I've done some searching, and I've come to a conclusion that might be incorrect: There appears to be no guides dealing with the Hateful Rager archtype.
I ask because I've noticed that after the initial hubbub about the class when it was first seen, nobody really talked about it since.
I was wondering how effective of a class it actually is. I would think it's pretty powerful, due to the favored enemy rules, though access to less rage powers overall is a bit of a b****h. Still, I think it's worth the sacrifice.
I noticed that with the rage powers, this character can become a terrifying terrorist when using intimidating glare, thanks to the favored enemy bonus. However, I was really wondering overall if the favored enemy makes that much of a difference with the class or it's just another thing that in the end doesn't do much.
Does anyone have any experience with this one? Is the archtype any good or fun? I would assume so, but I haven't actually used it yet. Overall, how does it compare to other barbarian types in terms of damage output and other bonuses?
Major_Blackhart wrote: I've done some searching, and I've come to a conclusion that might be incorrect: There appears to be no guides dealing with the Hateful Rager archtype.
I ask because I've noticed that after the initial hubbub about the class when it was first seen, nobody really talked about it since.
I was wondering how effective of a class it actually is. I would think it's pretty powerful, due to the favored enemy rules, though access to less rage powers overall is a bit of a b****h. Still, I think it's worth the sacrifice.
I noticed that with the rage powers, this character can become a terrifying terrorist when using intimidating glare, thanks to the favored enemy bonus. However, I was really wondering overall if the favored enemy makes that much of a difference with the class or it's just another thing that in the end doesn't do much.
Does anyone have any experience with this one? Is the archtype any good or fun? I would assume so, but I haven't actually used it yet. Overall, how does it compare to other barbarian types in terms of damage output and other bonuses?
Once you combo it with Destroyer's Blessing (which you should), you end up with the following trade, basically: 4 rage powers for 4 favored enemies.
Not a bad trade at all. It's still a very good/fun archetype.
-Cross
While it is indeed not bad its not great ether. The thing about favored enemy is while very good it is situational. While most ragw powers are always useful.
Sadly favored enemy is also subject to childish DM problems. Did you kill that BBED faster then the DM wanted? Ohh look now strangely you never see anymore of your favored enemies. I would very much like to think this sort of thing doesn't happen but sadly it does.
Vindictive GMs can spoil any character ability.
Effective enchanters discover lots of creatures immune to mind affecting abilities, first sorcerers discover everything has ER/ Fire.
The only way to cure a jerk GM is to move on.
Alright, but what about feat selection, trait selection, all that?
Obviously, the rager will be hitting more often than not against favored enemies, so those ought to be readily available enemies like humans, goblins, and not so readily available like giants and dragons (makes sense if he's from Belkzen, dragons (wyverns) populate Wyvernsting, which borders the realm of the Mammoth Lords where there are a crapload of giants and humans).
Would sacrificing feats to get extra rage powers be worth it?
What feats would people recommend? I would think anything overrun related due to his tendency to run people over to get to someone he wants to kill. What else?
Anyone?
And I'm not worried about jerk GM's.
Major_Blackhart wrote: Alright, but what about feat selection, trait selection, all that?
Obviously, the rager will be hitting more often than not against favored enemies, so those ought to be readily available enemies like humans, goblins, and not so readily available like giants and dragons (makes sense if he's from Belkzen, dragons (wyverns) populate Wyvernsting, which borders the realm of the Mammoth Lords where there are a crapload of giants and humans).
Would sacrificing feats to get extra rage powers be worth it?
What feats would people recommend? I would think anything overrun related due to his tendency to run people over to get to someone he wants to kill. What else?
Anyone?
And I'm not worried about jerk GM's.
I gotcha. =) Here's a suggested build.
Hateful Rager 1: Power Attack
Hateful Rager 2: Favored Enemy: Undead
Hateful Rager 3: Destroyer's Blessing
Hateful Rager 4: Rage Power: Beast Totem
Hateful Rager 5: Improved Sunder
Hateful Rager 6: Rage Power: Beast Totem
Hateful Rager 7: Greater Sunder
Hateful Rager 8: Favored Enemy: Evil Outsiders
Hateful Rager 9: Combat Reflexes
Hateful Rager 10: Rage Power: Greater Beast totem
Hateful Rager 11: Dazing Assault
Hateful Rager 12: Come and Get Me
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This is a pretty standard Come and Get Me Build, with the exception that you will be sundering everything to get extra rage rounds from Destroyer's Blessing. You can skimp on Raging Vitality (normally a barbarian feat tax) because Orc Ferocity will keep you alive long enough to drink a potion and drop out of rage.
Undead is pretty much the best low-level favored enemy, and Evil Outsiders are the best mid and high level one.
For traits, pick up Optimistic Gambler and something else.
-Cross
What's the advantage of the Beast Totem over other totems like Fiend and Chaos Totem? Is it primarily the pounce attack or the armor class bonus?
Also, no reckless abandon?
Major_Blackhart wrote: What's the advantage of the Beast Totem over other totems like Fiend and Chaos Totem? Is it primarily the pounce attack or the armor class bonus?
Also, no reckless abandon?
So, the thing about Hateful Rager is that you're short 2 rage powers and a feat (Destroyer's Blessing). And you're a half orc, so you're also sort of short another feat that you could have gotten from being human.
This limits your rage power options significantly.
You could pretty easily trade out Greater Sunder at 7 for Reckless abandon, or get it before Beast Totem.
The reason for Beast Totem is that Pounce is incredibly, incredibly good. And, for levels 4 and 5, attacking with claws (and a bite attack if you take that half-orc trait, which I recommend you do) is better than attacking with a weapon. But MOSTLY that Pounce is good, Beast Totem is also good, and Lesser Beast totem isn't bad.
Trinam's barbarian guide breaks it down a bit farther.
I'm not much of a believer in the "Barbarian's have to have 0 AC!" school. You need to spend your money somewhere, and there's no reason you can't make iterative monster attacks have a reasonable chance of missing. So Reckless Abandon isn't quite as amazing for me as it is for somebody who gets auto-hit by every monster attack anyways.
-Cross
Hmmm, interesting.
I've never actually attacked with unarmed attacks before, always using a melee weapon.
I was wondering on the comparison then between a falchion versus the unarmed attacks for sundering. I would think the Falchion, with its' critical chance being so much greater, would win hands down. I've never used unarmed tho, so no clue really.
Beast Totem for the pounce attack may be pretty good though. I was also wondering about going the overrun route with regards to feats.
Would Feats like charge through, Greater Overrun and the like stack well with the Overrun Rage Powers?
Damn, this is a tough class to plan for.
If I may, what's the benefit of going the sunder route over the other combat maneuvers?
Major_Blackhart wrote: Hmmm, interesting.
I've never actually attacked with unarmed attacks before, always using a melee weapon.
I was wondering on the comparison then between a falchion versus the unarmed attacks for sundering. I would think the Falchion, with its' critical chance being so much greater, would win hands down. I've never used unarmed tho, so no clue really.
Beast Totem for the pounce attack may be pretty good though. I was also wondering about going the overrun route with regards to feats.
Would Feats like charge through, Greater Overrun and the like stack well with the Overrun Rage Powers?
Damn, this is a tough class to plan for.
If I may, what's the benefit of going the sunder route over the other combat maneuvers?
The benefit of going the sunder route is simple:
You're short Rage Rounds of your archetype.
With Destroyer's Blessing, every time you sunder, you gain a rage round.
With Greater Sunder, sundering stuff doesn't even prevent you from doing damage.
So any time you're running low on rage rounds, just sunder everything an enemy's got.
That's basically the extent of my logic. =)
-Cross
Hmm, not bad.
Certainly better than abilities like Gore Fiend, where criticals can be few and far in between, even with a keen falchion.
That, combined with Destructive Blows certainly can make for an interesting breaker.
It now aggravates me to no end that we have only two melee weapons with the Sunder weapon quality. And no magic abilities that can improve a weapon's chance to sunder.
Figures.
Weapon Qualities are completely useless you add Weapon Focus and your Weapons enhancement Modifier to maneuvers anyway so its meaningless.
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