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She can make an attack of opportunity against creatures trying to grapple her even if they possess the Improved Grapple feat or the grab special attack. If she hits with this attack of opportunity, she gains a +2 circumstance bonus to her CMD against the grapple attempt.
Is this ability 'resurrecting' the exact same AoO that one normally provokes when using 'non-Improved' Maneuvers?
(and that Improved Grapple and Grab normally take away)If so, the Damage applying to penalize the maneuver attack would seem to apply (on top of the +2 circumstance bonus to CMD) ...???
Another point to consider: If the attacker DOESN'T have either Imp. Grapple or Grab, the 'can make AoO... even if' wording isn't changing something in that case, but would the +2 circumstance bonus apply on top of the normal AoO (that applies damage as penalty to attack) for the non-Improved Maneuver? If it does, that reinforces my view that the AoO granted (for attackers WITH Imp Grapple or Grab) IS the same 'special' AoO with the special 'damage penalizes maneuver attack' feature... In other words, it's not really 'granting' an AoO out of the blue, rather it's saying that you can continue to use existing rules and NOT be affected by other things (Imp. Grapple, Grab) which would prevent that normal rule from functioning.
I contrast this with cases like Come and Get Me, where you gain an AoO provoked by any attack against you, including maneuvers, but this is just a generic AoO not related to the 'non-Improved Maneuver' rules, so there is no damage to CMD effect, if I read it correctly...? Or are ALL AoO's 'somehow' provoked by a maneuver attack itself (not including movement AoO's preceding said attack, etc) meant to apply damage to penalize maneuver attacks?
Non-RAW Extra Credit: Should Readied attacks be able to apply damage to penalize maneuvers as well? If all AoOs do apply damage as attack penalty, it seems like Readied attacks should as well, but I'm doubtful on the 'all AoOs' thing, so...???
EDIT: I forgot to include the relevant rule from the basic function of Combat Maneuvers:
Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver.
This is modified by having the Improved Maneuver Feats or Grab/Trip/etc special ability.
Maneuver Master Monks' Maneuver Defense is another ability that makes it so maneuvers against you provoke an AoO. I'm not sure how it fits into this issue, the 'even if it would not normally do so' part seems more similar to Brutal Pugilist, so perhaps the Damage to CMD/CMB penalty should also apply here?
Maneuver Defense (Ex): At 3rd level, if a maneuver master has an Improved combat maneuver feat, any creature attempting that maneuver against the maneuver master provokes an attack of opportunity, even if it would not normally do so. This ability replaces still mind.
BUMP.
I would think yes it does. To my way of thinking:
Grapple attempt provokes AoO. This adds a penalty to the grapple attempt.
Improved Grapple/Grab removes the AoO.
Ability grants an AoO against even Improved Grapple/Grab. This is an AoO vs the grapple attempt and thus adds a penalty to the grapple attempt.
- Gauss
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Just to add to this (exactly what I was wondering)
Situation A) Opponent attempts grapple with no special feat (causes an AoO from attempt).
So one of these takes effect:
1) You get the standard AoO and add the damage to CMD.
2) You get the standard AoO and add the damage AND the +2 from the ability, to CMD.
From reading the ability: "If she hits with this attack of opportunity, she gains a +2 circumstance bonus to her CMD against the grapple attempt."
So I would guess 2 is correct (but ready for FAQ)
Situation B) Opponent attempts grapple with improved grapple (normally causes no AoO from attempt).
So one of these takes effect:
3) You get the standard AoO (via ability) and add +2 to CMD.
4) You get the standard AoO (via ability) and add the damage and +2 to CMD.
5) You get a (special ability) AoO and add +2 to CMD.
6) You get a (special ability) AoO and add the damage AND the +2 to CMD.
From reading the ability: "She can make an attack of opportunity against creatures trying to grapple her even if they possess the Improved Grapple feat or the grab special attack."
This one seems less clear. I have a feeling it is 6, whilst this seems very powerful, it only comes in when something tries to grapple you - compared to uncanny dodge helping with surprise rounds and invisible creatures or effective blindness (eg darkness). So it is actually replacing a powerful ability.