Hey guys!
My character is a Bard 4/Oracle 1 .... with the blindness Curse... My vision improves through character progression, but I have recently learned that a multiclass oracle does NOT improve against curses as rapidly as a normal oracle (progression is 1:1 for oracle levels but 2:1 for non oracle levels... at "5th level" my darkvision extends from 30' to 60' -- I can never see anything beyond my dark vision... and this is a considerable hinderance, though I am managing so far.
So my question is -- are there any items, feats, obscure rules that help mitigate an oracle curse or help to advance progression with it? I know that the curse cannot be lifted or dispelled without an act of a diety -- but I am not looking for a cheat out of getting around my curse, just wondering if there are things I can pay in gold or feat/trait/whatever that will help me get to the next tier in my clouded vision so I can get that 60' dark vision before I would otherwise... which at my current rate would be 9th level. (oracle1/bard8!)
Any help appreciated!!!
-V
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Only thing I'm aware of is the Changeling racial favoured class option for Oracle.
Otherwise, maybe invest in a wand of darkness so nobody else will see very well either?
Thanks for posting Artanthos -- but I posted already in my OP that I was aware that nothing can dispel or remove the curse -- and quoting me (and the rules I reference) directly back to me serves nobody. The question is not about that... it's about "Is there any item, power, or means to gain levels against the curse" -- I am NOT trying to remove or dispel it... I am trying to mitigate it.
Here's something I found:
Gnome
Treat the gnome’s level as +1/2 higher for the purpose of determining the effects of the oracle’s curse ability.
Source: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle
So what exactly does this mean? Does this mean my bard levels actually DO count for 1:1 as opposed to .5 per level for effecting the curse?! This might be just what I was looking for, but want to be sure it's on the level.
Here's something I found:
Gnome
Treat the gnome’s level as +1/2 higher for the purpose of determining the effects of the oracle’s curse ability.Source: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle
So what exactly does this mean? Does this mean my bard levels actually DO count for 1:1 as opposed to .5 per level for effecting the curse?! This might be just what I was looking for, but want to be sure it's on the level.
It means that if you're a Gnome Oracle, and you chose Oracle as your favored class, AND chose that favored class option instead of taking the 1hp/1 skill point per level (normal favored class option), then every two levels you took of Oracle would count you as one level higher for the curse ability.
For example, if you were an Oracle 4/Bard 1 instead of the other way around, and chose that optional favored class feature, you would be considered a level 6 Oracle for the purposes of determining what level you are for the curse and what affects it ha(but still level 4 for everything else Oracle-related).
Once you took the second level of Bard, it would count you as a level 7 Oracle for the curse. (4 levels of Oracle, 1 from 2 levels of Bard, and 2 more from the favored class ability)
Tongues curse. Have everyone sink a token point into Linguistics to learn the language you're trapped in during combat.
Curse "negated".
curious where are you finding that non oracle levels affect curse in anyway? I didnt realize character levels not in oracle had any effect on the curse.
curious where are you finding that non oracle levels affect curse in anyway? I didnt realize character levels not in oracle had any effect on the curse.
Says so right in the text of an Oracle's Curse extraordinary ability.
An oracle's curse is based on her oracle level plus one for every two levels or Hit Dice other than oracle.
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Oracle's Curse (Ex): Each oracle is cursed, but this curse comes with a benefit as well as a hindrance. This choice is made at 1st level, and once made, it cannot be changed. The oracle's curse cannot be removed or dispelled without the aid of a deity. An oracle's curse is based on her oracle level plus one for every two levels or Hit Dice other than oracle. Each oracle must choose one of the following curses.
Ninjas everywhere ^
Anyway, a few of the curses can be negated pretty effectively or even help quite a lot if you plan for them (Barbarian + Oracle with Lame Curse, anyone?).
Unfortunately, Clouded Vision is a fairly tough one. Not sure what to tell you for that.
hmmmmm interesting......
Your current effective Oracle level for curses is 3. If you either take 2 more levels of Oracle or 4 levels of anything else, you will qualify for Deepsight from the APG, extending your Darkvision to 120 ft.
Considering Clouded explicitly limits your vision, I imagine it's a pretty hard one to circumvent. I would say limiting everyone else to your circumstances is the best option. Like Scythia said "Wand of Darkness" or grab anything that can negate/avoid those pesky ranged attacks from targets you cannot see. (Is it just me or does sneak attack really destroy Cloudy Vision oracles? (assuming you have one of the class features or magic items that extends SA's range)
Side note: I feel like I've read several posts on the forums saying the cloudy vision curse isn't that bad, but I really can't agree with that opinion. Anyone else's thoughts?
Edit: @Serisan: That's a good one, I forget Deepsight exists sometimes.
Side note: I feel like I've read several posts on the forums saying the cloudy vision curse isn't that bad, but I really can't agree with that opinion. Anyone else's thoughts?
I'm personally rather nervous of Clouded Vision because of a guide on Oracles that pointed out you really won't be able to target any spells beyond your sight limit, which may be quite unfortunate. Though I do like Darkvision, I'm just a little too worried about that.
Your current effective Oracle level for curses is 3. If you either take 2 more levels of Oracle or 4 levels of anything else, you will qualify for Deepsight from the APG, extending your Darkvision to 120 ft.
Though, if this does indeed work, I might reconsider. 120 feet will probably suffice in most cases. And I like darkvision.
Serisan, cheap trick!
We have a blind oracle in our group (our first one) She is 4th level. So can only see 30 feet.
However, in most cases this hasn't severely limited her as so much of the encounters have walls or other obstacles limiting the distance of things to not so much further away than that.
With a vision of 60 to 120 feet, I can't think of many if any situations in actual game play that cause much of a problem here.
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How bad the clouded vision curse is depends on how many ranged abilities you have. If you never need to target anyone beyond the range of your vision, it is not that bad a curse.
The other curses usually follow similar patterns -- if you do not often do certain actions, your curse has less severe effects on you. For example, the Haunted curse is less of a problem if you can avoid switching items around while in combat.
The Lame curse is probably the one you want to take if you are going for the Rage Prophet prestige class, as the Fast Movement ability of the Barbarian class cancels out the speed loss from your curse.
The Lame curse is probably the one you want to take if you are going for the Rage Prophet prestige class, as the Fast Movement ability of the Barbarian class cancels out the speed loss from your curse.
Not to mention immunity to fatigue at level 5 (higher for multiclassing obviously, but still). Oh hey, super early rage cycling.
Edit: Honestly, I think it's actually a reasonable 1 level dip in an otherwise straightclassed Barbarian. Then again, I feel the Rage Prophet loses a lot of the effectiveness of both classes, so YMMV.
Edit 2: Edit to the edit.
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Tongues curse. Have everyone sink a token point into Linguistics to learn the language you're trapped in during combat.
Curse "negated".
In the same vein:
Deaf curse. Have everyone sink a token point into Linguistics to learn Drow Sign Language. Also have your character spend an additional point for "Read Lips".
Your current effective Oracle level for curses is 3. If you either take 2 more levels of Oracle or 4 levels of anything else, you will qualify for Deepsight from the APG, extending your Darkvision to 120 ft.
I don't think this actually works, as an Oracle has Clouded Vision and not actual Darkvision. The ability says you can see "as though you had Darkvision". It doesn't say "Gives you Darkvision to 60ft".
Although you could certainly ask your DM his/her interpretation on this.
Your current effective Oracle level for curses is 3. If you either take 2 more levels of Oracle or 4 levels of anything else, you will qualify for Deepsight from the APG, extending your Darkvision to 120 ft.I don't think this actually works, as an Oracle has Clouded Vision and not actual Darkvision. The ability says you can see "as though you had Darkvision". It doesn't say "Gives you Darkvision to 60ft".
Although you could certainly ask your DM his/her interpretation on this.
I would rule you are welcome to take the feat, but it has no affect because clouded vision does not allow your vision to extend beyond 60ft. Even if you miracled away the curse, you would no longer have the darkvision and would loose the pre-req for the feat and it would get tossed... And yes, I would rule that a miracle removes the whole curse, bonuses and all, not just the negatives of the curse. Actual divine intervention may vary.
EDIT: My preferred curse is haunted, the bonus spells are handy and a handy haversack / efficiency quiver can easy things for you. And your oh-sh!t-I-need-you-often item, throw it in a glove of storing.
Your current effective Oracle level for curses is 3. If you either take 2 more levels of Oracle or 4 levels of anything else, you will qualify for Deepsight from the APG, extending your Darkvision to 120 ft.
This is JUST the kind of elegant and unforseen type of answer I started this thread -- but I really think the nature of cloudy vision would, once I got dark vision 60, prevent me from seeing further than 60' darkvision or not... because there is nothing in Deepsight itself that would allow me to effect the curse. If Deepsight worked (extends darkvision) wouldn't something like "wonderous whippersnap" work (extends darkvision by 1d3x5 feet? I didn't think whippersnap would work (because anything, darkvision or not, would be "Clouded" from my "Clouded vision", darkvision or not.... am I incorrect?
EDIT: Ninja'ed... Twice. Looks like I am correct and deepsight won't help... but I *LOVE* hearing potential solutions like this so full props anyway.
Lame Curse Reduces your base speed by 10. Some Mysteries, like Flame and Metal, have revelations that increase your base speed by 10. Curse Negated.
and they specifically state "cannot be taken if you have the lame curse"
This is JUST the kind of elegant and unforseen type of answer I started this thread -- but I really think the nature of cloudy vision would, once I got dark vision 60, prevent me from seeing further than 60' darkvision or not... because there is nothing in Deepsight itself that would allow me to effect the curse. If Deepsight worked (extends darkvision) wouldn't something like "wonderous whippersnap" work (extends darkvision by 1d3x5 feet? I didn't think whippersnap would work (because anything, darkvision or not, would be "Clouded" from my "Clouded vision", darkvision or not.... am I incorrect?
Nope, you're right. It's a brilliant bit of theorycrafting that simply doesn't work according to RAW. But those are exactly the outside-the-box innovations you were asking for.
However, as a DM, I would say any attempt to use clever tactics/items or rules to counter the negatives of an Oracle's curse would meet with divine intervention altering the curse again to compensate.
It's a curse for a reason. You have to give something to get something.
So effects on Darkvision aren't the solution likely... but anything racial possibly for Gnomes?
Barring that, no items or other ideas?
The miracle spells is a cool solution I hadn't thought of -- and it comes with the caveat that I'd lose the dark vision... so it's not without trade... how much would it cost to get a miracle spell cast? and what level cleric would have to cast it? (there is a cleric in the party, so the cash cost is good to know for a sooner solution, but the cleric level for the spell is valuable to me to see how long I'd have to wait for our cleric to get the spell himself.)
This is already stuff to work with, and relatively quickly volunteered by the forum... I can't help but wonder if there are stranger or more elegant solutions.
..."Tut-Tut" @Arthanos for dismissing my question out of hand -- that's NOT what these forums are for, I wish you could see clear to be more helpful if you are going to post in a thread where people are seeking help.
Tongues curse. Have everyone sink a token point into Linguistics to learn the language you're trapped in during combat.
Curse "negated".
In the same vein:
Deaf curse. Have everyone sink a token point into Linguistics to learn Drow Sign Language. Also have your character spend an additional point for "Read Lips".
Unfortunately, Drow Sign Language is a Secret Language, so I don't think you can learn it via Linguistics.
Lame Curse Reduces your base speed by 10. Some Mysteries, like Flame and Metal, have revelations that increase your base speed by 10. Curse Negated.and they specifically state "cannot be taken if you have the lame curse"
Actually, only Cinder Dance can't be taken if you have the Lame curse. Dance of the Blades can still be taken if you have the Lame curse (unless it's been errata'd recently).
So effects on Darkvision aren't the solution likely... but anything racial possibly for Gnomes?
Barring that, no items or other ideas?
The miracle spells is a cool solution I hadn't thought of -- and it comes with the caveat that I'd lose the dark vision... so it's not without trade... how much would it cost to get a miracle spell cast? and what level cleric would have to cast it? (there is a cleric in the party, so the cash cost is good to know for a sooner solution, but the cleric level for the spell is valuable to me to see how long I'd have to wait for our cleric to get the spell himself.)
This is already stuff to work with, and relatively quickly volunteered by the forum... I can't help but wonder if there are stranger or more elegant solutions.
..."Tut-Tut" @Arthanos for dismissing my question out of hand -- that's NOT what these forums are for, I wish you could see clear to be more helpful if you are going to post in a thread where people are seeking help.
No items, masks, or goggles would help you get past the curse's limitations, unfortunately.
The range of the curse is as I understand it unnavigable, a rigid barrier... but I don't know enough about pathfinder to be certain there aren't items that give preferred class bonuses, or similar mysterious roundabout solutions.
Nothing other than divine intervention or DM interpretation.
Additionally, if you're gonna suffer under a curse, may as well have others suffer with you.
As of yet though, I'm still not sure what'll get you up to seeing (or something else-ing) a bit better.
Hey guys!
My character is a Bard 4/Oracle 1 .... with the blindness Curse... My vision improves through character progression, but I have recently learned that a multiclass oracle does NOT improve against curses as rapidly as a normal oracle (progression is 1:1 for oracle levels but 2:1 for non oracle levels... at "5th level" my darkvision extends from 30' to 60' -- I can never see anything beyond my dark vision... and this is a considerable hinderance, though I am managing so far.
So my question is -- are there any items, feats, obscure rules that help mitigate an oracle curse or help to advance progression with it? I know that the curse cannot be lifted or dispelled without an act of a diety -- but I am not looking for a cheat out of getting around my curse, just wondering if there are things I can pay in gold or feat/trait/whatever that will help me get to the next tier in my clouded vision so I can get that 60' dark vision before I would otherwise... which at my current rate would be 9th level. (oracle1/bard8!)
Any help appreciated!!!
-V
Role with it, you know, like roleplaying...
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Role with it, you know, like roleplaying...
Thanks Stuart! ANOTHER post that tells me to do nothing? I appreciate your opinion, but as previously stated, people who don't want to help are encouraged not to respond in this thread. I am doing a great job and enjoy all the aspects of my character, ups and downs... I however do not see the point in enduring my curse any worse or longer than need be, hence my posting here.
I had originally expected that by level 5 in ANY class levels I would be at 60' darkvision by now... I am only trying to find ways to get closer to my original timetable --So if you cannot help, I don't need any advice to "grin and bear it"... I can do that just fine on my own and don't need a forum to tell me that. :D
Blackblood -- that sounds like a great potential augmentation to my dark vision -- but if it is only 20' -- that won't extend my range of effective perception. Any other ways to extend tremorsense beyond 30 feet -- that would help me at least in combat.
My Mystery is the Lore Mystery!
I have Trance and Sidestep Secret Revelations... just in case that might help.
I think a reasonable homebrew feat would allow 8 non-oracle levels to count as oracle for curse only. Or a trait that does the same for four levels.
I wish you were my GM, Andrew -- because that sounds reasonable to me, if even a bit generous. My GM is strictly no homebrew, and anything non-paizo is subject to approval.
the clouded vision curse works best for a melee oriented oracle with the battle or metal mystery who doesn't already have darkvision.
well, if you want to extend your perceptive range, there are 4 other senses besides sight a typical humanoid possesses.
Hearing, Smell, Touch, Taste. so your eyesight is limited, but you can still hear people sneaking before you see them, and you can still smell the sweat of the heavily armored fighter before you see them.
Thanks Lumiere -- I assure you I am using my other senses as best I can, but the question remains! :D
For a fairly cheesey way to beat the blindness would be to dip a level of summoner (synthesist) as when you wear your eidolon you use it's senses in place of yours.
Otherwise the ultimate equiptment guide has the Cat's Eye Crown which could possibly help
Pathfinder Society members have a crude Sign Language.
There is also the Flail Snail Sign Language.
I am also not finding any references to the Drow Sign Language being a "secret" language.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/linguistics
If you scroll down to Drow Sign Language, it's listed as a "secret" language.
Used By: Drow.
Like Druidic, drow sign language is a "secret" language.
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Pick up a Goz Mask. Combine with the Tremor Boots.
Use things like Darkness, Deeper Darkness, Fog Cloud, and Obscuring Mist to keep baddies just as Visually Impaired as you.