 pt/rd of healing for 2k gp' has been around for over TEN YEARS at this point by people looking to abuse the magic item crafting system.
And you can't find items with fast healing? Are you SRD impaired?
An Ioun stone that regenerates 1 hp/10 minutes is 20k gp. That's slotless, so a similar effect slotted is 10K gp.
A Ring of Regeneration for fast healing/1 is 90k gp. Even if you say the ability to restore limbs and immunity to bleed is half the effect (it isn't), that's still 45k gp.
If you go back to 3.5, getting fast healing 2 via a graft is 180k.
Fast healing is hugely valuable. But just like healing in a fight is not the best use of a spell, FH in combat isn't meant to be a savior. It's meant to reduce your dependency on healing magic to nothing after the fighting is over.
A fighter with fast healing can just go and go and go after the rest of the party has run out of spells and rage rounds and whatnot, and so can other melees. It is VERY strong.
If it wasn't, I suspect you wouldn't be arguing so strongly that it should be so cheap!
==Aelryinth
yeah, the raw is clear: precedence has priority over the spell level guidelines. there's nothing to discuss there, FH items already have precedence. just like continuous true strike items are priced as per attack bonus items, not the spell guidelines. yawn.
Limit it to where it has to be worn for a week or 24 hours to have effect.
seriously, how many monsters that have fast healing/regen are ridiculously easy to kill WITHOUT applying the special regen-suppressing damage type until they are already 'dead'? e.g. hydras. these amounts (unless really really high) are just not enough to keep you in combat vs. a viable foe.
seriously, how many monsters that have fast healing/regen are ridiculously easy to kill WITHOUT applying the special regen-suppressing damage type until they are already 'dead'? e.g. hydras. these amounts (unless really really high) are just not enough to keep you in combat vs. a viable foe.
I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. But I have never had any problem dealing with Regen/FH.
Here how about this:
Ring of Infernal Healing:
Price: 2500GP
-Must be worn for 24 hours before taking effect.
-Provides Fast Healing/1.
Requirements: Forge Ring, Infernal Healing
Cost: 1250GP
Early on, and even long term, Scribe Scroll is extremely useful. At low levels, it effectively increases the number of spells any prepared caster can cast (and 12.5 gp x spell level x caster level is relatively inexpensive). As you progress, you should scribe a few copies of spells that are extremely useful in certain circumstances (i.e., water breathing), but not necessarily ones you expect to use that often; this really expands your versatility. As a wizard, it's also a smart tactic to scribe key spells from your opposition schools, so that you can cast them without using two spell slots to prepare them.
Brew Potion isn't really worth it, IMO (except for alchemists, who get it for free, or if it's tied to a character concept). Potions are expensive and the limitations on spells (level and target) make them of limited use as the campaign progresses. You're probably better off just purchasing them instead of making them.
As others have stated, Craft Wondrous Item is by far the most useful item creation feat over the course of a campaign. Just being able to make everybody amulets of natural armor, belts of giant strength/incredible dexterity, cloaks of resistance, and headbands of alluring Charisma/inspired Wisdom/vast Intelligence makes the entire party more effective. Wondrous items are also the most diverse category of magic items, both in form and effect.
Craft Wand is very useful to spellcasters from about 5th to 10th-12th level. Wands are the most cost-effective consumable magic item (7.5 gp x spell level x caster level per charge to make) and are ideal for low-level spells that you want to use repeatedly (cure light wounds, buffs like enlarge person or haste, many attacks like acid arrow or scorching ray, etc.). Because the effects of wands are limited (unless you can qualify for the Staff-Like Wand arcane discovery as a wizard), you should avoid most spells that require saves or are strongly dependent on caster level.
Craft Magic Arms and Armor can be useful for the entire party, allowing the crafter to make/improve armor, shields, and weapons to exactly the form/abilities the using PC wants (once the base masterwork item can be obtained, at least). It also allows the efficient conversion of all of the looted armor and weapons that the PCs don't want into new items/improvements they do want.
Craft Rod, Craft Staff, and Forge Ring are more specialized; the CL prerequisites for the feats and high cost of most rings, rods, and staffs also limit their usefulness. Craft Rod is probably the most useful for a spellcaster, although Craft Staff may be better for a wizard to qualify for the Staff-Like Wand arcane discovery. At very high levels (15th+) they are probably worth it; before then, not so much (IMO).
seriously, how many monsters that have fast healing/regen are ridiculously easy to kill WITHOUT applying the special regen-suppressing damage type until they are already 'dead'? e.g. hydras. these amounts (unless really really high) are just not enough to keep you in combat vs. a viable foe.I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. But I have never had any problem dealing with Regen/FH.
Here how about this:
Ring of Infernal Healing:
Price: 2500GP
-Must be worn for 24 hours before taking effect.
-Provides Fast Healing/1.Requirements: Forge Ring, Infernal Healing
Cost: 1250GP
Dude. Just, no.
That's a minimum 80k item there...it's just a Ring of Regeneration without all the fluff. And suddenly it's worth 3% of the other ring?
==Aelryinth
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seriously, how many monsters that have fast healing/regen are ridiculously easy to kill WITHOUT applying the special regen-suppressing damage type until they are already 'dead'? e.g. hydras. these amounts (unless really really high) are just not enough to keep you in combat vs. a viable foe.I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. But I have never had any problem dealing with Regen/FH.
Here how about this:
Ring of Infernal Healing:
Price: 2500GP
-Must be worn for 24 hours before taking effect.
-Provides Fast Healing/1.Requirements: Forge Ring, Infernal Healing
Cost: 1250GP
You are ignoring the FIRST STEP OF COSTING OUT A CUSTOM MAGIC ITEM and as such, this is EXTREMELY against the ruleset. Just like the use activated true strike item for 2 grand that people seem to like to use. Course it doesn't help that paizo themselves have violated the first rule in the ultimate equipment in some cases (that falcon bracer I'm looking at you).
seriously, how many monsters that have fast healing/regen are ridiculously easy to kill WITHOUT applying the special regen-suppressing damage type until they are already 'dead'? e.g. hydras. these amounts (unless really really high) are just not enough to keep you in combat vs. a viable foe.I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. But I have never had any problem dealing with Regen/FH.
Here how about this:
Ring of Infernal Healing:
Price: 2500GP
-Must be worn for 24 hours before taking effect.
-Provides Fast Healing/1.Requirements: Forge Ring, Infernal Healing
Cost: 1250GP
You're allowing almost the exact same benefit of a ring of regeneration (market price 90,000 gp), except for the regrowing body parts, for less than 1/30 of the price, and you don't have a problem with it? Just to save the "bother" of using a wand of cure light wounds (market price 750 gp) in between fights?
Right, let's make it possible to eliminate one entire aspect of resource management (healing between fights) from the game at around 5th level (instead of around 17th level)...
How about this for comparison a Ring of Regeneration is less than half what it should be.
182,000 vs 90,000
Even taking into effect it only grants Fast Healing/1 instead of the full healing. It still grants the character the ability to recover from any non-lethal damage including getting their arm taken off and immunity to Bleed. Which is the majority of its function.
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If you DM allows for custom items that stack existing properties on the same item at 50% cost, forge ring is EXTREMELY useful because as pointed out, you only get two...but most character would LOVE more.
I find staves really useful as well as long as you can pick what spells you place in them. A staff of vampiric touch makes your squishy mage not so squishy anymore. A staff of mirror image makes most none casters just pull their hair out and neither of these costs very much with the feat.
How about this for comparison a Ring of Regeneration is less than half what it should be.
182,000 vs 90,000
Even taking into effect it only grants Fast Healing/1 instead of the full healing. It still grants the character the ability to recover from any non-lethal damage including getting their arm taken off and immunity to Bleed. Which is the majority of its function.
You really think that the non-lethal damage, restoration of body parts, and ignoring bleed damage are "the majority of its function?" How often do those effects come up, compared to normal damage?
Please read/re-read the section Magic Item Gold Piece Values (Core Rulebook, pg. 549-550). Specifically, the first and last paragraphs.
How about this for comparison a Ring of Regeneration is less than half what it should be.
182,000 vs 90,000
Even taking into effect it only grants Fast Healing/1 instead of the full healing. It still grants the character the ability to recover from any non-lethal damage including getting their arm taken off and immunity to Bleed. Which is the majority of its function.
Um, no.
Exactly how often does Bleed come up?
Right.
And how easy is it to get rid of bleed?
ANY HEALING SPELL OR A DC15 Heal check, even curing 1 pt of damage! Which you do automatically.
If you have ANY FAST HEALING, you are IMMUNE TO BLEED. It's a part of having fast healing.
You know, any non-lethal damage including arm taken off SOUNDS nice.
Now, tell me how many effects in the game MAKE YOU LOSE YOUR ARM.
(waits)
And that's why the fluff is not worth anything, really. WHen swords of sharpness were around, it might mean something...but not much.
==Aelryinth
If you DM allows for custom items that stack existing properties on the same item at 50% cost, forge ring is EXTREMELY useful because as pointed out, you only get two...but most character would LOVE more.
I think you mean +50% cost... But yeah, ESPECIALLY when using the Paizo guidance that SELF-crafted items only use their COST when counting towards WBL (as opposed to full price for everybody else), then custom-blend Rings can be very nice.
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If you DM allows for custom items that stack existing properties on the same item at 50% cost, forge ring is EXTREMELY useful because as pointed out, you only get two...but most character would LOVE more.I think you mean +50% cost... But yeah, ESPECIALLY when using the Paizo guidance that SELF-crafted items only use their COST when counting towards WBL (as opposed to full price for everybody else), then custom-blend Rings can be very nice.
Quite right...dang netbook and small keyboards...missed the + on that 50% :P .
netbooks are chaotic evil... :-)
And Macs are Lawful Evil.